I think the major factor is how the code and data are structured -- if this work is done then vectorizing by hand with AltiVec is actually pretty straightforward (and fun, even). The auto-vectorizing compiler probably does pretty well if your data is nicely arranged and the algorithms are well suited to vectorization... but C just doesn't describe the algorithms in a way that compilers can really work with particularly well.
I don't know of ANY compilers that will "vectorize" code -- not to any extent as to be useful. AltiVec needs to be hand-coded, you don't just throw a compiler switch and get vectorized code.
It is likely that the binary was indentical in the above comparison, with no AltiVec instructions in it at all (despite "enabling" it via the compiler)</strong><hr></blockquote>
He misinterpreted my post. The vector OGR core for dnetc showed no changes because it was done in assembly. However, the massive jump in scalar performance is nothing to scoff at. It justs weirds me out how the gcc 3.2 optimized scalar core outperformed the hand-coded altivec core with the jump from 2.95.2 --> 3.x.
Here's some more <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/PPCSALESFACT.pdf"; target="_blank">fodder</a> for speculation! This document appears to detail the embedded side of G4 employment, i.e. higher frequencies than the ones stated should be expected on the desktop. I wonder though whether the Q2/03 introduction date for the 7447/57 also applies for Macs/the desktop? Hopefully not! The fact that a simple search for 7457 w/in Motorola brings up a document supposed to be for "internal use only" also makes me wonder if this is some sort of a controlled leak?
Interesting to see the MPX bus scale to 200 MHz as well as the 4 MB L3 cache support in the 7457. But what is supposed to happen between the 7457 and the almost legendary "G4+"? And when?! Wow, where do they learn being this specific and at the same time totally vague? Annoying.
Oh well, have fun. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> (goes to bed)
Then again MOT might have pulled info from their site at Apple request. Been quiet before on what Apple was going to release. Maybe Apple paid for a new chip that will be Apple only? Only Apple knows for sure, and, only time will tell.
<strong>The fact that a simple search for 7457 w/in Motorola brings up a document supposed to be for "internal use only" also makes me wonder if this is some sort of a controlled leak?</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Here's some more <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/PPCSALESFACT.pdf"; target="_blank">fodder</a> for speculation! This document appears to detail the embedded side of G4 employment, i.e. higher frequencies than the ones stated should be expected on the desktop. I wonder though whether the Q2/03 introduction date for the 7447/57 also applies for Macs/the desktop? Hopefully not! The fact that a simple search for 7457 w/in Motorola brings up a document supposed to be for "internal use only" also makes me wonder if this is some sort of a controlled leak?
Interesting to see the MPX bus scale to 200 MHz as well as the 4 MB L3 cache support in the 7457. But what is supposed to happen between the 7457 and the almost legendary "G4+"? And when?! Wow, where do they learn being this specific and at the same time totally vague? Annoying.
Oh well, have fun. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> (goes to bed)</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Apple has a very special deal with Motorola even with all their rumored bad blood. I looked when the new Powermacs came out and there was no mention of a 1.25 GHz chip. It would seem that Motorola definitely sells their top of the line to Apple exclusively until supply catches up with demand. If this sales pitch is still true, it may be what they tell other customers. It may not be available to them until 2Q 03 but Apple still might introduce a machine at MWSF. If they are allowed in
I don't know how legit that latest PDF is, but a 200MHz MPX bus MAY give Apple something until the 970 ships to them in quantity. Granted it's only 1.66GBps but that's 25% more bandwidth. With twice the L2 cache it should be a decent upgrade to the G4 family.
Gee, moki's only got 254 posts-are you going to settle on 250, or go with 300 and limit him to the 'junior' forums? It would be nice if there was a simple troll solution, but I don't think this is it...
<strong>when im proved correct i want all of you "whinners" to apologize!!!
i dont post that often so the comments disparaging
me are puzzling.
you guys take yourselves waaaay to seriously.
im a apple fan....o.k fanatic,but i have a little fun with it.
i read this board all the time and there are a few people such as the "programmer" whose post are technical and detailed and on point.
BARTO, you sir are a wannabe so step off me ok?
ive tried to show respect to other posters but once im single out the gloves come off.
i still say apple has something special planned in 2003,and its not the 970!</strong><hr></blockquote>
'ibm hater' & 'step off' ?!?!?! OK
GM, being an Apple fan an blindly wishing something to be X, Y or Z does not make it so. There are so many factors involved in all of this and it is pure conjecture that is espoused in place of actual knowledge.
Hell, market demand alone may have kept the G3 at 1Ghz, not technical reasons.
Hold your adolescent tongue a bit and think before you post.
Also, OW5 has a built in spell check, you might try that.
Comments
...I guess that's why your handle's 'Programmer', eh?
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong>
I don't know of ANY compilers that will "vectorize" code -- not to any extent as to be useful. AltiVec needs to be hand-coded, you don't just throw a compiler switch and get vectorized code.
It is likely that the binary was indentical in the above comparison, with no AltiVec instructions in it at all (despite "enabling" it via the compiler)</strong><hr></blockquote>
He misinterpreted my post. The vector OGR core for dnetc showed no changes because it was done in assembly. However, the massive jump in scalar performance is nothing to scoff at. It justs weirds me out how the gcc 3.2 optimized scalar core outperformed the hand-coded altivec core with the jump from 2.95.2 --> 3.x.
[ 10-25-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<a href="http://www.psrv.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.psrv.com/</a>;
Best
--
Ed M.
Interesting to see the MPX bus scale to 200 MHz as well as the 4 MB L3 cache support in the 7457. But what is supposed to happen between the 7457 and the almost legendary "G4+"? And when?! Wow, where do they learn being this specific and at the same time totally vague? Annoying.
Oh well, have fun. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> (goes to bed)
Ouch.
Lemon Bon Bon
<strong><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/27775.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/27775.html</a>;
Ouch.
Lemon Bon Bon</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not ouch...pure FUD. Never trust The Register for anything.
<strong>The fact that a simple search for 7457 w/in Motorola brings up a document supposed to be for "internal use only" also makes me wonder if this is some sort of a controlled leak?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Try mpc7540
<strong>
Try mpc7540</strong><hr></blockquote>
I get three hits. Each hit is around the 7450 with 1 instance of 7540 in them. I assume these are probably typos.
<strong><a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/27775.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/27775.html</a>;
Ouch.
Lemon Bon Bon</strong><hr></blockquote>
Isn't this just a rehash of the Architosh article?
<strong>Here's some more <a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/PPCSALESFACT.pdf"; target="_blank">fodder</a> for speculation! This document appears to detail the embedded side of G4 employment, i.e. higher frequencies than the ones stated should be expected on the desktop. I wonder though whether the Q2/03 introduction date for the 7447/57 also applies for Macs/the desktop? Hopefully not! The fact that a simple search for 7457 w/in Motorola brings up a document supposed to be for "internal use only" also makes me wonder if this is some sort of a controlled leak?
Interesting to see the MPX bus scale to 200 MHz as well as the 4 MB L3 cache support in the 7457. But what is supposed to happen between the 7457 and the almost legendary "G4+"? And when?! Wow, where do they learn being this specific and at the same time totally vague? Annoying.
Oh well, have fun. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> (goes to bed)</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think Apple has a very special deal with Motorola even with all their rumored bad blood. I looked when the new Powermacs came out and there was no mention of a 1.25 GHz chip. It would seem that Motorola definitely sells their top of the line to Apple exclusively until supply catches up with demand. If this sales pitch is still true, it may be what they tell other customers. It may not be available to them until 2Q 03 but Apple still might introduce a machine at MWSF. If they are allowed in
but believe me,i meant everything i said in that post.
as for motorola not having released their embedded processors based on the G5(e500 compatible core) well your wrong.
they are released!
these chips form the building blocks of a real G5 cpu!
this ibm 970 powerpc will be mucho expensive im guessing.
im not an ibm hater but really what have they done with the powerpc?
a 1ghz g3?
wooow!! im impressed! NOT!
the only way this announcement of a 1.8 ghz ibm970 could be significant is if it is released soon,like MWSF2003 or soon after.
otherwise its meaningless.
so many of you have gone over too the darkside.
when things got tough,you left the fold,were are the apple believers?
can i get a amen?
can i hear a halleluya?
im a believer brother.
i say ya!!!
im saying there will be a motorla G5 CPU or a supa g4 at MWSF2003 or soon after.
can i get a amen?
thank you jesus!!!!
i believe.....
i believe................
i believe...........................!!!!!!!
Senior Apple Tech Discussion
Senior General Tech Discussion
To post in these forums you will need a post count of over ~250-300, and have been a member for ~3-4 months.
Barto
[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
i dont post that often so the comments disparaging
me are puzzling.
you guys take yourselves waaaay to seriously.
im a apple fan....o.k fanatic,but i have a little fun with it.
i read this board all the time and there are a few people such as the "programmer" whose post are technical and detailed and on point.
BARTO, you sir are a wannabe so step off me ok?
ive tried to show respect to other posters but once im single out the gloves come off.
i still say apple has something special planned in 2003,and its not the 970!
<strong>Because of "geekmeat"'s post, I would like to take this oppertunity to again ask that when the switch to vB is made, 2 new forums be created.
Senior Apple Tech Discussion
Senior General Tech Discussion
To post in these forums you will need a post count of over ~250-300, and have been a member for ~3-4 months.
Barto
[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Gee, moki's only got 254 posts-are you going to settle on 250, or go with 300 and limit him to the 'junior' forums? It would be nice if there was a simple troll solution, but I don't think this is it...
<strong>when im proved correct i want all of you "whinners" to apologize!!!
i dont post that often so the comments disparaging
me are puzzling.
you guys take yourselves waaaay to seriously.
im a apple fan....o.k fanatic,but i have a little fun with it.
i read this board all the time and there are a few people such as the "programmer" whose post are technical and detailed and on point.
BARTO, you sir are a wannabe so step off me ok?
ive tried to show respect to other posters but once im single out the gloves come off.
i still say apple has something special planned in 2003,and its not the 970!</strong><hr></blockquote>
'ibm hater' & 'step off' ?!?!?! OK
GM, being an Apple fan an blindly wishing something to be X, Y or Z does not make it so. There are so many factors involved in all of this and it is pure conjecture that is espoused in place of actual knowledge.
Hell, market demand alone may have kept the G3 at 1Ghz, not technical reasons.
Hold your adolescent tongue a bit and think before you post.
Also, OW5 has a built in spell check, you might try that.
<strong>Because of "geekmeat"'s post, I would like to take this oppertunity to again ask that when the switch to vB is made, 2 new forums be created.
Senior Apple Tech Discussion
Senior General Tech Discussion
To post in these forums you will need a post count of over ~250-300, and have been a member for ~3-4 months.
Barto
[ 10-29-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is a fabulous idea, I'm all for it!
250 sounds a little high though. A 100 post minimum should do the trick.