[quote]FWIW, it seems to me that the Gamecube's raw specs are actually relatively modest. Tom's hardware cites a polygon rate of 6-12M/s<hr></blockquote>
That article is hideous. (See some of the better gaming developer forums for rants on the topic.) Totally ignore it.
As for the 6-12M/s numbers, which do come from Nintendo, that's "6-12M/s" an estimated "real world gameplay" number with 8 simultaneous textures/maps per polygon, 4 hardware lights, game AI, audio processing, game logic, etc. And actual games have already seen better performance than that (e.g. Rogue Leader).
To compare those numbers with other vendor's "theoretical max" numbers for flat, unshaded polygons with nothing else going (no audio, no game logic, etc.) on is pointless. "Theoretical max" is nearly meaningless. The real world is very different. Again, just look at Rogue Leader, where you have 100+ ~15,000 polygon ships on the screen, each with its own pilot AI, plus two 130,000+ polygon star destroyers, all with 4-8 textures/maps per polygon, plus music, 5-channel sound effects, etc., all running at 60fps. You do the math
It doesn't bother me at all to have game compatible hardware. I just see consoles eventually overtaking the games market. You won't buy a PC or a mac to play the latest and greatest. Even M$ decided that the console market was more lucrative and has moved in that direction. I don't think they would have if they thought that the PC would be the future gaming platform of choice. If a third party wants to work out an emulation scheme, great! But this is not for Apple to waste it's time on.
BTW, what's to stop a drive from reading the disc in the opposite direction? Maybe it could be done in a computer's DVD drive regardless. Could an emulator not read the entire disc out of order, and assemble a proper ROM image on the HDD? Essentially ripping the ROM to a protected (for copyright reasons) region of the hard-disk and then play the game from there through the emulator. the disc stays in the drive only to verify that you indeed have a legit copy of the disc? Any commercial venture would need such a feature to keep Nintendo's legal rights protected. If, OTOH a special drive is required, then there is absolutely no point trying to have Gamecube emulated. The drive would easily add a hundred to the cost of the package. Not worth it anymore. We'll have to see what kind of drive Matsushita uses in their DVD version. Will it spin in two directions, or will it spin like a conventional DVD yet have some kind of software/firmware that allows it to re-order the info in the proper sequence?
Whilst the game is in full swing press ctrl+F8 (I think) to get the frame rate info up on screen. On my TiBook I managed to get about 200,000 polygons a sec at 640x480. (I'd be interested to see what anyone else gets!)
Lets say that a brand new iMac2 can manage 10 times that polygon count, that still leaves it way, way short of 6-12 millions.
c] iMac2 is rumored to be geforce2</strong><hr></blockquote>
a] So's Microsoft, perhaps will be running windoes XP on our Macs
b] ppc is a very broad catagory & it's only one of many chips that would need to be emulated
c] considering that the Xbox has a Geforce 3 equivellent graphics card & the GameCube has approx as much video power as the Xbox, that would put it's graphic chip around a Geforce 3, meaning the Geforce 2 in the iMac would be outclased.
Here's an additional one. Has anyone looked at a Nintendo Game Cube disk? It's a 3.5" minidisc, wouldn't work with a slot loading iMac (assuming they keep it slot loading).
Additionally, regarding the graphics, you'd probably want to play at a higher rez then the TV res that the cube uses (which would put even more strain on the vid card).
I'm sure oneday we'll be running NGC games on our macs (like all older consoles), just not today (or the next couple of years), & it probably won't sanctioned by Nintendo.
You are adding the capabilities of a $200 console to a niche market.
Adding this feature would have to be financially advantageous. If this add-on costs over $200, forget it. And there's no way it would cost under $200. You'd need to add the controller ports, expansion bays, revert to tray loading optical media drives (or create some kind of wafer/adapter.)
You'd also be limiting your graphics options. Power Macs currently use nVidia graphics for example.
And yes, NIntendo's 6-12 mpoly/s estimate is for actual in-game performance, with multiple texture passes, pixel shading, AA, etc.
I got a gamecube the day they came out. I just finished tony hawk 3(yes with everyone, plus I got at least a million points on every stage)
I should have got rogue leader, I passed it up cause the first one was fun for like a little while but then got really frustrating and hard and poopie, now I hear that rogue leader is top dog. oh well luigis mansion was a surprise didn't think it was going to good at all, and waverace is basically the same as the 64 version but this one looks alot better.
I think its a great Idea to have an internal drive that could read ps2 discs or x-box discs or gamecube mini-discs(these things are TINY, I feel Like they aren't even real games when I hold them)but then again a major factor of console gaming is, gaming without the hassle of a computer(beit macos or windows, its still easier to just pop a game in and play with a controller on your big screen tv)
I've always Liked console gaming, been a nintendo person(though I miss final fantasy)
I'm actually getting a psx soon just for final fantasy IX and FF tactics. Computer gaming is nice because you have patches and updates and all that downloadables, but at the same time it makes you woner if the reason games on computers tend to need patches and stuff is because they were developed on computers for computers(i.e. the programmers thought, oh we can fix this later, just release it now)
the gamecube has 2 serial ports and a "high-speed" port on the bottom, plus there are 3 little holes that slightly resemble 1/8 inch audio inputs, I hope that with these ports they put out some bitchin expansions
Comments
That article is hideous. (See some of the better gaming developer forums for rants on the topic.) Totally ignore it.
As for the 6-12M/s numbers, which do come from Nintendo, that's "6-12M/s" an estimated "real world gameplay" number with 8 simultaneous textures/maps per polygon, 4 hardware lights, game AI, audio processing, game logic, etc. And actual games have already seen better performance than that (e.g. Rogue Leader).
To compare those numbers with other vendor's "theoretical max" numbers for flat, unshaded polygons with nothing else going (no audio, no game logic, etc.) on is pointless. "Theoretical max" is nearly meaningless. The real world is very different. Again, just look at Rogue Leader, where you have 100+ ~15,000 polygon ships on the screen, each with its own pilot AI, plus two 130,000+ polygon star destroyers, all with 4-8 textures/maps per polygon, plus music, 5-channel sound effects, etc., all running at 60fps. You do the math
BTW, what's to stop a drive from reading the disc in the opposite direction? Maybe it could be done in a computer's DVD drive regardless. Could an emulator not read the entire disc out of order, and assemble a proper ROM image on the HDD? Essentially ripping the ROM to a protected (for copyright reasons) region of the hard-disk and then play the game from there through the emulator. the disc stays in the drive only to verify that you indeed have a legit copy of the disc? Any commercial venture would need such a feature to keep Nintendo's legal rights protected. If, OTOH a special drive is required, then there is absolutely no point trying to have Gamecube emulated. The drive would easily add a hundred to the cost of the package. Not worth it anymore. We'll have to see what kind of drive Matsushita uses in their DVD version. Will it spin in two directions, or will it spin like a conventional DVD yet have some kind of software/firmware that allows it to re-order the info in the proper sequence?
Thanks for the info. That lightbulb above the head has finally flickered to life.
Matsu:
This is an intriguing suggestion. As you said, it will be interesting to see Matsushita's solution.
Whilst the game is in full swing press ctrl+F8 (I think) to get the frame rate info up on screen. On my TiBook I managed to get about 200,000 polygons a sec at 640x480. (I'd be interested to see what anyone else gets!)
Lets say that a brand new iMac2 can manage 10 times that polygon count, that still leaves it way, way short of 6-12 millions.
a] nintento is licencing gamecube technology
b] both use ppc
c] iMac2 is rumored to be geforce2
<strong>it could be done, since:
a] nintento is licencing gamecube technology
b] both use ppc
c] iMac2 is rumored to be geforce2</strong><hr></blockquote>
a] So's Microsoft, perhaps will be running windoes XP on our Macs
b] ppc is a very broad catagory & it's only one of many chips that would need to be emulated
c] considering that the Xbox has a Geforce 3 equivellent graphics card & the GameCube has approx as much video power as the Xbox, that would put it's graphic chip around a Geforce 3, meaning the Geforce 2 in the iMac would be outclased.
Here's an additional one. Has anyone looked at a Nintendo Game Cube disk? It's a 3.5" minidisc, wouldn't work with a slot loading iMac (assuming they keep it slot loading).
Additionally, regarding the graphics, you'd probably want to play at a higher rez then the TV res that the cube uses (which would put even more strain on the vid card).
I'm sure oneday we'll be running NGC games on our macs (like all older consoles), just not today (or the next couple of years), & it probably won't sanctioned by Nintendo.
The problem is price.
You are adding the capabilities of a $200 console to a niche market.
Adding this feature would have to be financially advantageous. If this add-on costs over $200, forget it. And there's no way it would cost under $200. You'd need to add the controller ports, expansion bays, revert to tray loading optical media drives (or create some kind of wafer/adapter.)
You'd also be limiting your graphics options. Power Macs currently use nVidia graphics for example.
And yes, NIntendo's 6-12 mpoly/s estimate is for actual in-game performance, with multiple texture passes, pixel shading, AA, etc.
I should have got rogue leader, I passed it up cause the first one was fun for like a little while but then got really frustrating and hard and poopie, now I hear that rogue leader is top dog. oh well luigis mansion was a surprise didn't think it was going to good at all, and waverace is basically the same as the 64 version but this one looks alot better.
I think its a great Idea to have an internal drive that could read ps2 discs or x-box discs or gamecube mini-discs(these things are TINY, I feel Like they aren't even real games when I hold them)but then again a major factor of console gaming is, gaming without the hassle of a computer(beit macos or windows, its still easier to just pop a game in and play with a controller on your big screen tv)
I've always Liked console gaming, been a nintendo person(though I miss final fantasy)
I'm actually getting a psx soon just for final fantasy IX and FF tactics. Computer gaming is nice because you have patches and updates and all that downloadables, but at the same time it makes you woner if the reason games on computers tend to need patches and stuff is because they were developed on computers for computers(i.e. the programmers thought, oh we can fix this later, just release it now)
the gamecube has 2 serial ports and a "high-speed" port on the bottom, plus there are 3 little holes that slightly resemble 1/8 inch audio inputs, I hope that with these ports they put out some bitchin expansions
Why not just a <a href="http://macgamecube.com/"; target="_blank">Mac GameCube</a> ?