I don't think I've evern seen a single piece of software in a store for Linux. Might have seen a Linux distro once or twice in a Staples or something.
DMB is right Linux sucks for a desktop. And it always will. It's not a hard concept: no company = no support phone number to call, no number to call to buy software. Duh? Still more Linux anywhere is a good thing because it's an easy port to Mac and it's Not MS.
One) There is a company... in-fact many companies the provide support for Linux. Depending on the distro you may get free support for quite a bit of time after you buy a retail boxed Linux OS. Red Hat is a great example of this, they provide great support for their Linux distro. Suse is another. However if you don't feel like paying 1/8 of what Windows costs and download it for free then the linux community (sites like www.linuxquestions.org and many IRC rooms) provides all the support you need... who better to help you then die-hard zealots? (psst... if you want to get help quick just post that linux sucks because [place problem here] and people will rush to help you)
Two) Why would you need a number to buy software? All GPL software is free to download... and most of it is really good.
there are several companys that backup and support linux
redhat
mandrake (not-so-big but still)
and big tech firms are buying/ using/reselling linux all the time
Ever heard of a quaint little company out of New York called IBM how many million/billion do they have riding on linux, not to mention a huge chunk of ibm's future
The downside is that linux is an extraordinarily wretched user experience, compared both to the Mac and (to a lesser extent) Windows. If people begin to equate unix with linux, they may never consider the Mac, assuming that anything based on unix will have the same issues.
True but linux is not that bad, experience wise, if the user is open to learning a new platform. The problem is that the average user expects Linux to do everything Windows can do out of the box, which some distros do, but this is not the main aspect of Linux... this takes a back seat to a server centric OS that requires a deep understanding of how the OS works, which is (no, really) one of Linux's strong points. I think Linux can do really well in the desktop arena if the average user gives many distros a chance and does not write off Linux after one bad run-in.
Ever heard of a quaint little company out of New York called IBM how many million/billion do they have riding on linux, not to mention a huge chunk of ibm's future
True... I am quite glad IBM has put so much weight behind Linux. The great outcomes are limitless...
True but linux is not that bad, experience wise, if the user is open to learning a new platform.
Ah, but I think you're talking about the user interface, which is really quite similar to Windows. I'm talking about things like font handling and rendering, consistency of UI across applications (not the UI itself), consistent drag&drop, consistent cut&paste, easy GUI-based networking and server setup... these things should just work, and work well. This isn't even mentioning things like advanced graphics compositing, systemwide color correction, web/mail/OS integration... all the things that make proprietary operating systems a joy to use. It really has nothing to do with learning the system.
Quote:
I think Linux can do really well in the desktop arena if the average user gives many distros a chance and does not write off Linux after one bad run-in.
But that's just what the average user will never do. Downloading and installing open source software isn't something that average users are willing to do, free or not. Configuring their OS isn't something they're going to do. The first time they double click on a .doc file and openoffice mangles it (as it does most of the time) they're simply going to re-install Windows, not search the internet for a better doc translator. How do I play .wmv files? How do I play a .mov? I like Internet Explorer... where is it? How do I play flash files? How do I connect to the internet for God's sake... redhat certainly doesn't make it easy for an average user, but maybe the other distros are better I don't know.
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
Ah, but I think you're talking about the user interface, which is really quite similar to Windows. I'm talking about things like font handling and rendering, consistency of UI across applications (not the UI itself), consistent drag&drop, consistent cut&paste, easy GUI-based networking and server setup... these things should just work, and work well. This isn't even mentioning things like advanced graphics compositing, systemwide color correction, web/mail/OS integration... all the things that make proprietary operating systems a joy to use. It really has nothing to do with learning the system.
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
Consistency of UI across all apps can be done if you only use apps writen with the same tool kit... like GTK or Qt. Hell, KDE has almost every type of program you need written with Qt and all app's UIs change with the theme you set.
Consistency of cut and paste can be done in the same fashion. You will just need to stick with one WM.
Easy GUI-based networking and server setup can be found in such distros as Red Hat and Knoppix. Knoppix is a really good example of easy setup.
It does have to do with learning the OS... because the more you learn the better things get. Linux can be as uniform as you make it... which I think is one of it's stronger points.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fluffy
But that's just what the average user will never do. Downloading and installing open source software isn't something that average users are willing to do, free or not. Configuring their OS isn't something they're going to do. The first time they double click on a .doc file and openoffice mangles it (as it does most of the time) they're simply going to re-install Windows, not search the internet for a better doc translator. How do I play .wmv files? How do I play a .mov? I like Internet Explorer... where is it? How do I play flash files? How do I connect to the internet for God's sake... redhat certainly doesn't make it easy for an average user, but maybe the other distros are better I don't know.
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
FYI Flash works in linux, but only in a browser/stand alone player. And with a little work Quicktime and WindowsMedia will play too... but the support is not great.
Anyway... Red Hat made it simple for me to connect to the net... (This is back when I used Red Hat 7) Red Hat has a bunch of GUI-based apps that get you online fast... Even faster if you use DHCP. I like the idea of the control you have over your system. The "it just works" idea, however great, leaves me wondering just how much control I have. Now I use Slackware... I config most things by editing text files... and following detailed HOWTOs. This gives me a fine control over my system and makem me feel like my computer does just what I tell it to. While this may not be what the average user wants in an OS... it makes me happy.
OOo my not do the best job at translating .doc files but a .doc file is from another program (closed source) on another OS...
But what if you start writing your docs using OOo... and the people who are reading them use OOo... well then you have a free (great) office environment that works just as good as MS Office. All this needs is a greater user base, which will come in time.
Linux will start to hit the office before it hits the home. And that may be sooner than you think.
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
This is often a problem when discussing this issue with people who's primary contact with computers is the home desktop. They make comparisons based on what they do with their machines (play games, visit multimedia websites, install bonzai buddy style spyware etc.)
This is a total irrelevance for the vast majority of office workers who use PC as glorified typewriters. They do three things: document viewing/editing, browse the web, and send/receive viruses, I mean emails. And that's the advanced users, I'm not even talking about the machines that run one single application 24/7 at a drive-thru window or in an ATM.
All of this is easily done with open source desktops (except the virus bit). Remember, the last thing corporate IT wants is you installing anything yourself.
And once Linux desktops become common in the workplace, it's crazy to think home users won't be next. I'd already suggest Linux for grandmothers who just want to email/browse.
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
...
Anyway... Red Hat made it simple for me to connect to the net... (This is back when I used Red Hat 7) Red Hat has a bunch of GUI-based apps that get you online fast... Even faster if you use DHCP.
I use Red Hat 9 at work, and actually do all my (work) coding on Linux, so I'm about as used to it as I'm going to get. The font handling and internet configuration are still atrocious. They still don't work right. Font rendering and metrics are terrible, and getting our RH9 box set up as a server and internet router (our sysadmin was laid off) was agonizing, and in the end I had to do it all through the command line on both the server and the clients because the GUI tools they provided were incomplete and just didn't work. Maybe I missed something, but I have better things to do than search the online forums for solutions to problems that should never arise in the first place. And since our office has begun migrating to the Mac, I won't have to deal with it for much longer.
I agree that for an office computer it might catch on a little bit, as long as you never try to interact with anyone who uses Windows or try to do anything other than typing, but frankly any normal user who tries to use it at home is going to be severely disappointed for pretty much anything they try to do. Telling them to try a different poorly designed open source app to solve every little problem just doesn't cut it. I wouldn't recommend it to any user for any purpose... Linux simply does nothing that Windows and the Mac don't do better. I've never understood why anyone would want to use it, and I still don't.
1) As many others have pointed out, the better Linux gets the better Mac OS X gets. Technology and applications developed for Linux gets merged into Mac OS X. The more developers use standard, cross-platform APIs the less money needed to port applications to Mac OS X... so hopefully more applications get ported.
2) Linux on the desktop is here and now. A fundamental shift has occured in Linux over the past couple of years, focusing on an improved and CONSISTENT desktop experience. Companies that can afford it like RedHat and Novell (with Ximian) modify all the disparate Linux applications to have the same look and feel. Other distros focus on having one desktop environment, either KDE or GNOME, where all the applications use the same APIs and interoperate. Dragging and dropping, copying and pasting, menu bar at the top,* same look and feel... You get a more limited selection of applications, but the applications you do use are far more consistent and user friendly in general. Sounds like another OS we are all familiar with.
So I think that no, Linux will not result in Mac OS X left behind. Remember, Mac OS X will always have something Linux does not: fantastic interoperability between hardware and software. Also, for the forseeable future, Mac OS X will remain the most technologically advanced OS... Apple simply dedicates more time developing the most cutting edge frameworks.
Ya know, I just don't understand for the life of me why windows has the File Edit View...etc. menus on EACH window.
that's just clutter, nothing about it makes even a little sense, not only is it clutter, but it's potentially more confusing for the computer challenged.
I use Red Hat (at work). The copy and paste behaviour isn't Gnome's fault, it's just that it there isn't a global standard. One window manager doesn't provide all the applications I need (or the best apps for a given task). My preferred text editor is still xemacs ( I want vertical/horizontal splits in every app).
Quote:
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
From a software developer's point of view of font handling, Gnome could do with better (i.e. actually some) developer documentation. I'm sure it does what I want it to, I just have to hut around a bit. Some of it's good, some just headings. (I can't comment on KDE as I haven't used it).
You also have to realize that apple could take advantage of this and move some of its programs towards being linux compatible which i would imagine would be a whole helluva lot easier than porting the same programs to windows.
Not much (if anything -- someone clarify) besides QuickTime/iTunes is ported to Windows now anyway.
Linux is the next juggernaut. Apple better carve out it's niche better than what it has done in the past. With sleek and powerful hardware and the integerated suite of iLife applications, Apple has the edge for now in its own domain. Apple is dead the day they stop innovating and lucikly that hasn't happened for the past couple of decades.
I use Gentoo Linux on my desktop, the support forums are simply amazing. Any problem I ever had with configuration has been answered by those forums. I know some people don't have time to look up the answers for configuring computers but I think as the years go by and more and more people start regularly participating in forums the idea of an "open-source" tech support (like the AI Genius Bar, although lots of questions go unanswered there !) will be what people come to rely on. Most people hate having to go through the crap any kind of telephone support gives out, not to mention when a company denies that there actually is a problem and just reinstall your os from our system restore disks and it will all be fine etc. etc.
Gentoo has an awsome community and that's its real strength. Many enjoy the same community as Apple users, only Gentoo is free and can run on cheap PC hardware.
A word about KDE and Gnome... When I built my PC, first I installed Win XP because I knew how to do that then I went about installing Linux. After I finished installing Linux I went back to using Windows, which I thought was strange, so I decided to do an experiment. I set my bootloader to boot Linux automatically and decided to only use Linux for a weekend. Well after that weekend I kept using Linux and now it's actually irritating to have to load Windows (for my girlfriend or Korean input support). KDE and Gnome are just different from Windows and dont look so great "out of the box". With a little configuration they look fine and you really just stop noticing, of couse it's not the same as OS X but you pay a premium for that, but soon it may get close. I dont know if there is any kind of Quartz Extreme type x server in the works for Linux but if that comes about...well it's gonna be real ugly for Microsoft and Apple will have to keep on their toes.
Imagine being able to showcase a Linux desktop with the same amount of eye candy as OS X but it's on a PC and it's free !
Oh yeah and isn't Sun working on this now with that Looking Glass project of theirs...
How could Apple make sure they get in on this market and keep Linux from being the future OS of choice for the thrifty? This would seem to be an easy answer (and an idea that goes back a while).... port a version of X over to x86. Granted... one of the biggest benefits to running X on Apples hardware is the tight integration between the hardware and the OS... so the user experience on Apple hardware will likely be better for quite sometime... but I think an x86 port would be a real reasonable alternative to Windows. People could learn the OS on their current hardware... realize how much they like it... then go out and get one of those "cool" macs... Since they'll be familiar with the OS, they won't have to worry about going out to buy a new Mac and not knowing if they would be able to use it. I got my iBook as an alternative to a Windows notebook.... but I'm sure alot of people would rather just put a new OS on their current hardware... my PC notebook is a 2.6GHz P4.... most people won't go out an buy a new notebook when the one they have is more than powerful enough. And lets not forget that Microsoft made their $$ on their software.... not hardware... so as the movement to move away from Microsoft continues... it would be nice to have OS X placed to take advantage of that early on.
Ya know, I just don't understand for the life of me why windows has the File Edit View...etc. menus on EACH window.
that's just clutter, nothing about it makes even a little sense, not only is it clutter, but it's potentially more confusing for the computer challenged.
I believe it's because Apple would have sued them if they ripped off Apple too closely. Well, a combination of that and the fact that the guys at Microsoft had no real idea of the concepts behind what they were copying and it was mostly monkey see, monkey do.
This is what I don't understand... why the hell do people keep moding their non-OSX desktops to look like OSX? I mean with linux it it not that bad (but I still don't like it) but some of the Windows themes make me want to puke. I like the aqua look but only if it is on Apple Hardware.
I use Gentoo Linux on my desktop, the support forums are simply amazing. Any problem I ever had with configuration has been answered by those forums. I know some people don't have time to look up the answers for configuring computers but I think as the years go by and more and more people start regularly participating in forums the idea of an "open-source" tech support (like the AI Genius Bar, although lots of questions go unanswered there !) will be what people come to rely on. Most people hate having to go through the crap any kind of telephone support gives out, not to mention when a company denies that there actually is a problem and just reinstall your os from our system restore disks and it will all be fine etc. etc.
--snip-pa-de-snip-snip--
The Linux community is growing strong. I like the fact that you can talk to real people who are users just like you... It makes things much less frustrating when dealing with problems... Sometimes I just wanna tie a plastic bag around telephone support people... they just sit there with a "in case of this... then do this..." book and talk to you like a child. Don't get me wrong... to the average user this works fine... but for someone like me, phone support is when I have done all the text-book examples and want to get help from someone who knows what they are talking about.
A few weeks ago I called Bell Sympatico for some support (a client of mine could not get online because sockets were corrupted on a Win98 box that I was fixing) and after telling the support lady what I have done... and what I think the problem is she made me do it all over again, and told every step as if I was two. Anyway after over an hour doing "quick fixes" for her amusement she said that she would have to take me to the next level... I was transfered to level 2 tech support. There, another girl asked me one question and by my response she quickly started talking to me in geek so we could be on the same page without feeling like we were following a book... she also noted how refreshing it was to talk to someone without "dumbing it down". We even spent some time flurting over the phone (this brings to mind how some calls are recorded for evaluation) ... too bad she lived in St. John. Anyway, the problem was solved in less than ten minutes.
I know this system works for the average user but for me this was a headache that could have been over with less of my time used on doing "by the book quick fixes" The Linux community is easy to talk to and if you have a question that is a little more technical then your answers will be technical to the same respect. This gets the job done.
I use Red Hat 9 at work, and actually do all my (work) coding on Linux, so I'm about as used to it as I'm going to get. The font handling and internet configuration are still atrocious. They still don't work right. Font rendering and metrics are terrible, and getting our RH9 box set up as a server and internet router (our sysadmin was laid off) was agonizing, and in the end I had to do it all through the command line on both the server and the clients because the GUI tools they provided were incomplete and just didn't work. Maybe I missed something, but I have better things to do than search the online forums for solutions to problems that should never arise in the first place. And since our office has begun migrating to the Mac, I won't have to deal with it for much longer.
I agree that for an office computer it might catch on a little bit, as long as you never try to interact with anyone who uses Windows or try to do anything other than typing, but frankly any normal user who tries to use it at home is going to be severely disappointed for pretty much anything they try to do. Telling them to try a different poorly designed open source app to solve every little problem just doesn't cut it. I wouldn't recommend it to any user for any purpose... Linux simply does nothing that Windows and the Mac don't do better. I've never understood why anyone would want to use it, and I still don't.
1337 haXoR sKiLz notwithstanding.
Red Hat worked fine for me... well when it came to setting up my system and network. One thing you have to make do is install everything under the sun... some gui-based apps are just front-ends to command like apps so when the command line app is not there or missing one small part/lib then the gui-based app will not work.
Also, I would never want to fire a sysadmin... I have heard many horror stories about angry sysadmins doing dammage to the networks they were once paied to protect.
Linux interacts well with Windows computers... networking is smooth and easy to setup, printer sharing works well, and using the .doc file format is not that bad.
And as for the just typing comment... common man...
Linux can be used foe many if not all server jobs. Linux is not limited to just typing in the office...
Comments
Originally posted by Aquatic
I don't think I've evern seen a single piece of software in a store for Linux. Might have seen a Linux distro once or twice in a Staples or something.
DMB is right Linux sucks for a desktop. And it always will. It's not a hard concept: no company = no support phone number to call, no number to call to buy software. Duh? Still more Linux anywhere is a good thing because it's an easy port to Mac and it's Not MS.
One) There is a company... in-fact many companies the provide support for Linux. Depending on the distro you may get free support for quite a bit of time after you buy a retail boxed Linux OS. Red Hat is a great example of this, they provide great support for their Linux distro. Suse is another. However if you don't feel like paying 1/8 of what Windows costs and download it for free then the linux community (sites like www.linuxquestions.org and many IRC rooms) provides all the support you need... who better to help you then die-hard zealots? (psst... if you want to get help quick just post that linux sucks because [place problem here] and people will rush to help you)
Two) Why would you need a number to buy software? All GPL software is free to download... and most of it is really good.
redhat
mandrake (not-so-big but still)
and big tech firms are buying/ using/reselling linux all the time
Ever heard of a quaint little company out of New York called IBM how many million/billion do they have riding on linux, not to mention a huge chunk of ibm's future
Originally posted by Fluffy
--snip--
The downside is that linux is an extraordinarily wretched user experience, compared both to the Mac and (to a lesser extent) Windows. If people begin to equate unix with linux, they may never consider the Mac, assuming that anything based on unix will have the same issues.
True but linux is not that bad, experience wise, if the user is open to learning a new platform. The problem is that the average user expects Linux to do everything Windows can do out of the box, which some distros do, but this is not the main aspect of Linux... this takes a back seat to a server centric OS that requires a deep understanding of how the OS works, which is (no, really) one of Linux's strong points. I think Linux can do really well in the desktop arena if the average user gives many distros a chance and does not write off Linux after one bad run-in.
Originally posted by a_greer
Ever heard of a quaint little company out of New York called IBM how many million/billion do they have riding on linux, not to mention a huge chunk of ibm's future
True... I am quite glad IBM has put so much weight behind Linux. The great outcomes are limitless...
Originally posted by \\/\\/ickes
True but linux is not that bad, experience wise, if the user is open to learning a new platform.
Ah, but I think you're talking about the user interface, which is really quite similar to Windows. I'm talking about things like font handling and rendering, consistency of UI across applications (not the UI itself), consistent drag&drop, consistent cut&paste, easy GUI-based networking and server setup... these things should just work, and work well. This isn't even mentioning things like advanced graphics compositing, systemwide color correction, web/mail/OS integration... all the things that make proprietary operating systems a joy to use. It really has nothing to do with learning the system.
I think Linux can do really well in the desktop arena if the average user gives many distros a chance and does not write off Linux after one bad run-in.
But that's just what the average user will never do. Downloading and installing open source software isn't something that average users are willing to do, free or not. Configuring their OS isn't something they're going to do. The first time they double click on a .doc file and openoffice mangles it (as it does most of the time) they're simply going to re-install Windows, not search the internet for a better doc translator. How do I play .wmv files? How do I play a .mov? I like Internet Explorer... where is it? How do I play flash files? How do I connect to the internet for God's sake... redhat certainly doesn't make it easy for an average user, but maybe the other distros are better I don't know.
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
Originally posted by Fluffy
Ah, but I think you're talking about the user interface, which is really quite similar to Windows. I'm talking about things like font handling and rendering, consistency of UI across applications (not the UI itself), consistent drag&drop, consistent cut&paste, easy GUI-based networking and server setup... these things should just work, and work well. This isn't even mentioning things like advanced graphics compositing, systemwide color correction, web/mail/OS integration... all the things that make proprietary operating systems a joy to use. It really has nothing to do with learning the system.
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
Consistency of UI across all apps can be done if you only use apps writen with the same tool kit... like GTK or Qt. Hell, KDE has almost every type of program you need written with Qt and all app's UIs change with the theme you set.
Consistency of cut and paste can be done in the same fashion. You will just need to stick with one WM.
Easy GUI-based networking and server setup can be found in such distros as Red Hat and Knoppix. Knoppix is a really good example of easy setup.
It does have to do with learning the OS... because the more you learn the better things get. Linux can be as uniform as you make it... which I think is one of it's stronger points.
Originally posted by Fluffy
But that's just what the average user will never do. Downloading and installing open source software isn't something that average users are willing to do, free or not. Configuring their OS isn't something they're going to do. The first time they double click on a .doc file and openoffice mangles it (as it does most of the time) they're simply going to re-install Windows, not search the internet for a better doc translator. How do I play .wmv files? How do I play a .mov? I like Internet Explorer... where is it? How do I play flash files? How do I connect to the internet for God's sake... redhat certainly doesn't make it easy for an average user, but maybe the other distros are better I don't know.
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
FYI Flash works in linux, but only in a browser/stand alone player. And with a little work Quicktime and WindowsMedia will play too... but the support is not great.
Anyway... Red Hat made it simple for me to connect to the net... (This is back when I used Red Hat 7) Red Hat has a bunch of GUI-based apps that get you online fast... Even faster if you use DHCP. I like the idea of the control you have over your system. The "it just works" idea, however great, leaves me wondering just how much control I have. Now I use Slackware... I config most things by editing text files... and following detailed HOWTOs. This gives me a fine control over my system and makem me feel like my computer does just what I tell it to. While this may not be what the average user wants in an OS... it makes me happy.
OOo my not do the best job at translating .doc files but a .doc file is from another program (closed source) on another OS...
But what if you start writing your docs using OOo... and the people who are reading them use OOo... well then you have a free (great) office environment that works just as good as MS Office. All this needs is a greater user base, which will come in time.
Linux will start to hit the office before it hits the home. And that may be sooner than you think.
Originally posted by Fluffy
I don't see Linux going anywhere in the home market.
This is often a problem when discussing this issue with people who's primary contact with computers is the home desktop. They make comparisons based on what they do with their machines (play games, visit multimedia websites, install bonzai buddy style spyware etc.)
This is a total irrelevance for the vast majority of office workers who use PC as glorified typewriters. They do three things: document viewing/editing, browse the web, and send/receive viruses, I mean emails. And that's the advanced users, I'm not even talking about the machines that run one single application 24/7 at a drive-thru window or in an ATM.
All of this is easily done with open source desktops (except the virus bit). Remember, the last thing corporate IT wants is you installing anything yourself.
And once Linux desktops become common in the workplace, it's crazy to think home users won't be next. I'd already suggest Linux for grandmothers who just want to email/browse.
Originally posted by \\/\\/ickes
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
...
Anyway... Red Hat made it simple for me to connect to the net... (This is back when I used Red Hat 7) Red Hat has a bunch of GUI-based apps that get you online fast... Even faster if you use DHCP.
I use Red Hat 9 at work, and actually do all my (work) coding on Linux, so I'm about as used to it as I'm going to get. The font handling and internet configuration are still atrocious. They still don't work right. Font rendering and metrics are terrible, and getting our RH9 box set up as a server and internet router (our sysadmin was laid off) was agonizing, and in the end I had to do it all through the command line on both the server and the clients because the GUI tools they provided were incomplete and just didn't work. Maybe I missed something, but I have better things to do than search the online forums for solutions to problems that should never arise in the first place. And since our office has begun migrating to the Mac, I won't have to deal with it for much longer.
I agree that for an office computer it might catch on a little bit, as long as you never try to interact with anyone who uses Windows or try to do anything other than typing, but frankly any normal user who tries to use it at home is going to be severely disappointed for pretty much anything they try to do. Telling them to try a different poorly designed open source app to solve every little problem just doesn't cut it. I wouldn't recommend it to any user for any purpose... Linux simply does nothing that Windows and the Mac don't do better. I've never understood why anyone would want to use it, and I still don't.
1337 haXoR sKiLz notwithstanding.
2) Linux on the desktop is here and now. A fundamental shift has occured in Linux over the past couple of years, focusing on an improved and CONSISTENT desktop experience. Companies that can afford it like RedHat and Novell (with Ximian) modify all the disparate Linux applications to have the same look and feel. Other distros focus on having one desktop environment, either KDE or GNOME, where all the applications use the same APIs and interoperate. Dragging and dropping, copying and pasting, menu bar at the top,* same look and feel... You get a more limited selection of applications, but the applications you do use are far more consistent and user friendly in general. Sounds like another OS we are all familiar with.
So I think that no, Linux will not result in Mac OS X left behind. Remember, Mac OS X will always have something Linux does not: fantastic interoperability between hardware and software. Also, for the forseeable future, Mac OS X will remain the most technologically advanced OS... Apple simply dedicates more time developing the most cutting edge frameworks.
Barto
*Message to Microsoft: Where it belongs, fsckers!
Originally posted by Barto
copying and pasting, menu bar at the top,*
*Message to Microsoft: Where it belongs, fsckers!
Ya know, I just don't understand for the life of me why windows has the File Edit View...etc. menus on EACH window.
that's just clutter, nothing about it makes even a little sense, not only is it clutter, but it's potentially more confusing for the computer challenged.
Font handeling and rendering is easly managed within desktop environments like KDE and Gnome... I think they do a great job at it too...
From a software developer's point of view of font handling, Gnome could do with better (i.e. actually some) developer documentation. I'm sure it does what I want it to, I just have to hut around a bit. Some of it's good, some just headings. (I can't comment on KDE as I haven't used it).
Originally posted by billybobsky
You also have to realize that apple could take advantage of this and move some of its programs towards being linux compatible which i would imagine would be a whole helluva lot easier than porting the same programs to windows.
Not much (if anything -- someone clarify) besides QuickTime/iTunes is ported to Windows now anyway.
First Picture ( sort of reminds os9 but butifull )
Aqua Based machine
Mandrake linux
a Theme but you can fix it to be exacly like os-x
Gentoo has an awsome community and that's its real strength. Many enjoy the same community as Apple users, only Gentoo is free and can run on cheap PC hardware.
A word about KDE and Gnome... When I built my PC, first I installed Win XP because I knew how to do that then I went about installing Linux. After I finished installing Linux I went back to using Windows, which I thought was strange, so I decided to do an experiment. I set my bootloader to boot Linux automatically and decided to only use Linux for a weekend. Well after that weekend I kept using Linux and now it's actually irritating to have to load Windows (for my girlfriend or Korean input support). KDE and Gnome are just different from Windows and dont look so great "out of the box". With a little configuration they look fine and you really just stop noticing, of couse it's not the same as OS X but you pay a premium for that, but soon it may get close. I dont know if there is any kind of Quartz Extreme type x server in the works for Linux but if that comes about...well it's gonna be real ugly for Microsoft and Apple will have to keep on their toes.
Imagine being able to showcase a Linux desktop with the same amount of eye candy as OS X but it's on a PC and it's free !
Oh yeah and isn't Sun working on this now with that Looking Glass project of theirs...
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Ya know, I just don't understand for the life of me why windows has the File Edit View...etc. menus on EACH window.
that's just clutter, nothing about it makes even a little sense, not only is it clutter, but it's potentially more confusing for the computer challenged.
I believe it's because Apple would have sued them if they ripped off Apple too closely. Well, a combination of that and the fact that the guys at Microsoft had no real idea of the concepts behind what they were copying and it was mostly monkey see, monkey do.
Check out question 5 of the following quiz for more: http://www.asktog.com/columns/022Des...GiveFitts.html
Originally posted by hack4ev3r
Here are some mac like linux's based on kde 3.2
First Picture ( sort of reminds os9 but butifull )
Aqua Based machine
Mandrake linux
a Theme but you can fix it to be exacly like os-x
This is what I don't understand... why the hell do people keep moding their non-OSX desktops to look like OSX? I mean with linux it it not that bad (but I still don't like it) but some of the Windows themes make me want to puke. I like the aqua look but only if it is on Apple Hardware.
Originally posted by AsLan^
I use Gentoo Linux on my desktop, the support forums are simply amazing. Any problem I ever had with configuration has been answered by those forums. I know some people don't have time to look up the answers for configuring computers but I think as the years go by and more and more people start regularly participating in forums the idea of an "open-source" tech support (like the AI Genius Bar, although lots of questions go unanswered there !) will be what people come to rely on. Most people hate having to go through the crap any kind of telephone support gives out, not to mention when a company denies that there actually is a problem and just reinstall your os from our system restore disks and it will all be fine etc. etc.
--snip-pa-de-snip-snip--
The Linux community is growing strong. I like the fact that you can talk to real people who are users just like you... It makes things much less frustrating when dealing with problems... Sometimes I just wanna tie a plastic bag around telephone support people... they just sit there with a "in case of this... then do this..." book and talk to you like a child. Don't get me wrong... to the average user this works fine... but for someone like me, phone support is when I have done all the text-book examples and want to get help from someone who knows what they are talking about.
A few weeks ago I called Bell Sympatico for some support (a client of mine could not get online because sockets were corrupted on a Win98 box that I was fixing) and after telling the support lady what I have done... and what I think the problem is she made me do it all over again, and told every step as if I was two. Anyway after over an hour doing "quick fixes" for her amusement she said that she would have to take me to the next level... I was transfered to level 2 tech support. There, another girl asked me one question and by my response she quickly started talking to me in geek so we could be on the same page without feeling like we were following a book... she also noted how refreshing it was to talk to someone without "dumbing it down". We even spent some time flurting over the phone (this brings to mind how some calls are recorded for evaluation) ... too bad she lived in St. John. Anyway, the problem was solved in less than ten minutes.
I know this system works for the average user but for me this was a headache that could have been over with less of my time used on doing "by the book quick fixes" The Linux community is easy to talk to and if you have a question that is a little more technical then your answers will be technical to the same respect. This gets the job done.
Originally posted by Fluffy
I use Red Hat 9 at work, and actually do all my (work) coding on Linux, so I'm about as used to it as I'm going to get. The font handling and internet configuration are still atrocious. They still don't work right. Font rendering and metrics are terrible, and getting our RH9 box set up as a server and internet router (our sysadmin was laid off) was agonizing, and in the end I had to do it all through the command line on both the server and the clients because the GUI tools they provided were incomplete and just didn't work. Maybe I missed something, but I have better things to do than search the online forums for solutions to problems that should never arise in the first place. And since our office has begun migrating to the Mac, I won't have to deal with it for much longer.
I agree that for an office computer it might catch on a little bit, as long as you never try to interact with anyone who uses Windows or try to do anything other than typing, but frankly any normal user who tries to use it at home is going to be severely disappointed for pretty much anything they try to do. Telling them to try a different poorly designed open source app to solve every little problem just doesn't cut it. I wouldn't recommend it to any user for any purpose... Linux simply does nothing that Windows and the Mac don't do better. I've never understood why anyone would want to use it, and I still don't.
1337 haXoR sKiLz notwithstanding.
Red Hat worked fine for me... well when it came to setting up my system and network. One thing you have to make do is install everything under the sun... some gui-based apps are just front-ends to command like apps so when the command line app is not there or missing one small part/lib then the gui-based app will not work.
Also, I would never want to fire a sysadmin... I have heard many horror stories about angry sysadmins doing dammage to the networks they were once paied to protect.
Linux interacts well with Windows computers... networking is smooth and easy to setup, printer sharing works well, and using the .doc file format is not that bad.
And as for the just typing comment... common man...
Linux can be used foe many if not all server jobs. Linux is not limited to just typing in the office...