I'd call the Ford GT straight "retro" and drop the futurism altogether, at least as far as styling goes. The tech side of it -- the whole mechanical package and frame extrusions, assembly etc etc -- is modern and up-to-date.
It's definitely edgier than the original. You really need to see them side-by-side to notice though. Still, Ford seems to have the method down better than GM. I like the new Mustang concept too, definitely more than that Camaro pictured above.
I think that the new Mustang is a much better example of "retro-futurism" than the GT. It takes the design of a few iconic Mustangs and seems to do a bit more to evolve them (while not changing the iconography of them)
Mebbe it's a trick of the racing stripes and vent cutouts (and head and tail-light finishes/surrounds) that biases my opinion more to the retro side, where the GT is concerned. I'm no photoshop whiz, but I wonder what it would look like if we painted it a solid contemporary color and smoothed out a few of the cut lines around the protruding side and roof vents.
It's possibly a lot more modern than I give it credit for ?
Matt I'd have to agree on the Camero picts. I'd be 1st in line to buy one if they looked like that. I had an orange and black 69 Camero in HS...i regret to this day selling it.
The Camero line will make a comeback some day. They really screwed that car from the 70's on IMO
I'd take my Toyota Corolla over a Chevy any day...
I don't care if my car was made by the neighbor's six month old monkey, as long as it's a good car. I don't really understand this brand loyalism that car manufacturers enjoy.
All the muscle cars started to go to hell in the late 60's early 70's, and by the 80's they were just poorly made pieces of scrap without the hulking cachet of real muscle cars, but plastic add ons, miserable interiors and decals! Offensive to say the least.
I wouldn't say that Ford or Chevy make junk today. It just depends on what you want. Chevy's pushrod 3800 just runs and runs and runs. You can abuse the crap out of it, miss oil changes, never tune it up, and it just starts and goes (very quietly) and with some of the best large car fuel efficiency you can get anywhere. Shame about some the cars they put it into though. Same thing with Chevy's latest pushrod V8. It's really an amazing engine -- it'll run forever in all sorts of conditions -- and the current iterations are relatively fuel efficient for engines of their specific output. Look at the Corvette -- it gets reasonable HWY fuel consumption, better than a lot of exotics with similar 400BHP output figures, and not nearly as tempermental either.
I think that both Ford and Chevy could do a lot better by importing their European mid to small models into America virtually unchanged rather than build and sell their mostly embarrassing small car efforts.
Can they get a decent stylist in the the US? Chrysler is slowly sorting itself out, Ford and GM seem to operate without stylists. Not even bad stylists could make some of the cars they've sold in the last 20 years, no, it seems that they dislike their designers so much that nothing from the show car circuit or the conceptual pages ever survives the translation to a saleable product.
Being a fan of automotive design, I've noted a funny trend. Japan Inc will often show radically hideous design concepts, but have a finished mature product when the saleable machine emerges. Ford/GM will, OTOH, often show promising concepts, only to have bland, homely looking machines appear as the final "production" version.
If, like Chrysler, Ford has to make a few "concepts" into production in order to break free of their current design to build orthodoxy, then even if they're retro-derivative, things like the GT and "new" Mustang are exactly what they need to build.
I'll stick with my VW and in the future when I get outta school Audi S4 thank you very much...
And yes- my family owns a Chevy Z71 pickup.
I perfer the german build quality...
NAIAS is coming up this week! WAAAAAHOOOOO!
Anyone else going to be there? Look for me in the VW and Audi sections- heavily browsing the S4 and Tourag...maybe the Golf V and new GTI too- then I'll be very happy!
I don't want to sway the topic too long, but I agree with the pro-Audi sentiment wholeheartedly. They are INCREDIBLE machines -- can still recall sitting in an S8 at the auto show two years ago. I'm anxious to see if they re-introduce the S8 soon in the new A8L shell. What a car!! Massive interior, silky transmission, sublime engine (albeit under an exclusively dealer-servicable locked cover).
But I wouldn't knock Chevy --- Chevy TRUCKS, that is. I drive a '98 Tahoe (indigo blue -- love it!), and I still get kicks out of passing other little hotrods every now and then. And FYI, I mainly use it for highway driving, so gas mileage is not so bad (18-20 mpg). To assuage local environmentalists' fears, I drive it not for status but for room -- not many vehicles boast a Chevy truck's combined legroom and headroom.
Oh, and the Malibu Maxx does indeed look good!! The acquisition of Saab is paying off.
But I wouldn't knock Chevy --- Chevy TRUCKS, that is. I drive a '98 Tahoe (indigo blue -- love it!), and I still get kicks out of passing other little hotrods every now and then. And FYI, I mainly use it for highway driving, so gas mileage is not so bad (18-20 mpg). To assuage local environmentalists' fears, I drive it not for status but for room -- not many vehicles boast a Chevy truck's combined legroom and headroom.
Definitely. Our '98 GMC Suburban is pretty for what it is and still fun to drive despite being built like a tank. I have to say I'm not keen on the >1999 model year aesthetics though. The Fords look better, though I wouldn't be caught dead with a Triton V10 instead of a Vortec V8.
Quote:
Oh, and the Malibu Maxx does indeed look good!! The acquisition of Saab is paying off.
Doesn't it? Too bad everybody else is talking about the Corvette and SSR, and Toyotas and Hondas. For what it is, the Malibu looks great.
It's good to see some sensible car nuts about. Speaking of Saab, and Volvo, and then Subaru and Mazda (in part for these latter two), we often forget the deep involvement of Ford and GM in other much praised brands, particularly Ford's considerable corporate umbrella: Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover, Volvo, and Mazda. Plenty of good stuff there.
GM too, but to a lesser degree, with Vauxhall/Opel, and Saab. There's good stuff coming from there, and GM especially might reconsider it's domestic styling in favor of much of the work from Europe -- when it comes to small and mid size cars. Mebbe use Holden to help them figure out affordable muscle car mechanicals (though I find their styling as bland as typical GM)
I dunno, there seems to be a little more Opel in the new Malibu, but still behind what the Euros are up to style-wise.
I wonder if the Big three have just gotten used to treating North American buyers with a certain aesthetic disdain. As if they don't really believe that we value good design, and are content with plastic cladding and funny fascias -- certain arseholes at Pontaic spring immediately to mind.
hehehe, it IS a chevy. But don't forget Nissan! And I guess those that want a reason... 9 years Ward Motors best pick engine. Nissan Z, and the newly redesigned Nissan Maxima, which features chairs that slide and face you when you open the door, automatic window shades, climate control for both front and back passenger, saving your positions so that your spouse can drive the car (when you get back, the chairs, mirrors and steering wheels move back into place), sunroofs for both back and front, and the Nissan Z engine.
Almost every nissan car gets top notch reports from Consumer Reports, and most also get picked for best used car picks.
OoOoO new dash and heated seats? and steering wheel?
Comfortably seats 4
Looks cool doesn't it?
Sunroofs for everyone!
We own a 2003 Nissan Altima and anyone who rides in it/sees it has nothing but the most top-notch compliments for it. Nissans cars in the past two years have been utterly amazing.
We own a 2003 Nissan Altima and anyone who rides in it/sees it has nothing but the most top-notch compliments for it. Nissans cars in the past two years have been utterly amazing.
That's good to hear. I might be getting one of my dad's current cars, one being a 2003 Altima.
Can they get a decent stylist in the the US? Chrysler is slowly sorting itself out, Ford and GM seem to operate without stylists. Not even bad stylists could make some of the cars they've sold in the last 20 years, no, it seems that they dislike their designers so much that nothing from the show car circuit or the conceptual pages ever survives the translation to a saleable product.
What about J Mays? Although Ford's product development cycle has been so screwed up he hasn't had much of an impact yet beyond the new Thunderbird.
The Chevy SSR won't have much appeal beyond white guys in their 50s.
I think that both Ford and Chevy could do a lot better by importing their European mid to small models into America virtually unchanged rather than build and sell their mostly embarrassing small car efforts.
It seems they are going in that direction as the Ford Focus is a German car (wherever it is built), the same is true for the Chevrolet Malibu, which is a slightly modified Opel Vectra, also German. But then those cars are not examples of fine styling.
In some parts of the world, GM sells Daewoos and Holdens (themselves anlarged Opels) using the Chevrolet brand.
Perhaps that is the future of the two big US car makers.
In Mexico, GM sells the ?chevyized? Opel Corsa and Astra, and Ford sells German-designed Fiestas and Mondeos; while Nissan sells the Almera (designed specifically for the EU market) and the Renault Clio Classic under the assumed name Nissan Platina.
I didn't find any of these above-mentioned Chevrolets interesting, I hope they build them better than they used to in the seventies.
Don't be a fool. If you knew anything about cars you wouldn't make a comment like that. Honda makes a nice 4 cylinder. GM makes the best 6 cylinders (3800, 3500) on the planet. Bulletproof reliability, torquey, and not tuned for silly high rpm stuff most Americans never do. They also run on 87 octane fuel.
As for the SSR, I think it looks kind of silly, but at least it's something new. I'm not really tickled with the direction American manufacturers are taking by adding all sorts of useless features onto already existing models (GM Envoy) and raising the prices. I do like the direction taken by bringing Holdens here, though. I really wouldn't mind having a Commodore.
Don't be a fool. If you knew anything about cars you wouldn't make a comment like that. Honda makes a nice 4 cylinder. GM makes the best 6 cylinders (3800, 3500) on the planet.
I doubt they do. Germans companies like BMW, and Porsche are on the top.
You've never driven an S2000 have you? What an amazing machine. Granted, it won't keep up with a vette, speed isn't what it's all about. No question that Chevys suck royally compared to Hondas/Toyotas.
Have you? It's not that great. Doesn't bite as well as I'd like into a hard corner, and doesn't have the torque to pull it off anyway. Not bad for class racing, but there are better cars in the price range.
The Vette doesn't cost too much more, and the experience is much more exhilirating. Much more. Plus, the higher end vettes are pretty nimble too.
Even so, a twin-turbo Mazda RX-7 is more nimble than the S2000, has more grip than the Corvette (and only a little bit less acceleration), and more predictable handling than almost anything. In fact, it did pretty well for itself by humiliating Honda's NSX in most races they were in together. Honda makes a crappy sports car, in my opinion. The engines are fine, but there's something lacking in the rest of it. The only true Japanese sports car manufacturer is Mazda. . . It's a distinct feel: smooth as silk engine feel and extremely linear handling. A lot of other cars (corvettes, supras, most german cars) have a more non-linear feel, where it can be harder to detect subtleties (drift) in extreme cornering, particularly for an amateur driver. (me)
ANYWAY, I'm going to go ahead and modify my RX-7 starting in afew months for track use. No plans to rice it out, but it would be cool to have it GT-spec with the flame-spitting side-pipes and black mesh racing wheels.
I doubt they do. Germans companies like BMW, and Porsche are on the top.
Dammit, read before being silly.
Reliability. BMW's, and Porsches. . . . NOT RELIABLE! There are way too many people I know with overheating-prone German cars. But yes, if they're not overheating, they are good. Though they do require expensive fuel and get crappy mileage.
Comments
Originally posted by Matsu
I'd call the Ford GT straight "retro" and drop the futurism altogether, at least as far as styling goes. The tech side of it -- the whole mechanical package and frame extrusions, assembly etc etc -- is modern and up-to-date.
It's definitely edgier than the original. You really need to see them side-by-side to notice though. Still, Ford seems to have the method down better than GM. I like the new Mustang concept too, definitely more than that Camaro pictured above.
Mebbe it's a trick of the racing stripes and vent cutouts (and head and tail-light finishes/surrounds) that biases my opinion more to the retro side, where the GT is concerned. I'm no photoshop whiz, but I wonder what it would look like if we painted it a solid contemporary color and smoothed out a few of the cut lines around the protruding side and roof vents.
It's possibly a lot more modern than I give it credit for ?
The Camero line will make a comeback some day. They really screwed that car from the 70's on IMO
Originally posted by EmAn
I'd take my Toyota Corolla over a Chevy any day...
I don't care if my car was made by the neighbor's six month old monkey, as long as it's a good car. I don't really understand this brand loyalism that car manufacturers enjoy.
I wouldn't say that Ford or Chevy make junk today. It just depends on what you want. Chevy's pushrod 3800 just runs and runs and runs. You can abuse the crap out of it, miss oil changes, never tune it up, and it just starts and goes (very quietly) and with some of the best large car fuel efficiency you can get anywhere. Shame about some the cars they put it into though. Same thing with Chevy's latest pushrod V8. It's really an amazing engine -- it'll run forever in all sorts of conditions -- and the current iterations are relatively fuel efficient for engines of their specific output. Look at the Corvette -- it gets reasonable HWY fuel consumption, better than a lot of exotics with similar 400BHP output figures, and not nearly as tempermental either.
I think that both Ford and Chevy could do a lot better by importing their European mid to small models into America virtually unchanged rather than build and sell their mostly embarrassing small car efforts.
Can they get a decent stylist in the the US? Chrysler is slowly sorting itself out, Ford and GM seem to operate without stylists. Not even bad stylists could make some of the cars they've sold in the last 20 years, no, it seems that they dislike their designers so much that nothing from the show car circuit or the conceptual pages ever survives the translation to a saleable product.
Being a fan of automotive design, I've noted a funny trend. Japan Inc will often show radically hideous design concepts, but have a finished mature product when the saleable machine emerges. Ford/GM will, OTOH, often show promising concepts, only to have bland, homely looking machines appear as the final "production" version.
If, like Chrysler, Ford has to make a few "concepts" into production in order to break free of their current design to build orthodoxy, then even if they're retro-derivative, things like the GT and "new" Mustang are exactly what they need to build.
And yes- my family owns a Chevy Z71 pickup.
I perfer the german build quality...
NAIAS is coming up this week! WAAAAAHOOOOO!
Anyone else going to be there? Look for me in the VW and Audi sections- heavily browsing the S4 and Tourag...maybe the Golf V and new GTI too- then I'll be very happy!
But I wouldn't knock Chevy --- Chevy TRUCKS, that is. I drive a '98 Tahoe (indigo blue -- love it!), and I still get kicks out of passing other little hotrods every now and then. And FYI, I mainly use it for highway driving, so gas mileage is not so bad (18-20 mpg). To assuage local environmentalists' fears, I drive it not for status but for room -- not many vehicles boast a Chevy truck's combined legroom and headroom.
Oh, and the Malibu Maxx does indeed look good!! The acquisition of Saab is paying off.
P.S. I'm 6'6".
Originally posted by fred_lj
But I wouldn't knock Chevy --- Chevy TRUCKS, that is. I drive a '98 Tahoe (indigo blue -- love it!), and I still get kicks out of passing other little hotrods every now and then. And FYI, I mainly use it for highway driving, so gas mileage is not so bad (18-20 mpg). To assuage local environmentalists' fears, I drive it not for status but for room -- not many vehicles boast a Chevy truck's combined legroom and headroom.
Definitely. Our '98 GMC Suburban is pretty for what it is and still fun to drive despite being built like a tank. I have to say I'm not keen on the >1999 model year aesthetics though. The Fords look better, though I wouldn't be caught dead with a Triton V10 instead of a Vortec V8.
Oh, and the Malibu Maxx does indeed look good!! The acquisition of Saab is paying off.
Doesn't it? Too bad everybody else is talking about the Corvette and SSR, and Toyotas and Hondas.
GM too, but to a lesser degree, with Vauxhall/Opel, and Saab. There's good stuff coming from there, and GM especially might reconsider it's domestic styling in favor of much of the work from Europe -- when it comes to small and mid size cars. Mebbe use Holden to help them figure out affordable muscle car mechanicals (though I find their styling as bland as typical GM)
I dunno, there seems to be a little more Opel in the new Malibu, but still behind what the Euros are up to style-wise.
I wonder if the Big three have just gotten used to treating North American buyers with a certain aesthetic disdain. As if they don't really believe that we value good design, and are content with plastic cladding and funny fascias -- certain arseholes at Pontaic spring immediately to mind.
Originally posted by Ichiban_jay
hehehe, it IS a chevy. But don't forget Nissan!
http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/CurrentVehicleLineup
Almost every nissan car gets top notch reports from Consumer Reports, and most also get picked for best used car picks.
OoOoO new dash and heated seats? and steering wheel?
Comfortably seats 4
Looks cool doesn't it?
Sunroofs for everyone!
We own a 2003 Nissan Altima and anyone who rides in it/sees it has nothing but the most top-notch compliments for it. Nissans cars in the past two years have been utterly amazing.
Originally posted by Jim Paradise
We own a 2003 Nissan Altima and anyone who rides in it/sees it has nothing but the most top-notch compliments for it. Nissans cars in the past two years have been utterly amazing.
That's good to hear. I might be getting one of my dad's current cars, one being a 2003 Altima.
Originally posted by Matsu
Can they get a decent stylist in the the US? Chrysler is slowly sorting itself out, Ford and GM seem to operate without stylists. Not even bad stylists could make some of the cars they've sold in the last 20 years, no, it seems that they dislike their designers so much that nothing from the show car circuit or the conceptual pages ever survives the translation to a saleable product.
What about J Mays? Although Ford's product development cycle has been so screwed up he hasn't had much of an impact yet beyond the new Thunderbird.
The Chevy SSR won't have much appeal beyond white guys in their 50s.
Originally posted by Matsu
I think that both Ford and Chevy could do a lot better by importing their European mid to small models into America virtually unchanged rather than build and sell their mostly embarrassing small car efforts.
It seems they are going in that direction as the Ford Focus is a German car (wherever it is built), the same is true for the Chevrolet Malibu, which is a slightly modified Opel Vectra, also German. But then those cars are not examples of fine styling.
In some parts of the world, GM sells Daewoos and Holdens (themselves anlarged Opels) using the Chevrolet brand.
Perhaps that is the future of the two big US car makers.
In Mexico, GM sells the ?chevyized? Opel Corsa and Astra, and Ford sells German-designed Fiestas and Mondeos; while Nissan sells the Almera (designed specifically for the EU market) and the Renault Clio Classic under the assumed name Nissan Platina.
I didn't find any of these above-mentioned Chevrolets interesting, I hope they build them better than they used to in the seventies.
Originally posted by Cake
Chevy products are inferior to Honda and Toyota.
Don't be a fool. If you knew anything about cars you wouldn't make a comment like that. Honda makes a nice 4 cylinder. GM makes the best 6 cylinders (3800, 3500) on the planet. Bulletproof reliability, torquey, and not tuned for silly high rpm stuff most Americans never do. They also run on 87 octane fuel.
As for the SSR, I think it looks kind of silly, but at least it's something new. I'm not really tickled with the direction American manufacturers are taking by adding all sorts of useless features onto already existing models (GM Envoy) and raising the prices. I do like the direction taken by bringing Holdens here, though. I really wouldn't mind having a Commodore.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Don't be a fool. If you knew anything about cars you wouldn't make a comment like that. Honda makes a nice 4 cylinder. GM makes the best 6 cylinders (3800, 3500) on the planet.
I doubt they do. Germans companies like BMW, and Porsche are on the top.
Originally posted by DMBand0026
You've never driven an S2000 have you? What an amazing machine. Granted, it won't keep up with a vette, speed isn't what it's all about. No question that Chevys suck royally compared to Hondas/Toyotas.
Have you? It's not that great. Doesn't bite as well as I'd like into a hard corner, and doesn't have the torque to pull it off anyway. Not bad for class racing, but there are better cars in the price range.
The Vette doesn't cost too much more, and the experience is much more exhilirating. Much more. Plus, the higher end vettes are pretty nimble too.
Even so, a twin-turbo Mazda RX-7 is more nimble than the S2000, has more grip than the Corvette (and only a little bit less acceleration), and more predictable handling than almost anything. In fact, it did pretty well for itself by humiliating Honda's NSX in most races they were in together. Honda makes a crappy sports car, in my opinion. The engines are fine, but there's something lacking in the rest of it. The only true Japanese sports car manufacturer is Mazda. . . It's a distinct feel: smooth as silk engine feel and extremely linear handling. A lot of other cars (corvettes, supras, most german cars) have a more non-linear feel, where it can be harder to detect subtleties (drift) in extreme cornering, particularly for an amateur driver. (me)
ANYWAY, I'm going to go ahead and modify my RX-7 starting in afew months for track use. No plans to rice it out, but it would be cool to have it GT-spec with the flame-spitting side-pipes and black mesh racing wheels.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I doubt they do. Germans companies like BMW, and Porsche are on the top.
Dammit, read before being silly.
Reliability. BMW's, and Porsches. . . . NOT RELIABLE! There are way too many people I know with overheating-prone German cars. But yes, if they're not overheating, they are good. Though they do require expensive fuel and get crappy mileage.