I'm not quite sure I "get" the new iPods...
Maybe I have it all wrong?
They?re not THAT ?mini?. And when the $249 price appeared in his Keynote slide, I almost choked. While it may be totally unrealistic of me to have expected - along with others - a $99 iPod, I surely thought something in the $149-199 range was a sure bet and was thinking ?well, this is great...go get ?em, Steve!?...UNTIL that price dropped in.
Granted, its more capacity than the market they?re going after. But it?s SO CLOSE to the low-end iPod.
Could they not have saved all that design and manufacturing time and simply - since they seem to have discontinued it in favor of the 15GB at the entry $299 price - maybe sold the 10GB model for, say, $199?
I?d rather see a 4 iPod lineup, covering 10, 15, 20 and 40GB at $199, $299, $399 and $499 than to see a $249 that isn?t that ?mini?, isn?t THAT roomy.
I?m just thinking out loud here, but who - with money tight and people so careful about where it goes - would buy these, when they can spend $50 more and get nearly 4x the capacity (4GB > 15GB)?
I guess the colors and slightly smaller size appeal to some (many, even), but I just don?t know. Am I the only one who thinks $249 for 4GB - no matter how small or cool the colors are - is kinda dead in the water? I really, really, really did not expect these things to be anywhere near $249. I was absolutely stunned.
Comments
It seems to me that the whole point of the iPod mini, was that it would effectively clean up on the entry level market. And more importantly convince the vast majority of consumers - who have yet to buy any form of MP3 player - to buy.
The old iPod is great but has been primarily an early adopter device for the past few years. I thought the whole point of the mini was to finally deliver the product at a price point for the mass market.
Why would Apple do this? Simple. iTMS and AAC. They need to make not just the player but the entire platform the best value proposition out there. Remember, there are a lot of competitors out there using WMA.
If Steve thinks it is all about competing with overpriced, high-end MP3 players then he is looking the wrong way. Turn round Steve, they are behind you!
He asked for feedback from the floor at the Expo and he got it. Bewildered silence. Apple need to act fast to correct their mistake.
truly weird reverse-psychology, but steve's done stranger things...
Also. this may also bring in more people that were waiting for slightly cheaper ipods and then they may end up saying "well for $50 more I can get the 15 GB" so it may also help to move more of the regular ipods as well. as long as they dont over manufacture them, it should be a win/win.
My fear - as usual (and I think I'm constantly proved right on it) - is that Apple will, again, simply not do much to get the word out. They've made ANOTHER "dancing silhouettes to hip hip with colored backgrounds" ad that doesn't really convey much at all to the non-Mac person or the typical viewer not aware of digital music, mp3, iPod, the iTMS, etc.
Once again, is Joe Blow going to a) KNOW about these new iPods, b) realize what they're for/what they do and c) give a flying damn about any of it, left to himself to figure it all out?
I doubt it. I really do. 4-plus years tells me so...
You'd honestly think they would make an informative (AND watchable) commercial, making it crystal clear what these iPods are/do. Imagine the payoff.
i still would love to see apple make one freakin small flash drive player for gym users and joggers...
a three tiered approach like their computers (consumer, pro, laptop)
make one flash player with 256 or 512 mb (99 and 149 bucks)call it the iPod sport
make the iPod mini just the iPod at 4, 10, 20 gigs (199, 249, 299)
and the iPod xtreme (current size--could call it iPod maxi but way too feminine hygine)---at 40, 60, 80 gigs (349, 399, 499)
if apple did this they would quickly have 60 percent of the market and iTMS would have much less to worry about from walmart and the other start ups
g
Originally posted by pscates
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next 2-3 months with these. They're either going to be a colossal flop, OR the greatest thing since sliced bread. No middle ground, I'm betting.
My fear - as usual (and I think I'm constantly proved right on it) - is that Apple will, again, simply not do much to get the word out. They've made ANOTHER "dancing silhouettes to hip hip with colored backgrounds" ad that doesn't really convey much at all to the non-Mac person or the typical viewer not aware of digital music, mp3, iPod, the iTMS, etc.
Once again, is Joe Blow going to a) KNOW about these new iPods, b) realize what they're for/what they do and c) give a flying damn about any of it, left to himself to figure it all out?
I doubt it. I really do. 4-plus years tells me so...
You'd honestly think they would make an informative (AND watchable) commercial, making it crystal clear what these iPods are/do. Imagine the payoff.
Apple has sold over 2 million iPods, 750,000 of them in the last quarter, with just the dancing silhouettes. Don't discount word of mouth and branding. Every iPod owner can't wait to gush about it to non iPod owners at every opportunity they get. Also once a person has been exposed to an iPod, every pair of white headphones they see just mocks them for not having one yet. Do you see ads for any other MP3 player on TV? Just wondering, but I haven't seen an ad for anything but the iPod.
For the MiniPod $149-199 would be a go with most people. For the folks I hang out with 199 can get under the guilt radar, but when you go this far over $200 and people start to hang on to their wallets. $250 plus taxes and you start to worry about rent.
What apple has done is just go after a different high end market. The rich joggers and the "smaller is better" zealots. There is still no iPod for the masses.
This is good and bad:
On one hand it will still be elite and exclusive to have an iPod. Cool factor keeps margins high. This is the reason that you never see a movie action hero typing on his eMachines computer Instead he has his Powerbook. When the influential, chic folks have Apple stuff, other people will pay high margins to join the club.
On the other hand, most people will look at a price this high, buy the 50% cheaper alternative technologies and Apple's market share will dwindle slowly but steadily. I wouldn't mind being in the elite minority except that Microsoft controls the standard that EVERY OTHER DRM'ed PLAYER USES!
I know that Apple says that iPod is itself the goal, rather than just being a pawn in some battle between AAC and WMP, but the iPod and iTMS would be much safer to stay the standard, not have to eventually pay a Microsoft tax as the Windows Media format comes to dominate the market.
The iPod needs to support the iTMS as it struggles against WMP by having a way for people to buy into Apple's vision without a $250 upfront investment. We don't need another Apple product becoming dependant on Microsoft's technology to survive. And it is pricing itself right out of the crucial longterm marketshare numbers game. Why does Apple never go the other route and try to dominate the market?
I really hope this will drop to $199 or slightly below in a few months once the "oooh shiny" crowd buys the first batch of these things at the higher price.
NOTE: All you guys posting about how "I'm so mad about the price, so I'm just gonna spend more for the regular iPod, screw you Apple!" make me laugh. This IS STEVE's GOAL!
What we really need to talk about is whether Apple will ever bother to take the ready money of people who won't spend over $200, but would buy a reduced feature set, well designed Apple solution for music at a reasonable range of $100-200 dollars. This is the price range that will have the most volume year over year and will determine what the landscape looks like in music for the forseeable future.
Originally posted by Curufinwe
* I posted my ruminations in the poll thread, I'll paste them again here: *
Wow, thanks for adding absolutely nothing to this discussion.
Maybe so. I guess that could be filed under "genius marketing and moneysaving measures".
Just seems to me that the company that MAKES the gizmos would be a little more "out there" about it, that's all.
If the "silhouette" ads and water-carrying iPod owners are causing this much of a stir, imagine what a REAL campaign could produce!
Time to get greedy and ballsy is all I'm sayin'...
Originally posted by pscates
HOM and segovius - that's fine. That's great. But do you think that's ALL it can be? Do you expect Apple to think that's enough? Good enough? Let iPod owners do all the work?
Maybe so. I guess that could be filed under "genius marketing and moneysaving measures".
Just seems to me that the company that MAKES the gizmos would be a little more "out there" about it, that's all.
If the "silhouette" ads and water-carrying iPod owners are causing this much of a stir, imagine what a REAL campaign could produce!
Time to get greedy and ballsy is all I'm sayin'...
I'll ask the question again (in a "I want to know" not a "I'm being a smartass" kind of way). Have you seen ads for any other MP3 player on TV? I know I haven't and I'm not sure that I am going to. Also, the iPod is so much more than a Spec Whore® product. GBs aren't what are selling iPods, it's the general consumer appeal. I'm not sure how you can translate that into an ad. Do I need to remind you that the dancing silhouettes won best ad of the year
Originally posted by segovius
When Apple do advertise then it's saturation coverage, at least in Paris where I live, every other bus-stop is plastered with iPod ads (sometimes 2 of them) as is the Metro and there are massive billboards all over town.
I think that you just hit the nail on the head. There are iPod billboards all over NYC. In almost every subway stop and bus stop there is an iPod ad. This is great marketing because people waiting for the subway/bus see the iPod ad then look at their shitty MP3 player/cd player and say to themselves "Damn it, I want an iPod." This is so much better than any tv ad.
Originally posted by HOM
Wow, thanks for adding absolutely nothing to this discussion.
I guess I should have paraphrased everything again?
If you don't think that the CONTENT added anything, just say so kiddo.
iPod Mini is an even higher end product than the original. It might generate lots of demand (esp. in Japan where they like truly high end electronics) but I think it won't compete against the cheapie flash players, its only competitors are Rio Nitrus and Creative Muvo which have similar tech.
Apple should not be content with the fact that only expensive players can play iTMS music. That spells eventual doom for iTMS. In the long run it would absolutely be worth it that Apple went with zero margins for the Minis, at least for a while. Also, they should get other manufacturers to put out dirt cheap, iTMS compatible players. The quality could be crap, but it would not be associated with Apple, and the existence of these devices would help iTMS by giving the appearance of choice - even though everyone would buy an Apple player sooner or later.
Originally posted by Gon
IMHO, a thrifty customer looks at value-for-price first, absolute price second. If you don't get hands on experience of the Pods, you will think they are bad value-for-price purely because of the numbers (price, storage, battery).
iPod Mini is an even higher end product than the original. It might generate lots of demand (esp. in Japan where they like truly high end electronics) but I think it won't compete against the cheapie flash players, its only competitors are Rio Nitrus and Creative Muvo which have similar tech.
Apple should not be content with the fact that only expensive players can play iTMS music. That spells eventual doom for iTMS. In the long run it would absolutely be worth it that Apple went with zero margins for the Minis, at least for a while. Also, they should get other manufacturers to put out dirt cheap, iTMS compatible players. The quality could be crap, but it would not be associated with Apple, and the existence of these devices would help iTMS by giving the appearance of choice - even though everyone would buy an Apple player sooner or later.
Uh, I think you've got it backwards. Selling songs online is a loss leader to drive sales of high margin iPods, not the other way around.
It is because there seems to be a strong desire to view the iPod mini announcement as a big deal or note worthy event. On the other hand, if you approach their release as a natural evolution of the same product, the discussion would perhaps take a different course.
Just as with the original iPod, Apple was able to get their hands on the smallest hard drives around. It seems prudent to get that new drive into a product as soon as possible. This will help differentiate the iPod from the growing ranks of competitors. Sure, it?s not revolutionary, but if the drive is available, why not use it?
You see, the minis were never meant to be revolutionary. They are just iPods with a smaller drive. I don?t even think the iPod minis were ever meant to be low cost iPods. That?s just our over active imaginations, wishful thinking, and the power of suggestion.
True, the mini has a smaller capacity, but that is a result of the technology on which it is based. The smaller capacity was never intended to differentiate the new iPod as a low cost alternative. Rather, that?s just the size the new drives come in.
Apple?s product development and pricing strategies are completely unchanged. All that?s changed is the price and size of the drives around which Apple builds the iPod. Now that a smaller drive is available, smaller iPods are available.
Come on Apple, give those babies some cousins!
Originally posted by pscates
HOM and segovius - that's fine. That's great. But do you think that's ALL it can be? Do you expect Apple to think that's enough? Good enough? Let iPod owners do all the work?
Maybe so. I guess that could be filed under "genius marketing and moneysaving measures".
Just seems to me that the company that MAKES the gizmos would be a little more "out there" about it, that's all.
If the "silhouette" ads and water-carrying iPod owners are causing this much of a stir, imagine what a REAL campaign could produce!
Time to get greedy and ballsy is all I'm sayin'...
http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...logo_holes.gif
Just wait til the Pepsi promo kicks off, that will have Apple everywhere from Beverly Hills mansions to gas stations in Boise.
Someone hit it on the head earlier when they said, "Apple is going after the people who were going to buy the $200 flash players that will now consider what $50 dollars can buy them."----the Mac people are considering what $50 can buy them FROM Apple...the other people in the market are looking at the whole market, not just Apple.
Apple's marketing will pick up, I'm sure. It is almost eerie how the iPod is in a similar market position as was the Macintosh back in '84...I think the iPod is getting the kind of attention and marketing push it needs to remain the best and most sought after device. Steve wont **** it up this time because it is his major chance ti infiltrate the hearts of PC users, show them the light, and ultimately keep Apple profitable and making better and better products. I think the iPod mini is a master stroke of marketing and company genious/strategy.