3D Animators on Mac?

idunno · February 8, 2004 5:55PM

I am currently studying 3D Animation, and my teacher reckons that no one in the 3D industry uses Mac's (he is trying to convinve me to sell my Mac and go PC)... besides the fact that they ARE ACTUALLY TEACHING US ON MAC'S!!!! And let us not forget that Steve JObs is also the CEO of the NUmber 1 3D Animation company on the planet.

Are there any other 3d Artists on this forum who use Mac's for their work?

Les.

PS. I am currently using Maya on a g3 400mhz, it is working okay... but takes ages to render... so soon upgrading to a g5.

ast3r3x · February 8, 2004 6:04PM

I haven't read the articles, but this thread may talk about it a little.

wrong robot · February 8, 2004 6:34PM

Leonis....leonis.....bueller....

buckeye · February 8, 2004 7:29PM

It isn't that NOBODY uses Macs for 3D, it is just that the percentage is low relative to windows, linux, etc. There are several major apps that don't run on Macs such as 3dMax and Softimage.

If you are using Lightwave or Maya, a G5 will serve you quite well.

I have worked on several recent animation projects from Flash to Maya that are using Macs for workstations, but not for Rendering.

ti fighter · February 8, 2004 8:08PM

Well if your using Maya and learning Maya at school on Macs, you can stick with a Mac. 6 years ago I switched to pc because I wanted to run Softimage while I was in school, now I can just run Maya on my mac. The only downside is there's is no unlimited version yet so you wont have Fluid Effects, fur, cloth, and live match moving. But you don't need them to make great animations, and since your running complete at school too, your fine.

But, if I was starting a 3d shop tomorrow I would maybe buy all PC's to run the 3D software. Cuz they are cheap, fast, and can run anything. If your gonna use the computer as a 3d workstation and only a 3d workstation you maybe want to think about a PC if your on a budget. But if your gonna use it as your only machine, for 3D, photoshop texturing, soundtracks, editing your animations, personal stuff (web, email) etc.. Then definitely get a G5

And all the 3d software that runs on pc and mac are virtually identical. So if you learn Maya on a mac and you go get a job and they use pc's you'll be fine. Although you should make sure you know how to use windows.

let me just add for nostalgia's sake, back then, before I got a pc I ran 3dStudio Max in virtual PC on a 210mhz Power Computing Machine. Slow as hell but It worked and I got my modeling projects done

splinemodel · February 8, 2004 10:08PM

I'm a 3d modeler. Does that count? I've done a lot of work for print and more recently some industrial design projects for injection molded plastic.

Electric Image + FormZ + G5 = why on earth do you need a PC?

I've never really liked Maya, but I don't do character modeling, so who would have guessed.

By the way, EI on a dual G5 screams like a bat out of the 7th layer of hell. Nothing touches EI in render speed or quality as far as I can tell, plus it's optimized heavily for Altivec and dual processors.

leonis · February 9, 2004 2:47PM

I am an amateur doing all modelling in Cinema 4D, does it count?

idunno · February 9, 2004 10:10PM

Thanks everyone for their words of encouragement. I will continue to fight the good fight on a Mac. I knew it was crap, seeing as Mac's have always been the creative industrys first choice.

Maya will scream on a G5!

g in the s · February 9, 2004 11:22PM

I work with 3D every day and have been working in the 3D industry for 10 years now. I can tell you that your teacher does not know what he is talking about.

If anything the Windows PC is dying in the 3D world, especially for anything to do with fIlm and video.

Most high-end 3D apps like Maya started on UNIX (OS X is a UNIX OS). Software venders only moved to the Windows PC market, or began on the PC, because companies like SGI had lost their lead on graphics price/performance by the late 90's. Many of these comapnaies also wanted a larger user install base to make more money from.

But if you look at the market trends (I do because I have to for part of my job) you will see that for the most part Windows is becoming marginalized. Many special effects houses now will only buy Mac OS X Macintoshes, or Linux based PCs. The reason is that both of these operating systems are inherently more stable, reliable and scalable than ANY Windows based system. Additionally, you can now find the same high-end video cards that were Windows only working with Mac OS X and Linux now.

In fact, the Mac OS was the largest growing market segment for Maya, at least a year or two ago, and companies like MAXON (who makes Cinema 4D) are also seeing more and more of the pro market move to Macs.

Only the video game market is dominated by Windows and PC systems. If you, or your teacher, want to play games then by a Windows PC (at least today). But, if you want to do real graphics work, not just 3D, the buy a Macintosh. The only other exception to this would be the real-time 3D simulation market. But again, they are moving away from Windows towards Linux because they need even more stable and reliable systems than film and video people do.

- G in the S

ghost_user_name · February 9, 2004 11:41PM

Quote:

Originally posted by les t

And let us not forget that Steve JObs is also the CEO of the NUmber 1 3D Animation company on the planet.

And let us not forget that Pixar doesn't use macs either

There is more support on the PC for 3D animation software and hardware. You have an abundance of graphics cards and software to choose from. That platform is taken more seriously than the mac is. That's the advantage I see. And if you wanted to use Studio Max, you need a PC.

I run LightWave personally, but I don't do a lot of 3D work. If I was doing a lot, I'd probably consider having a separate machine for it.

leonis · February 10, 2004 12:00AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LoCash

And let us not forget that Pixar doesn't use macs either

I don't have the link but afaik Pixar last year bought quite a number of G5 as the workstation for their staff

leonis · February 10, 2004 12:07AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G in the S

I work with 3D every day and have been working in the 3D industry for 10 years now.

- G in the S

Hey. What type of 3D work do you do? Very curious

g in the s · February 10, 2004 3:57AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Leonis

Hey. What type of 3D work do you do? Very curious

I have done work in all most every 3D industry: Film, video, video games, realtime simulation, VR, CAD, manufacturing, scientific visualization, design, web and 3D for print.

My skill sets includes: 3D modeling, texturing, lighting, animation, rigging, kinematics, scripting, motion capture clean-up, dynamics, particle systems (one of my favorites), behaviors and writing some of my own OpenGL code.

Over the past 10 years I have been lucky enough to help with film, video and game projects at ILM, Dreamworks and Sony to SCEA, Sega, EA, and Lucas Arts. As well as having worked with, or full time for companies such as SGI, Alias (Alias and Wavefront in the old days), Fakespace, Biovision (one of the first motion capture companies), Adobe, Macromedia, Apple, NASA, Boeing and a hand full of smaller and lesser known companies.

I have WAY more knowledge stuck in my head than one person should. I can't really say where, or what, I am working on now because of the nature of the work. But it is high-end 3D stuff that requires me to keep up with what is happening with not just 3D, but technology in general. Lets just say that it is a techno fetishists dream job.

- G in the S

ericg · February 10, 2004 6:27AM

Show your teacher this site...

http://www.rustboy.com/rustweb.htm

leonis · February 10, 2004 10:50AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G in the S

I have done work in all most every 3D industry: Film, video, video games, realtime simulation, VR, CAD, manufacturing, scientific visualization, design, web and 3D for print.

My skill sets includes: 3D modeling, texturing, lighting, animation, rigging, kinematics, scripting, motion capture clean-up, dynamics, particle systems (one of my favorites), behaviors and writing some of my own OpenGL code.

- G in the S

Would love to see some sample

splinemodel · February 11, 2004 4:58PM

the amazing part about rustboy is that it was made in infini-D. Otherwise it's not THAT impressive.

As for not being able to use 3DSMAX. . . I can't deny that good work has come out of it, but if you're using 3DSMAX for any reason other than:

1) You have lots of models in 3DSMAX that your predecessor made

2) It's the only program you know

Then you're a retard.

aphelion · February 11, 2004 5:13PM

Some interesting news concerning @Alias from Reuters

Quote:

Specialized-computer maker Silicon Graphics Inc. (NYSE:SGI - News) said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell its Alias graphics technology and services business in a move to focus more closely on its core computing and storage business.

So, if SGI is selling @Alias, why isn't Apple buying them? Interestingly, the reason that SGI gives for this sale is:

Quote:

Shedding Alias would continue the company's strategy of narrowing its focus to products such as a computer based on the Intel Corp. Itanium 2 microprocessor and running the increasingly popular Linux operating system.

I wonder who is "the private investment" firm behind this buyout?

leonis · February 11, 2004 8:04PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Splinemodel

the amazing part about rustboy is that it was made in infini-D. Otherwise it's not THAT impressive.

That's a bit harsh.

I personally think what makes rustboy interesting is that it is a ONE MAN SHOW (except the score of course)!

This is heart warming to all those independent artists out there because this is a "proof" that individuals DO have a chance to get recognized.

Quote:

As for not being able to use 3DSMAX. . . I can't deny that good work has come out of it, but if you're using 3DSMAX for any reason other than:

1) You have lots of models in 3DSMAX that your predecessor made

2) It's the only program you know

Then you're a retard. [/B]

People have their app of choice. I never say people suck or whatever when they are using something I don't use or like.

Again, this is harsh.

idunno · February 11, 2004 11:55PM

Good one, G is the S. I didn't even ask for a mentor, but you have gone and volunteered yourself.

I wouldn't mind seeing a showreel, or a sample, as someone else posted... do you have a website?

Are you a memeber of any 3D forums? I am only new to this 3D game, but am really loving it.

I think the reason my teach said the market is mostly PC, is because we are down here in Australia.. so maybe the market is down here.

Les.

g in the s · February 12, 2004 3:59AM

Quote:

Originally posted by les t

Good one, G is the S. I didn't even ask for a mentor, but you have gone and volunteered yourself.

I wouldn't mind seeing a showreel, or a sample, as someone else posted... do you have a website?

Are you a memeber of any 3D forums? I am only new to this 3D game, but am really loving it.

I think the reason my teach said the market is mostly PC, is because we are down here in Australia.. so maybe the market is down here.

Les.

Well, let me start by saying I can't send you to a web site for my work because I am not allowed to show most of it off publicly for my own promotion.

I am allowed to use my work on a demo reel that I send out to get new jobs, but I am not allowed to put it up for public viewing. This is very commen for most of the work I do. If I worked on a movie like "Star Ship Troopers" or "Twister"

, then the studio owns the rights to the work I have done. I can't really put the work on the web without having the rights to do so. I did have some of my work up on the web years ago, but I almost wound up in court because of it. So I don't tempt fait any more. Although I do recommend that you put your work up on a web site to show it off. But only put your best stuff on the web, don't put every little piece of work you do out there. Before I send out a new demo reel I always have my friends critique it so that I know it is the best stuff, not just what I think is the best.

Also, when you work on 3D graphics for film, video and video games it is very hard to say "I did that shot" or "that was my effect". Usually you have a team of people that works on a shot. One person does the 3D modeling, another the texture maps, another the lighting, another the kinematics (if you have characters), another does the particles or extra effects, someone does the rendering and you finish this off with someone compositing the shot together. So most movies and games are a collaboration of people working together. VERY rarely do you have things that are done by one person from beginning to end. Usually people that do it all on there own are either totally driven, have been doing this stuff for a long time, or are completely daft.

So, here are my words of wisdom for you, and anyone else that is reading this and wants to work in the 3D graphics industry.

1. Learn 2D FIRST. If you don't understand the basics of things like drawing (even if you aren't good at it), photography, color theory, and basic design elements then you will have a harder time making really good looking 3D stuff. This includes and understanding of Photoshop (a must especially for creating textures) and Illustrator, or some other vector based drawing app.

2. Don't worry about the 3D application as much as the skills. It doesn't matter if you start in Maya PLE, Lightwave, Electric Image, Cinema 4D or Carrara (which is a cool 3D app for the price, but doesn't beat Cinema 4D). Learn how to model, texture, animate, light and render your ideas.

3. Start small, don't go for the next killer mini CG movie off the back. Rather, start with something as simple as a pyramid of different spheres on a table top. Make one of them glass, another steel, another an orange, another wood and and so on. You can learn a lot by just trying to make a simple collection of simple objects look very real. Pay attention to the small details like the shadows, opacity, color, caustics, bumps, dirt, grime, reflections and specularity. Make sure that they look real, not plastic or fake. You will be surprised how hard it is to make a simple collection of things look very real.

4. Learn how to do multipass rendering if you want to work on film. This skill is invaluable. But this also means that you need to learn how to do compositing (which is a very powerful skill in itself). Most of the 3D CG you see in movies today is not just rendered out in 1 pass, rather you render the base model first, then do a lighting and shadow pass, then do a reflection render and so on. There is a great resource out there to learn this. A company called dvGarage has a tutorial on how to learn this.

http://www.padd.com/market/product/p...hp?prod=mprlab

In fact dvGarage is one of the best resources I have found out there for people that want to learn 3D. They have a product called the 3D Toolkit that is a killer place to start learning 3D. I think it is $99 and comes with a full copy (all be it an older version) of Electric Image.

http://www.padd.com/market/product/p....php?prod=3dtk

5. If you want to work in real-time 3D graphics like video games or simulation then learn polygon modeling, NOT surface modeling. Real-time game engines and simulation tools work on polygons. You will also want to learn about OpenGL. OpenGL is the true language of real-time 3D graphics, not MS DirectX. Some games guys use DirectX because there are some nice things to it. But with OpenGL 2.0 coming, and shader languages like CG from NVIDIA, you will do much better to learn OpenGL if real-time is what you are interested in. A great resource for learning about real-time 3D graphics is http://www.opengl.org/. This site is a gold mine of information, links to other peoples web sites, and so on.

5. Finally, work with others if you can. You can learn loads more by working in a group or collaborating with others than you can on your own.

I hope that this info will help you, or any one else reading this, to better understand where to start in 3D graphics. It is a fun industry to work in. There are some many different things that you can do with 3D graphics you would be amazed. I feel like I get payed to play all the time, and that is the best kind of job you can have.

- G in the S

leonis · February 12, 2004 10:48AM

Hey Mr. G in the S

Any words on when will OpenGL 2.0 be offically released?

I have heard "coming soon" for a long time

Also......if you don't mind please go check out my site (in my signature). Tell me what you think

But promise me don't laugh.....I know it's amatuerish (the character movements needs a lot of work, I will try to work a bit harder in that department on the next installment)

3D Animators on Mac?

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