No Eugene I understood you perfectly. Are you just trying to be argumentative? If you hadn't gone all thing on me in the other thread and taken stupid umbrage because I won't accept the sun always shines out of Apple's arse then you might have realized that in fact we agree on this point
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Originally posted by Eugene
"The penchant for most people to use p2p services is born out of convenience rather a desire to steal."
Which is exactly what I meant when I said
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in regard to some issues, for instance characteristics of file sharers, as far as I can tell we're actually pretty much in agreement and yet you've still replied as if there's some sort of challenge going on
It's this bit we don't agree about
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iTMS is ALREADY more convenient than any p2p network.
So even though iTunes encryption can hamper fair use and this product can overcome it, because the RIAA wants worse solutions we are supposed to start kissing Apple's ass?
I fail to spot the logic. Digital music seems to bring out the irrational in people.
Barto
you make a good point, but when you buy in itms, you are getting a product that while still great, they are of lower quality than a cd, and so far every one here has faild to see one thing: when you buy from ITMS, you agree to the t.o.s., there is no t.o.s. on a CD.
More Convenient === More Downloads seems a bit of a logical leap, particularly comparing one service available in a single country with multiple p2p apps working globally. The fact that you have to pay to download from iTMS would also seem to be a factor.
I would even argue that more downloads == less convenient. When I download from iTMS, one download yields the song I want. With p2p, I have to sometimes download upwards of 5-10 copies before I get the one I want.
Playfair doesn't appear to work on all songs. I've got it to work for only one so far. The others will just crash quicktime, finder, etc. They don't crash VLC but there is no audio. I just want to be able to share my songs with the other folks on iTunes at work.
I was using the drms file from VLC on windows. I found that you have to generate a key for every song you want to convert. I originally thought you just needed one key for every song. That is not the case.
Your credibility just flew out the window. I already addressed this.
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And at some point you're going to have to pay. One, for making me break a promise and two, for making me have to hunt down a reference.
Pay...for what?
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Now be nice. You've gotten two smilies out of me in as many posts. That's almost a record.
IIRC, you're the one that took the aggressive, immobile stance first by saying Apple "are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
And soon after, you say "in the real world" the iTMS isn't "doing just fine."
Now you can go dig out a quote where I say the iTMS is the be-all-end-all. (hint: You imagined it.)
Oops! I forgot I meant to concede that the billion figure sounds like it must be inflated to me. But that's what the paper says and it is kinda heavy weight (UNC, Harvard BS).
Also I'd probably rephrase the "convenience" line to
"iTMS isn't yet sufficiently competitive with p2p." (IMHO ie.)
(And hell that wasn't me being aggressive and immobile. THAT was a love tap. I can be far more obnoxious and pigheaded than that).
Playfair doesn't appear to work on all songs. I've got it to work for only one so far. The others will just crash quicktime, finder, etc. They don't crash VLC but there is no audio. I just want to be able to share my songs with the other folks on iTunes at work.
found a possible solution, will try later:
Quote:
playfair runs fine, but the files it outputs crash iTunes / Winamp / Quicktime, etc. What's wrong?
If this is happening, the files haven't been decrypted properly. Either your iPod was not detected correctly and playfair got confused, or it detected your iPod, but it was connected through another Firewire device (external hard drive, hub, etc.). For some reason, the iPod has to be connected directly to the computer for it to work.
edit small addition, seems the ipod needs to be connected to the first firewire port, not sure why, only way it would work for my machine (QS 867, 10.3.3)
you make a good point, but when you buy in itms, you are getting a product that while still great, they are of lower quality than a cd, and so far every one here has faild to see one thing: when you buy from ITMS, you agree to the t.o.s., there is no t.o.s. on a CD.
Just because something exists in a T.O.S. doesn't make it right, and hence immoral to break. Prior to the DMCA it would have been perfectly legal for you to use PlayFair in America - part of your fair use rights - regardless of any T.O.S.
Like you're such a fine example of humility. Most of what you've said in this thread and the other is your opinion. As is, I'd venture to suggest, about 90% of anything ever said at AI. IMHO, IMHO and IMO are two of the most overused acronyms around here. To me it's usually blatantly obvious that something is somebody's opinion and I'm sure it is to you too.
So what exactly is your go, Eugene. What's your problem here? Into power tripping or something? Double standards perhaps? You tell me and we'll both know.
Just because you state something doesn't mean it is merely an opinion, as even maddox acknowledges. It's probably best to clarify when you stray outside the totally subjective ("modern art sucks!" vs. "the holocaust didn't happen").
And I still want to know what iTMS being "competitive" with p2p actually means. As well as there being a rank shift there, like saying the Ford Taurus isn't competitive with motorcycles, it also incredibly vague. Could we have something more concrete? Like "more people use", "better selection", "cheaper than", "easier to find jazz" etc.
Evidently, some people haven't grasped the concept of individual opinions. Judging by the number of files transferred - 2.5 Million a week vs 50 Million a week - a lot of people have the individual opinion that P2P is the better way to get music. In other words, iTMS isn't competitive enough for them. We've already gone over the possible reasons a zillion times: restricted listening (DRM), limited selection, cost. Obviously at least one of those is important to people, more important than the illegality and unreliability of P2P.
I'm not saying iTMS isn't successful... if it's making a profit for Apple, then by golly it's successful for them. But the numbers say it's not as competitive as P2P.
Comments
Originally posted by crazychester
Did I just fall into an alternate universe?
I go to work for a few hours. I come back and both Eugene and stupider...likeafox have grown a brain in my absence.
You seem to have entirely misinterpreted my stance, and stupider's for that matter. Not surprising at all.
I said above:
"The penchant for most people to use p2p services is born out of convenience rather a desire to steal."
That is exactly the same argument I used before. iTMS is ALREADY more convenient than any p2p network. This is just icing.
Originally posted by Eugene
"The penchant for most people to use p2p services is born out of convenience rather a desire to steal."
Which is exactly what I meant when I said
in regard to some issues, for instance characteristics of file sharers, as far as I can tell we're actually pretty much in agreement and yet you've still replied as if there's some sort of challenge going on
It's this bit we don't agree about
iTMS is ALREADY more convenient than any p2p network.
A billion music downloads a week says I'm right. (ref. http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/)
And at some point you're going to have to pay. One, for making me break a promise and two, for making me have to hunt down a reference.
Now be nice. You've gotten two smilies out of me in as many posts. That's almost a record.
Originally posted by Eugene
That is exactly the same argument I used before. iTMS is ALREADY more convenient than any p2p network. This is just icing.
Is it just icing if iTunes does not run on your OS? (just for instance.. there are other ways DRM'd music can be *unusable*)
Originally posted by Barto
So even though iTunes encryption can hamper fair use and this product can overcome it, because the RIAA wants worse solutions we are supposed to start kissing Apple's ass?
I fail to spot the logic. Digital music seems to bring out the irrational in people.
Barto
you make a good point, but when you buy in itms, you are getting a product that while still great, they are of lower quality than a cd, and so far every one here has faild to see one thing: when you buy from ITMS, you agree to the t.o.s., there is no t.o.s. on a CD.
I've got a problem with the install. I get through configure without any problems, and it tells me that I have no problems with the IOKit.
But then I get this when I try to make drms.c:
drms.c: In function `GetiPodID':
drms.c:1214: parse error before `value'
drms.c:1220: `port' undeclared (first use in this function)
drms.c:1220: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
drms.c:1220: for each function it appears in.)
drms.c:1222: `matching_dic' undeclared (first use in this function)
drms.c:1232: `iterator' undeclared (first use in this function)
drms.c:1234: `device' undeclared (first use in this function)
drms.c:1236: `value' undeclared (first use in this function)
make[3]: *** [drms.lo] Error 1
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make: *** [all] Error 2
-> Looking at the code for DRMS, it looks like it just can't find the IOKit headers, when I know, and configure knows for a fact that they are there.
Any ideas?
Originally posted by crazychester
A billion music downloads a week says I'm right. (ref. http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/)
Your credibility just flew out the window. I already addressed this.
And at some point you're going to have to pay. One, for making me break a promise and two, for making me have to hunt down a reference.
Pay...for what?
Now be nice. You've gotten two smilies out of me in as many posts. That's almost a record.
IIRC, you're the one that took the aggressive, immobile stance first by saying Apple "are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
And soon after, you say "in the real world" the iTMS isn't "doing just fine."
Now you can go dig out a quote where I say the iTMS is the be-all-end-all. (hint: You imagined it.)
(Chester makes mental note: Eugene, the one with no sense of humor).
I'm not getting into a slanging match with you.
Also I'd probably rephrase the "convenience" line to
"iTMS isn't yet sufficiently competitive with p2p." (IMHO ie.)
(And hell that wasn't me being aggressive and immobile. THAT was a love tap. I can be far more obnoxious and pigheaded than that).
Originally posted by Mr Beardsley
Playfair doesn't appear to work on all songs. I've got it to work for only one so far. The others will just crash quicktime, finder, etc. They don't crash VLC but there is no audio. I just want to be able to share my songs with the other folks on iTunes at work.
found a possible solution, will try later:
playfair runs fine, but the files it outputs crash iTunes / Winamp / Quicktime, etc. What's wrong?
If this is happening, the files haven't been decrypted properly. Either your iPod was not detected correctly and playfair got confused, or it detected your iPod, but it was connected through another Firewire device (external hard drive, hub, etc.). For some reason, the iPod has to be connected directly to the computer for it to work.
edit small addition, seems the ipod needs to be connected to the first firewire port, not sure why, only way it would work for my machine (QS 867, 10.3.3)
Originally posted by a_greer
you make a good point, but when you buy in itms, you are getting a product that while still great, they are of lower quality than a cd, and so far every one here has faild to see one thing: when you buy from ITMS, you agree to the t.o.s., there is no t.o.s. on a CD.
Just because something exists in a T.O.S. doesn't make it right, and hence immoral to break. Prior to the DMCA it would have been perfectly legal for you to use PlayFair in America - part of your fair use rights - regardless of any T.O.S.
Barto
Originally posted by crazychester
"iTMS isn't yet sufficiently competitive with p2p." (IMHO ie.)
There you go! I knew you could do it.
Originally posted by Eugene
There you go! I knew you could do it.
Oh piss off.
Like you're such a fine example of humility. Most of what you've said in this thread and the other is your opinion. As is, I'd venture to suggest, about 90% of anything ever said at AI. IMHO, IMHO and IMO are two of the most overused acronyms around here. To me it's usually blatantly obvious that something is somebody's opinion and I'm sure it is to you too.
So what exactly is your go, Eugene. What's your problem here? Into power tripping or something? Double standards perhaps? You tell me and we'll both know.
Barto
Just because you state something doesn't mean it is merely an opinion, as even maddox acknowledges. It's probably best to clarify when you stray outside the totally subjective ("modern art sucks!" vs. "the holocaust didn't happen").
And I still want to know what iTMS being "competitive" with p2p actually means. As well as there being a rank shift there, like saying the Ford Taurus isn't competitive with motorcycles, it also incredibly vague. Could we have something more concrete? Like "more people use", "better selection", "cheaper than", "easier to find jazz" etc.
I'm not saying iTMS isn't successful... if it's making a profit for Apple, then by golly it's successful for them. But the numbers say it's not as competitive as P2P.
Barto