Home and End keys letter sent to Apple

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
The behavior of the home and end keys simply don't work like they are supposed to.



Home key should position the cursor at the beginning of line, and the End key should position the cursor at the end of line.



Thankfully, the behavior is correct in Office, however this is a major annoyance for this switcher.



I'm not the only one:



Apple Support Discussions

http://discussions.info.apple.com/[email protected]



Missing Keystrokes in OS X

http://www.missingmanuals.com/pub/a/...okes_0103.html



IMHO, OS X lacks a keyboard remapper, which would make this a non-issue.



There's even an open-source effort to address this huge shortcoming:



DoubleCommand

http://doublecommand.sourceforge.net



Steve Job says everything starts with user experience. Having wacky keyboard problems is a user experience nightmare.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    The behavior of the home and end keys simply don't work like they are supposed to.



    Home key should position the cursor at the beginning of line, and the End key should position the cursor at the end of line.



    Thankfully, the behavior is correct in Office, however this is a major annoyance for this switcher.




    Ack! No! The home/end behavior of Windows is one thing I hate. It's the first thing I turn OFF from Office v.X after I install it. The home and end keys work exactly as they should for Macs. They've had the same behavior for many many years. I think you'll find that on your Mac you have equal if not greater functionality once you know how to use these shortcuts.



    Here's a list of most off the top of my head (using a PC at work now). My memory is a little sketchy, but I think these are correct:



    home - scroll to top of document

    end - scroll to end of document

    page up - scroll up one page

    page down - scroll down one page



    up arrow - move cursor up one line

    down arrow - move cursor down one line

    left arow - move cursor left one character

    right arrow - more cursor right one character



    option key: the option modifier on an arrow moves the cursor in blocks.

    option up arrow: move cursor up one paragraph

    option down arrow: move cursor down one paragraph

    option left arrow: move cursor left one word

    option right arrow: move cursor right one word



    apple/command key: the apple modifier on an arrow moves "the whole stretch"

    apple up arrow: move cursor to top of document

    apple down arrow: move cursor to bottom of document

    apple left arrow: move cursor to beginning (left) of line

    apple right arrow: move cursor to end (right) or line



    shift key: the shift modifier on an arrow modifies the selection. What's great about this is it can combine with the other modifiers. Here are just a few examples:

    shift right arrow: select one character to the right

    shift option right arrow: select one word to the right

    shift apple right arrow: select everything to the end (right) of the line.



    These shortcuts are the standard/default behavior. Almost all apps and text fields support them.



    Hope this helps.
  • Reply 2 of 23
    I have to agree with the Home/End issue. I realize that the Mac way has been around a long time, but this is a major, major annoyance for longtime Windows users. I know, because it drove me crazy when I switched two years ago. I have since learned the "Mac way" and I'm fine with it, but my Wife who switched more recently complains about this a lot, as do others who have switched.



    Going to the top and bottom of a document just isn't as common a practice as going to the beginning or end of a line. It makes sense to have HOME/END act like they do on Windows and other OS's. I'm aware DoubleCommand can fix this (does it work in Panther yet?) but would rather not have to run a kernel extension and risk stability problems (particularly with upgrades).



    The other thing that bothers me are the differences in Cocoa and Carbon apps in regards to many of these conventions. I use the EMACS conventions instead of HOME/END but they don't always work in Carbon apps. Apple needs to work on these sorts of consistency issues, I think.



    John
  • Reply 3 of 23
    gabidgabid Posts: 477member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brad

    Ack! No! The home/end behavior of Windows is one thing I hate. It's the first thing I turn OFF from Office v.X after I install it. The home and end keys work exactly as they should for Macs.



    So you can make the home/end keys work as they should (on a Mac ) in Office? Wow. I never noticed this option. This really makes my day though; I'm always pressing "Home" to go to the top of a document in Word and being quite annoyed that it doesn't work.



    Thank Brad! Guess that's why you have the nice shiney Mod badge.
  • Reply 4 of 23
    Hold on a minute, what the hell happens in Windows browsers when you hit Home? Maybe I'm just a brain-washed Apple zombie, and I haven't voluntarily used a Windows machine in years but I'm fairly certain they go to the start of the document. Or is it just me?



    edit: quote from the first posted link

    Quote:

    I still struggle though, with the inconsistency of home and end. Sometimes it seems I need to press Apple-Right Arrow for End and other times not. Same for Home. I wish I could just press one key to take me to the end or beginning of a line from anywhere.



    So basically what this guy wants is for Microsoft to stop being a bunch of pricks and for Microsoft Office to follow the conventions of the Mac platform. Key word: inconsistency.
  • Reply 5 of 23
    So because it's in Windows, it should be in the Mac OS? Think about that for a moment and be overwhelmed with all the crap that you're bringing in. Just relearn the damn keys. It's not that hard. [I'd see your point if there weren't ANY way at all to get to the beginning/end of the line, but there is and it makes more sense.]



    And since when does "home" translate to the beginning of a LINE? It seems that, if anything, the word "home" should take you to the beginning of the document and "end", since it's the opposite of the "home" function should take you to the end of the document.
  • Reply 6 of 23
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    You mean... there are... DIFFERENCES between Mac OS X and Windows?



    Quick, someone call the three local news shows and tell them the other two are running a story on it!



    Barto
  • Reply 7 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Barto

    You mean... there are... DIFFERENCES between Mac OS X and Windows?



    OMG OMG!!!



    Nah seriously, at Uni the other ... month, we were sitting in the Computer Science iMac labs, with Safari running, and my friend said to me, "Why won't Home and End work?".



    They couldn't get it past their thick skulls that there are differences between OS X and Windows.



    I told them that an easier key "combination" was: the down arrow and the up arrow. I thought they would have thought it was easier, but wouldn't admit it.



    Personally, Windows can shove it where the sun don't shine. (And no, the CS department don't have any Windows machines). m.
  • Reply 8 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by stupider...likeafox

    Hold on a minute, what the hell happens in Windows browsers when you hit Home? Maybe I'm just a brain-washed Apple zombie, and I haven't voluntarily used a Windows machine in years but I'm fairly certain they go to the start of the document.



    Ding ding ding ding ding!!



    On Windows, home goes to the top and end to the bottom. Tested on IE6 on Windows 2000.



    Indeed.
  • Reply 9 of 23
    Some of the replies here are ignorant at best. Did my original post mention Windows? My primary development environment is Linux.



    My post had nothing to do with web browsers, except with text input areas like this message is being typed into, and entering urls into the location bar.



    "Just relearn the damn keys", "Quick, someone call the three local news shows", "Ding ding ding ding ding!". These are not the intelligent responses I expect from the Apple community.



    Like I stated, I am not alone. Custom keyboard mapping should be something that each user can configure, for whatever they want. And it should be built into the OS, not a hack.
  • Reply 10 of 23
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    That's a great idea in theory, but in practice it just leads to a mess.



    What should be configurable, everything?



    Cmd-Q for New Document?



    Cmd-S for Delete?



    Seriously, here, should you be able to modify it per app such that it changes with every application? Home in Word goes to beginning of line, but in the browser it goes to the top, but in Excel it triggers a macro, but in...



    Bollocks. That's not a UI, that's just a mess. Consistency is key to usability... which was the point of bringing up the browser, showing that under Windows it isn't even consistent what those keys do. (Which is normal for that UI, in my experience.)



    And besides, I'd point you to 10.3's Keyboard and Mouse System Prefs. Click on the 'Keyboard Shortcuts' tab.



    You're welcome.



    If you want finer detail control, look at the keyboard mappings in the Advanced Help of Project Builder. It's all laid out for you, and it's even *gasp* Unixy. (Granted, I can't seem to find this immediately in Xcode, but then, I just started using it so...)



    And when you lead off your post with "The behavior of the home and end keys simply don't work like they are supposed to.", you have to expect that you're going to be told you're wrong. *On this platform*, they work *exactly* like they should. It's just not what you're used to, coming from *other platforms* where they do things differently. (And, I'd say, wrong from a consistency viewpoint.)
  • Reply 11 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    Some of the replies here are ignorant at best. Did my original post mention Windows? My primary development environment is Linux.



    My post had nothing to do with web browsers, except with text input areas like this message is being typed into, and entering urls into the location bar.



    "Just relearn the damn keys", "Quick, someone call the three local news shows", "Ding ding ding ding ding!". These are not the intelligent responses I expect from the Apple community.



    Like I stated, I am not alone. Custom keyboard mapping should be something that each user can configure, for whatever they want. And it should be built into the OS, not a hack.




    My "Just relearn the damn keys" comment was in the middle of an explanation about WHY it works the way it does and the reason it makes sense. If all you choose to read are the asides, I can't help you. :/



    That said - are you crazy? There's something to be said about having familiar keymappings and if everyone could change those mappings, it'd be a nightmare. A lot like Linux is.... No wonder you like it.
  • Reply 12 of 23
    gabidgabid Posts: 477member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gabid

    So you can make the home/end keys work as they should (on a Mac ) in Office? Wow. I never noticed this option. This really makes my day though; I'm always pressing "Home" to go to the top of a document in Word and being quite annoyed that it doesn't work.



    Thank Brad! Guess that's why you have the nice shiney Mod badge.




    Ok, I'm back home and at my Mac and still can't see the option to make Word use the home/end keys in the standard Mac way. What am I missing?
  • Reply 13 of 23
    Yeah, sorry about that, Gabid. My mistake. I haven't used Word for months (with many thanks to 10.3's TextEdit ) and, as I had mentioned before, my memory's a little flakey. You can't actually do that. The annoying-as-hell feature I was thinking of that can be disabled is the "When selecting, automatically select entire word" one.



    Sorry. \
  • Reply 14 of 23
    Actually! You CAN change the mappings in Word. I just did it because this had annoyed me for a while (and this coming from a recent switcher!), but it's a real pain in the ass to do so...



    Go to Tools menu --> Customize



    Click "Keyboard..." at the bottom.



    Here's where it gets hairy:



    Select "All Commands" from the left column. Now, look in the right column for commmands EndOfDocument, EndOfDocExtend, EndOfLine, EndOfLineExtend, StartOfDocument, StartOfDocExtend, StartOfLine, StartOfLineExtend. I might have missed some so please feel free to add to the list if you find more inconsistencies.



    All you need to do is delete the shortcuts you don't want, and assign ones you want. Pre-existing shortcuts will automatically be deleted if there is a conflict.



    BTW, by "extend" they mean when you hold shift to select text. So assign command-shift-left arrow for StartOfLineExtend, etc..
  • Reply 15 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    Did my original post mention Windows? My primary development environment is Linux.





    "a major annoyance for this switcher" (my emphasis), switcher *strongly* suggests Windows -> Mac.
  • Reply 16 of 23
    majormattmajormatt Posts: 1,077member
    I concur, the layout of the Mac keyboard is much better. The thing I hate about windows is...I have to use control-someotherkey to cut/copy/paste/print and so on. Why must I do a contortionist act on this windows keyboard at school?



    [/begin rant]It would be nice if Microsoft learned to keep things consistent, it wouldnt saved me hours, too. I made my Physics app available for windows and I had to change ALL the bevelbuttons to regular buttons because Microsoft for some insane reason decided to change how bevel buttons look like in WinXp. [/End Rant]
  • Reply 17 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    What should be configurable, everything?



    The author of DoubleCommand says "It started out as a quick way to turn the Enter key into a Command key..."



    So yes, let people do what they wish with their computer. That's why they are called personal computers. Not "do it our way or too bad" computers. That's how M$ is supposed to build systems, not Apple.
  • Reply 18 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FormatC2

    So yes, let people do what they wish with their computer.



    Any else here wondering why Linux has such a paltry share of the desktop?



    It's not for lack of software. What there isn't native, you can run through WINE. It certainly isn't for lack of hardware. It runs on everything from Playstations to iPods.



    The biggest stumbling block is its interface. Hell, even I am intimidated by some application interfaces and options on Linux. Too many interface options and configuration does not a good interface make. Ask any good UI designer that and you'll get the same answer. Too many options confuses Joe Sixpack. Too many options creates a support hell.



    Joe: I'm having trouble with <insert problem>.

    Support: Okay, first click the red close button for this window.

    Joe: There is no red button. I have orange, purple, and blue buttons.

    Support: Okay, click the left one.

    Joe: Left? these buttons are on the right side of the window near the bottom.

    Support: Okay, instead, press apple-w to close the window.

    Joe: That didn't close it. It made another new window instead!

    Support: <insert stream of obscenities>




    This may be an exaggeration, but it's a perfectly valid example that could happen. Never underestimate the stupidity of an end user.



    Of course, coming from Linux, you probably are not only used to a bajillion options, you've come to expect them. That isn't the same with the systems that 97% of the rest of the world uses.



    How many people use DoubleCommand? Not very many. Compare its 13,876 downloads to more useful titles like, say, GraphicConverter with 1,225,939 (from MU and VT). Am I comparing apples to oranges here? I don't think so. If software like this was necessary or even in moderate demand, the numbers would reflect that. Furthermore, software in general would reflect that.



    Why does Mozilla Firebird looks the way it does, with its simplified, partly iconified preferences? It has trimmed down many of Mozilla's bloated options to a set that most users will actually be able to skim through and understand. Does this make Firebird an inferior browser? No. Does this lack of options hamper the vast majority of users? No. In fact, based on my own limited experience in telling friends about Firebird who have tried Mozilla, Firebird's simplified interface is far superior.



    People, in general, want software that just works. They don't want software that can be or needs to be configured a hundred ways. Simplicity and consistency are key.



    And what about people like you or "power" users that want to configure a computer that only they can use and understand? Well, you've got DoubleCommand and uCommand. Demand, meet supply. High-end, very complex apps like Microsoft Word and Apple Final Cut Pro do offer options for advanced configuration.



    My point? There's no reason to complain. The system works for everyone. Joe Sixpack gets his easy, reliable, consistent interface. Power users have the option by third parties or on an application-specific basis to customize things. Most everyone is happy.
  • Reply 19 of 23
    stoostoo Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:

    There's something to be said about having familiar keymappings and if everyone could change those mappings, it'd be a nightmare



    You can change keyboard mappings fairly easily in Classic using ResEdit.
  • Reply 20 of 23
    ryaxnbryaxnb Posts: 583member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brad

    Why does Mozilla Firebird looks the way it does, with its simplified, partly iconified preferences? It has trimmed down many of Mozilla's bloated options to a set that most users will actually be able to skim through and understand. Does this make Firebird an inferior browser? No. Does this lack of options hamper the vast majority of users? No. In fact, based on my own limited experience in telling friends about Firebird who have tried Mozilla, Firebird's simplified interface is far superior.





    Yes, Firebird rocks, and don't forget the new nightlies with Pinstripe. Extensions, which give more features to people who want them, without so much bloat for users who don't. Extensions may be able to control Firebird settings as well; I'm not sure. Also impressive, IMHO, is Firebird's about:config "area." About:config let's you control tons of small details about Firebird, but they are invisible to the average user who just wants to turn off Java, clear the history, or change their home page.
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