btw, on your new white spot-less machine, how's the screen backlighting? im just wondering if all of the new batch of PBs have improved upon this minor issue.
Backlighting is good. I have a small (1cm x 1cm triangle) in the lower-right-hand corner that is a bit darker, but other than that it is even and bright. I just changed by DT background to something with snow on the bottom, so I can see it (barely). My normal BG is black there, so I don't see it at all.
I still wish I had a couple more ticks to go when I hit the lowest setting in a dark room.
Backlighting is good. I have a small (1cm x 1cm triangle) in the lower-right-hand corner that is a bit darker, but other than that it is even and bright. I just changed by DT background to something with snow on the bottom, so I can see it (barely). My normal BG is black there, so I don't see it at all.
I still wish I had a couple more ticks to go when I hit the lowest setting in a dark room.
that's reassuring, thanks. it's just the evenness of the backlighting that concerns me. i set the brightness well below the halfway mark, so im not worried about it ever not being bright enough.
i wonder if jfried was finally able to get his keyboard fixed? dude are you out there?
they offered me a replacement or repair choice again, and said if i opted for repair first i wouldnt be able to get a replacement later if the repair didnt solve anything. (does this make sense??)
No, it doesn't.
Why Apple insists on throwing arbitrary roadblocks in front of random people is beyond me. (Yes, I know they're not the only company that does this, nor the worst offenders. I don't care. They can do better.)
the newer PB definitely feels different. i spent enough time holding the older one to know. LOL. i actually preferred the look/feel of the older one, as the newer one seems clunkier somehow. let me what your side-by-side comparison unveils in the design differences.
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Thanks.
Personally, the keyboard of my replacement is not as solid feeling as the older one. It feels a bit more "hollow" underneath. Just not as solidly attached as the old, I guess. The lid feels tigher, less flexy also. The new machine weighed a bit more (like 75g), also.
Other than the keyboard, they feel pretty much the same.
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Thanks.
I was gonna do this at some point, thanks for the nudge...
I have *two* 15.2inch, 1.25GHz, BTO 5400RPM HD PowerBooks right in front of me. One with white spots and stuck pixels. The other its near-perfect replacement. I'll try and compare the older (faulty) model (V7341...) and the newer model (V7347...).
Aesthetics
1 The newer model has a *much* smoother hinge - it can be lifted with one hand without having to hold the bottom of the PB. The older model has a stiff hinge and has to be opened with two hands. This was immediately noticeable.
2 The newer model has a (barely perceptibly) softer clicking trackpad button - it makes less of a clicking sound and it requires less force to depress it. Its more like the soft-touch button of a mobile phone than a clicky-clicky mouse button.
3 The newer model has almost no keyboard flex. The only area that experiences flex in both models is that centred on the "J" and "K" keys. The keyboard of the newer model has probably less than a third of the flex of the keyboard of the older model. On my new machine, flex can only be detected by *staring* intently from *very close* and repeatedly pressing "K" for example. It is a non-issue.
4 The older model has a *much* more uneven gap, unfortunately. The newer model has a gap of about 1mm to the left of the latch. As you go further right from the latch it gets bigger - I reckon the gap is 3-4mm on the front right corner. I intend to do something about this at some point - I'll bend the 'Book or go to a AAR. But, thinking about it, I only need to get the RHS to lower by 1mm to get the gap even.
5 Same perfectly working latch on both models.
6 (Obviously) the older model had screen issues (2 centred, stuck pixels, 3 white spots-normal place, uneven backlighting). The newer model has *none* of these.
7 Chassis finish on both is equally superb. To nit-pick, however, there is less depression above the SD on the newer model than on the older one. This was only noticeable in either because I pressed down on every surface of the PB *looking* for flex.
erm...
...oh yeah
8 The battery on the older 'Book is looser. When I say looser, you can feel it giving if you press on it, but this give must be about 1/2mm (!). The battery on the new PB doesn't give at all.
Internals
1 The HD/GPU 'clicks' a lot less (if at all) in the newer model. (Hitachi HTS548080M9AT00 80GB HD in both.) There is still a squealing sound when I drag a selection in Word however. These noises are quiet though.
2 The SuperDrive (MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-816 in both) is louder on insertion on the newer model, then equally quiet in both while running (if you have the volume on during a film, you shouldn't notice it at all). The SD in the newer model gives out bleeps that the older one doesn't - only 3 or 4 though, just after insertion.
What I have to say, though, is I'm very doubtful as to whether the many improvements in my replacement PB were the result of improvements in the fabrication process, of whether it was potluck. The white spots problem may have been the only one that was fixed. Maybe the latch too. But with the hinge, keyboard flex, finishes, and definitely internals, you get what you're given - variations are within manufacturing tolerances.
i think there are some manufacturing differences in play here. i agree with S.O.S's observations except these difference which i've noticed:
- my new PB's keyboard has no flex at the J/K keys. (i have other problematic keys though-- flexing and sticking.)
- the latch on this new one never fails to latch. it was good but a teeny bit tricky on the older one.
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
- the hinge is looser on this one. when i tilt my powerbook a little as im using it on my lap, the lid falls back further from its own weight now.
- screen is great, maybe very slight blue hue compared to older one (which is still perceptible after calibration).
- something about this PB is noisier than the older one. i wouldn't be able to tell ya what is making that sound though. its a whir-click.
- this one runs hotter, but i attribute that to it being 1.25 GHz as opposed to the 1GHz.
- the gap is more even on the newer one. still slightly bigger on the right, but not too bad.
btw, S.O.S., how long are you keeping that old PB? they havent asked for it back yet?
also, does anyone have an innards picture of the keyboard and KB backlighting set-up? i want to see what it looks like and how they've done it. i dare not attempt to do it on mine... i might lose some parts...LOL.
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
Didn't think to check this. Can't tell by just picking them up. And I don't have scales.
Quote:
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
Mine is uneven too. Darker on the right and under the F keys, yeah? I have heard off/seen this so much that I though it was a given due to the fab process. My new PB is *slightly* better to the effect that variation is not really noticeable at full backlighting.
Quote:
btw, S.O.S., how long are you keeping that old PB? they havent asked for it back yet?
I wonder if all these changes are the norm across the board, of if this is just the usual 'no two notebooks are built the same' thing that you often find when comparing two of the same machines.
There were many times when I had two identical PowerBooks in front of me, and they both felt different. One's latch would be smoother than the rest, one's hinge would glide up better, one's seams would be better aligned, one's screen was clearly a different make (same model PowerBook), one's touch pad button was quite, while the other made a loud click sound, etc.
So I've often found that even if you order two of the same notebooks, or get a replacement and have the opportunity to compare the two (like I also have in the past), you'll find that they will be different from one another. But in this case it may be different as you both seem to find the same changes (for the most part) and it's good to know that it's mostly positive and for the better!
- my new PB's keyboard has no flex at the J/K keys. (i have other problematic keys though-- flexing and sticking.)
- the latch on this new one never fails to latch. it was good but a teeny bit tricky on the older one.
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
- the hinge is looser on this one. when i tilt my powerbook a little as im using it on my lap, the lid falls back further from its own weight now.
- screen is great, maybe very slight blue hue compared to older one (which is still perceptible after calibration).
- something about this PB is noisier than the older one. i wouldn't be able to tell ya what is making that sound though. its a whir-click.
- this one runs hotter, but i attribute that to it being 1.25 GHz as opposed to the 1GHz.
- the gap is more even on the newer one. still slightly bigger on the right, but not too bad.
Exactly like my pbook.
I've noticed that the fn key and one of the arrow keys are slightly unlevel, also just recently I noticed that hte arrows aren't lighting up with the backlight, and the backlight on a whole is kind of uneven.
oh well, THESE are the things that bane first rev buyers.
but my latch is perfect, no white spots, and no dead pixels, though I do get a bunch of stuck pixels, but they aren't an issue.
when i plug in my PB to charge the battery, the light turns red to show it's charging. then i put it to sleep, and it's still charging. but if i wake it up while it's charging, the light turns green and it stops charging until i put it back to sleep again (then it resumes charging). is this normal?
when i plug in my PB to charge the battery, the light turns red to show it's charging. then i put it to sleep, and it's still charging. but if i wake it up while it's charging, the light turns green and it stops charging *snip*
This bit's normal - it happens to me anyway. But the rest is different. In my case, after a few seconds after being woken up, if the battery still needs charging, the PowerBook realises this and the light duly turns red again.
So the gist of what I'm getting here is that people seem to think Apple has solved many of the problems over the last one or so. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated when mine arrives next week. If it's not damn close to perfect I am going to demand, yes DEMAND a new one. No repairs on a week old machine (or month for that matter) for me.
Back to topic, the things I'm hearing say to me that the white spot issue has been nearly solved in more recent ones, and that the machine feels more solid, etc.
This bit's normal - it happens to me anyway. But the rest is different. In my case, after a few seconds after being woken up, if the battery still needs charging, the PowerBook realises this and the light duly turns red again.
but that's the thing, the PB never realizes it still needs to be charged (and the battery can be very low) and the light doesnt turn red. only after i put it to sleep again does it resume charging. i discovered something though-- if i pull out the power cord when it's awake and not charging, then plug it back it, then it will start charging.
Every morning when I wake up, I hit the space bar to wake my PowerBook up and take a quick look at the display to make sure all didn't go to hell-on-a-white-spot the previous evening.
Nice desk paul, and nice lamp, I got the same one back home.
Yeah, I do the same when I wake up, after my shower I check out to pbook to make sure that no dead pixels or white spots are forming, though sometimes I get carried away and start actually USING it before I remember that I haven't eaten
I noticed your backlit keyboard doesn't seem to light up much over the arrow keys, Mine doesn't either, I can't really remember if it ever did, I can see that it's SUPPOSED to, because lights DO turn on behind the keys, but they are faint, maybe this is due to the keys peeling or sometihng...hmm.
any thoughts?
either way, I usually use my 'book late at night, and the backlit keyboard is really nice! though, the screen is usually bright enough to see the keys anyway , it;s still nice eye-candy, and it IS functional, to an extent
I think the backlight...WHOA right as I typed that it turned on...freaky
anyway, I think it would be better suited on a Black keyboard, because sometimes when the backlight only turns on about half way, the result is a grayish light over a gray keyboard, and it actually makes it DIFFICULT to see.
this is only in low light settings, when there is no light other than the display, the keyboard looks black except for the backlight....either way, I really hope Apple incorporates this feature onto their next pro keyboards. Because I have certainly had enough headaches with typing in the dark on my old Pro keyboard with my imac
Comments
Originally posted by mac's girl
btw, on your new white spot-less machine, how's the screen backlighting? im just wondering if all of the new batch of PBs have improved upon this minor issue.
Backlighting is good. I have a small (1cm x 1cm triangle) in the lower-right-hand corner that is a bit darker, but other than that it is even and bright. I just changed by DT background to something with snow on the bottom, so I can see it (barely). My normal BG is black there, so I don't see it at all.
I still wish I had a couple more ticks to go when I hit the lowest setting in a dark room.
Originally posted by machem
Backlighting is good. I have a small (1cm x 1cm triangle) in the lower-right-hand corner that is a bit darker, but other than that it is even and bright. I just changed by DT background to something with snow on the bottom, so I can see it (barely). My normal BG is black there, so I don't see it at all.
I still wish I had a couple more ticks to go when I hit the lowest setting in a dark room.
that's reassuring, thanks. it's just the evenness of the backlighting that concerns me. i set the brightness well below the halfway mark, so im not worried about it ever not being bright enough.
i wonder if jfried was finally able to get his keyboard fixed? dude are you out there?
Originally posted by mac's girl
they offered me a replacement or repair choice again, and said if i opted for repair first i wouldnt be able to get a replacement later if the repair didnt solve anything. (does this make sense??)
No, it doesn't.
Why Apple insists on throwing arbitrary roadblocks in front of random people is beyond me. (Yes, I know they're not the only company that does this, nor the worst offenders. I don't care. They can do better.)
Originally posted by mac's girl
the newer PB definitely feels different. i spent enough time holding the older one to know. LOL. i actually preferred the look/feel of the older one, as the newer one seems clunkier somehow. let me what your side-by-side comparison unveils in the design differences.
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Thanks.
Originally posted by Patchouli
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Thanks.
Personally, the keyboard of my replacement is not as solid feeling as the older one. It feels a bit more "hollow" underneath. Just not as solidly attached as the old, I guess. The lid feels tigher, less flexy also. The new machine weighed a bit more (like 75g), also.
Other than the keyboard, they feel pretty much the same.
Originally posted by Patchouli
Has anyone examined the two and detailed the differences (if any) between the older batch and the newer ones? I am very curious to know what they changed? How different does it look/feel, it what ways? Please share!
Thanks.
I was gonna do this at some point, thanks for the nudge...
I have *two* 15.2inch, 1.25GHz, BTO 5400RPM HD PowerBooks right in front of me. One with white spots and stuck pixels. The other its near-perfect replacement. I'll try and compare the older (faulty) model (V7341...) and the newer model (V7347...).
Aesthetics
1 The newer model has a *much* smoother hinge - it can be lifted with one hand without having to hold the bottom of the PB. The older model has a stiff hinge and has to be opened with two hands. This was immediately noticeable.
2 The newer model has a (barely perceptibly) softer clicking trackpad button - it makes less of a clicking sound and it requires less force to depress it. Its more like the soft-touch button of a mobile phone than a clicky-clicky mouse button.
3 The newer model has almost no keyboard flex. The only area that experiences flex in both models is that centred on the "J" and "K" keys. The keyboard of the newer model has probably less than a third of the flex of the keyboard of the older model. On my new machine, flex can only be detected by *staring* intently from *very close* and repeatedly pressing "K" for example. It is a non-issue.
4 The older model has a *much* more uneven gap, unfortunately. The newer model has a gap of about 1mm to the left of the latch. As you go further right from the latch it gets bigger - I reckon the gap is 3-4mm on the front right corner. I intend to do something about this at some point - I'll bend the 'Book or go to a AAR. But, thinking about it, I only need to get the RHS to lower by 1mm to get the gap even.
5 Same perfectly working latch on both models.
6 (Obviously) the older model had screen issues (2 centred, stuck pixels, 3 white spots-normal place, uneven backlighting). The newer model has *none* of these.
7 Chassis finish on both is equally superb. To nit-pick, however, there is less depression above the SD on the newer model than on the older one. This was only noticeable in either because I pressed down on every surface of the PB *looking* for flex.
erm...
...oh yeah
8 The battery on the older 'Book is looser. When I say looser, you can feel it giving if you press on it, but this give must be about 1/2mm (!). The battery on the new PB doesn't give at all.
Internals
1 The HD/GPU 'clicks' a lot less (if at all) in the newer model. (Hitachi HTS548080M9AT00 80GB HD in both.) There is still a squealing sound when I drag a selection in Word however. These noises are quiet though.
2 The SuperDrive (MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-816 in both) is louder on insertion on the newer model, then equally quiet in both while running (if you have the volume on during a film, you shouldn't notice it at all). The SD in the newer model gives out bleeps that the older one doesn't - only 3 or 4 though, just after insertion.
What I have to say, though, is I'm very doubtful as to whether the many improvements in my replacement PB were the result of improvements in the fabrication process, of whether it was potluck. The white spots problem may have been the only one that was fixed. Maybe the latch too. But with the hinge, keyboard flex, finishes, and definitely internals, you get what you're given - variations are within manufacturing tolerances.
If anyone has any comparison questions...
- my new PB's keyboard has no flex at the J/K keys. (i have other problematic keys though-- flexing and sticking.)
- the latch on this new one never fails to latch. it was good but a teeny bit tricky on the older one.
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
- the hinge is looser on this one. when i tilt my powerbook a little as im using it on my lap, the lid falls back further from its own weight now.
- screen is great, maybe very slight blue hue compared to older one (which is still perceptible after calibration).
- something about this PB is noisier than the older one. i wouldn't be able to tell ya what is making that sound though. its a whir-click.
- this one runs hotter, but i attribute that to it being 1.25 GHz as opposed to the 1GHz.
- the gap is more even on the newer one. still slightly bigger on the right, but not too bad.
btw, S.O.S., how long are you keeping that old PB? they havent asked for it back yet?
also, does anyone have an innards picture of the keyboard and KB backlighting set-up? i want to see what it looks like and how they've done it. i dare not attempt to do it on mine... i might lose some parts...LOL.
Originally posted by mac's girl
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
Didn't think to check this. Can't tell by just picking them up. And I don't have scales.
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
Mine is uneven too. Darker on the right and under the F keys, yeah? I have heard off/seen this so much that I though it was a given due to the fab process. My new PB is *slightly* better to the effect that variation is not really noticeable at full backlighting.
btw, S.O.S., how long are you keeping that old PB? they havent asked for it back yet?
Shhhhh. since 25/11
I wonder if all these changes are the norm across the board, of if this is just the usual 'no two notebooks are built the same' thing that you often find when comparing two of the same machines.
There were many times when I had two identical PowerBooks in front of me, and they both felt different. One's latch would be smoother than the rest, one's hinge would glide up better, one's seams would be better aligned, one's screen was clearly a different make (same model PowerBook), one's touch pad button was quite, while the other made a loud click sound, etc.
So I've often found that even if you order two of the same notebooks, or get a replacement and have the opportunity to compare the two (like I also have in the past), you'll find that they will be different from one another. But in this case it may be different as you both seem to find the same changes (for the most part) and it's good to know that it's mostly positive and for the better!
Socrates
Originally posted by girl's mac
- my new PB's keyboard has no flex at the J/K keys. (i have other problematic keys though-- flexing and sticking.)
- the latch on this new one never fails to latch. it was good but a teeny bit tricky on the older one.
- this new PB feels heavier, but it could be the difference from going to a 1Ghz/combo to a 1.25 SD.
- the keyboard backlighting is a bit uneven. i had it BTO on the previous one and it was a good installation i guess.
- the hinge is looser on this one. when i tilt my powerbook a little as im using it on my lap, the lid falls back further from its own weight now.
- screen is great, maybe very slight blue hue compared to older one (which is still perceptible after calibration).
- something about this PB is noisier than the older one. i wouldn't be able to tell ya what is making that sound though. its a whir-click.
- this one runs hotter, but i attribute that to it being 1.25 GHz as opposed to the 1GHz.
- the gap is more even on the newer one. still slightly bigger on the right, but not too bad.
Exactly like my pbook.
I've noticed that the fn key and one of the arrow keys are slightly unlevel, also just recently I noticed that hte arrows aren't lighting up with the backlight, and the backlight on a whole is kind of uneven.
oh well, THESE are the things that bane first rev buyers.
but my latch is perfect, no white spots, and no dead pixels, though I do get a bunch of stuck pixels, but they aren't an issue.
when i plug in my PB to charge the battery, the light turns red to show it's charging. then i put it to sleep, and it's still charging. but if i wake it up while it's charging, the light turns green and it stops charging until i put it back to sleep again (then it resumes charging). is this normal?
Originally posted by mac's girl
[B]a question--
when i plug in my PB to charge the battery, the light turns red to show it's charging. then i put it to sleep, and it's still charging. but if i wake it up while it's charging, the light turns green and it stops charging *snip*
This bit's normal - it happens to me anyway. But the rest is different. In my case, after a few seconds after being woken up, if the battery still needs charging, the PowerBook realises this and the light duly turns red again.
Back to topic, the things I'm hearing say to me that the white spot issue has been nearly solved in more recent ones, and that the machine feels more solid, etc.
Is this what I should be getting from this?
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
This bit's normal - it happens to me anyway. But the rest is different. In my case, after a few seconds after being woken up, if the battery still needs charging, the PowerBook realises this and the light duly turns red again.
but that's the thing, the PB never realizes it still needs to be charged (and the battery can be very low) and the light doesnt turn red. only after i put it to sleep again does it resume charging. i discovered something though-- if i pull out the power cord when it's awake and not charging, then plug it back it, then it will start charging.
Originally posted by mac's girl
if i pull out the power cord when it's awake and not charging, then plug it back it, then it will start charging.
Yup. I was about to say to try that. I think I have maybe had to do that once or twice. Can't remember whether it was my old or my new PB though.
Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
Yup. I was about to say to try that. I think I have maybe had to do that once or twice. Can't remember whether it was my old or my new PB though.
if this is normal, it is still pretty stupid. maybe the next panther update can fix it, since it might not be hardware related.
Every morning when I wake up, I hit the space bar to wake my PowerBook up and take a quick look at the display to make sure all didn't go to hell-on-a-white-spot the previous evening.
Yeah, I do the same when I wake up, after my shower I check out to pbook to make sure that no dead pixels or white spots are forming, though sometimes I get carried away and start actually USING it before I remember that I haven't eaten
I noticed your backlit keyboard doesn't seem to light up much over the arrow keys, Mine doesn't either, I can't really remember if it ever did, I can see that it's SUPPOSED to, because lights DO turn on behind the keys, but they are faint, maybe this is due to the keys peeling or sometihng...hmm.
any thoughts?
either way, I usually use my 'book late at night, and the backlit keyboard is really nice! though, the screen is usually bright enough to see the keys anyway , it;s still nice eye-candy, and it IS functional, to an extent
I think the backlight...WHOA right as I typed that it turned on...freaky
anyway, I think it would be better suited on a Black keyboard, because sometimes when the backlight only turns on about half way, the result is a grayish light over a gray keyboard, and it actually makes it DIFFICULT to see.
this is only in low light settings, when there is no light other than the display, the keyboard looks black except for the backlight....either way, I really hope Apple incorporates this feature onto their next pro keyboards. Because I have certainly had enough headaches with typing in the dark on my old Pro keyboard with my imac