Will Apple's G5 come from IBM?
... posted this in another thread already:
From the <a href="http://www.mdronline.com/mpf/conf.html#day1_2"; target="_blank">Microprocessor Forum homepage</a>:
Breaking Through Compute Intensive Barriers - IBM's New 64-bit PowerPC Microprocessor
Peter Sandon, Senior Processor Architect, Power PC Organization, IBM Microelectronics
IBM is disclosing the technical details of a new 64-bit PowerPC microprocessor designed for desktops and entry-level servers. Based on the award winning Power4 design, this processor is an 8-way superscalar design that fully supports Symmetric MultiProcessing. The processor is further enhanced by a vector processing unit implementing over 160 specialized vector instructions and implements a system interface capable of up to 6.4GB/s.
Emphasis added. Altivec comprises 162 instructions - will IBM finally implement it? Are there any other desktop OSs on PowerPC apart from MacOSX? AIX maybe?
Interestingly, there are no anouncements by Motorola on the MPF homepage... . Maybe the G4 will be Moto's last desktop-capable processor for real?
From the <a href="http://www.mdronline.com/mpf/conf.html#day1_2"; target="_blank">Microprocessor Forum homepage</a>:
Breaking Through Compute Intensive Barriers - IBM's New 64-bit PowerPC Microprocessor
Peter Sandon, Senior Processor Architect, Power PC Organization, IBM Microelectronics
IBM is disclosing the technical details of a new 64-bit PowerPC microprocessor designed for desktops and entry-level servers. Based on the award winning Power4 design, this processor is an 8-way superscalar design that fully supports Symmetric MultiProcessing. The processor is further enhanced by a vector processing unit implementing over 160 specialized vector instructions and implements a system interface capable of up to 6.4GB/s.
Emphasis added. Altivec comprises 162 instructions - will IBM finally implement it? Are there any other desktop OSs on PowerPC apart from MacOSX? AIX maybe?
Interestingly, there are no anouncements by Motorola on the MPF homepage... . Maybe the G4 will be Moto's last desktop-capable processor for real?
Comments
<strong>...
Interestingly, there are no anouncements by Motorola on the MPF homepage... . Maybe the G4 will be Moto's last desktop-capable processor for real?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I thought you said you had to get some sleep. The average delay between an architecture being presented at MPF and appearing is around 18-24 months (I emphasize average), however, the news that IBM are working on less server-oriented, SIMD capable POWER4 variants is veru good news.
michael
But what is the number of Altivec instructions? something around 160? Too lazy to look up..
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: blabla ]</p>
I also think that when they discuss this chip it may be pretty far along and 6 to 12 months is more likely. But that could just be wishful thinking on my part.
Also note the "system interface capable of up to 6.4GB/s" -- the same as the recently announce nforce2 chipset, I believe.
Also note that it has the velocity engine.
The description doesn't fit anyone but Apple.
As far as timeframe, it could already be done. There's no rule that states a company MUST declare their future plans. The thing is a PowerPC + Velocity Engine + Power4. So it's not like it's a completely new design for IBM.
They better hurry.
*looks at watch*
<strong>
Also note that it has the velocity engine.
The description doesn't fit anyone but Apple.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where does it say "velocity engine?" It does say "vector unit," and Altivec/Velocity Engine IS a vector unit. Altivec/Velocity Engine is a vector unit, but not all vector units are Altivec/Velocity Engine.
<strong>But what is the number of Altivec instructions? something around 160? Too lazy to look up..</strong><hr></blockquote>
Blabla...
Interesting info I just found via google...
<a href="http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=4584"; target="_blank">http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=4584</a>;
----------------------------
[Posted on Friday, June 01, 2001 by Matthew Fite]
...snip...
"The AltiVec unit is an enhanced integer or floating processing unit. It provides a new 128-bit processing unit, 32 vector registers and over 160 new instructions that allow for the processing of data in a pipeline. These provide a tremendous opportunity to move data through the processor. "
----------------------------
Interesting how this article also quotes 'over 160 new instructions'... I'm betting that we are FINALLY reading about the NEXT GEN PPC and it sure looks like IBM has been given the ball.
For what it's worth, this is also what I think GPUL is...
Dave
<strong>8 way superscalar!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, I think I just messed my pants......
[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: macubus ]</p>
<strong>8 way superscalar!? Shazam! Hopefully the processor will support 4 way simultaneous multithreading, otherwise there is going to be a lot of bubbles in that pipeline.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Way over my head but here are (part of) the specs for the Power4 where it speaks about 8 way superscalar.
o 8-way superscalar processor:
-- 2 LSUs
-- 2 FPUs
-- 2 FXUs
-- 1 branch unit (BRU)
-- 1 condition register logic unit (CRLU)
o 15 to 20 stage pipelines
o Dynamic branch address and direction prediction
o Out-of-order execution of instruction groups
Dave
"According to the folka at hardmac.com (also known as MacBidouille.com) ... A Large RAM Vendor Has Listed DDR Memory Sticks for teh Xserve AND "New PowerMac"
Less importantly but still interesting to note is that they are listed as 266mhz AND 333mhz parts ... could a 166mhz bus also be included in the new powermac?
See For Yourselves ... Head To:
<a href="http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2002-08-07#3189"; target="_blank">http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2002-08-07#3189</a>;
And Look Under The Heading
"La DDR-SDRAM du nouveau G4 est en vente"
DDR being sold for the new powermac, and a New processor from IBM which seems like it could easily go into the new powermac. Looks to me like some NDA dates got screwed up and Powermac Release dates got pushed back, and i guess word just didn't get around to everyone.
Steve won't be happy that's for sure.....
Power4 Derivative, Nforce2, and DDR 333, New Case
Oh BTW Nforce2 supports agp 8x if i'm not mistaken, so i think i know what i'm going to buy when they come out
Also you could throw in new studio displays, firewire 2, 802.11g, Built in bluetooth, USB2 for maybe's
I can't wait.
<strong>well, i think it's now clear where the G5 is coming from. Now, the only question is when will we see these in powermacs? This month or January....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think Apple would allow anybody to announce a chip made for Apple's computers before Apple would. Since I'm assuming that this chip will be used by Apple, my guess is next week.
<strong>Steve won't be happy that's for sure..... Power4 Derivative, Nforce2, and DDR 333, New Case Oh BTW Nforce2 supports agp 8x if i'm not mistaken, so i think i know what i'm going to buy when they come out
Well... As excited as I am about this I'm not going to rest my hopes on THIS CPU being intro'd 'sometime in Aug' (or Sept).. Yea I'd be happy as a clam if it was but either way... by this time next year Mac (and X) will be sitting VERY VERY pretty... (if this stuff comes true)
Dave
<strong>
I don't think Apple would allow anybody to announce a chip made for Apple's computers before Apple would. Since I'm assuming that this chip will be used by Apple, my guess is next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
IBM has a tradition of talking about chips years ahead of actual release... While this is not a completly new chip, I dont expect it to show up as early as next week.
My guess: Early next year, when IBMs new chip facility is moving to 0.13.
thats a pretty long pipeline.. isnt the P4 like 24 stage. dont know the exact number but that sounds close.
that will allow very high clock speeds.
question about the nforce2 chipset.
CAN it even be used on a NON x86 architecture?
the one they have now only works on the AMD platform. how much reworking would they have to do to make it work on an apple infustructure?
<strong>question about the nforce2 chipset.
CAN it even be used on a NON x86 architecture?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The 6.4GB/s bandwidth is the only basis for comparison to the nForce, and what it probably means is that, like the nForce, the platform uses HyperTransport for interconnecting parts on the board.
This sounds good.
<strong>This sounds good.
it better not take TOO long. intel said already they will have a 3ghz on store shelves for this christmas.
they need to start closing this gap before apple gets completely lost in the dust.
<strong>
IBM has a tradition of talking about chips years ahead of actual release... While this is not a completly new chip, I dont expect it to show up as early as next week.
My guess: Early next year, when IBMs new chip facility is moving to 0.13.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I don't know what IBM does but I'll take your word that the announce things way in advance. Nonetheless, I don't think Apple would allow public disclosure of the techinical details of a chip that they were going to use. My guess is that we'll see this thing next week.