Take it from an ex-iBook owner (just sold it yesterday), even Jaguar is unbearable on it (at least on my 500 mhz w/66 mhz bus). Anything less than a G4 imo is pointless at this point.
<strong>Take it from an ex-iBook owner (just sold it yesterday), even Jaguar is unbearable on it (at least on my 500 mhz w/66 mhz bus). Anything less than a G4 imo is pointless at this point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course, I'm using it on a Pismo 400MHz, and find it just fine for my work...
<strong>No, when any sort of SIMD capable app is used the differemce is enormous. Think audio, video, and big 2/3D files.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, but that isn't exactly what the iBook is designed for. Big 2D/3D file arn't suited to a 12" or 14" monitor. The iBook is techinly for internet/word processing(not SIMD depenant).
Of course, I'm using it on a Pismo 400MHz, and find it just fine for my work...
Needs vary.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My need is for my computer not to run like a 100 mhz Pentium. Of course, there are lots of people out there still running businesses and doing real world work with 100 mhz Pentiums. Maybe that's good enough for your needs, but for me, it's unacceptable. I use Logic Audio for music, that requires raw mhz power and Altivec power for host-based DSP. I also trade options. The trading platform for my options broker (which allows me to manually route my order through any of the 5 exchanges of my choice) is a PC app. I need to run Virtual PC to use it. The latter, my iBook is almost fine for (need lots more RAM though), but only in OS 9. It is documented that VirtualPC is a LOT slower in OS X vs. in OS 9, to the point where on a 500 mhz iBook, it's pretty much unuseable (along with just running OS X).
I owned a Piss-mo 400 mhz at one point too, worst computer I ever owned and the only Apple I ever regretted owning.
My need is for my computer not to run like a 100 mhz Pentium. Of course, there are lots of people out there still running businesses and doing real world work with 100 mhz Pentiums. Maybe that's good enough for your needs, but for me, it's unacceptable. I use Logic Audio for music, that requires raw mhz power and Altivec power for host-based DSP. I also trade options. The trading platform for my options broker (which allows me to manually route my order through any of the 5 exchanges of my choice) is a PC app. I need to run Virtual PC to use it. The latter, my iBook is almost fine for (need lots more RAM though), but only in OS 9. It is documented that VirtualPC is a LOT slower in OS X vs. in OS 9, to the point where on a 500 mhz iBook, it's pretty much unuseable (along with just running OS X).
I owned a Piss-mo 400 mhz at one point too, worst computer I ever owned and the only Apple I ever regretted owning.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Obviously the iBook you owned was less than optimal for your needs, but to be fair the newest 'books have a new processor revision clocked 40% higher than your's, a faster bus, and a much improved grfx card.
Obviously the iBook you owned was less than optimal for your needs, but to be fair the newest 'books have a new processor revision clocked 40% higher than your's, a faster bus, and a much improved grfx card.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is a good point you bring up and definitely one to consider. I've had the opportunity to work with a top of the line current model 14" 700 mhz iBook and my conclusion is that OS X needs the Altivec to really shine. It's more bearable than my first generation iBook, but still, that missing bit of Altivec magic is definitely noticeable.
[quote]I owned a Piss-mo 400 mhz at one point too, worst computer I ever owned and the only Apple I ever regretted owning. <hr></blockquote>
Funny, that's the one Mac I DO regret selling...
Damn, I used that thing EVERYWHERE.
SoundJam was the alarm that woke me up in the morning, listened to music on it while getting ready, read news on it at the table while having breakfast. Used it all day at work, it played our music while making dinner and eating... and it entertained me while watching TV, and I'd usually post here from it in bed at night...
Damn I miss that computer. And just look at what selling it did to me... I'm freakin' addicted to selling computers.
Murbot, I have to admit, I haven't been too good at holding on to my computers the last couple of times. Used to be every 3 years I got a new computer, my iBook that was just sold lasted just under a year. My previous machine, the Piss-mo 400, lasted 8 months. The one before, a WallStreet 233, lasted two years. I want to hold on to my next computer (hopefully a new TiBook) as well and stop the upgrade insanity.
[quote] The Tablet PC is expected to make its official debut at a Nov. 7 event held by Microsoft, sources said. Other manufacturers preparing tablet-style PCs include Acer, NEC, Legend and Toshiba. <hr></blockquote>
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If they're smart, they'll have it on November 5th or 6th, to take all the wind out of MS' hype.
That's much more evil (and more effective) than trying to go head to head with MS. Besides, after the number of times MS has done it to Apple, it's only fair.
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good in theory, but unfortunately unless Apple's iBook has a detachable screen and a super new processor, it won't steal MS' thunder.
It'll simply be another Apple laptop upgrade. The Tablet announcement is a new product and new category (however flawed) and will surely garner more press.
i'm actually on my second TiBook as the first was ruined beyond repair when I fell down some steps on an escalator, sick of worrying about scratches, paint wear etc...[QB]<hr></blockquote>
No offense dude... but if you think you can throw an iBook down stairs either you will find yourself buying a new iBook. Just forwarning. Hardier? Yes. 3-Year old proof? In progress... Invincible? No.
If you really, really need a G4 then buy a TiBook.
For the rest of us the G3 is fine. If it has a large cache and a fast graphics chip with decent memory then OS X runs OK.
I would like to see the iBook get a bit thinner and much lighter. It should lose at lease a pound. The CPU speed should go up to 800 or 900MHz (at least). The HD could easily go to 40GB. A few months ago I bought a 40GB Toshiba with liquid bearings for my Pismo 500 and it is great. Still quiet after a couple months of use.
I also would like to see the iBook change to make it easier to change the HD and memory yourself.
If they could fit a 13 inch display inside the same form factory that would be nice.
My god, some of you are beyond help. The form factors of both laptops are fine as they are. As is the weight! Geeze. Apple is already a leader as far as design goes -- where they're ahead of the competition. The SHAPE AND/OR WEIGHT are NOT the problems with either the iBook or TiBook. PRICE and PERFORMANCE are, period. The G4 is the minimum, MINIMUM!!!, god damn it, of an acceptable modern macintosh. And it should be in the iBook. The TiBook is far too expensive given the middling speed it offers: barely half the speed of the slowest powermac. Bad, very very bad, for a $5000 Canadian machine.
The size and weight of the machines is better than fine, but the G3 absolutely is not fine -- in fact it's a bigger piece of crap than the bus crippled G4. Power and heat have been successfully overcome with far less laptop adept chips than the PPC, forget that it isn't an issue with either the G3 or the G4. Altivec is absolutely essential because it is the one redeeming performance characteristic of the PPC. I'v used iBooks, and they're slow. The response of a new machine should be crisp not sagging under the first few app installs. For christ sake, just run iPhoto, go ahead, or put together a couple of clips in iMovie. IT's fvcking SLOW.
In a couple of months there will be PDA's on the market with more CPU power than the bottom iBook, that's just sad.
No ifs ands or buts about it, unless that 'if' happens to be an altivec Sahara (essentially a G4 equivalent) the iBook is yesterdays machine, even in Apple's slo-mo .5X Moore's Law time-space shift. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Matsu, I agree, the price/performance ratio on the TiBooks is not attractive enough for me at this point to purchase a TiBook. Hence my waiting for a new machine in hopes that Apple realizes that their current top of the line laptop falls well out of the competition in terms of value. At this point, I say let people vote with their money, because that seems to be the only way to make Apple listen. They did with the Cube (too expensive), and remember when Apple "wisely" decided that consumers would prefer a DVD ROM drive to a CDRW? It's a shame it took them a few bad quarters to listen in that instance. I'm voting right now by not buying the current offering of TiBook. And as a former iBook owner, I agree with you completely, G3 has no business running OS X. The idea that it's still in the Apple product line (even if it is bottom of the barrel) makes me realize that Apple really needs to review its power/performance value chain.
Comments
<strong>[qb]Originally posted by gumby5647:
I think Apple needs a low cost, low heat, low power CPU option (a celeron, if you will). And the 750Fx G3 is just that...</strong>
This is why Apple really really needs a 0.13u G4.
<hr></blockquote>
Yes, but the question is....will Motorola even fab a 7455 on .13nm......
<strong>Take it from an ex-iBook owner (just sold it yesterday), even Jaguar is unbearable on it (at least on my 500 mhz w/66 mhz bus). Anything less than a G4 imo is pointless at this point.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Of course, I'm using it on a Pismo 400MHz, and find it just fine for my work...
Needs vary.
<strong>No, when any sort of SIMD capable app is used the differemce is enormous. Think audio, video, and big 2/3D files.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, but that isn't exactly what the iBook is designed for. Big 2D/3D file arn't suited to a 12" or 14" monitor. The iBook is techinly for internet/word processing(not SIMD depenant).
<strong>
Of course, I'm using it on a Pismo 400MHz, and find it just fine for my work...
Needs vary.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My need is for my computer not to run like a 100 mhz Pentium. Of course, there are lots of people out there still running businesses and doing real world work with 100 mhz Pentiums. Maybe that's good enough for your needs, but for me, it's unacceptable. I use Logic Audio for music, that requires raw mhz power and Altivec power for host-based DSP. I also trade options. The trading platform for my options broker (which allows me to manually route my order through any of the 5 exchanges of my choice) is a PC app. I need to run Virtual PC to use it. The latter, my iBook is almost fine for (need lots more RAM though), but only in OS 9. It is documented that VirtualPC is a LOT slower in OS X vs. in OS 9, to the point where on a 500 mhz iBook, it's pretty much unuseable (along with just running OS X).
I owned a Piss-mo 400 mhz at one point too, worst computer I ever owned and the only Apple I ever regretted owning.
<strong>
My need is for my computer not to run like a 100 mhz Pentium. Of course, there are lots of people out there still running businesses and doing real world work with 100 mhz Pentiums. Maybe that's good enough for your needs, but for me, it's unacceptable. I use Logic Audio for music, that requires raw mhz power and Altivec power for host-based DSP. I also trade options. The trading platform for my options broker (which allows me to manually route my order through any of the 5 exchanges of my choice) is a PC app. I need to run Virtual PC to use it. The latter, my iBook is almost fine for (need lots more RAM though), but only in OS 9. It is documented that VirtualPC is a LOT slower in OS X vs. in OS 9, to the point where on a 500 mhz iBook, it's pretty much unuseable (along with just running OS X).
I owned a Piss-mo 400 mhz at one point too, worst computer I ever owned and the only Apple I ever regretted owning.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Obviously the iBook you owned was less than optimal for your needs, but to be fair the newest 'books have a new processor revision clocked 40% higher than your's, a faster bus, and a much improved grfx card.
<strong>
Obviously the iBook you owned was less than optimal for your needs, but to be fair the newest 'books have a new processor revision clocked 40% higher than your's, a faster bus, and a much improved grfx card.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is a good point you bring up and definitely one to consider. I've had the opportunity to work with a top of the line current model 14" 700 mhz iBook and my conclusion is that OS X needs the Altivec to really shine. It's more bearable than my first generation iBook, but still, that missing bit of Altivec magic is definitely noticeable.
Funny, that's the one Mac I DO regret selling...
Damn, I used that thing EVERYWHERE.
SoundJam was the alarm that woke me up in the morning, listened to music on it while getting ready, read news on it at the table while having breakfast. Used it all day at work, it played our music while making dinner and eating... and it entertained me while watching TV, and I'd usually post here from it in bed at night...
Damn I miss that computer.
The next laptop I'm keeping - I promise!
[quote] The Tablet PC is expected to make its official debut at a Nov. 7 event held by Microsoft, sources said. Other manufacturers preparing tablet-style PCs include Acer, NEC, Legend and Toshiba. <hr></blockquote>
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
<strong>From news.com:
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
If they're smart, they'll have it on November 5th or 6th, to take all the wind out of MS' hype.
That's much more evil (and more effective) than trying to go head to head with MS. Besides, after the number of times MS has done it to Apple, it's only fair.
<strong>
As in times past, I think Apple will have a "special event" on Nov. 7 to compete for media attention with the iBook's perceived new competition.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good in theory, but unfortunately unless Apple's iBook has a detachable screen and a super new processor, it won't steal MS' thunder.
It'll simply be another Apple laptop upgrade. The Tablet announcement is a new product and new category (however flawed) and will surely garner more press.
[QB]
i'm actually on my second TiBook as the first was ruined beyond repair when I fell down some steps on an escalator, sick of worrying about scratches, paint wear etc...[QB]<hr></blockquote>
No offense dude... but if you think you can throw an iBook down stairs either you will find yourself buying a new iBook. Just forwarning. Hardier? Yes. 3-Year old proof? In progress... Invincible? No.
<strong>
The PB is too heavy, and too fragile...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Umm, the Tibook actually weighs LESS than a 14" ibook, and only a half pound more than the 12" one, so I don't think you'll notice much difference.
For the rest of us the G3 is fine. If it has a large cache and a fast graphics chip with decent memory then OS X runs OK.
I would like to see the iBook get a bit thinner and much lighter. It should lose at lease a pound. The CPU speed should go up to 800 or 900MHz (at least). The HD could easily go to 40GB. A few months ago I bought a 40GB Toshiba with liquid bearings for my Pismo 500 and it is great. Still quiet after a couple months of use.
I also would like to see the iBook change to make it easier to change the HD and memory yourself.
If they could fit a 13 inch display inside the same form factory that would be nice.
The size and weight of the machines is better than fine, but the G3 absolutely is not fine -- in fact it's a bigger piece of crap than the bus crippled G4. Power and heat have been successfully overcome with far less laptop adept chips than the PPC, forget that it isn't an issue with either the G3 or the G4. Altivec is absolutely essential because it is the one redeeming performance characteristic of the PPC. I'v used iBooks, and they're slow. The response of a new machine should be crisp not sagging under the first few app installs. For christ sake, just run iPhoto, go ahead, or put together a couple of clips in iMovie. IT's fvcking SLOW.
In a couple of months there will be PDA's on the market with more CPU power than the bottom iBook, that's just sad.
No ifs ands or buts about it, unless that 'if' happens to be an altivec Sahara (essentially a G4 equivalent) the iBook is yesterdays machine, even in Apple's slo-mo .5X Moore's Law time-space shift. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />