1): As long as this isn´t presented officially there is no beef. When asked about this report the administration can decline to comment and anyone wanting to believe can, when asked about what Iraq had to do with the war on terrorism: "there was that classified report that proved that Saddam and OBL was best buddies. Of course there is reasons why we aren´t told officially.Sometimes a government has to keep information from its citizents to protect them*". Same thing happened to the "Mobile WoMD Fabrication Units" some people STILL believe in. 1-0 to the administration. (*people in this very forum has used that argument before to justify missing pieces in the puzzle called Iraqi Freedom)
2): IF presented officially it has a good chance of being irrelevant still. Remember the speech from Powell in NY? How much proved to be right? The combination of a flakey intelligence agency, agents wanting to hear certain things and captives wanting to make their captures happy is not the best one.
The benefit of the doubt is NOT on the intelligence service side. Not after Powells visit to the UN.
Anyone remember what the new Bureau of Intelligence is called?
1): As long as this isn´t presented officially there is no beef. When asked about this report the administration can decline to comment and anyone wanting to believe can, when asked about what Iraq had to do with the war on terrorism: "there was that classified report that proved that Saddam and OBL was best buddies. Of course there is reasons why we aren´t told officially.Sometimes a government has to keep information from its citizents to protect them*". Same thing happened to the "Mobile WoMD Fabrication Units" some people STILL believe in. 1-0 to the administration. (*people in this very forum has used that argument before to justify missing pieces in the puzzle called Iraqi Freedom)
2): IF presented officially it has a good chance of being irrelevant still. Remember the speech from Powell in NY? How much proved to be right? The combination of a flakey intelligence agency, agents wanting to hear certain things and captives wanting to make their captures happy is not the best one.
The benefit of the doubt is NOT on the intelligence service side. Not after Powells visit to the UN.
Anyone remember what the new Bureau of Intelligence is called?
These people met, or they haven't. I don't think there is room here for "interpretations", as you suggest. For example, satelite pictures, or what not.
But as the official organ of the 21st century's lunatic fringe, the schizoid fundamentalist PNAC, what else would you expect!
I don't know much about the Weekly Standard. I came to know of it as it was mentioned on MSNBC during an interview with a former CIA director. He certainly thought it was very credible information. But since you are so eager to deride the Weekly Standard, I think I will be paying a little more attention to it from now on.
These people met, or they haven't. I don't think there is room here for "interpretations", as you suggest. For example, satelite pictures, or what not.
"They have satellite pictures of both mobile and non-mobile weapons factories, they have testimonies from Iraqis saying that that was in fact used as weapons factories. We even got the documents showing Saddam importing Uranium from Niger. This isn´t a question of "interpretations". We have the facts right in front of us!!!"
Yeah right...
Every single person involved had the means motive and opportunity of bending the truth so much that it become a lie. The interrogated, the interrogatees, those leaking the story and the weekly standard.
"They have satellite pictures of both mobile and non-mobile weapons factories, they have testimonies from Iraqis saying that that was in fact used as weapons factories. We even got the documents showing Saddam importing Uranium from Niger. This isn´t a question of "interpretations". We have the facts right in front of us!!!"
Yeah right...
Every single person involved had the means motive and opportunity of bending the truth so much that it become a lie. The interrogated, the interrogatees, those leaking the story and the weekly standard.
Anders,
Would you entertain the possibility that these Mobile Labs and all that goes with it, as well as Bio/Chem/Nuclear weapons material were moved to a third country? Or is that too outrageous a possibility? Would you also be understanding, given how overextended the US is, going after this party is somewhat inconvenient at the moment, particularly given the resistance going after Iraq has caused.
Would you entertain the possibility that these Mobile Labs and all that goes with it, as well as Bio/Chem/Nuclear weapons material were moved to a third country? Or is that too outrageous a possibility? Would you also be understanding, given how overextended the US is, going after this party is somewhat inconvenient at the moment, particularly given the resistance going after Iraq has caused.
This is exactly what I am talking about. The "mobile labs" was found rather quickly and, as the british intelligent service already knew, the labs inside them were used to make helium for military weather balloons. But if people want to believe they hear Powells speech and doesn´t hear when it is debunked later on, still believing in what fits in their construction of how the world looks like.
This is exactly what I am talking about. The "mobile labs" was found rather quickly and, as the british intelligent service already knew, the labs inside them were used to make helium for military weather balloons. But if people want to believe they hear Powells speech and doesn´t hear when it is debunked later on, still believing in what fits in their construction of how the world looks like.
I don't think it's that simple. Those vehicles could easily be duplicated, while the real ones moved to a safe location. I don't believe it's an open and shut case as you present it.
Still making excuses and trying to reconstruct the world so it fits into your world view.
No facts supports your convictions regarding the trains. And less than two days after Powell visit to UN journalists were in the stationary "WoMD labs" used by opposition groups in Iraq as head quarters with no traces of WoMDs.
Still making excuses and trying to reconstruct the world so it fits into your world view.
No facts supports your convictions regarding the trains. And less than two days after Powell visit to UN journalists were in the stationary "WoMD labs" used by opposition groups in Iraq as head quarters with no traces of WoMDs.
Anders,
I know how these things work.. Everyone in this dirty business has decoys. You may find it hard to believe, but I don't.
I know how these things work.. Everyone in this dirty business has decoys. You may find it hard to believe, but I don't.
So you start out this thread by "Proving" that there was a SH/OBL connection and then dismiss proves of the non existing of WoMD lab based on your beliefs?
Way to go.
One simple matter. The mobile labs were on train wagons. Where did they go?
So you start out this thread by "Proving" that there was a SH/OBL connection and then dismiss proves of the non existing of WoMD lab based on your beliefs?
Way to go.
One simple matter. The mobile labs were on train wagons. Where did they go?
The CIA sent a memo to some congressman. That memo was leaked and published in the Weekly standard. This memo is a short-point documentation, and reveals the meetings between Iraqi and al qaeda opertives among other things. That's good enough for me.
I don't follow your point regards the mobile labs on train wagon.
The CIA sent a memo to some congressman. That memo was leaked and published in the Weekly standard. This memo is a short-point documentation, and reveals the meetings between Iraqi and al qaeda opertives among other things. That's good enough for me.
Was Powell speech also good enough for you?
Quote:
Originally posted by majorspunk
I don't follow your point regards the mobile labs on train wagon.
If they were there and now is gone. Where are they now then?
If they were there and now is gone. Where are they now then?
Moved to Syria and Lebanon. And from there only god knows. Al Qaeda is involved here. And I do believe you'll see them using these WoMD in the near future. It's only a mater of time now.
Moved to Syria and Lebanon. And from there only god knows. Al Qaeda is involved here. And I do believe you'll see them using these WoMD in the near future. It's only a mater of time now.
Funny. That was also suggested by someone in the US "intelligence" community. They claimed having proofs that the wagons had been transported on the tracks leading to Syria.
Problem of course being that the tracks hadn´t been there for years and the person claiming it had been looking on old outdated maps.
Comments
Pundits overstate Iraq/Al Qaeda links
It seems that everyone is guilty until proven innocent
Originally posted by Scott
I have to wonder if his name is [majors][punk] or [major][spunk]? I hope it's the former.
It's a play on those two.
2): IF presented officially it has a good chance of being irrelevant still. Remember the speech from Powell in NY? How much proved to be right? The combination of a flakey intelligence agency, agents wanting to hear certain things and captives wanting to make their captures happy is not the best one.
The benefit of the doubt is NOT on the intelligence service side. Not after Powells visit to the UN.
Anyone remember what the new Bureau of Intelligence is called?
Originally posted by Anders
1): As long as this isn´t presented officially there is no beef. When asked about this report the administration can decline to comment and anyone wanting to believe can, when asked about what Iraq had to do with the war on terrorism: "there was that classified report that proved that Saddam and OBL was best buddies. Of course there is reasons why we aren´t told officially.Sometimes a government has to keep information from its citizents to protect them*". Same thing happened to the "Mobile WoMD Fabrication Units" some people STILL believe in. 1-0 to the administration. (*people in this very forum has used that argument before to justify missing pieces in the puzzle called Iraqi Freedom)
2): IF presented officially it has a good chance of being irrelevant still. Remember the speech from Powell in NY? How much proved to be right? The combination of a flakey intelligence agency, agents wanting to hear certain things and captives wanting to make their captures happy is not the best one.
The benefit of the doubt is NOT on the intelligence service side. Not after Powells visit to the UN.
Anyone remember what the new Bureau of Intelligence is called?
These people met, or they haven't. I don't think there is room here for "interpretations", as you suggest. For example, satelite pictures, or what not.
It makes Fox News drivel look liberal!
But as the official organ of the 21st century's lunatic fringe, the schizoid fundamentalist PNAC, what else would you expect!
Originally posted by sammi jo
The Weekly Standard!!!!
It makes Fox News drivel look liberal!
But as the official organ of the 21st century's lunatic fringe, the schizoid fundamentalist PNAC, what else would you expect!
I don't know much about the Weekly Standard. I came to know of it as it was mentioned on MSNBC during an interview with a former CIA director. He certainly thought it was very credible information. But since you are so eager to deride the Weekly Standard, I think I will be paying a little more attention to it from now on.
Originally posted by majorspunk
These people met, or they haven't. I don't think there is room here for "interpretations", as you suggest. For example, satelite pictures, or what not.
"They have satellite pictures of both mobile and non-mobile weapons factories, they have testimonies from Iraqis saying that that was in fact used as weapons factories. We even got the documents showing Saddam importing Uranium from Niger. This isn´t a question of "interpretations". We have the facts right in front of us!!!"
Yeah right...
Every single person involved had the means motive and opportunity of bending the truth so much that it become a lie. The interrogated, the interrogatees, those leaking the story and the weekly standard.
Originally posted by Anders
"They have satellite pictures of both mobile and non-mobile weapons factories, they have testimonies from Iraqis saying that that was in fact used as weapons factories. We even got the documents showing Saddam importing Uranium from Niger. This isn´t a question of "interpretations". We have the facts right in front of us!!!"
Yeah right...
Every single person involved had the means motive and opportunity of bending the truth so much that it become a lie. The interrogated, the interrogatees, those leaking the story and the weekly standard.
Anders,
Would you entertain the possibility that these Mobile Labs and all that goes with it, as well as Bio/Chem/Nuclear weapons material were moved to a third country? Or is that too outrageous a possibility? Would you also be understanding, given how overextended the US is, going after this party is somewhat inconvenient at the moment, particularly given the resistance going after Iraq has caused.
Originally posted by majorspunk
Anders,
Would you entertain the possibility that these Mobile Labs and all that goes with it, as well as Bio/Chem/Nuclear weapons material were moved to a third country? Or is that too outrageous a possibility? Would you also be understanding, given how overextended the US is, going after this party is somewhat inconvenient at the moment, particularly given the resistance going after Iraq has caused.
This is exactly what I am talking about. The "mobile labs" was found rather quickly and, as the british intelligent service already knew, the labs inside them were used to make helium for military weather balloons. But if people want to believe they hear Powells speech and doesn´t hear when it is debunked later on, still believing in what fits in their construction of how the world looks like.
Originally posted by Anders
This is exactly what I am talking about. The "mobile labs" was found rather quickly and, as the british intelligent service already knew, the labs inside them were used to make helium for military weather balloons. But if people want to believe they hear Powells speech and doesn´t hear when it is debunked later on, still believing in what fits in their construction of how the world looks like.
I don't think it's that simple. Those vehicles could easily be duplicated, while the real ones moved to a safe location. I don't believe it's an open and shut case as you present it.
No facts supports your convictions regarding the trains. And less than two days after Powell visit to UN journalists were in the stationary "WoMD labs" used by opposition groups in Iraq as head quarters with no traces of WoMDs.
Originally posted by Anders
Still making excuses and trying to reconstruct the world so it fits into your world view.
No facts supports your convictions regarding the trains. And less than two days after Powell visit to UN journalists were in the stationary "WoMD labs" used by opposition groups in Iraq as head quarters with no traces of WoMDs.
Anders,
I know how these things work.. Everyone in this dirty business has decoys. You may find it hard to believe, but I don't.
Originally posted by majorspunk
Anders,
I know how these things work.. Everyone in this dirty business has decoys. You may find it hard to believe, but I don't.
So you start out this thread by "Proving" that there was a SH/OBL connection and then dismiss proves of the non existing of WoMD lab based on your beliefs?
Way to go.
One simple matter. The mobile labs were on train wagons. Where did they go?
Originally posted by Anders
So you start out this thread by "Proving" that there was a SH/OBL connection and then dismiss proves of the non existing of WoMD lab based on your beliefs?
Way to go.
One simple matter. The mobile labs were on train wagons. Where did they go?
The CIA sent a memo to some congressman. That memo was leaked and published in the Weekly standard. This memo is a short-point documentation, and reveals the meetings between Iraqi and al qaeda opertives among other things. That's good enough for me.
I don't follow your point regards the mobile labs on train wagon.
Originally posted by majorspunk
The CIA sent a memo to some congressman. That memo was leaked and published in the Weekly standard. This memo is a short-point documentation, and reveals the meetings between Iraqi and al qaeda opertives among other things. That's good enough for me.
Was Powell speech also good enough for you?
Originally posted by majorspunk
I don't follow your point regards the mobile labs on train wagon.
If they were there and now is gone. Where are they now then?
Originally posted by Anders
If they were there and now is gone. Where are they now then?
Moved to Syria and Lebanon. And from there only god knows. Al Qaeda is involved here. And I do believe you'll see them using these WoMD in the near future. It's only a mater of time now.
Originally posted by majorspunk
Moved to Syria and Lebanon. And from there only god knows. Al Qaeda is involved here. And I do believe you'll see them using these WoMD in the near future. It's only a mater of time now.
Funny. That was also suggested by someone in the US "intelligence" community. They claimed having proofs that the wagons had been transported on the tracks leading to Syria.
Problem of course being that the tracks hadn´t been there for years and the person claiming it had been looking on old outdated maps.