A thread about Brazil fingerprinting US citizens
Okiedokie. Sorry to add to the Bushbashing threads but I'm surprised that this hasn't been broached yet.
The facts, in a nutshell: on arrival in the US, from January the 1st the citizens of all countries not participating in the Visa Waiver scheme (EU countries, basically, and Canada) now have to have their photographs and their fingerprints taken when they present their passports.
This has proved unpopular with the governments of many other countries, particularly South American states. Brazil has responded by fingerprinting and photographing US citizens, which has led to nine-hour queues for US citizens arriving there. The US has protested.
Is Brazil right to do this? Is America right to do what it's done? Are Americans on this board alright with the image that this policy might present of their country abroad?
The facts, in a nutshell: on arrival in the US, from January the 1st the citizens of all countries not participating in the Visa Waiver scheme (EU countries, basically, and Canada) now have to have their photographs and their fingerprints taken when they present their passports.
This has proved unpopular with the governments of many other countries, particularly South American states. Brazil has responded by fingerprinting and photographing US citizens, which has led to nine-hour queues for US citizens arriving there. The US has protested.
Is Brazil right to do this? Is America right to do what it's done? Are Americans on this board alright with the image that this policy might present of their country abroad?
Comments
Another issue is that this is distancing US even more from the open society idea that is the essense of how the west percieve itself. To ensure the freedom of the people we have to limit their freedom and all that...
US should strive towards a condition where ordinary people could have lunch at the lawn in front of the white house.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Okiedokie. Sorry to add to the Bushbashing threads but I'm surprised that this hasn't been broached yet.
The facts, in a nutshell: on arrival in the US, from January the 1st the citizens of all countries not participating in the Visa Waiver scheme (EU countries, basically, and Canada) now have to have their photographs and their fingerprints taken when they present their passports.
This has proved unpopular with the governments of many other countries, particularly South American states. Brazil has responded by fingerprinting and photographing US citizens, which has led to nine-hour queues for US citizens arriving there. The US has protested.
Is Brazil right to do this? Is America right to do what it's done? Are Americans on this board alright with the image that this policy might present of their country abroad?
What brazil did was funny (not for the US passengers waiting 9 hours), but stupid.
US make this law (we can discuss of the utility of this law, but it's an another debate) in order to increase safety. EU and Canada are participating in the Visa Waiver scheme, brazil not. So it's not because of a specific nationality that someone has to comply with this directive, but because he lack the secured passport.
Brazil did the fingerprinting system, not for security reasons (they will throw away the fingerprint in a garbage), but for retaliations.
here please put your thumb here please...
OK... now we got that out of the way Post Away!
Hassan? Anders? where did you guys go??
Fellowship
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Hassan? Anders? where did you guys go??
Fellowship
Well since we are friendly terrorists from friendly countries we don´t have to stand in line. We can get in and do our deeds with a waiting time of less than five minutes (or we get a free cheese burger).
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Okiedokie. Sorry to add to the Bushbashing threads
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If Brazil wants to retaliate, fine. It just shows how juvenile the leaders are and what big chips they have on their shoulders. No problem. When they have 3,000 people murdered and buildings incinerated, maybe they will understand the concerns of the US.
Those Americans flying to Brazil are either business people who 'would' have invested money there, or tourists who will probably never return, after being made to wait nine hours for a childish show of pique. Brazil has every right to do what they want. If that's the kind of mentality they want to show to the world, fine. Fingerprinting and photographing Americans is fine. No one would object to that. But making them wait nine hours is childish.
In the US, it will be even better when the "exit" feature is added in, so that it will be easy to see who has over-stayed their visas. I'm all for it.
Originally posted by Carol A
I think fingerprinting and photographing are great ideas.
Why? No rhetoric please, just ideas.
no biggie...we do it, they do it...welcome to the future
now bend over as we take a .......
g
Originally posted by thegelding
actually it might be a good idea everywhere....terrorism is a fairly small problem...nasty but rare...but rape and murder and theft are all very common...so brazil may well catch some americans who go to their country and commit crimes...
no biggie...we do it, they do it...welcome to the future
now bend over as we take a .......
g
Hi Gelding - I have nothing to hide, so this stuff doesn't bother me during a time of war.
To renew my teaching certificate in my state, I (and everyone else) had to be fingerprinted and subjected to an FBI background check. Apparently I'm "good to go!" heh heh.
I have an FBI clearance card somewhere. I never can seem to find the damn thing...mainly because I don't see a need to carry it in my wallet, so it is floating around the house somewhere.
I am a registered Democrat, but I fully support any measures in the war on terror. I wanna catch these sucka's once and for all.
I just cannot get over that these terrorists and their supporters are spending all the time and money they have over the last decade, plotting to destroy the US, when all that time, money and effort could have gone into improving the lives of the ME masses. They (terrorists and their supporters) truly all belong in a psycho ward. I can hardly wait until we nail down some really good alternative energy sources. We would have already had them by now; but I feel sure the oil companies have been buying up the patents of any promising energy technologies for the last two or three decades, to put them on a shelf to moulder away, so they could still rake in their oil profits. Can't wait to get every last American out of Saudi, and to be able to tell the Saudis to take their oil and shove it. See how they like losing their biggest market. What idiots.
Originally posted by bunge
Why? No rhetoric please, just ideas.
She did say why. Didn't you bother to read the rest of the post?
Originally posted by Scott
She did say why. Didn't you bother to read the rest of the post?
No, s/he said 'tough!', but that's not very informative. 'We need to know who's in our country?' As if anyone who doesn't want to be tracked is going to arrive in a way that gets them fingerprinted?
Without rhetoric, how does fingerprinting help? It doesn't.
Originally posted by bunge
Without rhetoric, how does fingerprinting help? It doesn't.
So only if the border police is giving you a patriotic speech while taking your prints is there an idea to it?
Originally posted by bunge
No, s/he said 'tough!', but that's not very informative. 'We need to know who's in our country?' As if anyone who doesn't want to be tracked is going to arrive in a way that gets them fingerprinted?
Without rhetoric, how does fingerprinting help? It doesn't.
ok.
I made it really simple for you: Papers can be easily forged by criminals for a false alias. Fingerprints are unique. So not so easy to acquire a false alias.
Originally posted by Blue Shift
ok.
I made it really simple for you: Papers can be easily forged by criminals for a false alias. Fingerprints are unique. So not so easy to acquire a false alias.
What prints were left on the planes that crashed into the Pentagon?
Originally posted by bunge
Brazil gets my thums up! I think the fingerprinting is a bureaucratic waste that doesn't in any way help us be safer. My hope is that Brazil retaliating in this way will help the U.S. realize how big of a waste it is.
I personally have my doubts as to the effectiveness of finger printing visiters. However, done correctly it does that the potential to assist law enforcement or immigration agencies track leads where visiters are involved. To write it off outright as absolutaly useless is a bit rash. Should every security measure taken have to be able to show that it would have prevented 9/11 in order to be accepted? Of course not. Ideas have to be tried, steps have to be taken.
As far a Brazil's actions, they are simply showing how immature their leaders are. They don't like that their nationals are being subjected to finger printing in the US, so they immplement a measure that can and will only piss off American visiters and investers. Great plan.
Originally posted by Tulkas
I personally have my doubts as to the effectiveness of finger printing visiters. However, done correctly it does that the potential to assist law enforcement or immigration agencies track leads where visiters are involved. To write it off outright as absolutaly useless is a bit rash. Should every security measure taken have to be able to show that it would have prevented 9/11 in order to be accepted? Of course not. Ideas have to be tried, steps have to be taken.
Consider the ROI. Nearly zero I would imagine.
Originally posted by bunge
What prints were left on the planes that crashed into the Pentagon?
The thing is, once we get their (terrorists and sleeper cell members) fingerprints, they'll be able to use any fake identities and passports they want, and it won't matter; because a "hit" will come up on the computer as soon as their finger touches the scanner.
IIRC, foreign students will now be tracked in a similar manner as visa holders. Also, iirc, the universities are now required to keep track of foreign student enrollment and attendance in classes, so they can't melt away into the general population with no one being the wiser.
We will continue to tie up loose ends, and eventually it will pay off. We may never even know the events and actions that have been circumvented. One thing is for sure: doing 'nothing' is NOT one of the options.