The computer is the "hub". What is needed are good/cheap devices along the lines of Streamium and EyeHome/EyeTV which connect the hub to media inputs and outputs.
Well yes, as this topic (as I posted it) concerns an inexpensive connection dongle like thingy to stream content to the HiFi and TV via Firewire and optionally WiFi like the Streamium product.
However the topic has been expanded to include a more fully featured iBox (xBox?) to be equipped with a HD and DVD burner to morph it into a TiVo like PVR.
I propose that Apple should look into providing both solutions, a sub $200 connection device as well as a $499 ~ $999 entertainment hub that could operate independent of, or in conjunction with, the PC whether Apple or Wintel.
If Sorenson is specifically what you want then ask them to support it. If they decide there is enough content out there to warrant it, they just might do it.
hmmm, there's an thought.
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer
Perhaps what you ought to do is buy a FireWire-based MPEG-2 encoder and have your Mac play your movies TO and FROM that device in order to transcode them.
hehe - a crazy enough idea I might just do it! ::Grin:: I am eyeballing the EyeTV 200 and moving to mpeg-2 encoding rather than the DV->Sorenson 2 step process I'm currently using, hmmmmm.
Well yes, as this topic (as I posted it) concerns an inexpensive connection dongle like thingy to stream content to the HiFi and TV via Firewire and optionally WiFi like the Streamium product.
However the topic has been expanded to include a more fully featured iBox (xBox?) to be equipped with a HD and DVD burner to morph it into a TiVo like PVR.
I propose that Apple should look into providing both solutions, a sub $200 connection device as well as a $499 ~ $999 entertainment hub that could operate independent of, or in conjunction with, the PC whether Apple or Wintel.
Yeah, but my point is that the $499-$999 device isn't a particularly interesting one. Better to sell Macs to fill that role. This then becomes a $999 (or less) Mac.
Yeah, but my point is that the $499-$999 device isn't a particularly interesting one. Better to sell Macs to fill that role. This then becomes a $999 (or less) Mac.
OK then, how about a Media Mac / Digital Hub?
Cool, thin, HiFi component styling and dimensions. Fits in your component stack. Low power, low cost, low heat CPU (a GHz G4 would be plenty). input/output connect-ability for any conceivable combination of audio/TV devices plus the standard Mac ports and of course space for an Airport card. OSX for TV interface with Apple designed remote.
$499 ~ DVD CD/burner combo drive w/ 80 GB HD
$699 ~ Superdrive w/ 100 GB HD & TV tuner
$999 ~ Superdrive w/ 250 GB HD & HDTV tuner
Add on extras could be Nintendo Game Cube module , wireless keyboard and mouse, portable wireless display2go kind of thing for another 600 or 700 bucks. Use your imagination here.
Just winging it, so some adjustment to the details (the devil made me do it) can be made if you like.
Why keep inventing things over and over? The Mac is a perfect hub, and the world is going to filled with cheap media players that links with Mac. EyeHome is just the beginning (or just one of them but happened to work with EyeTV). Check out Neuston MC500 at http://www.neuston.com/en/mc500.asp.
Right, and the world was (and is) filled with cheap MP3 players, so why bother with the iPod? The world is filled with cheap computers, so why bother spending more for a Mac? The world is filled with cheap Yugos and Triblant's so why drive a Porsche? There are more McDonald's closer to your home than fine restaurants so why eat anywhere else? The world is filled with cheap Bic's so why have a Mont Blanc?
Apple design and engineering has proven, to me at least, that they can build a device that incorporates the ease of use and simplicity of the iPod, while providing unparalleled functionality.
I think there's a fundamental conflict of location of tech that goes on with such a media center concept. I know I've run smack dab into it.
We want:
1) PVR
2) Media offload to, and streaming from, another networked data storage unit
3) Silent, small, minimalist
4) inexpensive
EyeHome gets you 2, 3 & 4, a computer with an EyeTV gets you 1 and 4, a laptop with an EyeTVish gets you 1 & 2 (and somewhat 3), a Tivo gets you 1, 3 & 4.
The closest I've come is my retired Pismo plus a PVR box, but it's not exactly streamlined. I'm considering making a custom case for it and the PVR box I end up buying (EyeTV, Miglia's rumored box, Studio TVR, etc), with a silent fan to help with cooling.
Strangely enough, the biggest *practical* problem I've run into is that my office doesn't have a cable jack... so I either have to have a tower (loud, bulky, inelegant) in my living room, or have a standalone PVR that I can't get files off of easily. Bleah.
Things are moving towards this convergence, but there are still issues... for a media playback device that accesses files elsewhere, you need to make sure you can update the codec suite from time to time. Consumer electronics companies are just starting to make this sort of thing available on a regular basis. Also, what wrapper file formats? If Sony, say, signs a deal with MS to only use WMP formats, then what about your QT files? Or if Apple comes out with a QuickTime box, what about those AVI files that QT pukes on? We need choice, which generally means the ability to run new apps. Which means a pretty hefty requirement for a consumer electronics appliance, but fairly simple ones for a computer. Hence, my Pismo approach. Still, could be a lot cheaper... \
Apple design and engineering has proven, to me at least, that they can build a device that incorporates the ease of use and simplicity of the iPod, while providing unparalleled functionality.
I have a TiVo ~ I just want more.
BIC
Honestly I think Apple should at this moment, perfect its iPod strategy (and yes, introduce an iPhoto compatible iPod), and not to compete with Apple friendly companies like Elgato.
It depends if Apple can really innovate here. Right now TiVo has the Porsche guts (relative) and the 2CV exterior. Your analogy isn't that valid. How much better is can a homegrown system be. Instead Apple should be working with TiVo, Motorola, ReplayTV, etc. on a set of standards.
Cool, thin, HiFi component styling and dimensions. Fits in your component stack. Low power, low cost, low heat CPU (a GHz G4 would be plenty). input/output connect-ability for any conceivable combination of audio/TV devices plus the standard Mac ports and of course space for an Airport card. OSX for TV interface with Apple designed remote.
Why this obsession with putting a computer into your HiFi stack? The big hot processor box should go into a space suited for it (an office or closet), not into your living space where your entertainment system is. All that needs to be there is the interface.
2) Media offload to, and streaming from, another networked data storage unit
3) Silent, small, minimalist
4) inexpensive
EyeHome gets you 2, 3 & 4, a computer with an EyeTV gets you 1 and 4, a laptop with an EyeTVish gets you 1 & 2 (and somewhat 3), a Tivo gets you 1, 3 & 4.
The closest I've come is my retired Pismo plus a PVR box, but it's not exactly streamlined...
Now if you could just get that Pismo in the PVR box ...
The San Jose, California-based company, whose service enables users to pause and replay live TV, said new products featuring it include DVD recorders manufactured by consumer electronics makers Humax and Toshiba; a high-definition DVRs for satellite TV users; and home networking products.
TiVo also unveiled TiVo-to-Go, which lets users who also subscribe to an additional TiVo home networking service to transfer shows they have recorded on the set-top box to a home computer. The system is kept secure by a unique key-sized memory device that must be plugged into the computer when the recorded content is watched or copied.
So progress marches on, and Eugene, my car analogy was directed to eyeTV vs, an Apple designed solution. My "TiVo" is a Sony licensed version, and looks pretty good in my AV stack, plus the Sony remote is nicer than the TiVo "peanut".
Quote:
Originally posted by Programmer :
Why this obsession with putting a computer into your HiFi stack? The big hot processor box should go into a space suited for it (an office or closet), not into your living space where your entertainment system is. All that needs to be there is the interface.
The Sony TiVo is a Linux based computer running (24/7) in my HiFi stack right now. And as a matter of fact it used to be in my office, which is just off the living room. I controlled it from the living room by a pretty slick Radio Shack remote "repeater" which consists of two small pyramid shaped boxes that relays the IR signal to the office by radio. Since this cool little gadget would work in a closet, since, unlike IR signals, it works through walls, something your average IR remote control has difficulty with.
Obsession? Possibly, but I like Apple design and engineering. I also see this type of device as the next "outside the box" mega hit for Apple should they choose to go there. I want it for myself, but even more I want it for my AAPL stock holdings. As TiVo comes closer to what I see as the perfect set-top box maybe Apple should just purchase them outright. Some of he 4.5 billion Apple has accumulated would be well spent here.
Obsession? Possibly, but I like Apple design and engineering. I also see this type of device as the next "outside the box" mega hit for Apple should they choose to go there. I want it for myself, but even more I want it for my AAPL stock holdings. As TiVo comes closer to what I see as the perfect set-top box maybe Apple should just purchase them outright. Some of he 4.5 billion Apple has accumulated would be well spent here.
Putting computers into small quiet boxes that can fit in the living room increases their cost, limits their flexibility, and puts demands on their aesthetics. My point remains that this box should be hidden away where it can be as cheap, functional and flexible as possible. This lets you add hard disks, interface boards, memory, etc without any troubles.
... My point remains that this box should be hidden away where it can be as cheap, functional and flexible as possible. This lets you add hard disks, interface boards, memory, etc without any troubles.
My counterpoint is that this type of device's target audience is the 200,000,000 consumers (here in America) that buy cool looking things to ad to the HiFi and TV "stacks" that they currently use to listen to music and watch TV from their living room.
I picked the Sony TiVo because the box and remote control looked cooler than the standard TiVo unit, and it matched my "stack" nicely with a Sony TV and a Samsung DVD/VCR player/recorder.
Of course the Mac user in me would like to have an Xserver like device in a standard rack a closeted away somewhere in the house. Of course even if every Apple user in existence bought one of these it wouldn't have a fraction of the sales of a consumer centric product would have.
We'll just have to disagree as to what the better strategy for a new Apple digital hub product is. I will say that I just hope they come out with something in this area., and when they do I'll be satisfied that, if not specifically what I would have liked to see, at least they have addressed the "missing spoke" to their digital hub".
Comments
Originally posted by Programmer :
The computer is the "hub". What is needed are good/cheap devices along the lines of Streamium and EyeHome/EyeTV which connect the hub to media inputs and outputs.
Well yes, as this topic (as I posted it) concerns an inexpensive connection dongle like thingy to stream content to the HiFi and TV via Firewire and optionally WiFi like the Streamium product.
However the topic has been expanded to include a more fully featured iBox (xBox?) to be equipped with a HD and DVD burner to morph it into a TiVo like PVR.
I propose that Apple should look into providing both solutions, a sub $200 connection device as well as a $499 ~ $999 entertainment hub that could operate independent of, or in conjunction with, the PC whether Apple or Wintel.
Originally posted by Programmer
If Sorenson is specifically what you want then ask them to support it. If they decide there is enough content out there to warrant it, they just might do it.
hmmm, there's an thought.
Originally posted by Programmer
Perhaps what you ought to do is buy a FireWire-based MPEG-2 encoder and have your Mac play your movies TO and FROM that device in order to transcode them.
hehe - a crazy enough idea I might just do it! ::Grin:: I am eyeballing the EyeTV 200 and moving to mpeg-2 encoding rather than the DV->Sorenson 2 step process I'm currently using, hmmmmm.
Originally posted by Aphelion
Well yes, as this topic (as I posted it) concerns an inexpensive connection dongle like thingy to stream content to the HiFi and TV via Firewire and optionally WiFi like the Streamium product.
However the topic has been expanded to include a more fully featured iBox (xBox?) to be equipped with a HD and DVD burner to morph it into a TiVo like PVR.
I propose that Apple should look into providing both solutions, a sub $200 connection device as well as a $499 ~ $999 entertainment hub that could operate independent of, or in conjunction with, the PC whether Apple or Wintel.
Yeah, but my point is that the $499-$999 device isn't a particularly interesting one. Better to sell Macs to fill that role. This then becomes a $999 (or less) Mac.
Originally posted by Programmer :
Yeah, but my point is that the $499-$999 device isn't a particularly interesting one. Better to sell Macs to fill that role. This then becomes a $999 (or less) Mac.
OK then, how about a Media Mac / Digital Hub?
Cool, thin, HiFi component styling and dimensions. Fits in your component stack. Low power, low cost, low heat CPU (a GHz G4 would be plenty). input/output connect-ability for any conceivable combination of audio/TV devices plus the standard Mac ports and of course space for an Airport card. OSX for TV interface with Apple designed remote.
$499 ~ DVD CD/burner combo drive w/ 80 GB HD
$699 ~ Superdrive w/ 100 GB HD & TV tuner
$999 ~ Superdrive w/ 250 GB HD & HDTV tuner
Add on extras could be Nintendo Game Cube module , wireless keyboard and mouse, portable wireless display2go kind of thing for another 600 or 700 bucks. Use your imagination here.
Just winging it, so some adjustment to the details (the devil made me do it) can be made if you like.
Originally posted by Aphelion
OK then, how about a Media Mac / Digital Hub?
Why keep inventing things over and over? The Mac is a perfect hub, and the world is going to filled with cheap media players that links with Mac. EyeHome is just the beginning (or just one of them but happened to work with EyeTV). Check out Neuston MC500 at http://www.neuston.com/en/mc500.asp.
Apple design and engineering has proven, to me at least, that they can build a device that incorporates the ease of use and simplicity of the iPod, while providing unparalleled functionality.
I have a TiVo ~ I just want more.
BIC
We want:
1) PVR
2) Media offload to, and streaming from, another networked data storage unit
3) Silent, small, minimalist
4) inexpensive
EyeHome gets you 2, 3 & 4, a computer with an EyeTV gets you 1 and 4, a laptop with an EyeTVish gets you 1 & 2 (and somewhat 3), a Tivo gets you 1, 3 & 4.
The closest I've come is my retired Pismo plus a PVR box, but it's not exactly streamlined. I'm considering making a custom case for it and the PVR box I end up buying (EyeTV, Miglia's rumored box, Studio TVR, etc), with a silent fan to help with cooling.
Strangely enough, the biggest *practical* problem I've run into is that my office doesn't have a cable jack... so I either have to have a tower (loud, bulky, inelegant) in my living room, or have a standalone PVR that I can't get files off of easily. Bleah.
Things are moving towards this convergence, but there are still issues... for a media playback device that accesses files elsewhere, you need to make sure you can update the codec suite from time to time. Consumer electronics companies are just starting to make this sort of thing available on a regular basis. Also, what wrapper file formats? If Sony, say, signs a deal with MS to only use WMP formats, then what about your QT files? Or if Apple comes out with a QuickTime box, what about those AVI files that QT pukes on? We need choice, which generally means the ability to run new apps. Which means a pretty hefty requirement for a consumer electronics appliance, but fairly simple ones for a computer. Hence, my Pismo approach. Still, could be a lot cheaper...
Originally posted by Aphelion
Apple design and engineering has proven, to me at least, that they can build a device that incorporates the ease of use and simplicity of the iPod, while providing unparalleled functionality.
I have a TiVo ~ I just want more.
BIC
Honestly I think Apple should at this moment, perfect its iPod strategy (and yes, introduce an iPhoto compatible iPod), and not to compete with Apple friendly companies like Elgato.
vs. THIS:
Don't you get?
Originally posted by Aphelion
OK then, how about a Media Mac / Digital Hub?
Cool, thin, HiFi component styling and dimensions. Fits in your component stack. Low power, low cost, low heat CPU (a GHz G4 would be plenty). input/output connect-ability for any conceivable combination of audio/TV devices plus the standard Mac ports and of course space for an Airport card. OSX for TV interface with Apple designed remote.
Why this obsession with putting a computer into your HiFi stack? The big hot processor box should go into a space suited for it (an office or closet), not into your living space where your entertainment system is. All that needs to be there is the interface.
The problem is that nothing short of a full-blown computer *as of now* meets all the requirements I listed above.
I definitely think that it's just out of reach at the moment, not technologically, but from a usability standpoint.
Originally posted by Kickaha :
We want:
1) PVR
2) Media offload to, and streaming from, another networked data storage unit
3) Silent, small, minimalist
4) inexpensive
EyeHome gets you 2, 3 & 4, a computer with an EyeTV gets you 1 and 4, a laptop with an EyeTVish gets you 1 & 2 (and somewhat 3), a Tivo gets you 1, 3 & 4.
The closest I've come is my retired Pismo plus a PVR box, but it's not exactly streamlined...
Now if you could just get that Pismo in the PVR box ...
TiVo seems to have added #2 on your list. TiVo Unveils New Products at CES
The San Jose, California-based company, whose service enables users to pause and replay live TV, said new products featuring it include DVD recorders manufactured by consumer electronics makers Humax and Toshiba; a high-definition DVRs for satellite TV users; and home networking products.
TiVo also unveiled TiVo-to-Go, which lets users who also subscribe to an additional TiVo home networking service to transfer shows they have recorded on the set-top box to a home computer. The system is kept secure by a unique key-sized memory device that must be plugged into the computer when the recorded content is watched or copied.
So progress marches on, and Eugene, my car analogy was directed to eyeTV vs, an Apple designed solution. My "TiVo" is a Sony licensed version, and looks pretty good in my AV stack, plus the Sony remote is nicer than the TiVo "peanut".
Originally posted by Programmer :
Why this obsession with putting a computer into your HiFi stack? The big hot processor box should go into a space suited for it (an office or closet), not into your living space where your entertainment system is. All that needs to be there is the interface.
The Sony TiVo is a Linux based computer running (24/7) in my HiFi stack right now. And as a matter of fact it used to be in my office, which is just off the living room. I controlled it from the living room by a pretty slick Radio Shack remote "repeater" which consists of two small pyramid shaped boxes that relays the IR signal to the office by radio. Since this cool little gadget would work in a closet, since, unlike IR signals, it works through walls, something your average IR remote control has difficulty with.
Obsession? Possibly, but I like Apple design and engineering. I also see this type of device as the next "outside the box" mega hit for Apple should they choose to go there. I want it for myself, but even more I want it for my AAPL stock holdings. As TiVo comes closer to what I see as the perfect set-top box maybe Apple should just purchase them outright. Some of he 4.5 billion Apple has accumulated would be well spent here.
Originally posted by Aphelion
Obsession? Possibly, but I like Apple design and engineering. I also see this type of device as the next "outside the box" mega hit for Apple should they choose to go there. I want it for myself, but even more I want it for my AAPL stock holdings. As TiVo comes closer to what I see as the perfect set-top box maybe Apple should just purchase them outright. Some of he 4.5 billion Apple has accumulated would be well spent here.
Putting computers into small quiet boxes that can fit in the living room increases their cost, limits their flexibility, and puts demands on their aesthetics. My point remains that this box should be hidden away where it can be as cheap, functional and flexible as possible. This lets you add hard disks, interface boards, memory, etc without any troubles.
Originally posted by Programmer :
... My point remains that this box should be hidden away where it can be as cheap, functional and flexible as possible. This lets you add hard disks, interface boards, memory, etc without any troubles.
My counterpoint is that this type of device's target audience is the 200,000,000 consumers (here in America) that buy cool looking things to ad to the HiFi and TV "stacks" that they currently use to listen to music and watch TV from their living room.
I picked the Sony TiVo because the box and remote control looked cooler than the standard TiVo unit, and it matched my "stack" nicely with a Sony TV and a Samsung DVD/VCR player/recorder.
Of course the Mac user in me would like to have an Xserver like device in a standard rack a closeted away somewhere in the house. Of course even if every Apple user in existence bought one of these it wouldn't have a fraction of the sales of a consumer centric product would have.
We'll just have to disagree as to what the better strategy for a new Apple digital hub product is. I will say that I just hope they come out with something in this area., and when they do I'll be satisfied that, if not specifically what I would have liked to see, at least they have addressed the "missing spoke" to their digital hub".
I'll buy one either way.