Why is Flip flopping so bad?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Honest question, I have been thinking about this a bit, and I can't come up with a good reason why 'flip-flopping' is so bad.



a good quote is "if one can't change one's mind, one has no mind."



So what's the big deal? all politicians flip flop on issues, why is kerry getting such a railing because he does too



I for one, admire people who have the guts to admit they were wrong and change their stance. Sometimes stalwart committing to a cause isn't going to benefit you or anyone else ya know?



I dunno, just with all this talk about flip flopping...I guess it's just the flavor of the month, but still, it's hardly grounds to not vote for someone. \
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 30
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    It depends, I think.



    I agree that being able to change one's mind is a good thing to have... but we too often in this country vote for issues, not people. If I vote for an issue, and the person who said that they'd push that issue for me changes their mind while in office, I'm screwed. If, instead, I vote for a person, and trust their judgment, and they change their mind, then I'm probably going to be more sanguine about it and say "Okay, maybe there are some good reasons."



    We all have too much of an ego to think that we could *possibly* be wrong, so most people vote issues.



    *shrug*
  • Reply 2 of 30
    Oh. I thought this was a thread on why Flip Saunder's Minnesota Timberwolves were in a slump. hmmm...



    Here's my take and quote on the subject:

    Quote:

    Sometimes in engineering, being consistent is better than being right.



  • Reply 3 of 30
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    electioneering eh?
  • Reply 4 of 30
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yup, and note my next line after that.



    *You* would vote for a person whose opinion you trust, I'd wager, as do I. I look for candidates who I think will act the way *I* would, if I had the time to research things thoroughly.



    A lot of the bible-thumpin' Baptists around here will vote issues, period. If their elected candidate were to change their mind, then the candidate would be wrong, wrong, wrong, in their eyes. Period. That's voting on an issue.
  • Reply 5 of 30
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Wrong Robot

    Honest question, I have been thinking about this a bit, and I can't come up with a good reason why 'flip-flopping' is so bad.



    a good quote is "if one can't change one's mind, one has no mind."



    So what's the big deal? all politicians flip flop on issues, why is kerry getting such a railing because he does too



    I for one, admire people who have the guts to admit they were wrong and change their stance. Sometimes stalwart committing to a cause isn't going to benefit you or anyone else ya know?



    I dunno, just with all this talk about flip flopping...I guess it's just the flavor of the month, but still, it's hardly grounds to not vote for someone. \




    I think you hit the part on the head that has been used to slam Mr. Kerry though. You said someone should rethink the issue, admit they were wrong and then claim the new position.



    Most of the flip-flopping on Mr. Kerry's seems to be nothing more than political convenience. There is no admission any of the previous positions were every wrong. He seems to take whatever position will get that persons vote.



    That to me is the worst form of flip flopping. It doesn't improve the lot of anyone. It doesn't give us a more enlightened leader with better, more well thought out views, it just leads to someone who will possibly do anything in office since they said anything to get there.



    Take a look at Kerry and his criticism of No Child Left Behind. Bush has piled tons more money into education. NCLB was enacted with the vote of Kerry and was decided by the Senate 87-10. That is hardly a partisan vote. Yet now it is evil because the Democrats/Kerry want it as an election issue again.



    Certainly Republicans can do this as well, and likely have or do. But you asked why we (or in this case me) think flip-flopping is bad. Coming to a more enlightened, thought out view is fine. Doing it just to get the votes of a particular crowd, in a particular state on a particular night isn't.



    Nick
  • Reply 6 of 30
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    Mr. Kerry is a professional politician, it is his wont to ride the positions that take him the farthest toward the goal of more influence.
  • Reply 7 of 30
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Most of the flip-flopping of Mr. Bush seems to be nothing more than political convenience. There is no admission any of the previous positions were every wrong. He seems to take whatever position will get that persons vote.



    That to me is the worst form of flip flopping. It doesn't improve the lot of anyone. It doesn't give us a more enlightened leader with better, more well thought out views, it just leads to someone who will possibly do anything in office since they said anything to get there.
  • Reply 8 of 30
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Take a look at Kerry and his criticism of No Child Left Behind. Bush has piled tons more money into education. NCLB was enacted with the vote of Kerry and was decided by the Senate 87-10. That is hardly a partisan vote. Yet now it is evil because the Democrats/Kerry want it as an election issue again.



    You should take a look at Kerry and his criticism as well, because you certainly didn't represent it there. I have two words for you: UNFUNDED MANDATE. I think it would be really beneficial to yourself and to everyone else here if we could research a candidate's actual position on something before railing against it. Mkay? Thanks.
  • Reply 9 of 30
    dviantdviant Posts: 483member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ShawnJ

    You should take a look at Kerry and his criticism as well, because you certainly didn't represent it there. I have two words for you: UNFUNDED MANDATE. I think it would be really beneficial to yourself and to everyone else here if we could research a candidate's actual position on something before railing against it. Mkay? Thanks.



    Maybe you should read it too?



    Quote:

    By signing the No Child Left Behind Act and then breaking his promise by not giving schools the resources to help meet new standards, George Bush has undermined public education and left millions of children behind._



    How does that undermine what Trumpt said? The above quote from your link makes it sound like the only bad thing was that Bush "broke his promise", implying that as passed, the Act was a good thing and only become tainted because Bush "lied". Makes it look like Kerry was behind it all the way but was mislead by the evil Republican. Funny how it doesn't mention that Kerry didn't even vote for it in the first place.



    All politicians are opportunists but to me Kerry seems more opportunist that most.
  • Reply 10 of 30
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    Most of the flip-flopping of Mr. Bush seems to be nothing more than political convenience. There is no admission any of the previous positions were every wrong. He seems to take whatever position will get that persons vote.



    That to me is the worst form of flip flopping. It doesn't improve the lot of anyone. It doesn't give us a more enlightened leader with better, more well thought out views, it just leads to someone who will possibly do anything in office since they said anything to get there.




    Such wonderful prose, and so well thought out. Of course I actually sorted an example. Perhaps you could copy that as well.



    Nick
  • Reply 11 of 30
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ShawnJ

    You should take a look at Kerry and his criticism as well, because you certainly didn't represent it there. I have two words for you: UNFUNDED MANDATE. I think it would be really beneficial to yourself and to everyone else here if we could research a candidate's actual position on something before railing against it. Mkay? Thanks.



    Last I checked, Kerry, and practically every other Democrat voted for it. They voted for it knowing the funding level as well. It is something trying to be turned into an election year issue. They have raised no IDEOLOGICAL issues with the legislation, rather they complain (belatedly) about the funding levels.



    Nick
  • Reply 12 of 30
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Such wonderful prose, and so well thought out. Of course I actually sorted an example. Perhaps you could copy that as well.



    You missed the point again:

    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Certainly Republicans can do this as well, and likely have or do.



    Likely?
  • Reply 13 of 30
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Wrong Robot

    electioneering eh?



    Why, yes. Flip-flops and various "-gates" are also essential in Electioneering.
  • Reply 14 of 30
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Wrong Robot

    Honest question, I have been thinking about this a bit, and I can't come up with a good reason why 'flip-flopping' is so bad.



    Overall, it usually reveals that the politician has other motives than the expressed ones.



    If you look at each of the many Bush flip-flops since he's been president, you can see why each one is so bad. A few of the bigger ones, notably homeland security department and 911 commission, show that they are trying to hide something. But each of the many bush flip-flops basically show that you can't trust him when he says something.



    Kerry's a flip-flopper to. Hell, all politicians play the game. But the Bush admin brings it to a whole other level. It's like trying to compare the Charlie Murphy's True Hollywood Stories to Crank Yankers. Sure, both are funny,* but Crank Yankers has nothing on Charlie Murphy.



    *OK, CY can be funny. Sometimes.
  • Reply 15 of 30
    shawnjshawnj Posts: 6,656member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    they complain (belatedly) about the funding levels.



    Sounds good to me.
  • Reply 16 of 30
    mattjohndrowmattjohndrow Posts: 1,618member
    i like that quote garden
  • Reply 17 of 30
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    It is a nice quote, however, I don't think it should apply to the human equation. Math may have it's constants, but humanity does not.
  • Reply 18 of 30
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    kerry is on both sides of so many issues that his balls gotta be in pain from stradling the fence...



    he is more than a mere flip-flopper who had a change of opinion a few weeks ago. he wants to please everyone and in the prosess is ailenating everyone, need evedence, here is a quote



    " I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it. "



    and he is just a plain out-and-out jerk, another quote



    "I don't fall down," the "son of a b*itch knocked me over."



    kerry for presedent?



    presedent of what, the wwf?





    <more info on kerry, Mr. "i dont fall">

    On Friday, Kerry, his snowboard strapped to his back, hiked past 9,000 feet on Durrance Peak, then snowboarded down the mountain, taking repeated tumbles. Reporters counted six falls, although Kerry was out of sight for part of the descent.



    courticy drudge

    http://drudgereport.com/kerryid2.htm

    </more info on kerry, Mr. "i dont fall">
  • Reply 19 of 30
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    That's nice, but neither of those examples make kerry a bad presidential candidate in my eyes. Besides, the *last* thing I want people to do is go out of their way to defame him. If you don't support kerry, then give me a reason to support bush(or whoever), not a reason to not support kerry.







    Besides, if you really want to mudsling, President bush did cocaine. I win.

    x1000
  • Reply 20 of 30
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Rather have someone that flip-flops, than someone who lies and misleads on purpose on MAJOR life endangering issues



    Drudge? LMAO.



    Better to fall snowboarding, than to fall while using something DESIGNED to avoid falls...like a Segway. Ahem.
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