what to charge for a site?
hey im a high school student studying graphic design and my friend asked me to do a site for his company (he is also a high school student, but a grade below me) it looks to be a basic 7 page site that needs a layout and all the content put in int, my question is what do i charge him or base my pricing on?
any help would be greatly welcome.
any help would be greatly welcome.
Comments
Originally posted by millhouse
hey im a high school student studying graphic design and my friend asked me to do a site for his company (he is also a high school student, but a grade below me) it looks to be a basic 7 page site that needs a layout and all the content put in int, my question is what do i charge him or base my pricing on?
any help would be greatly welcome.
first of all, i am going to state the obvious... if you are in high school, make sure you are old enough to charge for work. and if you're friend is starting a "company," he does have to be a certain age to be selling anything, even services.
now, welcome aboard the hardest question to answer -- what do i charge???
well, a lot of it depends on what the market will bear. check around with other designers or ISPs who offer "design" in your area. there must be a few. in the city near where i live, people can charge anywhere between $1000 and $15000 per site. yet immediately in my area and smaller towns, i get laughed at if i ask for more than $500, or even $25/hour. when i was in toronto, i could get US$40 per hour without worry. but then cost of living was much higher there, too.
since you're in high school, you will have to crank back your expectations, no matter your skill level.
quote an hourly rate with an estimated amount of work time per page, because i guarantee that if you quote a flat fee, they will drag you along for a ridiculous amount of time with small changes. and remember, most web designers are asked to be coders AND marketing people AND designers AND copy editors, even if they don't say so. if at all possible, get them to sketch out what they want from you.
that's something to get you started. sorry no dollar amount, but it will swing wildly if you are in new york versus boise, idaho.
and as is my friend, his company does quite a bit of work, as far as kids with companie's go he is quite well known for quality work, but i guess ill have to go with the hourly rate thing since that seems the best, maybe 10-20 an hour seems reasonable as it doesnt look like itll be a big big site.
make sure that you'll still want to work for them at what you charge them. nothing is worse when you work for yourself than selling yourself short.
i do tech support on the side for people. initially i charged $20 an hour. i still charge my first customers $20 an hour, becaue they've been loyal, but new customers get charged $70 an hour. that has crept up over the years, but believe me, eventually you'll reach a point where you're not even remotely interested in doing the work for less than a much bigger amount of money than where you started.
if someone asked me to fix their windows box for $20 an hour i'd laugh and decline today. when i was in highschool i would have jumped at the chance.
Most people like to have a flat rate for this stuff anyway, you just have to get good at estimating what is fair compensation for the job. When I'm deciding that, I also take into account how much money the client has, and through meetings begin tossing out various figures that span a wide range to see how the client reacts to different numbers. it is all part of honing in on that magic number.
Another thing. When you set your deadlines, never, ever miss them. In fact, if you think a job will take four weeks, quote the client five or six. That way when you come in a week early, you look better.
Originally posted by LoCash
I write up the terms in a workscope outlining exactly what it is the client wants. If the client deviates from that workscope, I wave it in front of them and tell them, "That request is out of scope and will be billed at our normal hourly rate of _____."
i had a job, two jobs ago, where we (my partner and i) gave the client a flat rate (well below what we wanted). he dicked us around a bit, but eventually we got through what he wanted us to do. so payday is coming, right? no, he wants us to do a bunch more pages. ok, fine. we do em. now some more, then more. and well, we just said no eventually. and still haven't got paid. i think he ran off somewhere.
so, the job after that, we decide we're gonna have it all written out, so its clear for all parties exactly what is expected, at what price and when, and all that. this is our plan going in to see the client. client is like "well, that price is way out of my range." so we cut it down. and, he dont like writing up a formalized plan neither. so, basically, that was the end of that job. we probably would'v still done the work if he was willing to put up some green, but it seemed like that was a dead end.
work sucks.
My father still owes me nearly $300 for finishing a site of his.
I don't plan to forget that either. Jerk.
That's why I always go with -
Half of estimate or agreed-upon price up front, and the remainder upon completion, with an agreed-upon price for additional pages or content edits beyond two rounds.
You don't have enough experience to justify charging anything.
He's a friend, take the time to do a nice site - make it look good for both yourself and him.
Once it's up and done you can then use it as a sample of your ability.
Doing it for free doesn't mean you can't be strict about the hours you put in and the scope of the project.
Define the site, "pretend" it's a job you are getting paid for, do it fast and well.
When it's done, if he's your friend and not merely a buddy or acquaintance, he will off you money and you can take it.
If he doesn't offer you anything then he wasn't your friend but a user.
If you need to eat into your personal time over and above the goofing-around-on-computer time that you already allot yourself, then ok, ask for money before during or after.
But unless you have a lot of experience working or are obscenely talented I don't think you should ask more than $20-$40 and hour.
All in my humble opinion, of course
another would be that you do work for your family for free. then they owe you big time when you need a favor.
like when my parents ponied up the $6,000 we needed to get our house. (we're paying them back) but it was nice that they couldn't really say no since i'd done so much for them in the past.
Anyhow, I always do a workscope with my clients. You can present it to them in a not so intimidating way. After a meeting or two, I write up a document outlining everything. I make sure they agree with it. If the client has such a problem with agreeing to a timeline, I'm not going to work for them anyway, because they're just going to end up ****ing me. I mean, think about it for a minute. A workscope is in both parties' best interest.
I also normally charge one third or one half of the project's cost up front as a retainer for my services I waive this only rarely. I've been screwed enough to know better, and if the client doesn't want to make sure we're both protected, then I just walk away.
Originally posted by alcimedes
well, i suppose that's one way to look at it Brad.
another would be that you do work for your family for free. then they owe you big time when you need a favor.
I suppose the difference here is that my father is a cheap, good-for-nothing swindler. I have never once in my life been able to rely on him for favors or even for fulfilling his own promises. He paid me for most of my work, but as usual, he took advantage of me as being family and ripped me off.
He hasn't helped me with my university tuition, my bills, nothing important since I was 9 years old. I thought that this one time I would be able to trust him since this was more of a "business" transaction, but no.
I digress...
Originally posted by ipodandimac
dont charge anything
Is that smiley a concurring to my post or merely mocking it
I don't know his experience or talent but if it's his first few projects I can't see charging for it. Getting a reward or being compensated over a certain amount of work perhaps. And don't stand for someone that starts to take advantage of the deal.
Definitely define scope and limit time but charging a friend without having much experience isn't starting off on the right foot.
But you say it's for his "company" so...."buyer beware" (for him) and "charge what the market will bear" (for you)...
Originally posted by Brad
I suppose the difference here is that my father is a cheap, good-for-nothing swindler. I have never once in my life been able to rely on him for favors or even for fulfilling his own promises. He paid me for most of my work, but as usual, he took advantage of me as being family and ripped me off.
He hasn't helped me with my university tuition, my bills, nothing important since I was 9 years old. I thought that this one time I would be able to trust him since this was more of a "business" transaction, but no.
I digress...
Woah, this is General Discussion, not the Armchair Psych Lounge
Originally posted by johnq
Is that smiley a concurring to my post or merely mocking it
I don't know his experience or talent but if it's his first few projects I can't see charging for it. Getting a reward or being compensated over a certain amount of work perhaps. And don't stand for someone that starts to take advantage of the deal.
Definitely define scope and limit time but charging a friend without having much experience isn't starting off on the right foot.
But you say it's for his "company" so...."buyer beware" (for him) and "charge what the market will bear" (for you)...
oh my bad--i misread the original post (my response was to that).
but anyways--in high school, theres nothing wrong with doing things for free. jsut make sure your name is on the site somewhere! i did countless video projects for free or for a very small fee when i was in high school, and trust me, if you do a good job, either people will give you money anyways, or they pay more next time. its all about getting your name and rep out there.
Originally posted by LoCash
Woah, this is General Discussion, not the Armchair Psych Lounge
You rang?