ePAD

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
I want to make an argument that Apple must make a novel new product to revolutionize the education market. This comes as I near the end of my tour of duty doing student teaching in a high school.



Here's my thinking.



1. The iBook is too much for the education market.



(i.e. it costs too much for most k-12, does more than most students need, and is really too much for a lot of students to carry around)



2. The iBook is too little for the education market



(battery life, no pen input)



3. Apple needs to make a device that is nearly an extension of the students body.



Apple was king in the ed market, but when everyone went off to work they faced a cruel reality that they had to use PCs. But a pocket sized device is something that can stay with them wherever they go.



4. The device must make education cheaper.



The magic price point for a k-12 computer is when the costs are made up in the savings in paper, administration, and textbooks.



For these reasons and others I believe apple must make a PDA with...



<$400

640X480 resolution or wider

screen input

wireless networking

Ideally an 8 hr battery life or more

A removable ruggedized enclosure

A wireless keyboard accessory that can be carried or provided in class

Is as big as possible while being light and still fitting in your pocket



And it must have software that...



extremely simplifies remote administration, control and backup by the teacher.

Has many intuitive, gesture based features like the newton.

reinvents the graphing calculator and math instruction.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 15
    tfworldtfworld Posts: 181member
    You know how cool this would be? Just imagine something more powerful then current PDA's, able to access the net anywhere, be able to play simple games, play back video, record video, inkwell input, GPS, video communicator... I think some of those will be a little bit further in the future... Regardless, I will give Apple my money for such a device!



    Who here thinks the ipod was merely a test to see user's acceptance of a pda?
  • Reply 2 of 15
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    I know of at least one similar product that was getting ready to be test marketed in schools. We were going to design teacher's manual to go along with it. We got word last month that the product was pulled, though no reason was given to us as to why they pulled the product. It was not an Apple tablet. It was approximately 6" x 9", and a color LCD screen, pressure sensitive, WiFi, USB, and docking station. Some other goodies too, though my impression was that it would be more than your target price and due to it's specs limited in market to Education, mainly primary and secondary.
  • Reply 3 of 15
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    You realize that the big contracts like Maine are leasing the iBooks for about $350 apiece, right?



    Businesses and enterprise customers (including large educational purchasers) don't pay retail for computer installations unless they want to. They submit bids and watch competitors try to undersell each other. Several small business owners I know have vouched for the fact that Apple, given the chance, can and will underbid Dell on a contract. The main problem is that they aren't given the chance in the first place.



    The economics of the really big contracts, like Maine, have no similarity at all to retail economics. For one thing, the hardware isn't always (or often) purchased, and if it is there are depreciation accounts set up, etc. It's really a different world.



    If Apple made a tablet cheaper than an iPod (and think about that for a second - could they?) they'd probably throw them into a large contract for free, the way they threw PowerBooks in for the teachers in Maine. Personally, I think it's more likely that the iBook will become like the machine you're speculating about, only closer to the $1K retail price point. Schools will be paying less than $400 apiece if the state or district buys them anyway, so no loss.
  • Reply 4 of 15
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Your contention that the iBook is too little for the edu market is completely wrong.



    1.) There is absolutely no evidence that the edu market requires a tablet or pen input. None. I don't know of any schools offering it in my area, neither do I know of any 'educators' -- not technocrats -- requesting it. People on message boards have wet dreams about it, people actually working with the technology have rejected every current iteration thus far.



    2.) While I welcome more battery life, K-12, doesn't need it. Mains plugs abound, and computers aren't deployed in a class for more than 2-3 hours at a time, and that's a long stretch too. More often than not teachers in these grades want the computers closed/off, when they're actually teaching.



    Often a computer is still just an expensive toy that a classroom can do without -- more useful for keeping hyperactive children distracted, so teachers don't go crazy, than actually serving a useful pedagogical purpose.
  • Reply 5 of 15
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    You realize that the big contracts like Maine are leasing the iBooks for about $350 apiece, right?



    Yeah, actually I was aware that they were severely discounted for big ed contracts. I was suggesting less than $400 retail because that might translate to near $200 in bulk.



    I've been trying to figure out what the real break even price point is. Check my reasoning out...



    Textbooks are replaced about every 10 years, costing about $50 a student, but with 5 different classes a year over 4 years that's about 4x5x50 = $1000 per student /10 years = $100 per student. Paper costs per student are negligable, but there is a big cost in paper management affecting teacher productivity. Obviously, publishers aren't going to give away their books, but their is a big potential savings for them going all digital, maybe 50%. So an ePad could cut the cost per student to $50, but that's still a way to go to justify a $200 increase per student. Presuming each ePad can weather 10 years of use (a big assumption) covering use by 2.5 students that's $200/2.5 = 80 bucks.



    Bottom line, even at $200 with a sweetheart deal with textbook publishers, free maintainence and replacement support, Apple would still need to make the argument that an extra $30 per student is worth the savings in teacher time and the hassle of adopting a completely new system.



    Edit- For emphasis, I must stress that with budget cuts, adminstrators don't place easing teacher hassle as a high priority.
  • Reply 6 of 15
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    1.) There is absolutely no evidence that the edu market requires a tablet or pen input. None. I don't know of any schools offering it in my area, neither do I know of any 'educators' -- not technocrats -- requesting it. People on message boards have wet dreams about it, people actually working with the technology have rejected every current iteration thus far.[/B]



    As someone who is disgraphic and managed to go all the way through K-12 without any recognition of my disability I would suggest that there is still need for some assessment and instruction in handwriting.



    After teaching in high school, I know for a fact that most of our students can't write legibly. While I appreciate the use of a keyboard (and included one as a requirement for a successful device) limiting the students to keyboard input only would, in many ways, be a disservice to them.

    Quote:

    2.) While I welcome more battery life, K-12, doesn't need it. Mains plugs abound, and computers aren't deployed in a class for more than 2-3 hours at a time, and that's a long stretch too. More often than not teachers in these grades want the computers closed/off, when they're actually teaching.[/B]



    While I believe you can implement a computer solution that depends on AC connections the objective is to make computers as little of a departure from book and paper in ease of use as possible. Runing power cables to every student's desk is a nightmare. Hell, you could just as easily make the argument that wireless net is unnecessary as we can go ahead and run ethernet while we are at it. A full day of school without a recharge is ideal, a compromise might be a once a school day charge, maybe during lunch hour, but even that is a managment nightmare.



    Quote:

    Often a computer is still just an expensive toy that a classroom can do without -- more useful for keeping hyperactive children distracted, so teachers don't go crazy, than actually serving a useful pedagogical purpose. [/B]



    This is where the software is important. The teacher must be able to monitor and lockup the ePads during class use, limiting them to the task at hand. Ideally, a student should walk into class and their ePad automatically uploads due assignments, downloads new ones, and shuts down their mp3 players, games, and everything else.



    I agree that computers often are employed for glitz, more than utility. That's why I'm concentrating on the utility.



    I've got a stack of papers to check sitting next to me, half of which I can barely read, a quarter which I must figure out if they were turned in late due to absence or tardiness. Then I have to enter all my grades into the gradebook, hand them back, update interested parents on student performance, contact special ed about other student's progress, and a whole bunch of other administrative hassles.



    There is definately a non-trivial use for computers in school
  • Reply 7 of 15
    tfworldtfworld Posts: 181member
    I just want something that will do what a computer does but is hand held and NOT windows based... I current ipaqs are close, but not quite there... Maybe in 3-5 years such a device will be available.
  • Reply 8 of 15
    majormattmajormatt Posts: 1,077member
    I would love a tablet, I hate using a laptop. The keyboard is far too shallow and I dont like using trackpads or anything other than a mouse.



    I am most comfortable with a (paper) notebook and writing stuff down on it. This is why an iPad or eBook appeals to me. I would love if it felt like a regular notebook but could transform my notes into type or well, just leave it. Imagine doing math with a graphing calculator, your notes, tables just a click away. Drool.
  • Reply 9 of 15
    Didn't Mac already take a bath on something like this with the eMate?



    http://www.everymac.com/images/cpu_p..._emate_300.jpg



    There is no reason an iBook is not suitable for classroom use.



    You said: 1. The iBook is too much for the education market.



    (i.e. it costs too much for most k-12, does more than most students need, and is really too much for a lot of students to carry around)



    I say the weight of an iBook is less than a common textbook. there is no reason that schools can't get their student text in PDF format and store them all on the laptops eliminating the need to carry physical books.



    You said:2. The iBook is too little for the education market



    (battery life, no pen input)



    5 hours of battery life is adequate for school use. Students aren't expected to sit and use the computer for five straight hours. The school day is only 6 hours long in most cases. Pen input is a so-so argument. Until there is adequate handwriting recognition software (Ink is good but not great) there is no reason to use the laptop like a spiral bound notebook. In many cases a simple pen and paper is the best solution to note taking in class. It's silent and requires no additional hardware.



    You said: 3. Apple needs to make a device that is nearly an extension of the students body.



    Apple was king in the ed market, but when everyone went off to work they faced a cruel reality that they had to use PCs. But a pocket sized device is something that can stay with them wherever they go.



    A modern notebook is about as close as you are going to get to a body extention. A palm-type device is great for carrying around a to-do list, phone directory, or calculator function but any truly interactive tasks (like note taking) are nearly impossible on such a small screen with stylus input. Also, there are some things that palm-type devices are great for, like limited web browsing, but a full on laptop is better for that, AND everything else.





    You said: 4. The device must make education cheaper.



    The magic price point for a k-12 computer is when the costs are made up in the savings in paper, administration, and textbooks.



    I say, this has been the argument since the first Apple 2 was installed in the first classroom in the world, and it hasn't eliminated the cost or paper output at all. And it won't until the entire infrastructure is upgraded specifically to support paperless operation. And the cost of that is prohibitively expensive. You haven't also considered the impact on non-computing teachers, how much is support? What happens when the teacher's computer malfunctions? What happens when the network fails? How do you control cheating?



    Paper eliminates all of these problems.



    You said: <$400

    640X480 resolution or wider

    screen input

    wireless networking

    Ideally an 8 hr battery life or more

    A removable ruggedized enclosure

    A wireless keyboard accessory that can be carried or provided in class

    Is as big as possible while being light and still fitting in your pocket



    I say: too small, too little power, too limited.



    You say: And it must have software that...



    extremely simplifies remote administration, control and backup by the teacher. Has many intuitive, gesture based features like the newton.

    reinvents the graphing calculator and math instruction.



    I say: remote administration in a school of 2000 students is not only improbable, it's nearly impossible without a full-on IT department offering support. As for the software requirements you suggest, TI makes great calculators, and paper notebooks are cheap and require no batteries.
  • Reply 10 of 15
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MajorMatt

    I am most comfortable with a (paper) notebook and writing stuff down on it. This is why an iPad or eBook appeals to me. I would love if it felt like a regular notebook but could transform my notes into type or well, just leave it. Imagine doing math with a graphing calculator, your notes, tables just a click away. Drool.



    While I too, would like a full sized tablet mac, I think the PDA has shown us that the typical 8.5 X 11 in form factor is overkill for most school type functions. Most paperbacks and magazines already demonstrate a preference by readers for reading in small columns.



    I do like the idea of a double screen PDA. Having one side for reading material and the other for notes is compelling, but I would prefer Apple hitting the $200 mark. Maybe a second offering for the "pro-student"
  • Reply 11 of 15
    kraig911kraig911 Posts: 912member
    I personally think the reason why the ibook or any other notebook for that matter isn't too much for K-12, its just that the curriculum being taught doesn't take in its capabilities as it could. There's much that could be done true, I too long for a pen input. I know there are some of you that think they are worthless, but I continue to see them more and more. The majority of use I see them for is not a standard computer tho, its something entirely different, like for presentations, we have this one client that hooks up a handheld microscope picture taker to a pC one that uses it to take pictures of people skin, (they are a salon), thats connected to their database, and they fill out all the peoples stuff on it too. Its pretty clever, true for things like this where you have to type large amounts it doesn't help. But think of one where they replace say a projector, and the rock for presentations, where people like me have to use huge drawing boards. I think they are great for entirely different uses. don't try and fit them into the context of what you use a computer for. Remember its like office apps, before they were created people didn't understand the need for them, and now you can't see yourself without them.
  • Reply 12 of 15
    What I hate about writing up projects etc on my computer is that if the data I am sourcing is on the same machine, I have to keep flicking between one app and another to read data and the write it. So I look at the PDF, remember what is written there, then flick back to Word and start to....... POO!! I forgot what it said!!! Flick back to PDF, read it again, flick back to Word....... i think you see my point.



    For my work I quite often flick between 3 or 4 different papers and have multiple pages bookmarked for easy reference.... I don't think I would save time or sanity if I had 4 PDF's open to flick between.



    The aspect ratio of current screen is all wrong for books too (although I realise that this is not a problem when designing a new product).



    The other issue I have is that I take notes... big, messy, wouln't-make-sence-to-anyone-else notes. I write something down, think it's a bad idea and scribble it out. Then later I realise that it was a valid point and instead of trying to remember what I wrote, I just go back and I can still read it under the scribble.



    My worry about these "note book" devices that seem to be a popular request is that we will lose the art of taking notes that suit us individually. As a student of teaching, Nordstrodamus, you would surely know that 2 students may not learn in the same way. That one will prefer diagrams and examples and the other will prefer cold hard facts. But there are 20 kids in your class room, another 1980 in your school, tens of thousands of schools nationally and millions across the globe. How should this software be made to work?? There are limits to how many ways they can make it work in one package and this limits the children it is trying to help into a paradigm of learning that isn't right for them.



    What you have asked for is a device that is looking for an application. What Apple is good at is finding an application that needs a device (or software).



    M2C
  • Reply 13 of 15
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nordstrodamus

    As someone who is disgraphic and managed to go all the way through K-12 without any recognition of my disability I would suggest that there is still need for some assessment and instruction in handwriting.





    Yes, it can happen with paper and pen, and may be better left that way.

    Quote:



    After teaching in high school, I know for a fact that most of our students can't write legibly. While I appreciate the use of a keyboard (and included one as a requirement for a successful device) limiting the students to keyboard input only would, in many ways, be a disservice to them.




    I agree, but this speaks a number of issues in education that will not be resolved with a tablet.



    Quote:



    While I believe you can implement a computer solution that depends on AC connections the objective is to make computers as little of a departure from book and paper in ease of use as possible. Runing power cables to every student's desk is a nightmare. Hell, you could just as easily make the argument that wireless net is unnecessary as we can go ahead and run ethernet while we are at it. A full day of school without a recharge is ideal, a compromise might be a once a school day charge, maybe during lunch hour, but even that is a managment nightmare.









    You don't want to put students in front of a computer for the whole work day, trust me. I've never understood the pre-occupation with bringing digital to the classroom in mundane ways -- like pervasive notetaking, which may also happen with pen and paper -- it's just such an awful way to learn. I see lit profs ruining lectures because some dept head has told them they need to integrate powerpoint, just an example of one of the many ways that we force technology into use for it's own sake, and it's detrimental both to technology and learning.



    Quote:

    This is where the software is important. The teacher must be able to monitor and lockup the ePads during class use, limiting them to the task at hand. Ideally, a student should walk into class and their ePad automatically uploads due assignments, downloads new ones, and shuts down their mp3 players, games, and everything else.



    I agree that computers often are employed for glitz, more than utility. That's why I'm concentrating on the utility.








    All of that can be done with an iBook. The software solutions of which you speak have no real need for tablet implementation: it can all be done with iBooks.



    Quote:



    I've got a stack of papers to check sitting next to me, half of which I can barely read, a quarter which I must figure out if they were turned in late due to absence or tardiness. Then I have to enter all my grades into the gradebook, hand them back, update interested parents on student performance, contact special ed about other student's progress, and a whole bunch of other administrative hassles.



    There is definately a non-trivial use for computers in school




    Again, what you describe is not neccessarily easier for being digitized. A ledger a pen and a phone will get the job done just the same, seeing as you have to submit hard copy anyway. Do you really want to grade text from a computer screen without any sort break? And even if you do, does a tablet change anything?



    A tablet would have a place, once a host of technical problems are overcome, but it will not displace the notebook, and nothing you have argued gives any reason why it should.
  • Reply 14 of 15
    I still say that Apple should make a tablet/laptop hybrid like the Gateway machines.....those things are sweet.



    They are the best of both worlds....laptops with the ability to input with a pen and use the tablet features.



    I really think that this may be the wave of the future....well, at least for scientists.....my boss has gotten one and says he will never go back. They are perfect for reading and editing papers and powerpoint presentations.....or for sketching out experiments or ideas for grants......etc.



    I wish Apple would make one.





    -Dr.Bimane
  • Reply 15 of 15
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    Yes, it can happen with paper and pen, and may be better left that way.



    Two points- 1. There is a whole lot of things that would be solved by across-the-board adoption of research suported effective teaching, but providing the best tools doesn't hurt (and is appearantly more politically feasible). Presently, I would trust the reinforcement provided by newton-style handwriting recognition over that provided by the average (I stress average) teacher.



    2. Segregating the skills of writing and drawing from what would undoubtedly be the primary conduit by which students get their education (the computer, that is) is a sure way to see such skills atrophy.





    [/b]

    Quote:

    You don't want to put students in front of a computer for the whole work day, trust me.



    Of course I don't, but when they do have to take notes, reading material, work on a worksheet, or activity, I do want them to have one convenient, reliable, and dynamic access point.



    Quote:

    All of that can be done with an iBook. The software solutions of which you speak have no real need for tablet implementation: it can all be done with iBooks.



    Aside from handwriting and free hand drawing, of course the iBook can do all these, but so can a Powermac G5. It's just overkill.



    Quote:

    Again, what you describe is not neccessarily easier for being digitized. A ledger a pen and a phone will get the job done just the same, seeing as you have to submit hard copy anyway. Do you really want to grade text from a computer screen without any sort break? And even if you do, does a tablet change anything?



    Obviously, if I'm advocating a paper free education I would want that to translate to administrative issues, so ideally, no, there would be no hard copy. And given the choice between reading the chicken scratch that passes for hand writing or reading type/recognized handwriting on a computer screen I would take the screen any day.



    And yes, a tablet does change things as I could simply demand that the student check their handwritten response to see if the computer can recognize it, removing a subjective evaluation by me as to whether their writing is acceptable.



    Quote:

    A tablet would have a place, once a host of technical problems are overcome, but it will not displace the notebook, and nothing you have argued gives any reason why it should. [/B]



    Well, I never argued that a tablet would displace the notebook. Each serves it's purpose. A small, cheao, PDA-type tablet serves the K-12 education market better than a large, expensive notebook with no pen input.



    I just attended a lecture on PDAs employed in elementary education and one of the most compelling ponts is that the students tended to carry (and use) the PDAs around with them everywhere. After teaching a semester in which students ask me nearly every day whether they need there books tomorrow because, appearantly, it is incredibly cumbersome for them to bring them to class, I find very exciting that students actually like to carry around there PDAs.
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