Although I quoted the second link for an obvious laugh, , I clearly stated I was asking about the first link.
There are no chirping crickets, you're just ignoring what the man said. Franken reacted to being struck pretty violently. Violently. No matter how you try to spin it, that's not grade school playground fun.
Of course, all of this still avoids my original point, that you didn't have an accurate witness to support your claims in the first place.
Your guys got a little continuity problem.
I posted this before and now again... since you are "ignoring what the man said."
Quote:
Ramsey said a news photographer later told him Franken reacted to being elbowed by the protester, who knocked his glasses off.
Even if Franken felt threatened he's still not justified. Franken had the opportunity to go the other way. He approached them. He was looking for a fight. He got one and won. This wasn't no kill or be killed situation.
Franken was wrong. Why can't you liberal apologists just admit it?
You know looking at both Ramsey sets of quotes, this guy saw EVERYTHING. He was on the first floor. He was on the balcony. He was inside the theater and also saw them high five outside the theater.
Of course his words have changed from having the camera tell him Franken reacted, he him SEEING him react while being on the first floor, balcony, inside and outside.
Dean really should have hired Ramsey for security since his is faster than anyone. He saw exactly what both protesters did both inside and outside the building, on two different levels and how they interacted with every person on those two levels.
hmmm... what's this... surprise surprise... a Letter to the NY Post failed to print in it's entirety.
To the editors,
I did not ?body slam? a protester at a Dean rally in Manchester as Vincent Morris wrote. Prior to this totally inaccurate article, Mr. Morris had written two items about me. Both were retracted. (The articles and corrections can be found on Nexis). Mr. Morris made no attempt to reach me before publishing his story. His description: ?Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him to the floor? is a complete fairy tale.
Only after the protester had shoved and elbowed security guards and started to charge the podium, did I help stop the man by grabbing his legs and lifting them off the floor. The man did not hit the ground because others were holding his upper body. He was then removed by the security guards without being hurt. All this can be attested to by New York Times writer Russell Shorto who was observing me for a profile he's writing for their magazine.
I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety.
hmmm... what's this... surprise surprise... a Letter to the NY Post failed to print in it's entirety.
To the editors,
I did not ?body slam? a protester at a Dean rally in Manchester as Vincent Morris wrote. Prior to this totally inaccurate article, Mr. Morris had written two items about me. Both were retracted. (The articles and corrections can be found on Nexis). Mr. Morris made no attempt to reach me before publishing his story. His description: ?Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him to the floor? is a complete fairy tale.
Only after the protester had shoved and elbowed security guards and started to charge the podium, did I help stop the man by grabbing his legs and lifting them off the floor. The man did not hit the ground because others were holding his upper body. He was then removed by the security guards without being hurt. All this can be attested to by New York Times writer Russell Shorto who was observing me for a profile he's writing for their magazine.
I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety.
Before I go on let me say first of all, you are the man!!
I love it when people bring information into discussions. I've been asking for Franken's words on this all along and instead of just inferring about it, you go and find it.
Awesome!
Now of course have to add the rest which is the tape transcript from the Post reporter.
Quote:
Editor's note: Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended:
Q: Why did you decide to throw him out?
A: "I wanted to get him out . . ."
Q: How did you get him down, how did you get him out?
A: "I took his legs out. Yeah!"
Q: So you grabbed his legs, you tackled his legs?
A: "Yeah! I just got down there, and took his legs out."
Q: Once he was on the ground, were you holding him down?
A: "Ahhhh, yeah! He was in the air, he was actually in the air! Ha, ha, ha, ha! That was the point. If he has no contact with the ground, it's hard for him to stay. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!"
Q: So you take his legs out?
A: "Yeah! You take his legs out."
Q: Like a football tackle?
A: "Yeah! Like a wrestling move!"
Q: You a wrestler?
A: I was a wrestler.
Q: Are you a Dean supporter?
A: "No. I'm neutral. But I'm for freedom of speech, which means that people should be allowed to assemble and speak without being shouted down."
Q: So you wouldn't have done it if he didn't keep shouting?
A: "I would have done it if he was a Dean supporter at a Kerry rally."
Q: So anybody else that was making noise?
A: "I would have done it if he was a Kerry supporter. I would have done it if he was a Franken supporter! Ha, ha, ha, ha! I mean I would have done it!"
Q: Did you get hurt other than your glasses?
A: "I didn't get hurt. My glasses got knocked off. I wasn't hurt at all. I should have just taken my glasses off before I did it."
In the NY Post letter section, the Post claims: "Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended." However, this is not true. Morris did not conduct these questions, they were done by other people asking Franken questions at the same time. Morris just stuck his tape recorder in there. This is why there was an expectation that Morris - if he was going to write a story - would conduct his own interview, and not falsely claim to conduct an interview he did not. Also, the NY Post has refused to release the tape of this 'interview.' Further, it's not clear if the 'hahaha's were from Al or the crowd around him. We don't know, because Morris isn't releasing the tape. Still, it is interesting that Al wrote: "I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety" and the NY Post did not.
Here are the two articles in which Morris had major errors:
But you'll support the paper the publishes articles that it eventually has to retract?
The same reporter (Morris) has twice had articles pulled about Franken because Morris LIES in them.
I know it's hard to believe... but the NY Post is garbage.
I'd be very happy to send you off on a quest to find the stories as published, retracted and then corrected.
I'll give them a read and judgement. We can see if the corrections actually change the intent or if they were details like "We regret to inform our readers that the previously mentioned story occured on Wednesday, Not Tuesday and previously published."
All I can add to this about Franken is I saw the complete book release (or whatever it was) with O'Rilley. Franken was an absolute idiot during this. While I do not agree with O'Rilley on many things at least he is a "straight shooter" that shows others respect. All Franken wants is to be heard above all others...if you prove he is wrong (as O'Rilley did) he simply gets louder.
In the NY Post letter section, the Post claims: "Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended." However, this is not true. Morris did not conduct these questions, they were done by other people asking Franken questions at the same time. Morris just stuck his tape recorder in there. This is why there was an expectation that Morris - if he was going to write a story - would conduct his own interview, and not falsely claim to conduct an interview he did not. Also, the NY Post has refused to release the tape of this 'interview.' Further, it's not clear if the 'hahaha's were from Al or the crowd around him. We don't know, because Morris isn't releasing the tape. Still, it is interesting that Al wrote: "I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety" and the NY Post did not.
Here are the two articles in which Morris had major errors:
I wouldn't call those major errors. Especially with regard to the first article. If Franken admitted the basis for the characters, it could become a thorny legal issue. It likely relates to something he wanted kept off the record.
The second one again doesn't sound major. Sounds like Franken wanted to press whether laughing loudly and harshly was truly "heckling" and so the Post conceded it rather than argue it.
Franken told me: "I didn't body-slam anyone to the floor. The Post's story makes me look like a nut, and it has been circulated all over the world by the right-wing echo chamber."
Franken said that Dean aides and security staffers accepted his offer to help subdue the screaming protester after nearly 10 minutes of disruption.
"Three of us grabbed the man's shoulders to restrain him," Franken said. "We tried to pull him back, but he grabbed onto a railing. I then drew on my experience as a mediocre high-school wrestler to suggest we lift the man's legs off the floor [so that he] could be safely taken away. ... There was no danger that he would fall to the floor."
and I almost forgot! Al's spoken word album won a Grammy.
O'Reilly = No Awards
Franken = a Grammy (not sure how many awards he's won in all)
Franken told me: "I didn't body-slam anyone to the floor. The Post's story makes me look like a nut, and it has been circulated all over the world by the right-wing echo chamber."
Franken said that Dean aides and security staffers accepted his offer to help subdue the screaming protester after nearly 10 minutes of disruption.
"Three of us grabbed the man's shoulders to restrain him," Franken said. "We tried to pull him back, but he grabbed onto a railing. I then drew on my experience as a mediocre high-school wrestler to suggest we lift the man's legs off the floor [so that he] could be safely taken away. ... There was no danger that he would fall to the floor."
and I almost forgot! Al's spoken word album won a Grammy.
O'Reilly = No Awards
Franken = a Grammy (not sure how many awards he's won in all)
I'm supposed to take the word of a gossip page?
I am very glad Franken is speaking for himself now. Though I do see they are still dragging around that theater manager like a door stop.
And Al, congrats on the Grammy. In the future if you are going to grab legs or booties, let it be Beyonce.
Comments
Originally posted by bunge
Although I quoted the second link for an obvious laugh,
There are no chirping crickets, you're just ignoring what the man said. Franken reacted to being struck pretty violently. Violently. No matter how you try to spin it, that's not grade school playground fun.
Of course, all of this still avoids my original point, that you didn't have an accurate witness to support your claims in the first place.
Your guys got a little continuity problem.
I posted this before and now again... since you are "ignoring what the man said."
Ramsey said a news photographer later told him Franken reacted to being elbowed by the protester, who knocked his glasses off.
You call this a witness who supports your claims?
Sad.....
Nick
Franken was wrong. Why can't you liberal apologists just admit it?
Of course his words have changed from having the camera tell him Franken reacted, he him SEEING him react while being on the first floor, balcony, inside and outside.
Dean really should have hired Ramsey for security since his is faster than anyone. He saw exactly what both protesters did both inside and outside the building, on two different levels and how they interacted with every person on those two levels.
This guy is amazing...
Nick
DUH!
Originally posted by Scott
Even if Franken felt threatened he's still not justified.
This isn't true. You are justified if you come to the defence of someone else as well.
I'm all for self defense but that aint what happened here.
Originally posted by Scott
I'm all for self defense but that aint what happened here.
I haven't seen any evidence to support this claim.
To the editors,
I did not ?body slam? a protester at a Dean rally in Manchester as Vincent Morris wrote. Prior to this totally inaccurate article, Mr. Morris had written two items about me. Both were retracted. (The articles and corrections can be found on Nexis). Mr. Morris made no attempt to reach me before publishing his story. His description: ?Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him to the floor? is a complete fairy tale.
Only after the protester had shoved and elbowed security guards and started to charge the podium, did I help stop the man by grabbing his legs and lifting them off the floor. The man did not hit the ground because others were holding his upper body. He was then removed by the security guards without being hurt. All this can be attested to by New York Times writer Russell Shorto who was observing me for a profile he's writing for their magazine.
I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety.
Al Franken
lookeee here!
http://frankenlies.blogspot.com/
I love being right.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
hmmm... what's this... surprise surprise... a Letter to the NY Post failed to print in it's entirety.
To the editors,
I did not ?body slam? a protester at a Dean rally in Manchester as Vincent Morris wrote. Prior to this totally inaccurate article, Mr. Morris had written two items about me. Both were retracted. (The articles and corrections can be found on Nexis). Mr. Morris made no attempt to reach me before publishing his story. His description: ?Franken emerged from the crowd and charged one male protester, grabbing him with a bear hug from behind and slamming him to the floor? is a complete fairy tale.
Only after the protester had shoved and elbowed security guards and started to charge the podium, did I help stop the man by grabbing his legs and lifting them off the floor. The man did not hit the ground because others were holding his upper body. He was then removed by the security guards without being hurt. All this can be attested to by New York Times writer Russell Shorto who was observing me for a profile he's writing for their magazine.
I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety.
Al Franken
lookeee here!
http://frankenlies.blogspot.com/
I love being right.
Chu...
Before I go on let me say first of all, you are the man!!
I love it when people bring information into discussions. I've been asking for Franken's words on this all along and instead of just inferring about it, you go and find it.
Awesome!
Now of course have to add the rest which is the tape transcript from the Post reporter.
Editor's note: Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended:
Q: Why did you decide to throw him out?
A: "I wanted to get him out . . ."
Q: How did you get him down, how did you get him out?
A: "I took his legs out. Yeah!"
Q: So you grabbed his legs, you tackled his legs?
A: "Yeah! I just got down there, and took his legs out."
Q: Once he was on the ground, were you holding him down?
A: "Ahhhh, yeah! He was in the air, he was actually in the air! Ha, ha, ha, ha! That was the point. If he has no contact with the ground, it's hard for him to stay. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!"
Q: So you take his legs out?
A: "Yeah! You take his legs out."
Q: Like a football tackle?
A: "Yeah! Like a wrestling move!"
Q: You a wrestler?
A: I was a wrestler.
Q: Are you a Dean supporter?
A: "No. I'm neutral. But I'm for freedom of speech, which means that people should be allowed to assemble and speak without being shouted down."
Q: So you wouldn't have done it if he didn't keep shouting?
A: "I would have done it if he was a Dean supporter at a Kerry rally."
Q: So anybody else that was making noise?
A: "I would have done it if he was a Kerry supporter. I would have done it if he was a Franken supporter! Ha, ha, ha, ha! I mean I would have done it!"
Q: Did you get hurt other than your glasses?
A: "I didn't get hurt. My glasses got knocked off. I wasn't hurt at all. I should have just taken my glasses off before I did it."
Nick
The same reporter (Morris) has twice had articles pulled about Franken because Morris LIES in them.
I know it's hard to believe... but the NY Post is garbage.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
...the NY Post is garbage.
We covered that on page one of this thread....
Morris is a HACK.
In the NY Post letter section, the Post claims: "Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended." However, this is not true. Morris did not conduct these questions, they were done by other people asking Franken questions at the same time. Morris just stuck his tape recorder in there. This is why there was an expectation that Morris - if he was going to write a story - would conduct his own interview, and not falsely claim to conduct an interview he did not. Also, the NY Post has refused to release the tape of this 'interview.' Further, it's not clear if the 'hahaha's were from Al or the crowd around him. We don't know, because Morris isn't releasing the tape. Still, it is interesting that Al wrote: "I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety" and the NY Post did not.
Here are the two articles in which Morris had major errors:
http://alfrankenweb.com/morrisarticles.html
Originally posted by chu_bakka
But you'll support the paper the publishes articles that it eventually has to retract?
The same reporter (Morris) has twice had articles pulled about Franken because Morris LIES in them.
I know it's hard to believe... but the NY Post is garbage.
I'd be very happy to send you off on a quest to find the stories as published, retracted and then corrected.
I'll give them a read and judgement. We can see if the corrections actually change the intent or if they were details like "We regret to inform our readers that the previously mentioned story occured on Wednesday, Not Tuesday and previously published."
Nick
O'Reilly is a straight shooter... that's a good one.
Next thing you'll say is that he's an independant!
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Ah and you so deftly fall into the trap.
Morris is a HACK.
In the NY Post letter section, the Post claims: "Mr. Morris witnessed the altercation from beginning to end and made no attempt to "reach [Franken] before publishing his story" because it was based in part on the following taped interview Morris conducted with Franken at the Palace Theater in Manchester, N.H., moments after the incident ended." However, this is not true. Morris did not conduct these questions, they were done by other people asking Franken questions at the same time. Morris just stuck his tape recorder in there. This is why there was an expectation that Morris - if he was going to write a story - would conduct his own interview, and not falsely claim to conduct an interview he did not. Also, the NY Post has refused to release the tape of this 'interview.' Further, it's not clear if the 'hahaha's were from Al or the crowd around him. We don't know, because Morris isn't releasing the tape. Still, it is interesting that Al wrote: "I think you have an obligation to set the record straight by publishing this letter in its entirety" and the NY Post did not.
Here are the two articles in which Morris had major errors:
http://alfrankenweb.com/morrisarticles.html
Wow, this dude is fast.
I wouldn't call those major errors. Especially with regard to the first article. If Franken admitted the basis for the characters, it could become a thorny legal issue. It likely relates to something he wanted kept off the record.
The second one again doesn't sound major. Sounds like Franken wanted to press whether laughing loudly and harshly was truly "heckling" and so the Post conceded it rather than argue it.
Nick
and what I remember is that it was Al's turn to speak... and O'Reilly was interrupting and shouting over him.
Who was trying to be louder than who?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/goss...p-142548c.html
Franken told me: "I didn't body-slam anyone to the floor. The Post's story makes me look like a nut, and it has been circulated all over the world by the right-wing echo chamber."
Franken said that Dean aides and security staffers accepted his offer to help subdue the screaming protester after nearly 10 minutes of disruption.
"Three of us grabbed the man's shoulders to restrain him," Franken said. "We tried to pull him back, but he grabbed onto a railing. I then drew on my experience as a mediocre high-school wrestler to suggest we lift the man's legs off the floor [so that he] could be safely taken away. ... There was no danger that he would fall to the floor."
and I almost forgot! Al's spoken word album won a Grammy.
O'Reilly = No Awards
Franken = a Grammy (not sure how many awards he's won in all)
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Just to make sure people are updated on this story...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/goss...p-142548c.html
Franken told me: "I didn't body-slam anyone to the floor. The Post's story makes me look like a nut, and it has been circulated all over the world by the right-wing echo chamber."
Franken said that Dean aides and security staffers accepted his offer to help subdue the screaming protester after nearly 10 minutes of disruption.
"Three of us grabbed the man's shoulders to restrain him," Franken said. "We tried to pull him back, but he grabbed onto a railing. I then drew on my experience as a mediocre high-school wrestler to suggest we lift the man's legs off the floor [so that he] could be safely taken away. ... There was no danger that he would fall to the floor."
and I almost forgot! Al's spoken word album won a Grammy.
O'Reilly = No Awards
Franken = a Grammy (not sure how many awards he's won in all)
I'm supposed to take the word of a gossip page?
I am very glad Franken is speaking for himself now. Though I do see they are still dragging around that theater manager like a door stop.
And Al, congrats on the Grammy. In the future if you are going to grab legs or booties, let it be Beyonce.
Nick