<strong>Steve: "One never knows. We don't usually discuss products we haven't announced."
He has said comments like this before, hasn't he? And also, it sounds like, i am not going to discuss the product we have not announced. Like, it is like he says it is there, but he is not going to discuss it because it is not announced yet... does this make sense?> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Point is, he came right out and said no to the set top TV device. He said they belong in living rooms. So if he's against an idea, he's usually pretty blunt about his stance. He's not laughing at this question which in itself is interesting.
Anyone who works on thier feet all day long and has to do some form of data entry/data access could use a decent tablet computer. Ever heard of nurses, for example? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm writing code in the medical realm right now, and there's absolutely no doubt there's a HUGE need to get tablets into the hands of Doctors and Nurses, so that records can finally be taken off paper, and people don't get blood tested 10 times a day just because nobody can cross check all that paperwork ...
... but, how big is that market? And is it big enough that it's worth Apple going after? Worse, will IT departments accept a non-windows machine in the hands of end users in a hospital?
Before Apple bets the farm on a tablet, they'd better answer those questions first!
Well, before you tablet folks get all excited, CNN just showed a PC device that attaches to a real notepad. Then with a stylus I guess the hand written note is digitally transfered to your computer while keeping the note written in ink on the actual note paper pad.
Granted, it's really portable, between this and MS's tablet, the field is getting full quickly.
[quote]I think they are using Palm 701's<hr></blockquote>
Yuck. To be honest, I don't see how anyone could expect professionals to use Palms for anything more than checking schedules & perhaps data access, so long as the information is concise enough to fit on those tiny screens. Grafitti is just plain bad.
The Palm is an abomination-- I know, I've got one (an m130), and it doesn't hold hold a candle to my 8 year old Newton (MP120). Input is horrible, the included apps stink (the Newton's apps stink, as well, but they stink less ), and the whole OS is more or less a train wreck... (All IMHO, of course. )
But what do I know. I'm just a code monkey. Nobody listens to me.
[quote]There are VERY few areas where a tablet will outperform a Newton-like device (we agree there). It is like using a sledgehammer as a flyswatter. <hr></blockquote>
Well, I should probably clarify something: To me, the Newton was a tablet computer. Had Newton Inc. come out with a machine with a screen that was, say, A5 size (roughly 8x6, IIRC), I think it could have sold quite well, especially if you could plug a keyboard into it and used it like a laptop (a la the MP2000). Such a device would be great for taking notes, especially on techical topics with lots of graphs and diagrams.
If the definition of a tablet is a computer that has a touch & stylus sensitive screen that is close to 8.5x11 in size, then I'd agree with you that they're overkill in all but a select few situations. A Newton would perform admirably in many of those situations, but I'm just complaining because the Newt got killed right when things were getting good.
<strong>I've seen some of the prototype tablets and to say they suck is kind of an understatement.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, apparently things are going a little better: <a href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q3/020726/index.html"; target="_blank">check this out</a>. Granted, it's far from perfect, and worst of all WinXP's handwriting recognition suck, but it's 1024x768, and you can have it portrait if you want! For this sole feature I'd buy one... Now, if it only ran Jag-wyre...
<strong>Tablets are for losers. Like Jobs said, who wants to hand-write all their emails? I sure as hell don't. And why spend $900 on a tablet when for $1200 you can get a tablet w/keyboard (hint: laptop!)? Really people, think these things through before you start clamoring for one. A tablet is a gadget that solves nobody's problem, it's an answer to a question that was never asked.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oddly enough, you must have no clue what people use computers for.
The kiosk market alone is about the size of Apple's market, and there are largely touch rather than writing devices. Tablets don't replace laptops. They'll replace a few... They'll replace a few PDAs, but not most.
The tablet is an *extension* of your computer so that you can bring information to people, rather then the reverse. They're perfect for doctors, dentists, nurses, sales people, service people, customer service, field marketing people, the list goes on.
These are people that are either serviced with dedicated hardware (like the UPS hardware) or none at all. I'd buy a tablet for every one of my staff so that they could bring information to our clients. It allow service professionals to focus on the customer relationship without having to insert a desk into the equation.
It's not a huge market relative to the general PC market, but it's a huge market relative to Apple's market.
Personally, I see a tablet as a remote thin client device. All the real work happens on a Powermac or XServe somewhere that you're logged into, the client just drives the UI locally. No real HD, not much RAM, no removable storage - just Firewire, USB, Airport, and some kind of docking functionality so it can recharge. Because the hard work is done on your desktop or server, it doesn't need a fast processor.
In fact, it might not need to be much more than a 5GB iPod in terms of RAM, CPU and HD, driving a 12" touchscreen LCD. Toss in USB and Airport and a bigger battery. Weigh in around 2.5 lbs or so, is my guess for a decent battery life. Not bad.
I don't see streaming MPEGs or any of that crap. It's just a way to get information where you want it. Sure, for home you could view your iPhoto slideshow, or plug in your camera and download photos, but it's not a replacement for your computer.
Actually, I'm hoping that Apple DOES release a tablet soon. That way I can get a few good laughs in while it tanks and makes the cube look like a success.
You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen.
Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.
It's easy to underestimate the technical merits of a pad of paper, but consider for a moment the following:
1. Durability. Drop a pad of paper from a 10 story building. Your notes are intact. Try the same with a tablet.
2. Reliability. Pad of paper has no batteries to run out, no HDs to get hosed, no mechanical components to break. It just works.
3. Endurance. Pad of paper IS a backup. It's your solid copy of important information, on hand and ready to peruse. As for the safety of notes on a tablet....better get out those CD-R and do daily backups. I'd hate to lose it all because someone nudged me while I was writing to it and dropped it on the floor.
4. Gee-Whiz factor. The tablet wins here. You can show it off to your friends so they will think you're cool. Be the first on your block to use a tablet--chicks dig it, men fear it. Pad of paper gets only a limp response and makes you look so 20th century.
5. Tablets are for losers. This is self-evident as Micro$oft are pushing tablets on the general population like a bad batch of crack.
If anyone still thinks a tablet is a good idea, then just wait until more tablets are released onto the consumer market and watch them all tank.
<strong>"You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen. "
JD destroys tablet advocates without breaking sweat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do find it highly amusing that the people I know who still use Palms/Handsprings/iPaqs/... have all bought these silly little keyboards for them. In fact, many are looking to update to the newer models like the Sony Clie with a built-in keyboard.
The keyboard rules, and will do for a long, long time.
1) So I am to understand that the tablet sits somewhere between a PDA and a laptop, and that you are to write on it by hand.
This IMO has no chance at all. For keyboards are, after getting used to - and for most people, by far a faster means of input. Plus, a PDA is possible still, it can be carried without much problem, and so on. To be short: it is truly a niche product.
2) Yet, one good example for its use is a hospital. But then, living in a family of MD's, let me tell you this: the medical world is deeply Windozed. If any CD-ROM's arrive from the government or the pharmaceutical companies, they are PC only (truly PC, .exe-a-go-go). I think this holds true for many professions (except for design and publishing, ...). To be short: it is a niche product in which Apple will never do no good. (Yet it makes me wonder why they produced InkWell).
3) Let's take the following statement:
[quote] originally posted by Blackcat:
[Apple turned MP3 players from niche geek toy to mass market music device.<hr></blockquote>
That is truly a very bad example. There has been, since the release of the first walkman in the eighties, and even in ghettoblaster times before that, a large audience for this kind of portable music solutions. After the cassette died, there has been some flirting with discmen and minidisc-players, but these were not that viable (the discman because of its size - although they were and are very popular, it just explains why people were ready to switch,, the minidisc players because of their nichy nature).
It's just to say: the world was ready and waiting for something to truly replace the beloved Walkman. Small-size HD MP3-players is just such a thing.
I really don't think it is fair to say that MP3 players were a geek niche product (as they are offspring of the Walkman, which is not a niche product).
The kiosk market alone is about the size of Apple's market, and there are largely touch rather than writing devices. Tablets don't replace laptops. They'll replace a few... They'll replace a few PDAs, but not most.
The tablet is an *extension* of your computer so that you can bring information to people, rather then the reverse. They're perfect for doctors, dentists, nurses, sales people, service people, customer service, field marketing people, the list goes on.
These are people that are either serviced with dedicated hardware (like the UPS hardware) or none at all. I'd buy a tablet for every one of my staff so that they could bring information to our clients. It allow service professionals to focus on the customer relationship without having to insert a desk into the equation.
It's not a huge market relative to the general PC market, but it's a huge market relative to Apple's market.
Personally, I see a tablet as a remote thin client device. All the real work happens on a Powermac or XServe somewhere that you're logged into, the client just drives the UI locally. No real HD, not much RAM, no removable storage - just Firewire, USB, Airport, and some kind of docking functionality so it can recharge. Because the hard work is done on your desktop or server, it doesn't need a fast processor.
In fact, it might not need to be much more than a 5GB iPod in terms of RAM, CPU and HD, driving a 12" touchscreen LCD. Toss in USB and Airport and a bigger battery. Weigh in around 2.5 lbs or so, is my guess for a decent battery life. Not bad.
I don't see streaming MPEGs or any of that crap. It's just a way to get information where you want it. Sure, for home you could view your iPhoto slideshow, or plug in your camera and download photos, but it's not a replacement for your computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm no expert on Kiosk machines, but I don't necessarily think Kiosk machines are tablets, they generally seem to be some sort of touch screen LCD jobbie with some kind of wily connection scheme to some PC hidden someplace ... and I don't think putting a real tablet in place of the way kiosks work now is much of a value boost to kiosk users or makers.
The other issue is this whole concept of a "thin" client - it turns out that the amount of effort and energy necessary to make a viable thin OS is almost the same effort and energy to make your main OS ... and with the price of hard drives, their size, and capabilities these days, I really don't see much benefit to Apple to fork their OS for the sake of a thin client, it would simply be much better if Apple made the OS itself more flexible for a tablet type application - if there's any point to Apple to doing more of a Pallet approach!
Now I couldn't agree more that there's plenty of people who work away from desks, yet need to get information into a form or out of a database ... but each of these professions, medical, sales, etc are completely separate markets ... each will require their own marketing scheme, and each may already be seriously dominated by windoze ... and as badly as they need it, there's no guarantee they'll choose an Apple solution, even if it is the best one.
This whole "boy are there ever a lot of people who need a pallet" smells a little too much of the typical numbers fallacy, which goes something like:
"If there's over a billion people in China, then all I have to do is get one person in a thousand to send me one single dollar, and then I'll be rich! Now how hard can that be?"...
... inevitably, a lot harder than most suppose at first, causing a lot to find out the hard way.
<strong>Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think JYD has got a strong point here: a tablet might sell, but never in the consumer market segment. Of course, it'd be incredibly cool to own one such thing, I'd probably buy one too, but what the hell-I always wanted to own a Cube, so I guess I'm not the kind of customer that saves Apple's ass...
A specialized tablet might be a totally different thing, but then I don't think Apple could justify the associated R&D expenses...
Oh, and regarding the fact that a tablet should only run the GUI locally: to me it's pretty clear that under OS X the GUI is one of the things that require more processing power. It's horribly slow on my Titanium, try to run THAT on an iPod-level CPU+HD+Ram... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
I do find it highly amusing that the people I know who still use Palms/Handsprings/iPaqs/... have all bought these silly little keyboards for them. In fact, many are looking to update to the newer models like the Sony Clie with a built-in keyboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And what fascinates me is that people who actually use those things trade crappy, poorly integrated HWR for crappy, cramped mini-keyboards and consider it a tradeup.
[quote]<strong>The keyboard rules, and will do for a long, long time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
HWR won't catch on until it's done right. That includes software that's smart enough to tell when you're drawing and when you're writing - or at least, which makes it painless to switch modes. There's a whole lot of latitude that you have with a pen that you simply don't have with a keyboard. But the input system has to be top-notch, and the applications have to be designed to work closely with it. As long as that's not true, people will continue to amuse me to no end by poking carefully at Lilliputian keyboards.
<strong>You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite right, as a well-entrenched medium that everyone can operate, requires no power source and is universally recognised, you'll need to go a long way before paper gets beat. It's tangible, it's readily transportable, and easily miniaturised. What more do you need?
There's a delicious sense of irony in the offices I visit where people get in every morning, retrieve their email and... print it all out!
People like paper, and there's a distinct psychological aspect to making a permanent change. I suspect that this is why electronic books have never taken off, even though such a device would be a very trivial hardware and software exercise.
Yes, for data entry of the box-ticking type, there's a market there (ever see those LCD monsters the UPS guys carry around to digitise a signature?), but for anything else, it's a woefully limited approach.
You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen. [QB]
Who suggested that it will replace a pad of paper and a pen. Just because it looks like a pad of paper and a pen, doesn't mean that's what it's for any more than a computer is a TV because it looks like a TV.
The problem the tablet mainly addresses is delivering information *to* the user (rather than the user going to the information), and sending tightly structured (not freeform, like a pad of paper) information to the server.
Any person who spends most of their time interacting directly with a database doing minimal data entry is a possible candidate for a tablet - especially if they are doing it in a service situation.
[QB]Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.</strong>
Who the f**k ever said anything about a consumer use? Apple's not selling a lot of XServes to consumers either, are they?!
<strong>1. Durability. Drop a pad of paper from a 10 story building. Your notes are intact. Try the same with a tablet.</strong>
Strawman argument. The tablet needs to be durable - yes, but no more so than an iBook. I've dropped mine from standing height. It's fine.
<strong>2. Reliability. Pad of paper has no batteries to run out, no HDs to get hosed, no mechanical components to break. It just works.</strong>
IT'S NOT REPLACING A PAD OF PAPER!
<strong>3. Endurance. Pad of paper IS a backup. It's your solid copy of important information, on hand and ready to peruse. As for the safety of notes on a tablet....better get out those CD-R and do daily backups. I'd hate to lose it all because someone nudged me while I was writing to it and dropped it on the floor. </strong>
IT'S NOT REPLACING A PAD OF PAPER!
<strong>4. Gee-Whiz factor. </strong>
Who gives a shit about that...
<strong>5. Tablets are for losers. This is self-evident as Micro$oft are pushing tablets on the general population like a bad batch of crack.
If anyone still thinks a tablet is a good idea, then just wait until more tablets are released onto the consumer market and watch them all tank.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They don't belong on the consumer market right now. The soonest they do is when they *can* sit in the digital hub at a price point low enough to bundle with a computer. Most web surfing doesn't involve typing (maybe a little), using iTunes is almost no typing, using iPhoto is almost no typing. Using a tablet to drive your new Philips Rendevous enabled HES makes a lot of sense, but that's at least a year or two away, and a lot of cost cutting.
The tablet is useful to a surprisingly large business market that either has no existing solution, or has custom built solutions.
MS isn't pushing tablets onto consumers, they're pusing tablets onto businesses. There's just a little spillover that you're getting obsessive about.
<strong>HWR won't catch on until it's done right. That includes software that's smart enough to tell when you're drawing and when you're writing - or at least, which makes it painless to switch modes. There's a whole lot of latitude that you have with a pen that you simply don't have with a keyboard. But the input system has to be top-notch, and the applications have to be designed to work closely with it. As long as that's not true, people will continue to amuse me to no end by poking carefully at Lilliputian keyboards.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's nothing funnier than seeing... How to put this delicately... A portly young fellow on the subway attempting to type on a Palm keyboard balanced on his knee.
As far as HWR is concerned, it's no good to me as a replacement for a keyboard until it can recognize my handwriting. My natural handwriting, and not necessitate having to write neatly, or use a forced alphabet.
And I've got to know it's recognized and converted accurately without checking. I can touch type a thousand words and perhaps a couple of times I'll know that the word I just entered wasn't right and needed correcting.
<strong>As far as HWR is concerned, it's no good to me as a replacement for a keyboard until it can recognize my handwriting. My natural handwriting, and not necessitate having to write neatly, or use a forced alphabet.
And I've got to know it's recognized and converted accurately without checking. I can touch type a thousand words and perhaps a couple of times I'll know that the word I just entered wasn't right and needed correcting.
It's all a long way off.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, if it's possible for a human to recognize your natural handwriting, it should be possible for a computer.
For my part, I have two or three completely different a's and e's (a legacy of the calligraphy classes I took in college), by n's and u's are hard to tell apart, and I've been known to dot the general vicinity of an i. All in a style that varies between sorta-uncial, cursive and print depending on whim, with z's and 7's crossed as a result of my time in Europe. So I'm not expecting anything soon either. In fact, I don't think it'll really take off until the HWR engine can learn grammar, too, and use that as well as a dictionary to narrow down the options for what a word must be.
Then it would have to have some way of knowing when an arrow is shorthand for "this implies..."
Keyboards do have the advantage that there's no ambiguity about what will appear when you type the 'x' key. It's a pity, because I think much better with a pen. So I guess I'll be sticking to paper for a while, when I need to work things out or brainstorm.
<strong>Well, if it's possible for a human to recognize your natural handwriting, it should be possible for a computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You've seen my scrawl then? It kind of looks like an army of spiders crawled across the page and then someone dropped a book on 'em. However, people can read it. No HWR can.
And judging by John Siracusa's experiments, Inkwell ain't too hot.
A more organic shaped version of the iPod. A scroll wheel to dial numbers downloaded from address book. Colour screen. And the ability to take silly low res photos of people doing 'moonies' when they're drunk.
And like somebody else said around here somewhere...because it was made by apple it would have no speaker...
Comments
<strong>Steve: "One never knows. We don't usually discuss products we haven't announced."
He has said comments like this before, hasn't he? And also, it sounds like, i am not going to discuss the product we have not announced. Like, it is like he says it is there, but he is not going to discuss it because it is not announced yet... does this make sense?> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Point is, he came right out and said no to the set top TV device. He said they belong in living rooms. So if he's against an idea, he's usually pretty blunt about his stance. He's not laughing at this question which in itself is interesting.
Not saying no is almost saying yes.
<strong>
Anyone who works on thier feet all day long and has to do some form of data entry/data access could use a decent tablet computer. Ever heard of nurses, for example? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm writing code in the medical realm right now, and there's absolutely no doubt there's a HUGE need to get tablets into the hands of Doctors and Nurses, so that records can finally be taken off paper, and people don't get blood tested 10 times a day just because nobody can cross check all that paperwork ...
... but, how big is that market? And is it big enough that it's worth Apple going after? Worse, will IT departments accept a non-windows machine in the hands of end users in a hospital?
Before Apple bets the farm on a tablet, they'd better answer those questions first!
Granted, it's really portable, between this and MS's tablet, the field is getting full quickly.
Yuck. To be honest, I don't see how anyone could expect professionals to use Palms for anything more than checking schedules & perhaps data access, so long as the information is concise enough to fit on those tiny screens. Grafitti is just plain bad.
The Palm is an abomination-- I know, I've got one (an m130), and it doesn't hold hold a candle to my 8 year old Newton (MP120). Input is horrible, the included apps stink (the Newton's apps stink, as well, but they stink less
But what do I know. I'm just a code monkey. Nobody listens to me.
[quote]There are VERY few areas where a tablet will outperform a Newton-like device (we agree there). It is like using a sledgehammer as a flyswatter. <hr></blockquote>
Well, I should probably clarify something: To me, the Newton was a tablet computer. Had Newton Inc. come out with a machine with a screen that was, say, A5 size (roughly 8x6, IIRC), I think it could have sold quite well, especially if you could plug a keyboard into it and used it like a laptop (a la the MP2000). Such a device would be great for taking notes, especially on techical topics with lots of graphs and diagrams.
If the definition of a tablet is a computer that has a touch & stylus sensitive screen that is close to 8.5x11 in size, then I'd agree with you that they're overkill in all but a select few situations. A Newton would perform admirably in many of those situations, but I'm just complaining because the Newt got killed right when things were getting good.
<strong>I've seen some of the prototype tablets and to say they suck is kind of an understatement.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, apparently things are going a little better: <a href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q3/020726/index.html"; target="_blank">check this out</a>. Granted, it's far from perfect, and worst of all WinXP's handwriting recognition suck, but it's 1024x768, and you can have it portrait if you want! For this sole feature I'd buy one... Now, if it only ran Jag-wyre...
ZoSo
<strong>Tablets are for losers. Like Jobs said, who wants to hand-write all their emails? I sure as hell don't. And why spend $900 on a tablet when for $1200 you can get a tablet w/keyboard (hint: laptop!)? Really people, think these things through before you start clamoring for one. A tablet is a gadget that solves nobody's problem, it's an answer to a question that was never asked.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oddly enough, you must have no clue what people use computers for.
The kiosk market alone is about the size of Apple's market, and there are largely touch rather than writing devices. Tablets don't replace laptops. They'll replace a few... They'll replace a few PDAs, but not most.
The tablet is an *extension* of your computer so that you can bring information to people, rather then the reverse. They're perfect for doctors, dentists, nurses, sales people, service people, customer service, field marketing people, the list goes on.
These are people that are either serviced with dedicated hardware (like the UPS hardware) or none at all. I'd buy a tablet for every one of my staff so that they could bring information to our clients. It allow service professionals to focus on the customer relationship without having to insert a desk into the equation.
It's not a huge market relative to the general PC market, but it's a huge market relative to Apple's market.
Personally, I see a tablet as a remote thin client device. All the real work happens on a Powermac or XServe somewhere that you're logged into, the client just drives the UI locally. No real HD, not much RAM, no removable storage - just Firewire, USB, Airport, and some kind of docking functionality so it can recharge. Because the hard work is done on your desktop or server, it doesn't need a fast processor.
In fact, it might not need to be much more than a 5GB iPod in terms of RAM, CPU and HD, driving a 12" touchscreen LCD. Toss in USB and Airport and a bigger battery. Weigh in around 2.5 lbs or so, is my guess for a decent battery life. Not bad.
I don't see streaming MPEGs or any of that crap. It's just a way to get information where you want it. Sure, for home you could view your iPhoto slideshow, or plug in your camera and download photos, but it's not a replacement for your computer.
You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen.
Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.
It's easy to underestimate the technical merits of a pad of paper, but consider for a moment the following:
1. Durability. Drop a pad of paper from a 10 story building. Your notes are intact. Try the same with a tablet.
2. Reliability. Pad of paper has no batteries to run out, no HDs to get hosed, no mechanical components to break. It just works.
3. Endurance. Pad of paper IS a backup. It's your solid copy of important information, on hand and ready to peruse. As for the safety of notes on a tablet....better get out those CD-R and do daily backups. I'd hate to lose it all because someone nudged me while I was writing to it and dropped it on the floor.
4. Gee-Whiz factor. The tablet wins here. You can show it off to your friends so they will think you're cool. Be the first on your block to use a tablet--chicks dig it, men fear it. Pad of paper gets only a limp response and makes you look so 20th century.
5. Tablets are for losers. This is self-evident as Micro$oft are pushing tablets on the general population like a bad batch of crack.
If anyone still thinks a tablet is a good idea, then just wait until more tablets are released onto the consumer market and watch them all tank.
JD destroys tablet advocates without breaking sweat.
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>"You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen. "
JD destroys tablet advocates without breaking sweat.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I do find it highly amusing that the people I know who still use Palms/Handsprings/iPaqs/... have all bought these silly little keyboards for them. In fact, many are looking to update to the newer models like the Sony Clie with a built-in keyboard.
The keyboard rules, and will do for a long, long time.
1) So I am to understand that the tablet sits somewhere between a PDA and a laptop, and that you are to write on it by hand.
This IMO has no chance at all. For keyboards are, after getting used to - and for most people, by far a faster means of input. Plus, a PDA is possible still, it can be carried without much problem, and so on. To be short: it is truly a niche product.
2) Yet, one good example for its use is a hospital. But then, living in a family of MD's, let me tell you this: the medical world is deeply Windozed. If any CD-ROM's arrive from the government or the pharmaceutical companies, they are PC only (truly PC, .exe-a-go-go). I think this holds true for many professions (except for design and publishing, ...). To be short: it is a niche product in which Apple will never do no good. (Yet it makes me wonder why they produced InkWell).
3) Let's take the following statement:
[quote] originally posted by Blackcat:
[Apple turned MP3 players from niche geek toy to mass market music device.<hr></blockquote>
That is truly a very bad example. There has been, since the release of the first walkman in the eighties, and even in ghettoblaster times before that, a large audience for this kind of portable music solutions. After the cassette died, there has been some flirting with discmen and minidisc-players, but these were not that viable (the discman because of its size - although they were and are very popular, it just explains why people were ready to switch,, the minidisc players because of their nichy nature).
It's just to say: the world was ready and waiting for something to truly replace the beloved Walkman. Small-size HD MP3-players is just such a thing.
I really don't think it is fair to say that MP3 players were a geek niche product (as they are offspring of the Walkman, which is not a niche product).
<strong>
The kiosk market alone is about the size of Apple's market, and there are largely touch rather than writing devices. Tablets don't replace laptops. They'll replace a few... They'll replace a few PDAs, but not most.
The tablet is an *extension* of your computer so that you can bring information to people, rather then the reverse. They're perfect for doctors, dentists, nurses, sales people, service people, customer service, field marketing people, the list goes on.
These are people that are either serviced with dedicated hardware (like the UPS hardware) or none at all. I'd buy a tablet for every one of my staff so that they could bring information to our clients. It allow service professionals to focus on the customer relationship without having to insert a desk into the equation.
It's not a huge market relative to the general PC market, but it's a huge market relative to Apple's market.
Personally, I see a tablet as a remote thin client device. All the real work happens on a Powermac or XServe somewhere that you're logged into, the client just drives the UI locally. No real HD, not much RAM, no removable storage - just Firewire, USB, Airport, and some kind of docking functionality so it can recharge. Because the hard work is done on your desktop or server, it doesn't need a fast processor.
In fact, it might not need to be much more than a 5GB iPod in terms of RAM, CPU and HD, driving a 12" touchscreen LCD. Toss in USB and Airport and a bigger battery. Weigh in around 2.5 lbs or so, is my guess for a decent battery life. Not bad.
I don't see streaming MPEGs or any of that crap. It's just a way to get information where you want it. Sure, for home you could view your iPhoto slideshow, or plug in your camera and download photos, but it's not a replacement for your computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm no expert on Kiosk machines, but I don't necessarily think Kiosk machines are tablets, they generally seem to be some sort of touch screen LCD jobbie with some kind of wily connection scheme to some PC hidden someplace ... and I don't think putting a real tablet in place of the way kiosks work now is much of a value boost to kiosk users or makers.
The other issue is this whole concept of a "thin" client - it turns out that the amount of effort and energy necessary to make a viable thin OS is almost the same effort and energy to make your main OS ... and with the price of hard drives, their size, and capabilities these days, I really don't see much benefit to Apple to fork their OS for the sake of a thin client, it would simply be much better if Apple made the OS itself more flexible for a tablet type application - if there's any point to Apple to doing more of a Pallet approach!
Now I couldn't agree more that there's plenty of people who work away from desks, yet need to get information into a form or out of a database ... but each of these professions, medical, sales, etc are completely separate markets ... each will require their own marketing scheme, and each may already be seriously dominated by windoze ... and as badly as they need it, there's no guarantee they'll choose an Apple solution, even if it is the best one.
This whole "boy are there ever a lot of people who need a pallet" smells a little too much of the typical numbers fallacy, which goes something like:
"If there's over a billion people in China, then all I have to do is get one person in a thousand to send me one single dollar, and then I'll be rich! Now how hard can that be?"...
... inevitably, a lot harder than most suppose at first, causing a lot to find out the hard way.
<strong>Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think JYD has got a strong point here: a tablet might sell, but never in the consumer market segment. Of course, it'd be incredibly cool to own one such thing, I'd probably buy one too, but what the hell-I always wanted to own a Cube, so I guess I'm not the kind of customer that saves Apple's ass...
A specialized tablet might be a totally different thing, but then I don't think Apple could justify the associated R&D expenses...
Oh, and regarding the fact that a tablet should only run the GUI locally: to me it's pretty clear that under OS X the GUI is one of the things that require more processing power. It's horribly slow on my Titanium, try to run THAT on an iPod-level CPU+HD+Ram... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
ZoSo
<strong>
I do find it highly amusing that the people I know who still use Palms/Handsprings/iPaqs/... have all bought these silly little keyboards for them. In fact, many are looking to update to the newer models like the Sony Clie with a built-in keyboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And what fascinates me is that people who actually use those things trade crappy, poorly integrated HWR for crappy, cramped mini-keyboards and consider it a tradeup.
[quote]<strong>The keyboard rules, and will do for a long, long time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
HWR won't catch on until it's done right. That includes software that's smart enough to tell when you're drawing and when you're writing - or at least, which makes it painless to switch modes. There's a whole lot of latitude that you have with a pen that you simply don't have with a keyboard. But the input system has to be top-notch, and the applications have to be designed to work closely with it. As long as that's not true, people will continue to amuse me to no end by poking carefully at Lilliputian keyboards.
<strong>You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quite right, as a well-entrenched medium that everyone can operate, requires no power source and is universally recognised, you'll need to go a long way before paper gets beat. It's tangible, it's readily transportable, and easily miniaturised. What more do you need?
There's a delicious sense of irony in the offices I visit where people get in every morning, retrieve their email and... print it all out!
People like paper, and there's a distinct psychological aspect to making a permanent change. I suspect that this is why electronic books have never taken off, even though such a device would be a very trivial hardware and software exercise.
Yes, for data entry of the box-ticking type, there's a market there (ever see those LCD monsters the UPS guys carry around to digitise a signature?), but for anything else, it's a woefully limited approach.
<strong>
You people don't have a clue. $800 gadgets aren't going to replace a $2 pad of paper and pen, it's simply not going to happen. [QB]
Who suggested that it will replace a pad of paper and a pen. Just because it looks like a pad of paper and a pen, doesn't mean that's what it's for any more than a computer is a TV because it looks like a TV.
The problem the tablet mainly addresses is delivering information *to* the user (rather than the user going to the information), and sending tightly structured (not freeform, like a pad of paper) information to the server.
Any person who spends most of their time interacting directly with a database doing minimal data entry is a possible candidate for a tablet - especially if they are doing it in a service situation.
[QB]Yes such a product (wireless tablet synched to hospital records) may be useful in the medical sector, but that is a far, far cry from Apple making a profit on a CONSUMER tablet. Don't confuse the two. One is for a specific purpose, the other is looking for a use.</strong>
Who the f**k ever said anything about a consumer use? Apple's not selling a lot of XServes to consumers either, are they?!
<strong>1. Durability. Drop a pad of paper from a 10 story building. Your notes are intact. Try the same with a tablet.</strong>
Strawman argument. The tablet needs to be durable - yes, but no more so than an iBook. I've dropped mine from standing height. It's fine.
<strong>2. Reliability. Pad of paper has no batteries to run out, no HDs to get hosed, no mechanical components to break. It just works.</strong>
IT'S NOT REPLACING A PAD OF PAPER!
<strong>3. Endurance. Pad of paper IS a backup. It's your solid copy of important information, on hand and ready to peruse. As for the safety of notes on a tablet....better get out those CD-R and do daily backups. I'd hate to lose it all because someone nudged me while I was writing to it and dropped it on the floor. </strong>
IT'S NOT REPLACING A PAD OF PAPER!
<strong>4. Gee-Whiz factor. </strong>
Who gives a shit about that...
<strong>5. Tablets are for losers. This is self-evident as Micro$oft are pushing tablets on the general population like a bad batch of crack.
If anyone still thinks a tablet is a good idea, then just wait until more tablets are released onto the consumer market and watch them all tank.</strong><hr></blockquote>
They don't belong on the consumer market right now. The soonest they do is when they *can* sit in the digital hub at a price point low enough to bundle with a computer. Most web surfing doesn't involve typing (maybe a little), using iTunes is almost no typing, using iPhoto is almost no typing. Using a tablet to drive your new Philips Rendevous enabled HES makes a lot of sense, but that's at least a year or two away, and a lot of cost cutting.
The tablet is useful to a surprisingly large business market that either has no existing solution, or has custom built solutions.
MS isn't pushing tablets onto consumers, they're pusing tablets onto businesses. There's just a little spillover that you're getting obsessive about.
<strong>HWR won't catch on until it's done right. That includes software that's smart enough to tell when you're drawing and when you're writing - or at least, which makes it painless to switch modes. There's a whole lot of latitude that you have with a pen that you simply don't have with a keyboard. But the input system has to be top-notch, and the applications have to be designed to work closely with it. As long as that's not true, people will continue to amuse me to no end by poking carefully at Lilliputian keyboards.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There's nothing funnier than seeing... How to put this delicately... A portly young fellow on the subway attempting to type on a Palm keyboard balanced on his knee.
As far as HWR is concerned, it's no good to me as a replacement for a keyboard until it can recognize my handwriting. My natural handwriting, and not necessitate having to write neatly, or use a forced alphabet.
And I've got to know it's recognized and converted accurately without checking. I can touch type a thousand words and perhaps a couple of times I'll know that the word I just entered wasn't right and needed correcting.
It's all a long way off.
<strong>As far as HWR is concerned, it's no good to me as a replacement for a keyboard until it can recognize my handwriting. My natural handwriting, and not necessitate having to write neatly, or use a forced alphabet.
And I've got to know it's recognized and converted accurately without checking. I can touch type a thousand words and perhaps a couple of times I'll know that the word I just entered wasn't right and needed correcting.
It's all a long way off.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, if it's possible for a human to recognize your natural handwriting, it should be possible for a computer.
For my part, I have two or three completely different a's and e's (a legacy of the calligraphy classes I took in college), by n's and u's are hard to tell apart, and I've been known to dot the general vicinity of an i. All in a style that varies between sorta-uncial, cursive and print depending on whim, with z's and 7's crossed as a result of my time in Europe. So I'm not expecting anything soon either. In fact, I don't think it'll really take off until the HWR engine can learn grammar, too, and use that as well as a dictionary to narrow down the options for what a word must be.
Then it would have to have some way of knowing when an arrow is shorthand for "this implies..."
Keyboards do have the advantage that there's no ambiguity about what will appear when you type the 'x' key. It's a pity, because I think much better with a pen. So I guess I'll be sticking to paper for a while, when I need to work things out or brainstorm.
[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
<strong>Well, if it's possible for a human to recognize your natural handwriting, it should be possible for a computer.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You've seen my scrawl then?
And judging by John Siracusa's experiments, Inkwell ain't too hot.
A more organic shaped version of the iPod. A scroll wheel to dial numbers downloaded from address book. Colour screen. And the ability to take silly low res photos of people doing 'moonies' when they're drunk.
And like somebody else said around here somewhere...because it was made by apple it would have no speaker...
Lemon Bon Bon <img src="confused.gif" border="0">