Not that other cultures aren't sick. In the US we have our McDonalds and WalMart and televangelists and flag waving etc. But that doesn't excuse the really sick shite like this.
Sorry if I offended anyone. God forbid that we actually be critical of anyone else.
[edit: chubakka didn't see your post before I submitted mine.]
Is McDonald's and Walmart and televangelists the worst you could find? lol Seriously. Nothing excuses the deaths of people, but your tone is full of a SEVERE dislike of the Arabs at the very least. To describe calling a culture "damn sick" as merely being "critical" of it, is very generous of you.
Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Shift Maybe it says something about some of the Who fans?
Yeah? What exactly? Satan worshipping hippies? lol The horror!! Of course only Arabs are capable of stampedes and trampling deaths right?
Yeah? What exactly? Satan worshipping hippies? lol The horror!! Of course only Arabs are capable of stampedes and trampling deaths right?
Arrogant Crusader and Zionist!! You who demean the sacred rituals commanded unto us by the Propet himself (peace be to him)- have you never been to a Great White concert? Or a Who concert? May the sweaty, burning flesh of a thousand stampeding heavy metal fans suffocate you. You dhimmi infidel!
And, of course, in countries such as the magic kingdom of Arabia, where the sharia, or traditional Islamic law, is enforced, stones are still used in public executions, especially of adulterers. Just another little inconsequential detail. But why bother with Islam when you have the Aztec religion to choose from?
Well, I didn't see the untold multitudes (perhaps a few million people) that saw "USA" written in the big stone that's supposed to represent Iblis (Satan) do anything to protest that. Did you hear many voices from the Islamic world denouncing the fact that "USA" is written so prominently on an object that's supposed to symbolize evil? No. In fact, you were very quiet about it. And I bet if I didn't mention it now, you never would have. But let's talk about this. Or do we all need to be experts on Islam to start addressing this issue.
Well, I didn't see the untold multitudes (perhaps a few million people) that saw "USA" written in the big stone that's supposed to represent Iblis (Satan) do anything to protest that. Did you hear many voices from the Islamic world denouncing the fact that "USA" is written so prominently on an object that's supposed to symbolize evil? No. In fact, you were very quiet about it. And I bet if I didn't mention it now, you never would have. But let's talk about this. Or do we all need to be experts on Islam to start addressing this issue.
Earth calling liberal multiculturalists...REPEAT NEWSFLASH:
"Hajj 'great success' ? Saudi minister
Jordan Times, Thursday, February 5, 2004
MECCA (AFP) ? The Hajj season was a "great success," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdul Aziz said Wednesday, adding that the 251 people trampled to death during the stoning of the devil ritual had "met their fate." "I want to congratulate you on your great achievement," Prince Nayef told the men charged with the security of the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, the official Saudi Press Agency reported.
"All the security, safety and traffic plans were carried out according to the highest standards and those who say otherwise are ungrateful or hate this country."
He said the mostly Asian pilgrims who perished Sunday as they pressed to throw stones at three pillars representing Satan in the nearby valley of Mina "met their fate because their place and time of death has been decided the moment they were born."
What more needs be said....or are some of the benighted looking for a US headline "WHO Concert Great Success" adding that a score of concert goers died and "met their fate"."
And, of course, in countries such as the magic kingdom of Arabia, where the sharia, or traditional Islamic law, is enforced, stones are still used in public executions, especially of adulterers. Just another little inconsequential detail. But why bother with Islam when you have the Aztec religion to choose from?
Keep on topic.
Why don't you defend your made-up claim that it's dangerous for people to 'slip' at the Hajj?
I say the Saudis are not representative of Islam but a heterodox sect that represents less than 5 % of the world's Muslims and that the Muslims actually in Saudi are oppressed and do not support the regime.
And I'm calling you down on this because I'm bored. Are you saying then, that the other 95% of the world's Muslims do not consider this year's Hajj to be a great success? That they do not believe these 260 people as "being destined to die" under the feet of others that day? That it was in fact a tragedy in their minds?
If so, please prove it, preferably with a structured, reasoned argument.
Is McDonald's and Walmart and televangelists the worst you could find? lol Seriously. Nothing excuses the deaths of people, but your tone is full of a SEVERE dislike of the Arabs at the very least. To describe calling a culture "damn sick" as merely being "critical" of it, is very generous of you.
I could go on and on with the symbols of what's wrong with my (American) culture. We're a self-indulgent, inward-looking, anti-intellectual, superstitious, wasteful, gluttonous, religious, authoritarian, pseudo-patriotic culture. I'd be happy for you to add to them and find worse things.
But it's not Arabs I dislike, it's their culture. Their religious fundamentalism/extremism; their dislike of self-criticism; their disregard for human life, especially their own people; their tendency to blame their own backwardness on others.
I don't dislike Americans either. But that doesn't mean I can't try to see what's right and wrong with the trends I see around me.
And I don't like cultural relativism; at least not to the extent that it takes clearly, objectively outrageous cultural practices and belief systems and excuses them no matter what they are.
I am saying the Saudis are as representative of Islam as David Koresh was of Christianity
I just don't believe this. You know a lot more about these things than me, and I respect that, but I wonder if you're losing the forest here. These weren't Saudi Muslims killed on this pilgrimage. I don't really see how Wahabism had anything at all to do with what happened here.
Why don't you defend your made-up claim that it's dangerous for people to 'slip' at the Hajj?
Because your arguments are to reality what the La Brea tar pits were to mammals. And frankly, I find them a bore. But if it makes you feel better, I can change that to them diving onto the floor in an orgasmic act of Jihadi "martyrdom". It was Allah's will. So who are we to question that.
So I guess that you would extend that to Arab Christians, Iraqi Arab speaking Jews, Bahi'is and Druze ?
Wow.
Gilsch used the term "Arabs," I was just responding. I'm not sure if the cultural crud is regional, religious, Arab, or what. I suspect the religion is a necessary ingredient, though.
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely related to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situations?
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely realted to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situation?
The angle was about safety factors, managing crowds, you know, human and logistical factors in these deaths. Anyway, forget it. Islam is barbaric. Flame away at one another.
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely related to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situations?
Comments
Originally posted by BRussell
TIt's a sign of a damn sick culture.
Is the false sympathy we normally see out of an American politician really that much better? I say no.
Originally posted by bunge
quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
TIt's a sign of a damn sick culture.
Is the false sympathy we normally see out of an American politician really that much better? I say no.
The way you quoted me I thought we were talking about Janet Jackson again.
Originally posted by BRussell
The way you quoted me I thought we were talking about Janet Jackson again.
I could go back and edit my post, but where's the fun in that?
Originally posted by BRussell
Not that other cultures aren't sick. In the US we have our McDonalds and WalMart and televangelists and flag waving etc. But that doesn't excuse the really sick shite like this.
Sorry if I offended anyone. God forbid that we actually be critical of anyone else.
[edit: chubakka didn't see your post before I submitted mine.]
Is McDonald's and Walmart and televangelists the worst you could find? lol Seriously. Nothing excuses the deaths of people, but your tone is full of a SEVERE dislike of the Arabs at the very least. To describe calling a culture "damn sick" as merely being "critical" of it, is very generous of you.
Originally posted by Blue Shift Maybe it says something about some of the Who fans?
Yeah? What exactly? Satan worshipping hippies? lol The horror!! Of course only Arabs are capable of stampedes and trampling deaths right?
Originally posted by Gilsch
Yeah? What exactly? Satan worshipping hippies? lol The horror!! Of course only Arabs are capable of stampedes and trampling deaths right?
Arrogant Crusader and Zionist!! You who demean the sacred rituals commanded unto us by the Propet himself (peace be to him)- have you never been to a Great White concert? Or a Who concert? May the sweaty, burning flesh of a thousand stampeding heavy metal fans suffocate you. You dhimmi infidel!
And, of course, in countries such as the magic kingdom of Arabia, where the sharia, or traditional Islamic law, is enforced, stones are still used in public executions, especially of adulterers. Just another little inconsequential detail. But why bother with Islam when you have the Aztec religion to choose from?
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Well, I didn't see the untold multitudes (perhaps a few million people) that saw "USA" written in the big stone that's supposed to represent Iblis (Satan) do anything to protest that. Did you hear many voices from the Islamic world denouncing the fact that "USA" is written so prominently on an object that's supposed to symbolize evil? No. In fact, you were very quiet about it. And I bet if I didn't mention it now, you never would have. But let's talk about this. Or do we all need to be experts on Islam to start addressing this issue.
Earth calling liberal multiculturalists...REPEAT NEWSFLASH:
"Hajj 'great success' ? Saudi minister
Jordan Times, Thursday, February 5, 2004
MECCA (AFP) ? The Hajj season was a "great success," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdul Aziz said Wednesday, adding that the 251 people trampled to death during the stoning of the devil ritual had "met their fate." "I want to congratulate you on your great achievement," Prince Nayef told the men charged with the security of the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, the official Saudi Press Agency reported.
"All the security, safety and traffic plans were carried out according to the highest standards and those who say otherwise are ungrateful or hate this country."
He said the mostly Asian pilgrims who perished Sunday as they pressed to throw stones at three pillars representing Satan in the nearby valley of Mina "met their fate because their place and time of death has been decided the moment they were born."
What more needs be said....or are some of the benighted looking for a US headline "WHO Concert Great Success" adding that a score of concert goers died and "met their fate"."
No doubt about it Civilization 1, Islam 0
Originally posted by segovius
Btw - I notice you didn't address any of the points in my initial post. Do you intend to do that at all or do you just need more time ?
I was answering another thread. I think they're entertaining enough on their own. No need for me to add.
Originally posted by Blue Shift
And, of course, in countries such as the magic kingdom of Arabia, where the sharia, or traditional Islamic law, is enforced, stones are still used in public executions, especially of adulterers. Just another little inconsequential detail. But why bother with Islam when you have the Aztec religion to choose from?
Keep on topic.
Why don't you defend your made-up claim that it's dangerous for people to 'slip' at the Hajj?
Originally posted by segovius
I'm calling you because I'm bored.
I say the Saudis are not representative of Islam but a heterodox sect that represents less than 5 % of the world's Muslims and that the Muslims actually in Saudi are oppressed and do not support the regime.
And I'm calling you down on this because I'm bored. Are you saying then, that the other 95% of the world's Muslims do not consider this year's Hajj to be a great success? That they do not believe these 260 people as "being destined to die" under the feet of others that day? That it was in fact a tragedy in their minds?
If so, please prove it, preferably with a structured, reasoned argument.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Is McDonald's and Walmart and televangelists the worst you could find? lol Seriously. Nothing excuses the deaths of people, but your tone is full of a SEVERE dislike of the Arabs at the very least. To describe calling a culture "damn sick" as merely being "critical" of it, is very generous of you.
I could go on and on with the symbols of what's wrong with my (American) culture. We're a self-indulgent, inward-looking, anti-intellectual, superstitious, wasteful, gluttonous, religious, authoritarian, pseudo-patriotic culture. I'd be happy for you to add to them and find worse things.
But it's not Arabs I dislike, it's their culture. Their religious fundamentalism/extremism; their dislike of self-criticism; their disregard for human life, especially their own people; their tendency to blame their own backwardness on others.
I don't dislike Americans either. But that doesn't mean I can't try to see what's right and wrong with the trends I see around me.
And I don't like cultural relativism; at least not to the extent that it takes clearly, objectively outrageous cultural practices and belief systems and excuses them no matter what they are.
Originally posted by segovius
I am saying the Saudis are as representative of Islam as David Koresh was of Christianity
I just don't believe this. You know a lot more about these things than me, and I respect that, but I wonder if you're losing the forest here. These weren't Saudi Muslims killed on this pilgrimage. I don't really see how Wahabism had anything at all to do with what happened here.
Originally posted by bunge
Why don't you defend your made-up claim that it's dangerous for people to 'slip' at the Hajj?
Because your arguments are to reality what the La Brea tar pits were to mammals. And frankly, I find them a bore. But if it makes you feel better, I can change that to them diving onto the floor in an orgasmic act of Jihadi "martyrdom". It was Allah's will. So who are we to question that.
Originally posted by segovius
I am saying the Saudis are as representative of Islam as David Koresh was of Christianity and hence the poster's initial assertion of:
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Tell me, was that Koresh guy in charge of the Vatican?
Originally posted by segovius
So I guess that you would extend that to Arab Christians, Iraqi Arab speaking Jews, Bahi'is and Druze ?
Wow.
Gilsch used the term "Arabs," I was just responding. I'm not sure if the cultural crud is regional, religious, Arab, or what. I suspect the religion is a necessary ingredient, though.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Nice angle. Run with it!
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely related to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situations?
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Yeah, that's the ticket.
Tell me, was that Koresh guy in charge of the Vatican?
You have got it. Wow. Brilliant.
So its the Poles...
Originally posted by Blue Shift
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely realted to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situation?
The angle was about safety factors, managing crowds, you know, human and logistical factors in these deaths. Anyway, forget it. Islam is barbaric.
Originally posted by segovius
So I guess that you would extend that to Arab Christians, Iraqi Arab speaking Jews, Bahi'is and Druze ?
Wow.
How many Iraqi speaking Jews are there in Iraq? Two? How many Christians in the magic kingdom of Arabia?
Originally posted by Blue Shift
How is people trying to escape a burning collapsing skyscraper even remotely related to this situation? And was anyone trampled to death even in that most dire of situations?
See BuonRotto's comment.