SUVs are not the only large vehicles out there. Look at minivans. Yes, there are not full-sized vans and yes, they are normally built on the chassis of a 4-door sedan, but they are also quite large and seem to get larger every year. I have a Toyota Sienna, it drives like a car, but I feel like I'm in an SUV. It is clearly much larger than minivans built a few years ago. It is a really nice vehicle, but I hate that the blind spots are so big. I am constantly turning my head (and I'm fairly tall) to see out the side windows to make sure that a small vehicle is not there. The last thing I want to do is cut someone off, but because I sit up so high over the cars around me, I expect to do that despite my best efforts not to.
Yes, but minivans weigh much less than a comparably sized SUV. Why? Because it's a car frame (light, strong, *safe*) instead of a truck frame (heavy, brittle, unsafe). They're safer to the occupants *and* less of danger to others on the road.
SUVs are *nothing more* than cargo trucks with seats bolted into the bed and some flimsy sheet metal wrapped around it. They are not cars, and they are not subject to the same safety regulations.
I wouldn't say BAN SUVs, but how about imposing a 55mph speed limiter on them?
I'd like to see:
1) Consumer education to hammer home that they are *NOT* safer. Period. Jubelum, you state that anyone can come up with numbers to support their position. So do so. Find us studies that state that SUVs are safer. I'll bet you even money you can't... I've yet to find *one*. But we can point you to others that state what we are asserting.
2) Special licensing. Commercial drivers have to have license addendums for driving larger than normal vehicles - make it the same for SUV drivers. I have an addendum for motocycles, it's not unusual. Train the drivers that they *CANNOT* drive it like a car. If they're in an accident where that training was ignored? Throw the book at them. Someone died? Manslaughter. Etc. Make them think twice about their liabilities.
Some argue against special ?communistic? regulations discouraging or restraining SUVs, not recognizing that currently, SUVs in fact get special treatment encouraging their use. Despite being sold and used as people movers, the auto industry has succeeded in continuing to have SUVs classified as trucks from the purpose of gas, emissions and safety standards. SUVs are a sick joke.
SUVs are *nothing more* than cargo trucks with seats bolted into the bed and some flimsy sheet metal wrapped around it. They are not cars, and they are not subject to the same safety regulations.
There was an interesting article in the New Yorker a couple of months back describing the disbelief and amusement on the part of auto industry executives as the SUV craze took off. They simply could not believe that people were not only willing to buy SUVs in large numbers, but were willing to pay a significant premium for what, in most cases, were low-technology vehicles. They were laughing at their own customers, but were more than happy to take their money.
1) I will choose what I drive. I love my SUV. And yes, it meets my needs better than other vehicles.
2) Put my SUV against a Saturn in a head-on, and tell me who wins. Statistics and "engineering" can't change physics. My family IS safer.
3) Fuel efficiency. Mine has an inline 6 in it. It's not terrible on gas. It could be better, but it is currently the best option for me. Show me a better product and I'll buy it.
What about trucks? Do you guys think full size trucks should be banned as well? My Dodge Ram Quad cab is larger than my wifes Z71 Chevy Tahoe!
Anything I hit becomes mush!
Just joking about the mush thing. My wife feels safer driving her new SUV than she did before. She sits up higher than in a car and can see everything better. For her that was a big selling point along with the ability to haul more cargo should have to swap vehicles.
People have a right to drive whatever they want. The free market works.
There are plenty of things that people have a right to do that aren't right to do.
As for the free market, it works better than anything else we've tried at balancing resources with desires, but it isn't perfect, and it doesn't do anything to ensure that the desires being met are sensible or that they serve the common good.
To some extent, of course, serving the common good doesn't matter. We are allowed to be selfish to some extent -- that's part of our freedom. Being generous and kind should come from our own initiative, it shouldn't be legally enforced. On the other, when our choices unreasonably harm or endanger others, that's a reasonable place for regulations and laws to step in.
I think one of the best things to do about SUVs is being done right here -- expressing loathing for them. The more hated they become, the less value they have as status symbols. It doesn't require an act of law to create social pressure.
Your truck has specific uses that other vehicles *cannot* meet - heavy cargo hauling for one. If you need it for that, then great. If not, then it's just as big a waste.
I'm not for banning SUVs, I'm for hammering into people's heads basic facts about their lack of safety.
And SDW... how can you honestly sit there and say that physics *ISN'T* statistics and engineering?!? Jesus, that's the height of ignorance right there.
I think instead of banning SUV's that a special endorsement would be of value. When I got my first street motorcycle, I had to take a written test then a road test. I think something like that would be good for SUV's since there are obviously different techniques that are needed in driving SUV's.
SUV's serve a purpose. I think thinks like Hummers are just silly. If I had my druthes SUV would be required to drive in the slower lanes only. How many times have I been behind one that has blocked my vision to the point where I cannot see if their is a traffic slowdown. I think once we get to the HUGE SUV sizes efforts must be taken to keep them from driving 80MPH on the highway.
Personally if I was buying a car right now I might be looking along the lines of the 2005 Chrysler 300C V8. I love a big Sedan.
Awesome! You mean I can be hated for driving an SUV in addition to being hated for being an evil white Protestant libertarian-conservative male capitalist? Great! One more thing that we can hate people for! Score!
Good thing social pressure only works on the weak...
And all you SUV people: what happens if everyone drives an SUV? In order to keep your family safe, would you then put them in an even bigger vehicle in order to give them the supposed ?edge? in physics? That moronic logic would suggest a constant trend of increasing vehicle size in order to allow you to maintain the supposed size advantage.
Dude chill. I was just giving you a reason why my wife wanted a SUV, not to be called a brainless monkey. So in response:
Stop whinning about driving a tin can car. Go out and buy yourself a bigger car...problem settled. Pffft
Sorry, wasn't aimed at you or your wife specifically, just pointing out that that monkey-brain gut reaction *is* compelling, and a serious problem to educating people. They listen to their gut instead of the copious facts. They *feel* safer, so they assume they *are* safer. Doesn't work like that, but the *feeling* of safety is what is important to them in the short term, and that's what they listen to.
FWIW, I was trying to give your wife an out *instead* of just calling her stupid, but hey, take it for what you will.
Comments
SUVs are *nothing more* than cargo trucks with seats bolted into the bed and some flimsy sheet metal wrapped around it. They are not cars, and they are not subject to the same safety regulations.
Originally posted by Outsider
I wouldn't say BAN SUVs, but how about imposing a 55mph speed limiter on them?
I'd like to see:
1) Consumer education to hammer home that they are *NOT* safer. Period. Jubelum, you state that anyone can come up with numbers to support their position. So do so. Find us studies that state that SUVs are safer. I'll bet you even money you can't... I've yet to find *one*. But we can point you to others that state what we are asserting.
2) Special licensing. Commercial drivers have to have license addendums for driving larger than normal vehicles - make it the same for SUV drivers. I have an addendum for motocycles, it's not unusual. Train the drivers that they *CANNOT* drive it like a car. If they're in an accident where that training was ignored? Throw the book at them. Someone died? Manslaughter. Etc. Make them think twice about their liabilities.
Originally posted by Kickaha
[...]
SUVs are *nothing more* than cargo trucks with seats bolted into the bed and some flimsy sheet metal wrapped around it. They are not cars, and they are not subject to the same safety regulations.
There was an interesting article in the New Yorker a couple of months back describing the disbelief and amusement on the part of auto industry executives as the SUV craze took off. They simply could not believe that people were not only willing to buy SUVs in large numbers, but were willing to pay a significant premium for what, in most cases, were low-technology vehicles. They were laughing at their own customers, but were more than happy to take their money.
1) I will choose what I drive. I love my SUV. And yes, it meets my needs better than other vehicles.
2) Put my SUV against a Saturn in a head-on, and tell me who wins. Statistics and "engineering" can't change physics. My family IS safer.
3) Fuel efficiency. Mine has an inline 6 in it. It's not terrible on gas. It could be better, but it is currently the best option for me. Show me a better product and I'll buy it.
You might as well paint that shit pink and put a giant wing on the back, SDW.
Anything I hit becomes mush!
Just joking about the mush thing. My wife feels safer driving her new SUV than she did before. She sits up higher than in a car and can see everything better. For her that was a big selling point along with the ability to haul more cargo should have to swap vehicles.
Originally posted by Jubelum
People have a right to drive whatever they want. The free market works.
There are plenty of things that people have a right to do that aren't right to do.
As for the free market, it works better than anything else we've tried at balancing resources with desires, but it isn't perfect, and it doesn't do anything to ensure that the desires being met are sensible or that they serve the common good.
To some extent, of course, serving the common good doesn't matter. We are allowed to be selfish to some extent -- that's part of our freedom. Being generous and kind should come from our own initiative, it shouldn't be legally enforced. On the other, when our choices unreasonably harm or endanger others, that's a reasonable place for regulations and laws to step in.
I think one of the best things to do about SUVs is being done right here -- expressing loathing for them. The more hated they become, the less value they have as status symbols. It doesn't require an act of law to create social pressure.
I'm not for banning SUVs, I'm for hammering into people's heads basic facts about their lack of safety.
And SDW... how can you honestly sit there and say that physics *ISN'T* statistics and engineering?!? Jesus, that's the height of ignorance right there.
Personally if I was buying a car right now I might be looking along the lines of the 2005 Chrysler 300C V8. I love a big Sedan.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
My wife feels safer driving her new SUV than she did before. She sits up higher than in a car and can see everything better.
And there we have the entire issue in a nutshell.
She feels safer... the realities of physics be damned, the psychology of being up higher is compelling.
You'd *think* that most people get use their brain over their gut, but I guess we really are just a bunch o' monkeys at heart. *sigh*
Awesome! You mean I can be hated for driving an SUV in addition to being hated for being an evil white Protestant libertarian-conservative male capitalist? Great! One more thing that we can hate people for! Score!
Good thing social pressure only works on the weak...
What a great thread. True Art.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You'd *think* that most people get use their brain over their gut, but I guess we really are just a bunch o' monkeys at heart. *sigh*
Dude chill. I was just giving you a reason why my wife wanted a SUV, not to be called a brainless monkey. So in response:
Stop whinning about driving a tin can car. Go out and buy yourself a bigger car...problem settled. Pffft
Laughable if it were not sad.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Dude chill. I was just giving you a reason why my wife wanted a SUV, not to be called a brainless monkey. So in response:
Stop whinning about driving a tin can car. Go out and buy yourself a bigger car...problem settled. Pffft
Sorry, wasn't aimed at you or your wife specifically, just pointing out that that monkey-brain gut reaction *is* compelling, and a serious problem to educating people. They listen to their gut instead of the copious facts. They *feel* safer, so they assume they *are* safer. Doesn't work like that, but the *feeling* of safety is what is important to them in the short term, and that's what they listen to.
FWIW, I was trying to give your wife an out *instead* of just calling her stupid, but hey, take it for what you will.