"$477 billion budget deficit this year"

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
The CBO has chimed in:



"If President Bush succeeds in making his 2001 and 2003 tax cuts permanent, the deficit could reach nearly $3.5 trillion over the next decade, with the tax cuts alone costing the Treasury $295 billion a year by 2014, CBO said.





Even without that change, the government's long-term finances have worsened considerably in the past six months, largely due to the war in Iraq and passage of the $400 billion law adding a prescription drug benefit to Medicare. In August, congressional forecasters predicted a 10-year deficit of $1.4 trillion through 2013. That figure has jumped nearly a trillion dollars since then. "



Read more here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?nav=hptop_tb



so...Will the deficit be a serious issue in the campaign? Or is Cheney right that Reagan taught us "deficits don't matter"?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    so...Will the deficit be a serious issue in the campaign? Or is Cheney right that Reagan taught us "deficits don't matter"?



    but this deficit follows one hell of a non-deficit time in american history. i mean, americans have short attention spans, but not THAT short...



    what was i talking about again???



  • Reply 2 of 29
    chu_bakkachu_bakka Posts: 1,793member
    So far polls are showing that he's weak on the economy and jobs... and strong on natinal security...



    and it so happens that that's the order of importance to voters this time around...



    1. The economy

    2. Jobs



    4 or 5. National Security and Iraq



    Also in a recent poll it had Kerry beating BUsh 50 to 49.
  • Reply 3 of 29
    it's feeling like the administration is going to get a free ride, cause of the war on terror, and the iraq war too. but departments that have nothing to do with either of the aforementioned are running with budget increases.

    it will be an issue if whatever democrat that gets nominated can make it one. it will also depend on the economy this summer and fall.



    the deficit turned around so quickly during the econonomic boom of the clinton administration, that people who claim that the sky is falling because of the deficit may not get heard by ordinary citizens because frankly they've heard it before and it turned out to be "no big deal."
  • Reply 4 of 29
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar

    it's feeling like the administration is going to get a free ride, cause of the war on terror, and the iraq war too. but departments that have nothing to do with either of the aforementioned are running with budget increases.

    it will be an issue if whatever democrat that gets nominated can make it one. it will also depend on the economy this summer and fall.



    the deficit turned around so quickly during the econonomic boom of the clinton administration, that people who claim that the sky is falling because of the deficit may not get heard by ordinary citizens because frankly they've heard it before and it turned out to be "no big deal."




    yup. And it only took a big tax hike on the rich to make that deficit go away....
  • Reply 5 of 29
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Better to have high taxes on the rich than a huge deficit. Better to have a more efficient government than either of those.
  • Reply 6 of 29
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Better to have high taxes on the rich than a huge deficit. Better to have a more efficient government than either of those.



    Indeed. I would argue, though, that while most folks complain about taxes, they'd rather not deal with the consequences of slimming (I know you said "more efficient"...I'm just riffing off your point) the gov't, which would certainly entail either cuts in services or a shifting of the tax burden to the local level.



    Cheers

    Scott
  • Reply 7 of 29
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,027member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by chu_bakka

    So far polls are showing that he's weak on the economy and jobs... and strong on natinal security...



    and it so happens that that's the order of importance to voters this time around...



    1. The economy

    2. Jobs



    4 or 5. National Security and Iraq



    Also in a recent poll it had Kerry beating BUsh 50 to 49.




    Dude, you're a real piece of work.
  • Reply 8 of 29
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Dude, you're a real piece of work.



    Read the Jon's announcement at the top of the page.
  • Reply 9 of 29
    brbr Posts: 8,395member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    Indeed. I would argue, though, that while most folks complain about taxes, they'd rather not deal with the consequences of slimming (I know you said "more efficient"...I'm just riffing off your point) the gov't, which would certainly entail either cuts in services or a shifting of the tax burden to the local level.



    Cheers

    Scott




    Consolidation of parallel programs and reduction of government waste would not result in any loss of programs and a huge reduction of expenses.
  • Reply 10 of 29
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    "Waste reduction" ain't gonna do it. If you want to do it by cutting spending, you've got to go for at least one of the biggies: Health care, Social Security, military, and interest on the debt. Anything else just isn't gonna make a dent.
  • Reply 11 of 29
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    "Waste reduction" ain't gonna do it. If you want to do it by cutting spending, you've got to go for at least one of the biggies: Health care, Social Security, military, and interest on the debt. Anything else just isn't gonna make a dent.



    Right. Interstate highways. Medicare. Medicaid. Cut the size of the military in half (i.e. CLOSE SOME OF THE DAMNED BASES)...and thereby destroy the economy in some towns.
  • Reply 12 of 29
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by groverat

    Better to have high taxes on the rich than a huge deficit. Better to have a more efficient government than either of those.



    Actually, I understand that the long-term plan is to increase the taxes on the poor and lower middle class and to decrease what is left of services that benefit them.
  • Reply 13 of 29
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    actually i'm a huge fan of shifting taxes to a local level. at least when you're paying out locally, you have a snowball's chance in hell of following where the money went.



    send your taxes off to Washington and you can kiss them goodbye.



    as for the "TAX THE RICH" mentality, that's why the middle class and poor are paying income taxes today. smooth move.
  • Reply 14 of 29
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    "Waste reduction" ain't gonna do it. If you want to do it by cutting spending, you've got to go for at least one of the biggies: Health care, Social Security, military, and interest on the debt. Anything else just isn't gonna make a dent.



    This is true. The most amazing thing about all the "tax cuts did this folks." Is that the tax cuts aren't even fully into effect yet and count for (if I recall correctly) something like 100 billion or so of the deficit.



    I would be glad to suggest that tax cuts remain temporary and move back to their previous level after expiring if the left would be glad to suggest some serious cuts on some of these biggies.



    (mzz...mzzz.mzzz...) Huh? What do you mean I'm not a legislator and have no f*cking power over this?!?!



    Nick
  • Reply 15 of 29
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BRussell

    "Waste reduction" ain't gonna do it. If you want to do it by cutting spending, you've got to go for at least one of the biggies: Health care, Social Security, military, and interest on the debt. Anything else just isn't gonna make a dent.



    Exactly correct. Pretty much every government in memory has pledged to reduce waste. While it is a worthwhile aim - and an ongoing effort - it is not an immediate or large source of funds.
  • Reply 16 of 29
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    actually i'm a huge fan of shifting taxes to a local level. at least when you're paying out locally, you have a snowball's chance in hell of following where the money went.



    send your taxes off to Washington and you can kiss them goodbye.



    as for the "TAX THE RICH" mentality, that's why the middle class and poor are paying income taxes today. smooth move.




    Shifting taxes to the local level is, I believe, a terrible idea. All you need to do is look at the economy of a small town in somewhere like Oklahoma to see the tremendous benefit of collecting money from all over the country and redistributing it where it's needed.



    Cheers

    Scott
  • Reply 17 of 29
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    This is true. The most amazing thing about all the "tax cuts did this folks." Is that the tax cuts aren't even fully into effect yet and count for (if I recall correctly) something like 100 billion or so of the deficit.



    I would be glad to suggest that tax cuts remain temporary and move back to their previous level after expiring if the left would be glad to suggest some serious cuts on some of these biggies.



    (mzz...mzzz.mzzz...) Huh? What do you mean I'm not a legislator and have no f*cking power over this?!?!



    Nick




    True enough. The deficit is also caused by the prolonged economic slowdown and also by the spending of the current government, which needless to say, has not been on liberal priorities. I had seen figures more along the lines of $200 billion of the amount was due to the cuts, but I am not sure that I am recalling correctly either.



    The future tax cuts are, however, factored into future deficit predictions - and the future does not look good. As I argued with trumpetman some months ago, all of this means that taxes will have to go up. That's what happened after the Reagan mistake, that's what will happen after the George W. mistake. Probably George W. will not do this himself - so we are looking to the next President in '05...or '09 to clean up the mess of the current bunch of jokers.
  • Reply 18 of 29
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    I thought that it would be a good idea to get a better idea of the actual numbers and the causes. Here is a good site describing the relative proportion of the U.S. deficit caused by each of the factors. It is a bit dated - based on projections of about 6 months ago - but likely is still pretty much applicable. The estimate here is actually about 300 billion of the deficit is due to the tax cuts. (N.B., it is based on projections that, even with the recession, the budget would be in surplus absent the legislative initiatives of the Bush administration on spending and tax cuts - and then estimates the cost of each of the initiatives.)



    Here is the linked chart, for those that like to see these things visually:







    The chart is interesting, but the underlying numbers and analysis of the link itself are even more worth a read, for those who want to take the time.
  • Reply 19 of 29
    dmzdmz Posts: 5,775member
    this interesting....check the percent of GDP to National Debt, (not to be confused with the budget deficit.)



  • Reply 20 of 29
    chinneychinney Posts: 1,019member
    Your debt chart appears to end in 2000. I am not sure that it helps very much with the analysis of what has happened since GWB arrived in office. It is useful to get a picture of what was happening before.
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