what i think america should do in the coming years (to help the world..and our image)
ok, so right now i think everyone would agree that the good old USA has a pretty bad image around the world (if you count the high point of the US image abroad as the end of WWII,well then right now we are pretty far from that)...so what can we do as a nation to not only make the world (and our country also) a better, safer, happier, healthier and all around nicer place, while also improving greatly our world image??
my plan (co-opting from old plans)...and let it be known some facts about myself so you can judge from that...white male, 42 years old (too old for a draft etc), married, middle class, 2 daughters of teen aged years...just background info as what i am proposing will require a re-thinking of not only americas goals and such, but also what we are willing to do and accept...
similar to israel and the mormons...all US citizens give 2 years of service after high school...both male and female...this can be military service or it can be peace corp type service...if you chose military, you go through boot camp and do the rest of your time in duties assigned by the military...if you chose the peace corps you go around the world (including some places in the USA that need help) building schools, water works, health care clinics etc...anything that country and community needs...
you get food and board and transportation free for those two years and in return you get 10 thousand dollars a year toward college paid for every year you "volunteered"...2 years service equals 20 thousand towards college, 4 years served equals 40 thousand towards college...
around the world the countries and it's citizens will see american youths coming to them and helping them...these countries will see that america is not only reaching out, but also putting it's children at some risk in order to help others...yes there will be some bad moments (some american children will behave badly, some american children will get hurt or die...but those things happen here also and i think the good would clearly outway the bad)...
the world would be improved, i think american children would be improved and clearly americas image would be improved...
the down side...
costs would be high...many people would balk at being "told" what to do...but i see it as a "it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" moment...our kids get 12 years of kinda free education (yes taxes pay for education, but taxes also pay for nuclear bombs...so that is kinda a push), give 2 years back to their country, and then get 2 more years of basically free college (as long as college would accept 10 thousand a year...perhaps we ask that of our colleges also...the first two years of education at any college is 10 thousand a year to any young adult who put in military/peace corp service)...
the up side...
i think our children would get a great education from this...would see some of the world...would be stronger and more mature and would be better prepared for college when they start...and, of course, we would be improving both the world and our image and our children all at the same time...a sort of win/win/win situation
how to do it....if you chose peace corp, at 16 years old you are given the name of a country you will work in...in school you are given a project in 11th and 12th grade to present a report on that country...this way you learn about it's history, it's people, it's needs, it's strengths and weaknesses etc etc...so we are not throwing our kids blindly into a foreign country (our kids also learn much more geography that way also...a class sorely missing in schools today)...just like we have science fairs at school where children show off their science projects, we would have "world fairs" where the children showed off their projects on the country they will be working in...
of course there will be full time adults who work in each country who coordinate the "young adults" duties and daily routine (sort of like habitat for humanity, but on a worldwide scale)...this would require a new, large department/cabinet position for the peace corp...or rename it if you like (perhaps peace corp brings too many "jane fonda" images to people...name it "freedomcorp" if you like...we seem to name everything freedom now-a-days)... "freedomcorp", the military and health and education would be the largest divisions of the government...
as a parent of two daughters that would be required to serve, i would be scared, proud, worried, grateful and terrified every day they were gone (and would hug them near to death on the day of their return)...but that is not much different then how i will feel when i send them off to college anyway...
there would, of course, be a way to opt out of military or peace corp duty, but you would have to still serve two years of local community work...i know many at first might opt for this, but i see many many young people, especially if it is "sold" correctly, wanting to serve and travel and "performinig their duty to their country"...
anyways, just my thoughts...better minds than mine would have to work out all the details (costs, how to best serve that foreign country's needs while still keeping our young adults safe, which countries would need how many people etc, etc)...
end long ranting post now
g
my plan (co-opting from old plans)...and let it be known some facts about myself so you can judge from that...white male, 42 years old (too old for a draft etc), married, middle class, 2 daughters of teen aged years...just background info as what i am proposing will require a re-thinking of not only americas goals and such, but also what we are willing to do and accept...
similar to israel and the mormons...all US citizens give 2 years of service after high school...both male and female...this can be military service or it can be peace corp type service...if you chose military, you go through boot camp and do the rest of your time in duties assigned by the military...if you chose the peace corps you go around the world (including some places in the USA that need help) building schools, water works, health care clinics etc...anything that country and community needs...
you get food and board and transportation free for those two years and in return you get 10 thousand dollars a year toward college paid for every year you "volunteered"...2 years service equals 20 thousand towards college, 4 years served equals 40 thousand towards college...
around the world the countries and it's citizens will see american youths coming to them and helping them...these countries will see that america is not only reaching out, but also putting it's children at some risk in order to help others...yes there will be some bad moments (some american children will behave badly, some american children will get hurt or die...but those things happen here also and i think the good would clearly outway the bad)...
the world would be improved, i think american children would be improved and clearly americas image would be improved...
the down side...
costs would be high...many people would balk at being "told" what to do...but i see it as a "it's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" moment...our kids get 12 years of kinda free education (yes taxes pay for education, but taxes also pay for nuclear bombs...so that is kinda a push), give 2 years back to their country, and then get 2 more years of basically free college (as long as college would accept 10 thousand a year...perhaps we ask that of our colleges also...the first two years of education at any college is 10 thousand a year to any young adult who put in military/peace corp service)...
the up side...
i think our children would get a great education from this...would see some of the world...would be stronger and more mature and would be better prepared for college when they start...and, of course, we would be improving both the world and our image and our children all at the same time...a sort of win/win/win situation
how to do it....if you chose peace corp, at 16 years old you are given the name of a country you will work in...in school you are given a project in 11th and 12th grade to present a report on that country...this way you learn about it's history, it's people, it's needs, it's strengths and weaknesses etc etc...so we are not throwing our kids blindly into a foreign country (our kids also learn much more geography that way also...a class sorely missing in schools today)...just like we have science fairs at school where children show off their science projects, we would have "world fairs" where the children showed off their projects on the country they will be working in...
of course there will be full time adults who work in each country who coordinate the "young adults" duties and daily routine (sort of like habitat for humanity, but on a worldwide scale)...this would require a new, large department/cabinet position for the peace corp...or rename it if you like (perhaps peace corp brings too many "jane fonda" images to people...name it "freedomcorp" if you like...we seem to name everything freedom now-a-days)... "freedomcorp", the military and health and education would be the largest divisions of the government...
as a parent of two daughters that would be required to serve, i would be scared, proud, worried, grateful and terrified every day they were gone (and would hug them near to death on the day of their return)...but that is not much different then how i will feel when i send them off to college anyway...
there would, of course, be a way to opt out of military or peace corp duty, but you would have to still serve two years of local community work...i know many at first might opt for this, but i see many many young people, especially if it is "sold" correctly, wanting to serve and travel and "performinig their duty to their country"...
anyways, just my thoughts...better minds than mine would have to work out all the details (costs, how to best serve that foreign country's needs while still keeping our young adults safe, which countries would need how many people etc, etc)...
end long ranting post now
g
Comments
The important thing to do is to let the person decide how they choose to help out - be it military, overseas or domestic aid, environmental cleanup, whatever. Then it isn't so much conscripting as it is volunteer work... just required volunteer work.
Personally, I think tying this to full citizenship, including voting, is also a dandy idea. Most of our native born citizens display such an amazing amount of ignorance about how our political system works that it's just sick. Naturalized citizens have to take a test proving that they can understand at least the basics of how the government works, how come native-borns can get away with idiocy? *shakes head*
No test to vote on a per election basis, but a test to gain full citizenship, period. Everyone can take it, anyone can pass it, but dammit, if you don't care to learn even the basics of what you're participating in, don't.
That and the compulsory service, and I think that not only would we have a much more aware citizenry, more able to *NOT* be led around like sheep, but we'd have a much more effective government elected in.
i would love to hear from people that:
are of the age that would be affected by this
and
have children of the age that would be affected by this
g
Originally posted by thegelding
yes, i thought of the "duty is required for full citizenship" aspect also, but left it out as it was alittle too much like "starship troopers"...
Yeah, it is, but... is that a bad idea?
but i think that a sense of "citizenship" tied to "world citizenship" (the idea of "yes we are americans, but we also are part of the whole world also") would be wonderful if done right...stronger children make stronger young adults which make stronger adults...which would keep us a strong nation for years and years to come
I fully agree.
You're talking about the same group of people who want to make it illegal to have their children's feelings hurt in schoolyards (only politically correct words will do!), who don't want them to come into contact with any bacteria, who want to "nurture" them every time they screw up, instead of reprimanding them, etc. Which is precisely *why* it's a great idea; American teens are way too sheltered as a group.
This nation's parents (of teenagers I mean), need the service as much as their kids. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and we have a lot of trees that lack character, if you take my meaning.
Originally posted by thegelding
ok, so right now i think everyone would agree that the good old USA has a pretty bad image around the world
...
end long ranting post now
g
well, don't worry. everthing is ok - so far
And don't get me wrong, overruling is always a bad idea.
my 2 cents
In Switzerland, every male person has to serve the country.
I'm 19 now. That means that I will have to go to the military in july this year. Military is fully mandatory here in Switzerland. (It's voluntary for women though.) If I say 'fully mandatory' I mean that you have to go, or do an other service who equals the military. I chose to go to the military.
You can do lots of things, including Civil defense and Civil service. (These are not the same as military.)
I will concentrate on the military: Standard and specific training for 21 weeks, all in once piece. You can go home on weekends. (Switzerland isn't that big.) After you completed and survived (
This is just a brief overview. There are lots of other things you can do to serve the country.
Additionally, Switzerland has a group of volunteers who work international. (KFOR/Swisscoy) These deployments are equipped with weapons, but only for self-defense. They work together with people from other countries.
There are lots of things in other countries with swiss personnel, but unfortunately I don't know them good enough to tell you about it. But don't forget the swiss guards in Rome
So you see, here in Switzerland we already do what thegelding proposed. Not to this extent though, but if something like this would happen in the USofA, then I'm sure it would help your image like a turbo helps a Beetle. A lot. Because right now, you suck. Not the whole of it, but politically you sure do. 8)
2. Open our borders. Declare amnesty for all illegals.
3. Legalize drugs.
As for your proposal I see no real benefit in forcing all of America's young people to have a run in the military. I think not only would it hurt the economy but also it would hurt the military. It's garbage. It's socialistic. No. Never. Not in the US.
i fear the day this idea would come into practice. voluntary volunteerism is just alright with me. infact, i voluntarily (and without aide of government funding) went to europe as an impressionable teen, and did some charity work (it was more like two months, not two years, and i could have stood more, but i dont think 22 months more; and i did a month or so stint on the impoverished lakota indian territory). i think i'm a better person for it. but it'd be a cold day in hell when i'd want to hike my taxes for something like this. "give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses...so we can send them back to you with messages of peace, love and american globalization" bollocks, i say. bollocks.
It could work, and there is work that needs to be done, and with this the idea is sound but the practice would definitely fail. We would have to have guidelines on health of individuals, psychological assessments, etc, and then you would have an influx of people making up sickness to get out of it, then you have those that would fake an injury when they got done to get a disability, which is already happening at an alarming rate in our active duty military now, and then you have private colleges which make their tuition on the market demand that would petition the crap out of this idea. Obviously there will be parents, and social groups who will raise their flag against this with problems I have not even brought up yet.
I think it would be good for our people to take interest in something other than themselves, but forcing them to may not be the best way to do it. Perhaps if they were self-motivated it could be ideal, but that won't happen. The best thing the US can do to increase mindshare is to just butt out of others affairs. To not only engage in war when it is so apparently biased for our own benefit. Give advice, and then let the country do what that country wants to do...That is my 2 cents...and the end of my rant....
1. our children would benefit greatly...a maturing and wonderful sense of self-worth, with an adding bonus of seeing some part of the world they likely would never see
2. the world would be better off...communities would thrive and florish, with clean water and better schools and an influx of americans and their dollars
other than that, the usa would have better relations, better trade with more industrial nations that would be popping up, less incidents of terrorism (maybe...)
it would do more good for our kids, ourselves, our country and our world than any amount of "nation building" in the middle east...
yes it asks alot...but it gives alot also...
giving a little sweat, some blood and a few tears for our country and our world?? how dare we ask that?
g
nice response iJerry...i posted the above while you must have posted it...yes, i have thought of many of those things too...our nation is huge, with possibly too many children to do this...that is why i leave it to better minds than mine to figure out...but there must be a way that we could do some version of this...not every child is going to college, so make the age to start college at 20...then out of high school you have three options...military, peace corp, work (or free load off parents)...if even 20 percent of US children did this out of high school, it could change so many things...yes it is huge and hard, but so was walking on the moon, so was building the great pyrmids and the panama canal...we could do it
I am afraid you are deluding yourself.
No. Hell no. No way in fvcking hell.
It means nothing if it is compulsory.
but i'm not the only one
yes...but i am from the school that i don't have to better every person...some would not benefit, some would find any excuse not to go...
yet thousands would, and many would "grow" from that experience...
hell, the drinking age isn't till 21, what do kids want to go to college before then anyway??
g
hell, if nothing else, this would unite the hard line right and the hard line left...anything the government tells you to do ticks the hell out of these people...the left would hate it for "attacking" free will (though we have many many things we have to do all the time...school till a certain age, pay taxes etc), the right would hate it for helping all these other countries on our dime and exposing our kids to foreign ways of life...the middle would likely step behind it in some fashion as they understand that free will is modified almost every single moment of every single day and that helping the world (and the inherent costs) helps us and brings us back money in the long run...
maybe that is the key...we (since the 80's especially) take such a short view of things...what will this do for me now? how much money will this make me now?? etc...
we, and the world, need a much longer view than that
g
ps...please, if you want (free will and all), put your age with your response...i would like to know who likes this and who hates this by age....
Originally posted by thegelding
ps...please, if you want (free will and all), put your age with your response...i would like to know who likes this and who hates this by age....
just barely out of the range, 20.
Let's say some kid stole something from your yard. What would make you feel better? The kid on his own coming forward and returning the item and apologizing because he felt guilty or the kid being dragged there by his parent and forced to return the item and forced into giving a half-assed apology?
we are "forced" to go to school, we are "forced" to obey laws, we are "forced" to do all kinds of stuff that make us "better" people...usually they actually work...
you don't like doing "good deeds", then go the military service route, you don't like firing guns, go the peace corp route, you don't like to fire guns or travel too far from momma, go the community service route...lots of options...except maybe the "i want to do nothing but play my X-Box and download porn" option...
we all have to go to school, we all have to find jobs or some means of supporting ourselves...this would just be one more thing to do in our lives...
the upside seems huge (better world, better health, better people)...the downside seems mostly to be the "how dare you tell me what to do" arguement...we are told what to do all the time...from "don't put that in your mouth" as a toddler, to "don't drive too fast" as a teenager to "work this saturday or you're fired" as an adult...
g
Originally posted by thegelding
giving a community clean running water that has never had that is a good thing...whether you do it as a "good deed" or not...
we are "forced" to go to school, we are "forced" to obey laws, we are "forced" to do all kinds of stuff that make us "better" people...usually they actually work...
you don't like doing "good deeds", then go the military service route, you don't like firing guns, go the peace corp route, you don't like to fire guns or travel too far from momma, go the community service route...lots of options...except maybe the "i want to do nothing but play my X-Box and download porn" option...
we all have to go to school, we all have to find jobs or some means of supporting ourselves...this would just be one more thing to do in our lives...
g
The difference is you are a minor when you are being coerced to go to school. The difference is laws are (generally) there to prevent you from infringing upon the rights of others. Once you are an adult, the government should not be directing your life. It's the ultimate infringement of a person's right to choose. Don't make it compulsory. Offer the rewards but don't force people to do it and I'm right with you.
This country is founded on individual freedoms. It's bullshit to take that away.
Originally posted by BR
The difference is you are a minor when you are being coerced to go to school. The difference is laws are (generally) there to prevent you from infringing upon the rights of others. Once you are an adult, the government should not be directing your life. It's the ultimate infringement of a person's right to choose. Don't make it compulsory. Offer the rewards but don't force people to do it and I'm right with you.
ok, BR, good reply...so what do we offer as rewards??
in "starship troopers" it was the right to vote
here i am offering college money...
perhaps something else?
could we actually limit the right to vote only to people that serve either militarily or social servicely (a word?)? would college money alone be enough?? would all it takes is pride and working it into the middle school and high school curriculum??
thanks
g
maybe it is just my latent communism coming out (the whole, "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"...we are such a strong and rich and varied nation...i would love to see us spread that around and use the most powerful resource we have...our people)
plus i don't see it as so horrible that our country would ask, "i need you to help, each and every one of you in one way or another"...oh well