New PM's indicate Power4?
Spymac is reporting on the new PM's power supply, 700W! Double the previous towers capacity, why you ask? Some think new chips are on the horizon while others believe Apple had other plans for this case that fell through.
In the discussion following the article someone posted a chart of other machines and the power supplys they contain, the only other machines that come close are the IBM pSeries dual and quad Power4 Servers.
In the discussion following the article someone posted a chart of other machines and the power supplys they contain, the only other machines that come close are the IBM pSeries dual and quad Power4 Servers.
Comments
The current stop gap motherboard being end product of it..if Moki is to be believed.
Maybe a 'G5' was to be here sooner but it got cancelled and Apple went with 'hold over' G4s.
Well. They're not even that. We've had all the other configurations before.
1.25. Well. That's new. But it all smacks of 'end of the line' to me. Half assed mobo/ddr hackserve. If this is the same G4 chip...then it seems 'maxed out'. The 7500 was removed from Moto's website. This could indicate a desktop 'G5' cancellation. There's no link to indicate a 7470 exists. That being the case. Good news for an IBM G5 relatively soon. But rumours have abounded of Moto' taking the G4 up to 2 gig. At current rates of going...we may not see a 'Power4lite' until 2004! Very depressing!!!
Yields on higher mhz G4s either fell thru' or Moto' has stopped developing the G4.
But...if the G4 is migrating into consumer Apples...then you'd think the G4 would clock a little higher than 1.25...if its going to last another year or so in consumer lines?
I think new pMs do indicate a next gen processor is looming.
How long will these current G4s last? To next march at the latest, I'd guess.
1.25 gig G4s...vs Any Athlon Hammer chip?
I can't see Apple and Jobs not having their own 64 bit retort to the Hammer.
The hammer may get here sooner eg Jan 2003. But I don't think the 'G5' will be more than half a year later. Summer 2003 at the latest.
In time to coincide with Pinot?
Lemon Bon Bon
[ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: Lemon Bon Bon ]</p>
<a href="http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmg4_august2002_480.html"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmg4_august2002_480.html</a>;
And I must admit, one thing that stands out is that ENORMOUS heat-sink... That thing is definitely the largest heat-sink I've ever seen on a desktop box. It's definitely designed to maximize surface area. Not only that, but the slew of holes that strategically placed also raise a few questions.
Almost the ENTIRE rear of the case is lined with holes. The front panel has 4 vent-holes and if I'm not seeing things, the area under the front foot is also closed off with what appears to be a screen of some sort. I definitely see some perforations. Obviously this allows cool air to be drawn from the bottom. Additionally, there are two fans! Not only that, but one of them is HUGE and is mounted in the direct path allowing air to flow across the fins of the heat-sink. and out the rear of the case. The smaller fan seems to draw air across the underside (reverse side?) of the motherboard. Whatever Apple has going on, this thing seems to be designed to move a LOT of air. Surely the G4's, even in dual configuration do not need this much cooling. This design is definitely overkill for this particular application. I have 2 possible explanations...
Either this case is designed for a MONSTER processor (or more ;-) that would require the cooling or the heat-sink itself is designed to be large not only to effectively cool the unit, but also to (maybe) conceal additional circuitry housing or encapsulating it or even covering it in some way (just a guess). Somewhat of a Trojan horse. The question seems to be.. What secrets is Apple hiding and what do these clues tell us?
--
Ed
Maybe they did have bigger plans but thats no consilation...hopefully the g5 is right around the corner
[ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: O and A ]</p>
That's one of the reasons why most modern power supplies are "global" supplies, i.e. they work with inputs ranging from 100V-240V, 50Hz-60Hz, etc.
A modern CPU consumes about 50-75 Watts (I'm doing major handwaving here!), so a 700W power supply is definitely enough to power a couple of those, plus several other power-hungry devices. 4 hard drives suck a lot of power.
The limiting factor here may be cooling, not supplying enough power to the box.
Note the massive cooling capacity, heat sink, and now HUGE MOTHER OF A POWER SUPPLY. 700 WATTS :eek:
Drives? Sure, but even the QS's could take 4 HDD's if you put a RAID or SCSI in there. 2 Opticals? All my PC's readily handle that without such a beast of a PSU.
Uh-un, somethings cooking... I hope it's ready soon.
Oh well....
D
<strong>Someone just made a post to that thread that burst the bubble... The owner of a brand new 867DP opened up his machine and the power supply is rated for 400W not 700W+ ...
D</strong><hr></blockquote>
He based his guess on the maximum line input current. Possibly this new supply is designed to operated at a lower input voltage, like in Japan where it is something like 100 VAC nominal and can go to 90 or 95 VAC. The lower the input voltage, the higher the current for that same power out. He said he based his estimate on an input of 117 VAC. Also, I don't think he took efficiency into account, and no power supply has a 100 percent conversion efficiency.
[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: snoopy ]</p>
...if the case is ready and not the chip, then I, myselft, would want to fall back to higher clocked G4's. The chip in those <a href="http://www.geocities.com/willywalloo/"; target="_blank">leaked</a> pictures are showing chips that don't look like the G4 chips as of current.
The thing is that if they don't get enough successful chips per wafer, than the full-blown manufacturing process must be optimized, and therefore must be put off for the time being: thus the older chips are used. Hey, we don't want a peice of crap that fly's faster, but no crap and a good overall computer engine.
-walloo
p.s. waiting is good, but let's not milk it. Put money into the project; as money and time are sometimes inversly related.
[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: willywalloo ]
[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: willywalloo ]</p>
And if they were going to change to a G5 or some super-power hungry chip, wouldn't that be the time to dramatically change the case? Why plan on offering a radically new CPU on the inside with a variant of el capitan that's four years old now on the outside? It doesn't make sense.
And if they were going to change to a G5 or some super-power hungry chip, wouldn't that be the time to dramatically change the case? Why plan on offering a radically new CPU on the inside with a variant of el capitan that's four years old now on the outside? It doesn't make sense.<hr></blockquote>
If we follow the power supply/daughter board theory, and Apple didn't get the chip they wanted for this mobo revision, doesn't it follow that they would have just tarted up the El Cap case and shoved everything inside. After all--it does really look like a last minute mess compared to the usual Ive fare.
There are other reasons to increase the cooling of the new machines.
1. The new 1.25 GHz machine (as far as I know) is built on the same process as the old one and therefore will use more power. Having two of them close together would require a pretty good heat sink.
2. Additional drives in the case adds to the heat load and cooling requirements.
3. The rearrangement of the case may make air flow not as efficient as the old one.
4. A lose of free (air) space in the case means that it will heat up faster inside.
5. Improving the heat sinks and number of fans may allow slower air movements and reduced noise. (pure speculation)
I did not design the case but do understand some of the requirements that would go into designing such a case. Most of the things people are pointing to: extra fans, big heatsink, or larger power supply (which hasn't been proven) are all things Apple would be crazy for putting in unless needed. Even if there were a last minute change, it wouldn't make financial sense to keep these things in place. They could easily be added if a new processor were installed.
It's late, I'm going to bed.
-CFPC
Any I/O enhancements could be made to this case without a change in it's basic style.
<strong> Given that, don't you think Steve Jobs had to do something, stop gap or not, to revitalize the line a little? Just take a look at apple.com. What do you see on the home page? Only the Powermac right? It goes into great detail about all the new improvements and everything that's changed. I mean you guys keep asking everyone why they changed the case without a new generation, I think its pretty damn obvious, he had to do something, and this was probably the case designed a year ago for this revision. It's possible that this was intended for the future chips, but who will ever know, and who cares, seriously. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Agree. The powermac sales are way down. From around 220 K units/Q to 168 K units last Q. Apple has never sold fewer Powermacs. If the trend continues, Apple is going to lose just about all its pro-customers.
<strong>
Agree. The powermac sales are way down. From around 220 K units/Q to 168 K units last Q. Apple has never sold fewer Powermacs. If the trend continues, Apple is going to lose just about all its pro-customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>
even though apple saleman in apple store kept showing how cool the new powermac was, no single one in the crowd bought one over 3 hours i spent there. also even those sales are not that high on selling them.
i briefly looked the mobo of dual 1.25 ghz and found that some parts on certain mobo area are not used or soldered. it looks like a testboard before the final production. maybe it is just a demo version for apple store. i will check back whether it is the case on other two models.
agree. g4 has too long life for top of line power mac. and it is the time for apple to have another
breed. usually it takes 4-6 months for companies like apple to create a new platform. moto's foes started half year ago and if g5 is not coming at all, then apple definitely is working on something new.
First of all, I remember that when the dual 1Ghz PM came out, everyone was saying about how these screamed "stop gap." So what, now these are stop gaps, for stop gaps? Sad. Really Sad.
Second of all, those pictures of the PM case proved correct. In one of the pictures the CPU was clearly seen as mounted diagonally on the daughter card. But if you look at pics on Apples site, the proc's are no longer mounted diagonaly, but in the tradition horizontal. What happened? Those pictures wernt fakes.
And also since those pictures turned out correct, could the PDF that accompaned them also be correct. It predicted a massive 7lb heat sink. Which untill anyone puts the new ones on a scale, could very well be true becuase of size. Then possibly the words "G5 ready" are also true.
I wonder, designing a whole new system controler purely as a stop gap seems... idiotic. Is it possible that the new controller can not only run DDR memory bus, but also a DDR FSB, and is just currently underclocked because of limitation in the G4?
Oh and PS: The CPU in the leaked pictures looked exactly like the current G4. However judging a new cpu simply by looking at it is folly. If no changes are done to the die size, or cache, it could look exactly the same.
[ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: Falcon ]</p>
I thing the new PS indicates something, but I'm juat as sure, (judging from history), that Apple did it's best to thwart upgrades... stiil, I'm ordering a Dual 1.25GHz as long as I can figure out how to get the $500 rebate on a 23" HD LCD, that expires bout the time they ship!
PS. My secret hope is that since none has seen the top model, that it actually is the new IBM chip! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />