Okay, cool, I didn't even think about adding icons to the dock!
you even can drag any icon (file, app, folder) to the menubar on top. try it! its amazing.
i put eg fontapp, printertools etc on top. one click away to launch.
the good news about OS X is: you can treat it in some kind of oldfashioned manners - the classic way. OR: you can treat it as a powerfull, flexible OS with all the gadgets.
Frankly, I don't know if I can freely delete the media directories without screwing up programs like iTunes.
yes, you can delete them until you've launched itunes, iphoto and the ones the very first time. After launching the first time, the iapps have created files inside these folders. these database-like files shouldn't been touched, moved or altered.
Quote:
Apple should just give the user an empty ~ and have a choice in the options whether to show the full directory tree or only the user part.
NO!!! Apple just should put these "media iapp database folder stuff" into the library, where they finaly belong. Period. Under no circumstannces they should be visible by default. It simply makes no sence and creates bad user experiences.
I'm trying to teach my mom to use her iBook. She is not very familiar with computers. Does web browsing, pays bills, uses web mail.
Recent things we've looked at:
- the Dock (need to close applications, not just windows)
- copy-pasting text
- Mozilla Firebird as an upgrade from the discontinued IE
Next things to tackle:
- Mail.app
- basics of the directory structure and Finder (she is very confused whenever she needs to open something through a dialog even if the file is on her desktop)
I'm also learning OS X as we go, since I don't have an own Mac.
Personally, I appreciate the Unix way and the home directories, but I don't appreciate the way OS X has the "media directories" - even if I use media type as a primary sorting factor, I don't want to have it dictated to me. Frankly, I don't know if I can freely delete the media directories without screwing up programs like iTunes.
Apple should just give the user an empty ~ and have a choice in the options whether to show the full directory tree or only the user part.
you can delete your folders for media, as long as you tell iTunes which folder you would like to use for music. You can move all the music and put it wherever you want but you need to tell iTunes in it's preference window, i don;t use the my pictures folder, i find it tooo windows like, i like putting my stuff where i want it. What really annoys me about OS X is all the applications that put their preference files in my documents folder, i don't want them there, can't they leave them in my library, why do i have to have "<App> User Data" - does anyone know what happens if you moved it to your library. Actually that's something i love, the library, it's a brilliant way to organise your preferences etc. and it makes it easier to tinker with just your area, much better than OS 9
I'm trying to teach my mom to use her iBook. She is not very familiar with computers. Does web browsing, pays bills, uses web mail.
...
- basics of the directory structure and Finder (she is very confused whenever she needs to open something through a dialog even if the file is on her desktop)
You can drag'n'drop files into open dialogs. Combined with F11 to show desktop with exposé this should make things easy for her in that common case at least.
Started with the Atari OS in 1985. Found it relatively simple and intuitive. Began with Mac around 2 years later - OS 8.6. Updates to OS 9.X no problem. Felt that both Atari and Mac OSs were within my grasp.
Used Wintel at work. Administrator made updates, sorted problems. Never understood what went on under the hood - but daily use no problem.
Have OSX on an eMac but stay with 9.2.2. Why? For me OSX is a quantum leap from OS9XX. Files with funny names, to me as strange as Windows
I am a skeptic. When I review my 18 years of experience, I conclude that all current personal computers fail to provide a pleasurable, easy, user experience. It is utterly ridiculous that a user must learn so much before she/he can begin.
Consider the auto. Maybe it took 30 to 50 years but now anybody can jump into one and drive away without having to wonder where to find the controls or how to use them.
IMHO our personal computers today have hardly progressed beyond the early days of the auto when a man had to walk in front with a red flag. But now we are told that technology advances much more quickly, so why not the PC experience? Answer - PC and software designers cannot see the wood for the trees.
Very many of us want only to type messages or letters, manipulate a few numbers, display a picture or two and surf the Net. In many cases a sharp black/white display would suffice (B/W on a color screen is poor compared to a dedicated B/W scerren - I speak from exoerience with a 19 inch B/W Atari system).
I am no longer to be counted among the young but my mind is as active as my young friends - of whom I have many. Where they score is being in daily contact with many others of like mind with whom they can discuss problems. Older people tend to have a more limited range of contacts. Their eyesight diminishes. Thankfully we have forums like this one to air our views.
Populations in the developed countries are ageing. They constitute a growing market. Who will address it? IMHO none of the current major PC suppliers fit the bill.
i learned, that windows users get familiar with X pretty much faster than classic mac users. that's paradox isn't it?
I love the way OS 9 worked but X looks amazing. The main reason windows users get used to mac faster is because XP is such a rip off mac. But also, OS X is dramatically different from OS 9. UNIX changes the way it works - but i am sure apple could make it less 'icky' and not put in home folders and picture folders (unless of course you have areas turned on in which case i agree with the format for home folders) It takes a long time to scroll through windows to get to your home directory when using classic because of the absurd file system. Make macs user-centric don't just say you are. Apple seem to be making macs to easy to use, but in the process they hinder expert users.
I just liked having the documents folder on the desktop and not worry about it, obv. an alias will do but that's not the same, also i liked the pop-up window thing in OS 9, is a come-back likely?
with new users (switchers, etc) I also usually add an alias of these two on the desktop.
Good idea about removing the HD icons.
Why is there no tutorial when you turn on a brand new mac or install a new copy of the OS???? Just the basics!!!!
Everyone I see is AFRAID of selecting "Help". They all think it will cause more problems to open it and see what it says. Also, I guess some pride involved.
Because people dont know how to get to their Applications folder, most of the time they have NO CLUE what apps there are installed, except what comes as default on the dock!!!!
I love the way OS 9 worked but X looks amazing. ...
the past 12 years i asked myself (well, from time to time;-), why i prefer macos (classic) over windows. and then i stomped through that amazing ars article "spatial finder thing" (hanibal?) that explained it for me. the mac was strictly spatial, thats it.
macos X is NOT strictly spatial. its behavior is sometimes spatial and sometimes path-oriented. and that kind of inconsistency is confusing for most mac centered users. windows users have particulary NO problems with X. they switch smoothly from one os to the other.
perhaps it is because they are forced to use "their windows" from the beginning in a certain way ("dont touch this file", "dont save your files here or there", "first do this and than do that to achieve this or that.", "ah, did i mentioned: to go there is a no-no" etc pp.)
now osX is my os of choice, because of its freedom of choices. now i don`t like os9 anymore, it feels somewhat clumsy.
This seems to be a good resource, especially for someone like me who doesn't yet have a Mac. However, this seems to be for OS X Jaguar; how different are the commands being discussed at this site between Jaguar and Panther?
It does indeed look like a good resource. Too bad my grandfather doesn't understand that much English. I wonder if I could translate all that stuff & in the process adapt it for Panther...
I personally am new to Mac OS, and I don't know what you guys are talking about. I put all programs in the Applications folder (what I equate to the Program Files folder in Windows) and all documents in the Documents folder under Users>Eric (my name)>Documents. My desktop is "cluttered" with shortcuts (aliases) to all the programs I use regularly.
Am I doing anything wrong?
Like others have said: no, you're not technically doing anything wrong (since, really, we can use our computers however we like), but man, cluttered desktops drive me nuts.
My first Mac was an SE when I was about 4. I've never had more than about 10 items on my desktop. And now, in OS X, the only thing on my desktop is my HD icons. Seems like every Windows desktop I see is cluttered with shortcuts. Some have every sinlge possible space on the desktop filled with some icon. It's ridiculous. One thing that I notice is that many Windows users who switch to OS X continue this cluttered desktop practice. The worst thing about it is that half the icons are crap. They're installers, and shit that the people will never need again, and certainly don't need regular access to. When I see desktops like this, the first thing that comes to mind is "CMD-A delete" (not that that would work on a PC). My parents do it a little bit, but mostly it's folders and documents, not aliases.
It took me a little while to get used to the OS X way of things. Particularly the organizational aspect, but I pretty much use it now. Of course, in some cases (namely my music and movies folders) I have to put aliases in my Home folder that link to folders on an external HD, because my internal is only 20gigs and those folders just take up to much space.
Anyway, I guess that's all; just felt the need to say all that for some reason. Basically, I guess I agree with all of those (everybody really) who who have mentioned a tutorial. It would really help. And it would help me too... Every time I help out a friend who is a new Mac user and I am using their computer, I desperately want to "fix" everything, but that wouldn't help, because then they just wouldn't be able to find anything. Oh well...
I think Apple should consider having the Home directory appear on the desktop by default, at least in addition to, and perhaps instead of, the drives.
Yup, right. Personally, I even went a step further: I partitioned my iBook's HD into 3 partitions, one for Panther, one for MacOS 9 and a third one. Then I went to the Net Info Manager tool and changed my home "directory" to that partition.
Now, whenever I want to install a new system or re-install my old one or whatever, I can simply erase the Panther partition without having to fear for any of my personal files, settings or even applications (as long as they're installed in my home dir as well), allowing a clean installation of the new system.
I've only been using OSX since October and one of the most frustrating things is not understanding the file structure. I think it would be smart for Apple to include a one page sheet of some of the major differences in structure from OS9 to X. I know it didn't really start making sense to me till I started reading OSX the missing manual.
When I review my 18 years of experience, I conclude that all current personal computers fail to provide a pleasurable, easy, user experience. It is utterly ridiculous that a user must learn so much before she/he can begin.
Exactly.
The only explanation (not a justification) I can think of is that geeks must not be left to work on their own. All professional software developers are fluent with computers. They don't even need a file browser (Finder). Most of them are complete geeks: they don't need UI, they don't care about normal users and if you don't get something they call you a lamer.
OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists.
The only explanation (not a justification) I can think of is that geeks must not be left to work on their own. All professional software developers are fluent with computers. They don't even need a file browser (Finder). Most of them are complete geeks: they don't need UI, they don't care about normal users and if you don't get something they call you a lamer.
OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists.
Hi costique
"OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists. "
I am not even sure about scientists - unless you mean psychologists.
I must say, as someone who essentially started on OSX, rather than having 'converted' from OS9, I found OSX rather easy to learn.
I did play around a couple of months on OS9 until 10.1 became available (OS 10.0 being a something of a no-go from my perspective) and before I started using my Mac intensively (there is a story behind why I barely used my computer for the first couple of months I had it - but I have told it before on these boards). I found OSX much nicer than OS9, and far nicer than the Windows that I must continue to use at work. To gain even more knowledge and control, however, "The Missing Manual" was useful.
Comments
Originally posted by Ganondorf
Okay, cool, I didn't even think about adding icons to the dock!
you even can drag any icon (file, app, folder) to the menubar on top. try it! its amazing.
i put eg fontapp, printertools etc on top. one click away to launch.
the good news about OS X is: you can treat it in some kind of oldfashioned manners - the classic way. OR: you can treat it as a powerfull, flexible OS with all the gadgets.
best
Originally posted by Gon
Frankly, I don't know if I can freely delete the media directories without screwing up programs like iTunes.
yes, you can delete them until you've launched itunes, iphoto and the ones the very first time. After launching the first time, the iapps have created files inside these folders. these database-like files shouldn't been touched, moved or altered.
Apple should just give the user an empty ~ and have a choice in the options whether to show the full directory tree or only the user part.
NO!!! Apple just should put these "media iapp database folder stuff" into the library, where they finaly belong. Period. Under no circumstannces they should be visible by default. It simply makes no sence and creates bad user experiences.
IMHO
best
Originally posted by Gon
I'm trying to teach my mom to use her iBook. She is not very familiar with computers. Does web browsing, pays bills, uses web mail.
Recent things we've looked at:
- the Dock (need to close applications, not just windows)
- copy-pasting text
- Mozilla Firebird as an upgrade from the discontinued IE
Next things to tackle:
- Mail.app
- basics of the directory structure and Finder (she is very confused whenever she needs to open something through a dialog even if the file is on her desktop)
I'm also learning OS X as we go, since I don't have an own Mac.
Personally, I appreciate the Unix way and the home directories, but I don't appreciate the way OS X has the "media directories" - even if I use media type as a primary sorting factor, I don't want to have it dictated to me. Frankly, I don't know if I can freely delete the media directories without screwing up programs like iTunes.
Apple should just give the user an empty ~ and have a choice in the options whether to show the full directory tree or only the user part.
you can delete your folders for media, as long as you tell iTunes which folder you would like to use for music. You can move all the music and put it wherever you want but you need to tell iTunes in it's preference window, i don;t use the my pictures folder, i find it tooo windows like, i like putting my stuff where i want it. What really annoys me about OS X is all the applications that put their preference files in my documents folder, i don't want them there, can't they leave them in my library, why do i have to have "<App> User Data" - does anyone know what happens if you moved it to your library. Actually that's something i love, the library, it's a brilliant way to organise your preferences etc. and it makes it easier to tinker with just your area, much better than OS 9
Originally posted by Gon
I'm trying to teach my mom to use her iBook. She is not very familiar with computers. Does web browsing, pays bills, uses web mail.
...
- basics of the directory structure and Finder (she is very confused whenever she needs to open something through a dialog even if the file is on her desktop)
You can drag'n'drop files into open dialogs. Combined with F11 to show desktop with exposé this should make things easy for her in that common case at least.
Started with the Atari OS in 1985. Found it relatively simple and intuitive. Began with Mac around 2 years later - OS 8.6. Updates to OS 9.X no problem. Felt that both Atari and Mac OSs were within my grasp.
Used Wintel at work. Administrator made updates, sorted problems. Never understood what went on under the hood - but daily use no problem.
Have OSX on an eMac but stay with 9.2.2. Why? For me OSX is a quantum leap from OS9XX. Files with funny names, to me as strange as Windows
I am a skeptic. When I review my 18 years of experience, I conclude that all current personal computers fail to provide a pleasurable, easy, user experience. It is utterly ridiculous that a user must learn so much before she/he can begin.
Consider the auto. Maybe it took 30 to 50 years but now anybody can jump into one and drive away without having to wonder where to find the controls or how to use them.
IMHO our personal computers today have hardly progressed beyond the early days of the auto when a man had to walk in front with a red flag. But now we are told that technology advances much more quickly, so why not the PC experience? Answer - PC and software designers cannot see the wood for the trees.
Very many of us want only to type messages or letters, manipulate a few numbers, display a picture or two and surf the Net. In many cases a sharp black/white display would suffice (B/W on a color screen is poor compared to a dedicated B/W scerren - I speak from exoerience with a 19 inch B/W Atari system).
I am no longer to be counted among the young but my mind is as active as my young friends - of whom I have many. Where they score is being in daily contact with many others of like mind with whom they can discuss problems. Older people tend to have a more limited range of contacts. Their eyesight diminishes. Thankfully we have forums like this one to air our views.
Populations in the developed countries are ageing. They constitute a growing market. Who will address it? IMHO none of the current major PC suppliers fit the bill.
Comments welcomed.
Happy New Year to all
eric j
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
i learned, that windows users get familiar with X pretty much faster than classic mac users. that's paradox isn't it?
I love the way OS 9 worked but X looks amazing. The main reason windows users get used to mac faster is because XP is such a rip off mac. But also, OS X is dramatically different from OS 9. UNIX changes the way it works - but i am sure apple could make it less 'icky' and not put in home folders and picture folders (unless of course you have areas turned on in which case i agree with the format for home folders) It takes a long time to scroll through windows to get to your home directory when using classic because of the absurd file system. Make macs user-centric don't just say you are. Apple seem to be making macs to easy to use, but in the process they hinder expert users.
I just liked having the documents folder on the desktop and not worry about it, obv. an alias will do but that's not the same, also i liked the pop-up window thing in OS 9, is a come-back likely?
-Applications Folder
-Documents folder
with new users (switchers, etc) I also usually add an alias of these two on the desktop.
Good idea about removing the HD icons.
Why is there no tutorial when you turn on a brand new mac or install a new copy of the OS???? Just the basics!!!!
Everyone I see is AFRAID of selecting "Help". They all think it will cause more problems to open it and see what it says. Also, I guess some pride involved.
Because people dont know how to get to their Applications folder, most of the time they have NO CLUE what apps there are installed, except what comes as default on the dock!!!!
Comeonnnnnnn apple...
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I love the way OS 9 worked but X looks amazing. ...
the past 12 years i asked myself (well, from time to time;-), why i prefer macos (classic) over windows. and then i stomped through that amazing ars article "spatial finder thing" (hanibal?) that explained it for me. the mac was strictly spatial, thats it.
macos X is NOT strictly spatial. its behavior is sometimes spatial and sometimes path-oriented. and that kind of inconsistency is confusing for most mac centered users. windows users have particulary NO problems with X. they switch smoothly from one os to the other.
perhaps it is because they are forced to use "their windows" from the beginning in a certain way ("dont touch this file", "dont save your files here or there", "first do this and than do that to achieve this or that.", "ah, did i mentioned: to go there is a no-no" etc pp.)
now osX is my os of choice, because of its freedom of choices. now i don`t like os9 anymore, it feels somewhat clumsy.
my 2 cent
Originally posted by Ganondorf
I personally am new to Mac OS, and I don't know what you guys are talking about. I put all programs in the Applications folder (what I equate to the Program Files folder in Windows) and all documents in the Documents folder under Users>Eric (my name)>Documents. My desktop is "cluttered" with shortcuts (aliases) to all the programs I use regularly.
Am I doing anything wrong?
Like others have said: no, you're not technically doing anything wrong (since, really, we can use our computers however we like), but man, cluttered desktops drive me nuts.
My first Mac was an SE when I was about 4. I've never had more than about 10 items on my desktop. And now, in OS X, the only thing on my desktop is my HD icons. Seems like every Windows desktop I see is cluttered with shortcuts. Some have every sinlge possible space on the desktop filled with some icon. It's ridiculous. One thing that I notice is that many Windows users who switch to OS X continue this cluttered desktop practice. The worst thing about it is that half the icons are crap. They're installers, and shit that the people will never need again, and certainly don't need regular access to. When I see desktops like this, the first thing that comes to mind is "CMD-A delete" (not that that would work on a PC). My parents do it a little bit, but mostly it's folders and documents, not aliases.
It took me a little while to get used to the OS X way of things. Particularly the organizational aspect, but I pretty much use it now. Of course, in some cases (namely my music and movies folders) I have to put aliases in my Home folder that link to folders on an external HD, because my internal is only 20gigs and those folders just take up to much space.
Anyway, I guess that's all; just felt the need to say all that for some reason. Basically, I guess I agree with all of those (everybody really) who who have mentioned a tutorial. It would really help. And it would help me too... Every time I help out a friend who is a new Mac user and I am using their computer, I desperately want to "fix" everything, but that wouldn't help, because then they just wouldn't be able to find anything. Oh well...
Originally posted by jginsbu
I think Apple should consider having the Home directory appear on the desktop by default, at least in addition to, and perhaps instead of, the drives.
Yup, right. Personally, I even went a step further: I partitioned my iBook's HD into 3 partitions, one for Panther, one for MacOS 9 and a third one. Then I went to the Net Info Manager tool and changed my home "directory" to that partition.
Now, whenever I want to install a new system or re-install my old one or whatever, I can simply erase the Panther partition without having to fear for any of my personal files, settings or even applications (as long as they're installed in my home dir as well), allowing a clean installation of the new system.
Greetings,
durandal
Originally posted by knappa
I'm gonna try some of your 'tricks' on my grandfather.
Originally posted by torifile
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I just found this. It seems like a good way to show people the basics. Anyone else seen it?
All that is is the training information for .Mac users. So they have ilegally copied it and Apple will take them down.
Originally posted by eric j
When I review my 18 years of experience, I conclude that all current personal computers fail to provide a pleasurable, easy, user experience. It is utterly ridiculous that a user must learn so much before she/he can begin.
Exactly.
The only explanation (not a justification) I can think of is that geeks must not be left to work on their own. All professional software developers are fluent with computers. They don't even need a file browser (Finder). Most of them are complete geeks: they don't need UI, they don't care about normal users and if you don't get something they call you a lamer.
OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists.
[B]Exactly.
The only explanation (not a justification) I can think of is that geeks must not be left to work on their own. All professional software developers are fluent with computers. They don't even need a file browser (Finder). Most of them are complete geeks: they don't need UI, they don't care about normal users and if you don't get something they call you a lamer.
OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists.
Hi costique
"OS design should be driven by scientists and usability gurus, rather than geeky programmers and cartoon artists. "
I am not even sure about scientists - unless you mean psychologists.
Peace
eric j
I did play around a couple of months on OS9 until 10.1 became available (OS 10.0 being a something of a no-go from my perspective) and before I started using my Mac intensively (there is a story behind why I barely used my computer for the first couple of months I had it - but I have told it before on these boards). I found OSX much nicer than OS9, and far nicer than the Windows that I must continue to use at work. To gain even more knowledge and control, however, "The Missing Manual" was useful.