Apple's asinine defaults cost me 1 year of emails.

homhom
Posted:
in Mac Software edited January 2014
Well, I guess because this has to do with Mail.crap it should go into Software.



A little back story. I have a folder set up in Mail.crap for all my AI email notifications and a rule to send them from my inbox into that folder. I usually select all the AI emails and trash them after I have read them all. By accident, I selected all of my inbox and moved it into the trash, then closed my laptop to go to a friends house without realizing that I had moved my inbox to the trash and not the AI folder. I opened up the laptop saw my inbox was empty and freaked. I checked my webmail account and found that the entire inbox there was empty too. I checked my trash and found 12 of the emails that used to be in my inbox.



A little later I checked my preferences to see if anything was screwy and found the reason that all my mail was gone. Mail.crap's default is to erase any email in the trash that is over a week old. I never changed it and now without a warning Mai.crap decided that I didn't really need all those emails.



This is what happens when the HIG are disregarded!
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    How is that disregarding the HIG, exactly?
  • Reply 2 of 34
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    That sucks. Had you backed up your /Library/Mail folder recently?
  • Reply 3 of 34
    I think I see the problem. You've been using Mail.crap when you should have been using Mail.APP.
  • Reply 4 of 34
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jonathan

    How is that disregarding the HIG, exactly?



    Because the default should never be a destructive option and anytime software is going to delete any of your information there should be a warning. This was stuff that Apple worked out 20 years ago.



    And no, I hadn't backed up my email recently, so I am going to lose about 3 months of emails.
  • Reply 5 of 34
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by HOM

    Because the default should never be a destructive option and anytime software is going to delete any of your information there should be a warning. This was stuff that Apple worked out 20 years ago.



    And no, I hadn't backed up my email recently, so I am going to lose about 3 months of emails.




    How was your problem caused by Mail.app's default behavior. You did a lot of work in preparation for your mail's deletion. If you don't want mail deleted, then don't put it in the trash. And if you do, then take responsibility for your own actions.
  • Reply 6 of 34
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    How was your problem caused by Mail.app's default behavior. You did a lot of work in preparation for your mail's deletion. If you don't want mail deleted, then don't put it in the trash. And if you do, then take responsibility for your own actions.



    I see what he is saying. Yes, he had to delete the items. But the default behavior should be some sort of a warning that a destructive action will occur. In Mail.app, there is no warning when putting an item in the trash or when emptying on a schedule. There *is* a warning if you manually delete the messages.



    Personally, I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. I hate excessive dialog boxes but I understand the need for a destructive behavior to give warning (as it does in the case of a manual emptying of the trash). Either way, it sucks to be HOM right now. :/
  • Reply 7 of 34
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I think I see the problem. You've been using Mail.crap when you should have been using Mail.APP.



  • Reply 8 of 34
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    There is an answer, and I'm afraid it is Entourage.
  • Reply 9 of 34
    I think the ultimate lesson learned here is to backup your data.



    Price of lesson: One year's worth of email.



    There is never a good reason why you should lose that much data, because you should be backing up weekly at the least.
  • Reply 10 of 34
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    did you have mail in your inbox that was being stored on the server?
  • Reply 11 of 34
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    The UI answer to these things is easy, allow destructive actions to be undoable. If it is not possible to undo, then you have to confirm the action.



    In this case, mail shouldnt empty the trash automatically.



    However, you can often generalise that when people make mistakes they often realise straight away. Mail should keep a 'secret' ( doesnt show up in the trash ) that allows you to undo an empty trash command.



    The normal finder trash should do this as well.

    But, basically, the whole point of the trashcan IS to be the UNDOABLE middle ground between there, and gone. Automatic trash deletion is wrong.
  • Reply 12 of 34
    I have gobs of email in my hotmail account that I'd like to save and keep, is there any way to do this easily?
  • Reply 13 of 34
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    I think the ultimate lesson learned here is to backup your data.



    Price of lesson: One year's worth of email.



    There is never a good reason why you should lose that much data, because you should be backing up weekly at the least.




    I know. Because it was an IMAP account, I assumed that the mail on the server would act as a back-up. I have had to reinitialize the hard drive and fire up Mail.crap to have all the emails come back. I just had no idea that it would delete them.

    Quote:

    Originally posted by alcimedes

    did you have mail in your inbox that was being stored on the server?



    Yup all the email was stored on the server too, but I guess that when Mail.crap deleted it, it synced up with the server and did the same.



    I do understand that I was a dumb ass for not having a back-up. I did move the emails into the trash by accident and that's why the default behavior should not be destructive. Accidents happen, but the software should not punish me for it. Time to listen to mrmister and move to Entourage.
  • Reply 14 of 34
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    Yes, though Entourage also likes to corrupt its megadatabase every once in a while, so be careful there, too.



    People are jumping on HOM way too quickly--sure, he should have backed up, blah blah blah. But that is a *stupid* default behavior, and as others have said, autodeletion w/o an inicator is bad default behavior.
  • Reply 15 of 34
    Well, I at least agree, it is a stupid default behaviour. I also backup regularly, even mail from my IMAP account. A tape drive is a wonderful investment
  • Reply 16 of 34
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    The default behavior should be to delete something that's been in the trash for a week, not something that's a week old. I thought that's what mail did, so maybe something different happened on your machine.
  • Reply 17 of 34
    homhom Posts: 1,098member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    The default behavior should be to delete something that's been in the trash for a week, not something that's a week old. I thought that's what mail did, so maybe something different happened on your machine.



    The default behavior should never be destructive regardless of how long it has been in the trash. Based on the option, I can't really tell what it is basing the week on.





    Although it has to be mail that is older then 7 days because the mail was only in the trash for about 2 hours and the only messages that survived were ones sent in the last week. Oh, and the check next to "never" is because as soon as I found this feature, I disabled it.
  • Reply 18 of 34
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by LoCash

    I think the ultimate lesson learned here is to backup your data.



    Price of lesson: One year's worth of email.



    There is never a good reason why you should lose that much data, because you should be backing up weekly at the least.




    I dunno I would have thought it is just check the prefs. I mean when I start using any app that's the very first thing I do especially in an email program where you actually have to set up the accounts yourself...
  • Reply 19 of 34
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    it's easy.



    it's saying "delete e-mails in the trash that are over a week old"



    this behavior is common practice because otherwise you end up with users who have a 500MB mailbox on the mail server, of which 400MB is stuff in the trash they never emptied.



    mail.app did exactly what it was supposed to. just like every other mail program that has an option to delete messages stored on the server.
  • Reply 20 of 34
    rraburrabu Posts: 248member
    HOM, you can get all of your email back.



    Pretty much any mail server keeps backups so if you make a request to the administrator of the server your IMAP account is on, they can recover all of your email from their backups. That's why it is smart to leave important data on servers managed by IT groups. They do all the work of keeping regular backups for you.
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