finder icon in dock - bug or feature?

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
folks,



since jaguar i casually ask myself: why, for christ sake, is there a finder icon in the dock? it is pure waste of space. the user should have at least the possibility to make the icon disappear.



ok, i calmed myself, if you have tons of windows of tons of apps in the same time open, you click on "finder icon" and there you are: finder.



BUT the problem starts here.



a) You need another click to hide all open windows to finally get in the state to use the finder, - unless you have at least one finder window left.



b) if there is at least one finder window open, one click onto "finder dock icon" creates ... nothing. that is ridiciouless imo. a huge waste of space.



The mouse action should at least create a new finder window, or should hide others than finder windows. or both. or you should have options to manage how that nas** icon behaves.



best

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    I think when you click on the finder icon it should hide all open windows and show you the desktop. Actually I am going to tell apple this. What do you guys think? Or really you should be able to set what you want it to do...
  • Reply 2 of 18
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Whahuh?



    What do you mean "If no other Finder windows are open you have to hide all windows to use Finder"???



    Try Cmd-N. Boom. Finder window.



    You aren't still in 'double-click on hard drive icon on Desktop like in MacOS 9' mode are you?



    Making the Finder Dock icon be *special* is just another way to screw up the UI.



    Hold down Cmd-option and click the Dock icon. Boom. All other windows hidden, Desktop exposed.



    Press F11 in 10.3. Boom. Expose triggers, all windows gone, Desktop exposed, double-click on hard drive.



    Whole lotta 'Boom's without the need to muck with the icon behaviour.
  • Reply 3 of 18
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    I sent apple feed back on the finder icon. I said that they should have a way to change would it does.



    1. minimize all open windows at once

    2. hide all windows at once

    3. open finder window

    4. desktop expose
  • Reply 4 of 18
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Algol

    I sent apple feed back on the finder icon. I said that they should have a way to change would it does.



    1. minimize all open windows at once




    Okay, you got me on this one, but I fail to see the utility.



    Quote:

    2. hide all windows at once



    If you mean all *other* windows...



    Cmd-Opt-Click on Dock Icon.



    Just like every other app.



    Quote:

    3. open finder window,



    If there are none open, it does this. If there are, then Cmd-N.



    Just like (most) every other (Apple) app.



    Quote:

    4. desktop expose



    F11.



    Just like every other app.









    I sense a trend here...
  • Reply 5 of 18
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    Dude, I think you are to eager to bash all my idea. I realize that you can already do theset things by hitting key commands. However, many people do not know these commands and apple does not really tell you what they are. Hiding windows is great but minimizing is useful to. I think that if the finder icon minimized all open windows this would a useful feature for it. At least the default command should be to hide all windows. I don't know but I really think that apple could come up with something.
  • Reply 6 of 18
    Consistency, my friend. That's one of the things people harp about Macs being better than Windows. Making icons in the same place act differently is not a good thing; it does not make good interface design.



    The Finder icon acts exactly as all other icons do. Click it and all its windows are brought to the front. If it has no windows, a new "default" one is created. If you want to show only that app or to hide it, you use the same keystrokes as you would on other icons. It's the same as all good Mac OS X apps. As Steve Jobs himself said, the Finder is now literally "just another app."



    Consistency. It's a good thing.



    Also, if you *really* want to get to the desktop in a hurry, you'll use Expose. Use the right tool for the right job.
  • Reply 7 of 18
    I always have two column view finder windows open, so clicking the Finder icon brings those to the front for me. That's exactly what I want it to do, so I think it's a useful feature.
  • Reply 8 of 18
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Whahuh?



    Making the Finder Dock icon be *special* is just another way to screw up the UI.







    agreed with everything you've mentioned above.

    BIG BUT: WHAT ABOUT FINDER DOCK ICON ITSELF? It has simply no sense, no destination, plain and clear. sorry to bother;-)



    best
  • Reply 9 of 18
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    Well I understand what you are saying brad and I agree with you I guess. However, what is wrong with being able to click on the finder icon and be able to select a few tasks like the ones I listed instead of having to do key commands? Also, why can't you move the finder icon around? Also how ever apple decides to use it I think a feature to minimize all open windows into the dock would be useful. no?
  • Reply 10 of 18
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brad

    Consistency, my friend. ...



    The Finder icon acts exactly as all other icons do.




    accept that i can't drag it away, ifi want that, ... just thinking about consistency;-) IT IS NOT.



    best
  • Reply 11 of 18
    Until now I did not know the cmd-optn click. (Always wondered how to do it as I've seen one of my friends do it when he was back from college but I did not ask.) If Apple made some sort of GOOD help icon to say what you could do. Or to build on the lcd keyboard thing idea, when you highlight an icon you could put it in a "reveal options on keyboard" mode or something....
  • Reply 12 of 18
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Vox Barbara

    accept that i can't drag it away, ifi want that, ... just thinking about consistency;-) IT IS NOT.



    best




    Apple expects the Finder to be always running.



    You know what would be a mind-****? A Dock icon in the Dock. ... Maybe not.
  • Reply 13 of 18
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    Apple expects the Finder to be always running.



    You know what would be a mind-****? A Dock icon in the Dock. ... Maybe not.




    I'm confused now...
  • Reply 14 of 18
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    Apple expects the Finder to be always running.





    i have understood that sort of concept;-) the finder is just another app and its always running in background. the icon represents its (app) sheer existence and here we go: it simply behaves not like any other normal app.



    perhaps i just want get rid off that stupid icon, - like any other icon that represents a normal app. that would satisfy me.



    sorry to bother, but that is my humble feeling, and i'm not alone;-)



    best
  • Reply 15 of 18
    jwilljwill Posts: 209member
    I say it belongs there. It's usually open, it makes sense to be first in the line, and if you removed it you'd have a heck of a time getting to the Finder without using Expose or clicking into whatever space you have left on the desktop.
  • Reply 16 of 18
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    I don't really see why it's so utterly useless. the finder is a sort f weird case, it does have a lot of exceptional behavior, mainly because it was exceptional in the Classic OS and it inherits some of that, uh, uniqueness in OS X. I think people are also confusing the Finder with the System, and the desktop with the Finder to some degree. The Desktop is a special window, one that I was finding less and less convenient as time went on in the Classic Mac OS, and one which I find to be incidental in OS X.



    I can see why it might seem superfluous to have a Dock icon when an app is perpetually running. But what happens when all its windows are closed? In the case of the finder, you have an out: the desktop. But it's a pain to un-bury the desktop and create a new Finder window or burrow down through my hard drive icon (something I do not leave on my desktop anymore) to my stuff as opposed to clicking on the Finder's dock icon and having my home folder or frontmost open folder in front of everything immediately with one click.



    While I wouldn't seriously suggest doing anything about this, the desktop and hard drive icons on the desktop are more superfluous to me than the Finder Dock icon.



    Oh yeah, and I hate the Dock icon for the Finder too.
  • Reply 17 of 18
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Vox Barbara

    i have understood that sort of concept;-) the finder is just another app and its always running in background. the icon represents its (app) sheer existence and here we go: it simply behaves not like any other normal app.







    ...and that's where I think this post already falls apart.



    The Finder is not "running in background" any more than Safari or TextEdit or iTunes. It has windows. It has an interface that can be brought to the front. It does act like all other apps do. Its Dock icon activates the app and the windows act like all other apps' windows do. Several of us have already pointed that out. Where do you disagree? Any app with which you interact regularly or for that matter one that simply has a GUI is certainly not a background app. A background application would be something like the web server daemon -- it runs invisibly in the background and the user never interacts with it directly via its GUI.



    The Finder is essentially the root app for Mac OS X from the user's perspective. You need the Finder to get anything done. Answer me this: how would you get back to the Finder without its Dock icon? You need the Dock icon to get to it. You certainly can't launch it from a Finder window in you don't have, um, a Finder window.



    If you really want to get down to nitty gritty specifics, there are only two things that are different about the Finder icon in the Dock: it can't be moved and it can't be quit from the Dock. These two points have already been explained by Eugene and myself: Apple expects the Finder to always be running. If it's not running for some reason, you will need some way to get it back. A permanent icon in the Dock allows that.
  • Reply 18 of 18
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brad

    ... Answer me this: how would you get back to the Finder without its Dock icon? You need the Dock icon to get to it. You certainly can't launch it from a Finder window in you don't have, um, a Finder window.



    ...um... i still mull over;-)



    well, i can't come up with a solution for the time beeing. Everything you (and other well respected people in this forum) say is certainly right. Maybe the sheer fact that i can't remove that particular icon disturbs me, it't nothing rationaly explainable;-) Period.



    To answer your question: just click into free space on desktop, there you are, finder. Maybe classic thinking. Maybe it's just me, who confuses "desktop" and "finder", as someone mentioned earlier. But on a basis of daily usage, the distinction between these two concepts (finder & desktop) is almost a mere shine, isn't it?

    The average user, who just wants to get his work done quickly, doesn't think about it. He just use it, more or less, with his very own skills of intuition. And thats it: the UI should be intuitive. And my concern is: os X is less intuitive than classic. I watch many mac newbiees (yes, i'm responsible for many many switchers to the beloved mac-plattform;-)), how they treat their computer. And it's almost never ...um...flawless...

    But that is another subject for another thread...



    best
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