Gaming is the main reason people don't want Macs, eh? Tell me what advantage Apple would gain by catering to gamers? They buy a computer and then upgrade the video card. Upgrade the RAM. Upgrade the HD. They don't buy new computers, they just upgrade them. That doesn't gain Apple any money.
Gamers consistently overestimate their importance to the computer world. It goes well with their malformed sense of self, I suppose.
Gaming is the main reason people don't want Macs, eh? Tell me what advantage Apple would gain by catering to gamers? They buy a computer and then upgrade the video card. Upgrade the RAM. Upgrade the HD. They don't buy new computers, they just upgrade them. That doesn't gain Apple any money.
What does Apple gain? Have you missed all the other posts? If Mac caters to gamers, the parents will buy macs (games for children) as well as hundreds of thousands of casual PC users. So basically people will switch.
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
Gamers consistently overestimate their importance to the computer world.
And non-gaming mac users tend to have an inferiority complex when dealing with the issue.
I though macvoyer's idea was pretty good way to get mac gaming jumpstarted.
"I think there is a solution to this. Apple needs to do the same for games as they did with the iApps. They need to make the killer app. They need to come up with the best game in every category of gaming. Board and card games, RTS, driving, and puzzle games should be done as well as FPS. They need to make the games cross platform so that PC users will also be able to play them, buy them, and fall in love with them. The huge PC gaming market will more than pay for the project. Suddenly, there will be interest in gaming for the Mac from major developers as well. These Apple branded games should be offered free with every new Gaming Edition Mac (GEM), and sold separately in a bundle for $99. At least one of the games needs to be the best of class and they should all have that special Apple touch. One more thing. All of the games should work on every currently shipping Mac, but certain features can be locked for all accept (GEM) and high end owners. "
What does Apple gain? Have you missed all the other posts? If Mac caters to gamers, the parents will buy macs (games for children) as well as hundreds of thousands of casual PC users. So basically people will switch.
That's crap. Kids don't rule most families' computer purchasing decisions. A few, maybe, but not a significant number.
Quote:
And non-gaming mac users tend to have an inferiority complex when dealing with the issue.
What? Inferiority complex? Do you even know what that is?
Dude, deal with the fact that you don't influence businesses outside of graphics cards all that much. You're not as important as you would like to believe. That pimply complexion and greasy hair don't command respect.
You get so defensive and start dishing out insults because really, you're a loner with a low self-esteem. Sorry I had to come out and say it. Usually I try to be nice to people like you, but then again, you guys drive yourself towards self-destruction.
Wow, 3446 posts, a little too much time spent here, perhaps?
You get so defensive and start dishing out insults because really, you're a loner with a low self-esteem. Sorry I had to come out and say it. Usually I try to be nice to people like you, but then again, you guys drive yourself towards self-destruction.
Wow, 3446 posts, a little too much time spent here, perhaps?
3447 now. I'm a loner with low self-esteem. Hmm. Sounds like you're describing a hard-core gamer if you ask me. I'm not going to spend time trying to convince you that I'm this or that because what you think about me personally doesn't matter one bit to this discussion.
What does matter is that you're wrong about this issue. We've gone round and round about it in one thread or the other for a long time here and the bottom line is that the PC gaming market is shrinking while the console market is growing. Catering to gamers is a useless proposition.
Nonetheless, the pc gaming market is huge, and always will be. Steal some of that market and suddenly you have across the board support from developers, and thus more people once again. (Simplified version)
Well, I'm going to stop wasting time responding to your ad-hominem attacks and start packing for my spring break trip to New Orleans tommorrow.
In 2002, PC games totaled $1.4bil in sales while consoles came in at $5.5 (Linky). Over the course of 2002 to 2003, PC games declined in gross sales by 15% while consoles increased by 5.5%.
How about 2002 compared to 2001?
For the reading impaired, in 2001, PC games sold $1.75bil that year while consoles sold $4.6bil. That graph also gives us data for 2000 sales: PC games sold $1.78bil while consoles sold $4.1bil.
Over the course of 4 years of data, a consistent trend emerges:
You tell me it would be wise to chase that ever-shrinking piece of the pie while the overall pie gets bigger.
You tell me it would be wise to chase that ever-shrinking piece of the pie while the overall pie gets bigger.
I rest my case.
Now will you gaming luzers please STFU?
You are only looking at US data, the PC gaming market is over 3 billion dollars, and is going to continue to be a multi-billion dollar market for the foreseeable future.
Why wouldn't it be good for apple to try to expand its share of the multibillion dolor gaming market? Every time someone suggests Apple do something to improve gaming on the Mac (some good ideas, some bad) there is a chores of "eek, no you must not have a good gaming experience on the Mac, buy a console!" It almost like there is a gaming phobia in the Mac community.
You are only looking at US data, the PC gaming market is over 3 billion dollars, and is going to continue to be a multi-billion dollar market for the foreseeable future.
Why wouldn't it be good for apple to try to expand its share of the multibillion dolor gaming market? Every time someone suggests Apple do something to improve gaming on the Mac (some good ideas, some bad) there is a chores of "eek, no you must not have a good gaming experience on the Mac, buy a console!" It almost like there is a gaming phobia in the Mac community.
Where do you get that from? Look at the data for pete's sake. I'd be happy to incorporate those numbers into my graph to continue to prove my point.
The gaming market on PCs is shrinking. It's barely a billion dollar market in the US. Over the past 4 years, it's shrunk 33%. That trend is showing no signs of slowing down. Again, you're over-estimating the importance of games/gamers to the computer industry. I'm not surprised but it doesn't make you right.
That said, do I think it would be good for Apple to introduce a mid-range expandable desktop? Yes. Do I think it's because of gamers? No.
The video cards in the e/iMacs are grossly inferior for ANY type of FPS. Ditto for every i/PowerBook.
The Mobility Radeon 9600 is not half bad (15" and 17" PowerBooks). The 12" PowerBook has a GeForce 5200, which is at least better than a GeForce 420 MX the first revision had. The worst card from thes four products is the 7500 in the eMac, but it's fairly normal for a budget machine.
Any FPS isn't just Unreal Tournament 2004: most FPSs will run aceptably on these machines if you don't demand maximum settings. The most common video card in a recent Half-Life survey carried out by Valve was a GeForce 4 MX, so not all PC FPS shooter players have high end equipment.
Consoles are the easiest to write games for. The programmers don't have to worry about legacy hardware or OS's that date back to the stone-age, and the target platform is pretty much cast in stone as far as what's in the box and how to write code for it. Console gamers don't seem to care much if they have to buy all new versions of games for their new console either.
Macs should be the 2nd easiest platform to write for. There's exactly TWO video card manufacturers (ATI and nVidia), basically one OS, and only ONE 3-D rendering library to worry about - OpenGL.
Microsoft platforms have literally THOUSANDS of available hardware platform combinations, five versions of Windows, and TWO 3-D rendering libraries. The poor game manufacturers have to optimize, cut, and cajole games down to a reasonable lowest common denominator and are then ridiculed when their neato game doesn't run on an old 386 (without a math co-processor).
computer gaming makes no sence for new platform pitch now, 5 10 or 20 years ago yes, but now most gamers buy a $200$xbox/ps2/gamecube and connect it to the 30 inch tube in the den, 5 years ago, serious gamers would think nothing of tossing 5 grand at a pc, but times have changed, games are going console more every day.
if mac wants this market, they should become a dev platform, work with ms on a game dev system for the xbox 2, one that an "every-day programming geek" could afford. let the common geek make console games and give them away, or sell them, maby open source game dev for consoles.
Maby osdn, mac, and ms could team up and open the market for a ton of untapped tallent.
Maybe you remember a time in the early 90's where most of the cool games were mac only -- it didn't save the platform. At that time anything anyone cared about was on the console. Now, consoles reign again, and CPU power is cheap enough that console game developers don't need to write very esoteric code and find hardware solutions around the 14 bit addressing limit of the 6502. . . One of the reasons why PC games took off in the mid 90's. The other was networkability. Consoles have these things now.
Where do you get that from? Look at the data for pete's sake. I'd be happy to incorporate those numbers into my graph to continue to prove my point.
The gaming market on PCs is shrinking. It's barely a billion dollar market in the US. Over the past 4 years, it's shrunk 33%. That trend is showing no signs of slowing down. Again, you're over-estimating the importance of games/gamers to the computer industry. I'm not surprised but it doesn't make you right.
That said, do I think it would be good for Apple to introduce a mid-range expandable desktop? Yes. Do I think it's because of gamers? No.
And that's what this thread is all about. Sheesh.
I did look at the data, I'm talking worldwide sales, and you again are talking only about US sales.
Worldwide, the video game market is over 15 billion dollars, and it is predicted that the worldwide video game market will near 30 billion dollars by the end of 2007.
The PC gaming section of the worldwide market is expected to remain a multi-billion dollar industry the foreseeable future.
Is there any reason that apple should not try to grab as much money as it can from that industry? No.
The articles that started this thread touched on the topic that both the Mac and PC are pretty much on par except when it comes to gamig. Do I think that lack of games on the Mac keeps some people from switching from the PC? Of course I do.
You seem to have something personal against gaming and think that no one ever takes gaming into account when buying a computer. I'm sorry to tell you, but no matter how abhorrent you find it, there is a certain percentage of computer buyers that do take gaming into consideration when purchasing a machine.
Even if the lack of games was only keeping 1 in 30 PC users form switching to a Mac, that would mean that Apple would more then double its market share if the gaming were equal on both platforms.
I did look at the data, I'm talking worldwide sales, and you again are talking only about US sales.
Worldwide, the video game market is over 15 billion dollars, and it is predicted that the worldwide video game market will near 30 billion dollars by the end of 2007.
I'd like to see your numbers. I realize that my data above is only US, but that was all I could find. If you could provide a link to your numbers, I'd like to see it. I believe that you're confounding the PC numbers with console numbers and as my graphs above illustrated, they are headed in opposite directions. Still, I'd like to see links to your numbers. Thanks.
Quote:
The PC gaming section of the worldwide market is expected to remain a multi-billion dollar industry the foreseeable future.
Again, I'd like to see some hard data for this assertion.
Quote:
Is there any reason that apple should not try to grab as much money as it can from that industry? No.
If that segment is on such a decline (33% loss over 4 years while the industry as a whole is booming), I'd disagree. But this is more a business question and more subjective.
Quote:
The articles that started this thread touched on the topic that both the Mac and PC are pretty much on par except when it comes to gamig. Do I think that lack of games on the Mac keeps some people from switching from the PC? Of course I do.
You seem to have something personal against gaming and think that no one ever takes gaming into account when buying a computer. I'm sorry to tell you, but no matter how abhorrent you find it, there is a certain percentage of computer buyers that do take gaming into consideration when purchasing a machine.
I don't have anything personal at all against gaming. I don't like that people always say "if the mac had more games..." they'd do better. I also don't like that gamers seem convinced that Apple should work to provide them with a gaming system, especially when the number indicate that that particular segment is less and less important.
Quote:
Even if the lack of games was only keeping 1 in 30 PC users form switching to a Mac, that would mean that Apple would more then double its market share if the gaming were equal on both platforms.
The purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the number of games on the platform, it's the lack of a "gaming machine". Apple can't do anything about the software - short of something completely out of their software strategy. They shouldn't do anything about the hardware part, either, to address the gaming issue. Again, I do think that Apple needs a mid-range desktop with expandability. However, I don't think that business decision should be made because gamers won't come to the platform.
-t
ps - Please, Res, provide me with the data for your assertions.
I'd like to see your numbers. I realize that my data above is only US, but that was all I could find. If you could provide a link to your numbers, I'd like to see it. I believe that you're confounding the PC numbers with console numbers and as my graphs above illustrated, they are headed in opposite directions. Still, I'd like to see links to your numbers. Thanks.
--Snip-
ps - Please, Res, provide me with the data for your assertions.
Wow, I see why you were only using US figures, I can't find one site that gives a worldwide breakdown. Most of the data is hidden in hardcopy reports. (and I'm not mixing anything up -- I stated above that I was using worldwide video gaming numbers, which includes console, portable, and PC games). This is all I could find online:
I also managed to find a site that referenced a DFC Intelligence report that estimated that the world wide video game market will reach 28 - 30 billion dollars by 2007. http://www.ladydragon.com/a-310303dfc.html
Of course, if you really want to get into the gaming market you have to stop comparing PC vs consoles and break the market down to:
PC
PS2
X-box
GQ
GBA
In the US the PS2 received the largest share of the software pie with nearly 3 billion dollars in sales, next came the PC, with the GC and Xbox fighting over last place. GBA is frequently lumped into console figures, but is actually the leader and only real contender in the portable market and needs to be in that category.
If you can get access to market research on PC gaming you will see that the decrease in sales in PC gaming market was caused mostly by fewer titles coming out in the last year do to some major delays, not a decrease in the appetite of computer gamers. Individual games had strong sales, and PC games remain the dominant PC software product, accounting for one-third of all software revenue.
Overall console shipments are down and dropped nearly 2 billion in revenue in 2003, (and the sales are not expected to really pick back up until 2006). Meanwhile IDC is predicting double digit growth in the PC sector.
Truthfully I think, and many analyst agree, that we are only going to have one or two more generations of consoles, then they will merge back into general computers.
Of course, the inner workings of the video game market are somewhat off topic.
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
I don't have anything personal at all against gaming. I don't like that people always say "if the mac had more games..." they'd do better. I also don't like that gamers seem convinced that Apple should work to provide them with a gaming system, especially when the number indicate that that particular segment is less and less important.
You may not like it when people say that "if the mac had more games... they'd do better" but it is the plan truth. You will not find one sane analyst that will tell you that the fewer games for the Mac the better the Mac will sell.
You must realize that your "less and less important" is one third of all software revenue!!! And I can't find one analyst who thanks that the PC gaming market is going to dry up and vanish. So yes, a lot of gamers (and non-gaming analysts) thank that Apple should try to improve the current state of Mac gaming
Quote:
Originally posted by torifile
The purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the number of games on the platform, it's the lack of a "gaming machine". Apple can't do anything about the software - short of something completely out of their software strategy. They shouldn't do anything about the hardware part, either, to address the gaming issue. Again, I do think that Apple needs a mid-range desktop with expandability. However, I don't think that business decision should be made because gamers won't come to the platform.
-t
I totally disagree with you on this. The thread started with an article that that said that the only real advantage that the PC has over the Mac is the number and quality of gaming titles. And Apple certainly could do something about that.
I think Apple should do more to entice game developers to the Mac, and I also think that they should buy or create a gaming company to make a line of Mac games. Look how Microsoft bought up Bungie and made the most anticipated game ever only available on the Xbox (A year or so later they released it for the PC). Apple could easily so something similar.
As for hardware, I've stated this on the forums numerous times, Apple does not need to, and should not try to, create a special purpose "gaming computer." They just need to update their line to as fast a G5 as ibm can give them, and make sure they don't skimp on video cards.
Comments
Gamers consistently overestimate their importance to the computer world. It goes well with their malformed sense of self, I suppose.
Originally posted by torifile
Gaming is the main reason people don't want Macs, eh? Tell me what advantage Apple would gain by catering to gamers? They buy a computer and then upgrade the video card. Upgrade the RAM. Upgrade the HD. They don't buy new computers, they just upgrade them. That doesn't gain Apple any money.
What does Apple gain? Have you missed all the other posts? If Mac caters to gamers, the parents will buy macs (games for children) as well as hundreds of thousands of casual PC users. So basically people will switch.
Originally posted by torifile
Gamers consistently overestimate their importance to the computer world.
And non-gaming mac users tend to have an inferiority complex when dealing with the issue.
I though macvoyer's idea was pretty good way to get mac gaming jumpstarted.
"I think there is a solution to this. Apple needs to do the same for games as they did with the iApps. They need to make the killer app. They need to come up with the best game in every category of gaming. Board and card games, RTS, driving, and puzzle games should be done as well as FPS. They need to make the games cross platform so that PC users will also be able to play them, buy them, and fall in love with them. The huge PC gaming market will more than pay for the project. Suddenly, there will be interest in gaming for the Mac from major developers as well. These Apple branded games should be offered free with every new Gaming Edition Mac (GEM), and sold separately in a bundle for $99. At least one of the games needs to be the best of class and they should all have that special Apple touch. One more thing. All of the games should work on every currently shipping Mac, but certain features can be locked for all accept (GEM) and high end owners. "
Originally posted by SwitchingSoon
What does Apple gain? Have you missed all the other posts? If Mac caters to gamers, the parents will buy macs (games for children) as well as hundreds of thousands of casual PC users. So basically people will switch.
That's crap. Kids don't rule most families' computer purchasing decisions. A few, maybe, but not a significant number.
And non-gaming mac users tend to have an inferiority complex when dealing with the issue.
What?
Dude, deal with the fact that you don't influence businesses outside of graphics cards all that much. You're not as important as you would like to believe. That pimply complexion and greasy hair don't command respect.
You get so defensive and start dishing out insults because really, you're a loner with a low self-esteem. Sorry I had to come out and say it. Usually I try to be nice to people like you, but then again, you guys drive yourself towards self-destruction.
Wow, 3446 posts, a little too much time spent here, perhaps?
Originally posted by SwitchingSoon
Please, you know what I mean.
You get so defensive and start dishing out insults because really, you're a loner with a low self-esteem. Sorry I had to come out and say it. Usually I try to be nice to people like you, but then again, you guys drive yourself towards self-destruction.
Wow, 3446 posts, a little too much time spent here, perhaps?
3447 now. I'm a loner with low self-esteem. Hmm. Sounds like you're describing a hard-core gamer if you ask me. I'm not going to spend time trying to convince you that I'm this or that because what you think about me personally doesn't matter one bit to this discussion.
What does matter is that you're wrong about this issue. We've gone round and round about it in one thread or the other for a long time here and the bottom line is that the PC gaming market is shrinking while the console market is growing. Catering to gamers is a useless proposition.
Well, I'm going to stop wasting time responding to your ad-hominem attacks and start packing for my spring break trip to New Orleans tommorrow.
Good day all, and see you in 4-5 days.
Games totaled $7bil in sales in 2003. Up marginally from 2002, which came in at $6.9 bil. But consoles accounted for $5.8bil (83%) of that number.
How does that compare to the previous year?
In 2002, PC games totaled $1.4bil in sales while consoles came in at $5.5 (Linky). Over the course of 2002 to 2003, PC games declined in gross sales by 15% while consoles increased by 5.5%.
How about 2002 compared to 2001?
For the reading impaired, in 2001, PC games sold $1.75bil that year while consoles sold $4.6bil. That graph also gives us data for 2000 sales: PC games sold $1.78bil while consoles sold $4.1bil.
Over the course of 4 years of data, a consistent trend emerges:
You tell me it would be wise to chase that ever-shrinking piece of the pie while the overall pie gets bigger.
I rest my case.
Now will you gaming luzers please STFU?
Originally posted by torifile
-Snip-
You tell me it would be wise to chase that ever-shrinking piece of the pie while the overall pie gets bigger.
I rest my case.
Now will you gaming luzers please STFU?
You are only looking at US data, the PC gaming market is over 3 billion dollars, and is going to continue to be a multi-billion dollar market for the foreseeable future.
Why wouldn't it be good for apple to try to expand its share of the multibillion dolor gaming market? Every time someone suggests Apple do something to improve gaming on the Mac (some good ideas, some bad) there is a chores of "eek, no you must not have a good gaming experience on the Mac, buy a console!" It almost like there is a gaming phobia in the Mac community.
Originally posted by Res
You are only looking at US data, the PC gaming market is over 3 billion dollars, and is going to continue to be a multi-billion dollar market for the foreseeable future.
Why wouldn't it be good for apple to try to expand its share of the multibillion dolor gaming market? Every time someone suggests Apple do something to improve gaming on the Mac (some good ideas, some bad) there is a chores of "eek, no you must not have a good gaming experience on the Mac, buy a console!" It almost like there is a gaming phobia in the Mac community.
Where do you get that from? Look at the data for pete's sake.
The gaming market on PCs is shrinking. It's barely a billion dollar market in the US. Over the past 4 years, it's shrunk 33%. That trend is showing no signs of slowing down. Again, you're over-estimating the importance of games/gamers to the computer industry. I'm not surprised but it doesn't make you right.
That said, do I think it would be good for Apple to introduce a mid-range expandable desktop? Yes. Do I think it's because of gamers? No.
And that's what this thread is all about. Sheesh.
I don't want to see any more mudslinging in this thread. Stick to the argument.
The video cards in the e/iMacs are grossly inferior for ANY type of FPS. Ditto for every i/PowerBook.
The Mobility Radeon 9600 is not half bad (15" and 17" PowerBooks). The 12" PowerBook has a GeForce 5200, which is at least better than a GeForce 420 MX the first revision had. The worst card from thes four products is the 7500 in the eMac, but it's fairly normal for a budget machine.
Any FPS isn't just Unreal Tournament 2004: most FPSs will run aceptably on these machines if you don't demand maximum settings. The most common video card in a recent Half-Life survey carried out by Valve was a GeForce 4 MX, so not all PC FPS shooter players have high end equipment.
Originally posted by Amorph
torifile, if you have facts to back up your argument then the ad hominem is just defeating them.
I don't want to see any more mudslinging in this thread. Stick to the argument.
Sorry. I got a little worked up last night. I'll clean it up.
Consoles are the easiest to write games for. The programmers don't have to worry about legacy hardware or OS's that date back to the stone-age, and the target platform is pretty much cast in stone as far as what's in the box and how to write code for it. Console gamers don't seem to care much if they have to buy all new versions of games for their new console either.
Macs should be the 2nd easiest platform to write for. There's exactly TWO video card manufacturers (ATI and nVidia), basically one OS, and only ONE 3-D rendering library to worry about - OpenGL.
Microsoft platforms have literally THOUSANDS of available hardware platform combinations, five versions of Windows, and TWO 3-D rendering libraries. The poor game manufacturers have to optimize, cut, and cajole games down to a reasonable lowest common denominator and are then ridiculed when their neato game doesn't run on an old 386 (without a math co-processor).
if mac wants this market, they should become a dev platform, work with ms on a game dev system for the xbox 2, one that an "every-day programming geek" could afford. let the common geek make console games and give them away, or sell them, maby open source game dev for consoles.
Maby osdn, mac, and ms could team up and open the market for a ton of untapped tallent.
<after thought}
hell could freeze too
</after thought>
*Nods sleepily, returns to GameCube.*
Originally posted by torifile
Where do you get that from? Look at the data for pete's sake.
The gaming market on PCs is shrinking. It's barely a billion dollar market in the US. Over the past 4 years, it's shrunk 33%. That trend is showing no signs of slowing down. Again, you're over-estimating the importance of games/gamers to the computer industry. I'm not surprised but it doesn't make you right.
That said, do I think it would be good for Apple to introduce a mid-range expandable desktop? Yes. Do I think it's because of gamers? No.
And that's what this thread is all about. Sheesh.
I did look at the data, I'm talking worldwide sales, and you again are talking only about US sales.
Worldwide, the video game market is over 15 billion dollars, and it is predicted that the worldwide video game market will near 30 billion dollars by the end of 2007.
The PC gaming section of the worldwide market is expected to remain a multi-billion dollar industry the foreseeable future.
Is there any reason that apple should not try to grab as much money as it can from that industry? No.
The articles that started this thread touched on the topic that both the Mac and PC are pretty much on par except when it comes to gamig. Do I think that lack of games on the Mac keeps some people from switching from the PC? Of course I do.
You seem to have something personal against gaming and think that no one ever takes gaming into account when buying a computer. I'm sorry to tell you, but no matter how abhorrent you find it, there is a certain percentage of computer buyers that do take gaming into consideration when purchasing a machine.
Even if the lack of games was only keeping 1 in 30 PC users form switching to a Mac, that would mean that Apple would more then double its market share if the gaming were equal on both platforms.
Originally posted by Res
I did look at the data, I'm talking worldwide sales, and you again are talking only about US sales.
Worldwide, the video game market is over 15 billion dollars, and it is predicted that the worldwide video game market will near 30 billion dollars by the end of 2007.
I'd like to see your numbers. I realize that my data above is only US, but that was all I could find. If you could provide a link to your numbers, I'd like to see it. I believe that you're confounding the PC numbers with console numbers and as my graphs above illustrated, they are headed in opposite directions. Still, I'd like to see links to your numbers. Thanks.
The PC gaming section of the worldwide market is expected to remain a multi-billion dollar industry the foreseeable future.
Again, I'd like to see some hard data for this assertion.
Is there any reason that apple should not try to grab as much money as it can from that industry? No.
If that segment is on such a decline (33% loss over 4 years while the industry as a whole is booming), I'd disagree. But this is more a business question and more subjective.
The articles that started this thread touched on the topic that both the Mac and PC are pretty much on par except when it comes to gamig. Do I think that lack of games on the Mac keeps some people from switching from the PC? Of course I do.
You seem to have something personal against gaming and think that no one ever takes gaming into account when buying a computer. I'm sorry to tell you, but no matter how abhorrent you find it, there is a certain percentage of computer buyers that do take gaming into consideration when purchasing a machine.
I don't have anything personal at all against gaming. I don't like that people always say "if the mac had more games..." they'd do better. I also don't like that gamers seem convinced that Apple should work to provide them with a gaming system, especially when the number indicate that that particular segment is less and less important.
Even if the lack of games was only keeping 1 in 30 PC users form switching to a Mac, that would mean that Apple would more then double its market share if the gaming were equal on both platforms.
The purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the number of games on the platform, it's the lack of a "gaming machine". Apple can't do anything about the software - short of something completely out of their software strategy. They shouldn't do anything about the hardware part, either, to address the gaming issue. Again, I do think that Apple needs a mid-range desktop with expandability. However, I don't think that business decision should be made because gamers won't come to the platform.
-t
ps - Please, Res, provide me with the data for your assertions.
Originally posted by torifile
I'd like to see your numbers. I realize that my data above is only US, but that was all I could find. If you could provide a link to your numbers, I'd like to see it. I believe that you're confounding the PC numbers with console numbers and as my graphs above illustrated, they are headed in opposite directions. Still, I'd like to see links to your numbers. Thanks.
--Snip-
ps - Please, Res, provide me with the data for your assertions.
Wow, I see why you were only using US figures, I can't find one site that gives a worldwide breakdown. Most of the data is hidden in hardcopy reports. (and I'm not mixing anything up -- I stated above that I was using worldwide video gaming numbers, which includes console, portable, and PC games). This is all I could find online:
The International Council of Toy Industries shows that the world wide video game market was about 15 billions dollars back in 2000 http://www.toy-icti.org/publications/wtf&f_2001/03.html
I also managed to find a site that referenced a DFC Intelligence report that estimated that the world wide video game market will reach 28 - 30 billion dollars by 2007. http://www.ladydragon.com/a-310303dfc.html
Of course, if you really want to get into the gaming market you have to stop comparing PC vs consoles and break the market down to:
PC
PS2
X-box
GQ
GBA
In the US the PS2 received the largest share of the software pie with nearly 3 billion dollars in sales, next came the PC, with the GC and Xbox fighting over last place. GBA is frequently lumped into console figures, but is actually the leader and only real contender in the portable market and needs to be in that category.
If you can get access to market research on PC gaming you will see that the decrease in sales in PC gaming market was caused mostly by fewer titles coming out in the last year do to some major delays, not a decrease in the appetite of computer gamers. Individual games had strong sales, and PC games remain the dominant PC software product, accounting for one-third of all software revenue.
Overall console shipments are down and dropped nearly 2 billion in revenue in 2003, (and the sales are not expected to really pick back up until 2006). Meanwhile IDC is predicting double digit growth in the PC sector.
Truthfully I think, and many analyst agree, that we are only going to have one or two more generations of consoles, then they will merge back into general computers.
Of course, the inner workings of the video game market are somewhat off topic.
Originally posted by torifile
I don't have anything personal at all against gaming. I don't like that people always say "if the mac had more games..." they'd do better. I also don't like that gamers seem convinced that Apple should work to provide them with a gaming system, especially when the number indicate that that particular segment is less and less important.
You may not like it when people say that "if the mac had more games... they'd do better" but it is the plan truth. You will not find one sane analyst that will tell you that the fewer games for the Mac the better the Mac will sell.
You must realize that your "less and less important" is one third of all software revenue!!! And I can't find one analyst who thanks that the PC gaming market is going to dry up and vanish. So yes, a lot of gamers (and non-gaming analysts) thank that Apple should try to improve the current state of Mac gaming
Originally posted by torifile
The purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the number of games on the platform, it's the lack of a "gaming machine". Apple can't do anything about the software - short of something completely out of their software strategy. They shouldn't do anything about the hardware part, either, to address the gaming issue. Again, I do think that Apple needs a mid-range desktop with expandability. However, I don't think that business decision should be made because gamers won't come to the platform.
-t
I totally disagree with you on this. The thread started with an article that that said that the only real advantage that the PC has over the Mac is the number and quality of gaming titles. And Apple certainly could do something about that.
I think Apple should do more to entice game developers to the Mac, and I also think that they should buy or create a gaming company to make a line of Mac games. Look how Microsoft bought up Bungie and made the most anticipated game ever only available on the Xbox (A year or so later they released it for the PC). Apple could easily so something similar.
As for hardware, I've stated this on the forums numerous times, Apple does not need to, and should not try to, create a special purpose "gaming computer." They just need to update their line to as fast a G5 as ibm can give them, and make sure they don't skimp on video cards.
Just my $2.35 on the subject.