Oh so you guys read a post thoroughly and strive to comprehend it and put it into the proper context when it agrees with you, but when it does not, screw it.
I did this little exorcize to demonstrate your own tactics and how transparent you are all being.
Oh so you guys read a post thoroughly and strive to comprehend it and put it into the proper context when it agrees with you, but when it does not, screw it.
I did this little exorcize to demonstrate your own tactics and how transparent you are all being.
Live and learn.
What now? Something about exorcising and transparency.... is there a ghost in your machine?
I don't know if you've seen Limbaugh's response, but he's actually not far from "oh, come on, they were just playing games".
Simple "hazing" in his book, nothing worse than what you would expect from a fraternity.
Which I guess would be an interesting point if fraternities were in the habit of driving around armed in black vans, snatching potential recruits off the streets without telling them what was up, confining them to a cell for a few months while forcing them to a wear a black hood, assuring them they would be beaten and killed if they didn't confess what they knew about rival fraternities, and occasionally dragging them out of their cells for a festive round of sexual humiliation and or physical abuse.
Rush must have gone to a really really harsh school.
Maybe the extremes of Rush's world-view are entirely informed by bad drugs and withdrawal symptoms:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, isn't it time we called the liberal winged crocodile monsters for what they really are? Demons from the fifth dimension with mind control rays and really really long hideous claws? Hideous claws that seem to pop out at you from an otherwise perfectly pleasant plate of fried chicken, chicken which, could it speak, would certainly tell you horrible horrible things about yours truly's very own childhood, ladies and gentlemen, things that the winged crocodile monster media will never tell you because their mouths are like gaping holes, holes that carry you down, down, down......"
is fighting to uphold the core American values of decency, tolerance and justice.
And anyone who disagrees hates America. Hates George Bush, who is making America loved and respected throughout the world. Hates democracy itself, yes, and the right to a fair trial, and all of those other things that even fucking sandnigg, er, Arabs deserve.
he Defense Department approved interrogation techniques for use at the Guantanamo Bay prison that permit reversing the normal sleep patterns of detainees and exposing them to heat, cold and "sensory assault," including loud music and bright lights, according to defense officials.
The classified list of about 20 techniques was approved at the highest levels of the Pentagon and the Justice Department, and represents the first publicly known documentation of an official policy permitting interrogators to use physically and psychologically stressful methods during questioning.
Abuses have not been restricted to Abu Ghraib. Numerous people held in the US Air Bases in Bagram and Kandahar in Afghanistan say they were subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in US custody, and the administration has failed to comply with the Geneva Conventions with regard to the Guantánamo detainees.
When I read his post, in which he was talking about upholding the values - American values - he held so dearly, I must admit I wondered at first if he was an American citizen.
And when he wrote, in the same post:
my immediate reaction was "Ah. He's a Swiss citizen."
I don't get the bit about the Swiss citizen
However, both, the U.S. and the U.K. ambassador were *called* into the Swiss Foreign Office the other day to receive, what can only be described as an allmighty bollocking, especially when one considers the normal "niceness" of the diplomatic language:
Switzerland is disgusted and enraged with what has been happening. The Geneva Convention (but then, did Bush not rather conveniently say right at the start of the "liberation" campaign that the U.S. would not recognise the G.C.?) particularly safeguards the rights of prisoners of war. Problems of the kind of Iraq are impossible to be solved alone by a super power, and with force, no matter how large that power. We cannot remain silent confronted with what is happening in Iraq. Switzerland (and just about everyone else too, apart from the totally clueless Bush adminstration, of course) has, since the beginning of the military operation, expressed fears about the destabilisation of the region, which sadly is now becoming apparent. Power must be handed over to the Iraqui people as soon as possible, within the agreed framework of the international community and the United Nations. (well, but we are on course there, aren't we, 1st June, no? Bush said so)
Here, for your convenience, is a quick Babel Fish translation, but then again, I am sure that Fox will have by picked up the story by now:
Bundesraetin me LINE Calmy Rey has the Ambassadors of the USA and Great Britain because of the prisoner abusing in Iraq in the State Department _ such tortures is quoted inakzeptabel, said it on weekend in interviews and gave their abhorrence over the occurrences expression.
She explained to the Ambassadors, the tortures are unacceptable, said Swiss Foreign Minister on Saturday in "Tagesschau" Swiss of the television. This behavior opposite prisoners hurts humanitarian international law. Switzerland reminded the two states of the fact that those protected Geneva conventions in particular prisoners of war and to be kept are. Switzerland as Depositarstaat that Geneva conventions has a special moral obligation to use itself for their observance.
With this step Switzerland wanted to express also their concern, said a spokeswoman of the Swiss federal Departementes for foreign affairs (EDA). Switzerland pointed itself contently over the promised clearing-up of all cases of prisoner abusing to Iraq. Such crimes might not remain unpunished. "Das are procedures, to which we are not silent koennen", said opposite to Calmy Rey "SonntagsBlick". Personally it with abhorrence and rage reacted to these abusing, explained the Foreign Minister. So one cannot treat humans.
To the situation in Iraq said Calmy Rey, problems of this kind could from a weltmacht - and it might have been still so strong - not by force and in the single-handed attempt be solved. Switzerland feared the destabilization of the whole region since beginning of the military operations in Iraq. "Ich it regrets much that our Anaylse obviously erweist" itself as correct;, the Foreign Minister in "SonntagsBlick" said; further. Power in Iraq must turn into as rapidly as possible to the Iraqis, in whom of the UN and the international community marked out framework is _ much blocked, because Iraq is an occupied country, said the Foreign Minister. Switzerland cannot go beyond humanitarian assistance, so for a long time this condition andaure. _ concern over Middle East policy _ to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict said opposite to Calmy Rey "SonntagsBlick" among other things, Switzerland is anxious over the announced one-sided retreat of Israel from the Gaza Strip, which is rejected by the Palestinians. The Geneva peace initiative supported by Switzerland is the only alternative. She suggests clear principles in the spirit of the dialogue and brings solutions, which were negotiated. It is deeply convinced that a process offers like those Geneva initiative the possibility of finding an generally acceptable solution for the region said the EDA boss.
In a way I am bit puzzled by the surprise expressed by so many, when the writing was quite clearly on the wall ever since Guantanomo Bay.
Rumsfeld during the hearing the other day: "And here we are, operating within the law, and then there are these people with their digital cameras taking these terrible pictures that we haven't even seen yet (or words to that extent)". Can't someone just shoot the guy?
Equating what this handful of sick bastards did with the entire US philosophy is just insulting.
Please enlighten me as to what the US philosophy is. Maybe you can split it up between the philosophy of the people and the one of the adminstration(s), unless they are one and the same, that is.
Any American who does not speak out about the abuse this thread covers is a shameful individual.
Period.
There is no excuse for this and those who carried out these criminal acts no matter how far up or down the chain of command should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Any American who does not speak out about the abuse this thread covers is a shameful individual.
Period.
There is no excuse for this and those who carried out these criminal acts no matter how far up or down the chain of command should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
I am not a proud american.
Fellowship
You have an enormous amount to be proud of and the reactions to these photographs I've read are a reminder of everything that's supposed to make your country so cool.
All of you people are ridiculous. This is a controversy that is almost 8 months old.
The military has investigated and is prosecuting those that have done these things. The military also made changes to the way things are done there.
I have brought up repeatedly the atrocities committed by SH, only to be dismissed and marginalized by many of the same people raising a fuss of this comparably minor issue.
Maybe I am just oversimplifying here, but I would rather face a broom stick up my ass over the threat of my whole family and all of their friend being wiped out, or getting dipped it flesh eating acid or any of the other sick torture methods that SH and Co. had in store which inevitably ended in death.
Noone in their right mind thought it was right to do those things to these prisoners, but the level of outrage over criminals and terrorists is a little off balance. I have yet to hear any of you cry over the innocent people that are being burned shredded and incinerated to death by the constant bombings in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, in the ME in general, yet alone ask for an apology or resignation of anyone in Hamaas, Hesbulla or AQ!
Selective outrage and fake compassion.
You all should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously.
If you were at my home I would kindly show you the door.
Comments
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Swiss.
Definitely.
Oh so you guys read a post thoroughly and strive to comprehend it and put it into the proper context when it agrees with you, but when it does not, screw it.
I did this little exorcize to demonstrate your own tactics and how transparent you are all being.
Live and learn.
Originally posted by NaplesX
I did this little exorcize to demonstrate your own tactics and how transparent you are all being.
Of course you did.
My, er, total bad.
is pretending to be a space rocket.
ppppppppssssssssssss cccccccccchhhhhhhhh CHCHCHCHCHCHCHCHCHCHCCHCHCHCHCHCHCCH!!!!!!!
lift off!!!!
are playing 'Twister'.
Wheeee!
Originally posted by NaplesX
Oh so you guys read a post thoroughly and strive to comprehend it and put it into the proper context when it agrees with you, but when it does not, screw it.
I did this little exorcize to demonstrate your own tactics and how transparent you are all being.
Live and learn.
What now? Something about exorcising and transparency.... is there a ghost in your machine?
is having a nap after a hearty lunch -but he'd better get home before his wife and kids miss him!
There'll be trouble!
is having a goooood stretch before he turns in for the night.
Nightynight Ahmad.
Nightynight Bashir.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
These men
are playing 'Twister'.
Wheeee!
I don't know if you've seen Limbaugh's response, but he's actually not far from "oh, come on, they were just playing games".
Simple "hazing" in his book, nothing worse than what you would expect from a fraternity.
Which I guess would be an interesting point if fraternities were in the habit of driving around armed in black vans, snatching potential recruits off the streets without telling them what was up, confining them to a cell for a few months while forcing them to a wear a black hood, assuring them they would be beaten and killed if they didn't confess what they knew about rival fraternities, and occasionally dragging them out of their cells for a festive round of sexual humiliation and or physical abuse.
Rush must have gone to a really really harsh school.
Would you be in favor of the death penalty for the generals that were responsible for encouraging the torture? If not, why not?
Originally posted by segovius
It's the drugs.
Hmmm.....
You may be on to something there....
Maybe the extremes of Rush's world-view are entirely informed by bad drugs and withdrawal symptoms:
"Ladies and Gentlemen, isn't it time we called the liberal winged crocodile monsters for what they really are? Demons from the fifth dimension with mind control rays and really really long hideous claws? Hideous claws that seem to pop out at you from an otherwise perfectly pleasant plate of fried chicken, chicken which, could it speak, would certainly tell you horrible horrible things about yours truly's very own childhood, ladies and gentlemen, things that the winged crocodile monster media will never tell you because their mouths are like gaping holes, holes that carry you down, down, down......"
is fighting to uphold the core American values of decency, tolerance and justice.
And anyone who disagrees hates America. Hates George Bush, who is making America loved and respected throughout the world. Hates democracy itself, yes, and the right to a fair trial, and all of those other things that even fucking sandnigg, er, Arabs deserve.
Now, who wants to come and play Twister with me?
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Now, who wants to come and play Twister with me?
I'll be in London in a week.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Equating what this handful of sick bastards did with the entire US philosophy is just insulting.
Ops..Turns out it isn't just a handful of bastards... They had their orders from above. High above.
And they're doing some of the same stuff in Guantanamo...
(Washington post link, registration requried)
he Defense Department approved interrogation techniques for use at the Guantanamo Bay prison that permit reversing the normal sleep patterns of detainees and exposing them to heat, cold and "sensory assault," including loud music and bright lights, according to defense officials.
The classified list of about 20 techniques was approved at the highest levels of the Pentagon and the Justice Department, and represents the first publicly known documentation of an official policy permitting interrogators to use physically and psychologically stressful methods during questioning.
In other news,Prisoners were hidden from the Red Cross (the Guradian) and The british were involved in Abu Ghraib interogations. Also in this article: the Red Cross is suspecting that prisonars may have been moved from afghanistan to iraq.
Bremer said the abuse has done "enormous damage to the U.S. Army, but U.S. soldiers also rebuild schools and hospitals."
After all, what's a little torture among friends as long as you are rebuilding schools?
Bush finally seems to get a grip on the dimensions of the human rights violations:
In his weekly radio address, Bush called the abuse "a stain on our country's honor and reputation."
Better late than never, I guess.
And Amnesty Internationals is moving fast these days: Lynndie-England.com
Their statement makes for a chilling read, too:
Abuses have not been restricted to Abu Ghraib. Numerous people held in the US Air Bases in Bagram and Kandahar in Afghanistan say they were subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment in US custody, and the administration has failed to comply with the Geneva Conventions with regard to the Guantánamo detainees.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Um. Yeeees.
When I read his post, in which he was talking about upholding the values - American values - he held so dearly, I must admit I wondered at first if he was an American citizen.
And when he wrote, in the same post:
my immediate reaction was "Ah. He's a Swiss citizen."
I don't get the bit about the Swiss citizen
However, both, the U.S. and the U.K. ambassador were *called* into the Swiss Foreign Office the other day to receive, what can only be described as an allmighty bollocking, especially when one considers the normal "niceness" of the diplomatic language:
Switzerland is disgusted and enraged with what has been happening. The Geneva Convention (but then, did Bush not rather conveniently say right at the start of the "liberation" campaign that the U.S. would not recognise the G.C.?) particularly safeguards the rights of prisoners of war. Problems of the kind of Iraq are impossible to be solved alone by a super power, and with force, no matter how large that power. We cannot remain silent confronted with what is happening in Iraq. Switzerland (and just about everyone else too, apart from the totally clueless Bush adminstration, of course) has, since the beginning of the military operation, expressed fears about the destabilisation of the region, which sadly is now becoming apparent. Power must be handed over to the Iraqui people as soon as possible, within the agreed framework of the international community and the United Nations. (well, but we are on course there, aren't we, 1st June, no? Bush said so)
Here, for your convenience, is a quick Babel Fish translation, but then again, I am sure that Fox will have by picked up the story by now:
Bundesraetin me LINE Calmy Rey has the Ambassadors of the USA and Great Britain because of the prisoner abusing in Iraq in the State Department _ such tortures is quoted inakzeptabel, said it on weekend in interviews and gave their abhorrence over the occurrences expression.
She explained to the Ambassadors, the tortures are unacceptable, said Swiss Foreign Minister on Saturday in "Tagesschau" Swiss of the television. This behavior opposite prisoners hurts humanitarian international law. Switzerland reminded the two states of the fact that those protected Geneva conventions in particular prisoners of war and to be kept are. Switzerland as Depositarstaat that Geneva conventions has a special moral obligation to use itself for their observance.
With this step Switzerland wanted to express also their concern, said a spokeswoman of the Swiss federal Departementes for foreign affairs (EDA). Switzerland pointed itself contently over the promised clearing-up of all cases of prisoner abusing to Iraq. Such crimes might not remain unpunished. "Das are procedures, to which we are not silent koennen", said opposite to Calmy Rey "SonntagsBlick". Personally it with abhorrence and rage reacted to these abusing, explained the Foreign Minister. So one cannot treat humans.
To the situation in Iraq said Calmy Rey, problems of this kind could from a weltmacht - and it might have been still so strong - not by force and in the single-handed attempt be solved. Switzerland feared the destabilization of the whole region since beginning of the military operations in Iraq. "Ich it regrets much that our Anaylse obviously erweist" itself as correct;, the Foreign Minister in "SonntagsBlick" said; further. Power in Iraq must turn into as rapidly as possible to the Iraqis, in whom of the UN and the international community marked out framework is _ much blocked, because Iraq is an occupied country, said the Foreign Minister. Switzerland cannot go beyond humanitarian assistance, so for a long time this condition andaure. _ concern over Middle East policy _ to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict said opposite to Calmy Rey "SonntagsBlick" among other things, Switzerland is anxious over the announced one-sided retreat of Israel from the Gaza Strip, which is rejected by the Palestinians. The Geneva peace initiative supported by Switzerland is the only alternative. She suggests clear principles in the spirit of the dialogue and brings solutions, which were negotiated. It is deeply convinced that a process offers like those Geneva initiative the possibility of finding an generally acceptable solution for the region said the EDA boss.
http://www.swissinfo.org/sde/swissin...05&sid=4923050
In a way I am bit puzzled by the surprise expressed by so many, when the writing was quite clearly on the wall ever since Guantanomo Bay.
Rumsfeld during the hearing the other day: "And here we are, operating within the law, and then there are these people with their digital cameras taking these terrible pictures that we haven't even seen yet (or words to that extent)". Can't someone just shoot the guy?
- T. I.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Equating what this handful of sick bastards did with the entire US philosophy is just insulting.
Please enlighten me as to what the US philosophy is. Maybe you can split it up between the philosophy of the people and the one of the adminstration(s), unless they are one and the same, that is.
- T. I.
Originally posted by Smircle
And Amnesty Internationals is moving fast these days: Lynndie-England.com
They have always moved fast. It's just that certain governments have found it prudent to ignore them. But with a bit of luck, this may change now.
- T. I.
Period.
There is no excuse for this and those who carried out these criminal acts no matter how far up or down the chain of command should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
I am not a proud american.
Fellowship
Originally posted by Fellowship
Any American who does not speak out about the abuse this thread covers is a shameful individual.
Period.
There is no excuse for this and those who carried out these criminal acts no matter how far up or down the chain of command should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
I am not a proud american.
Fellowship
You have an enormous amount to be proud of and the reactions to these photographs I've read are a reminder of everything that's supposed to make your country so cool.
Originally posted by NaplesX
All of you people are ridiculous. This is a controversy that is almost 8 months old.
The military has investigated and is prosecuting those that have done these things. The military also made changes to the way things are done there.
I have brought up repeatedly the atrocities committed by SH, only to be dismissed and marginalized by many of the same people raising a fuss of this comparably minor issue.
Maybe I am just oversimplifying here, but I would rather face a broom stick up my ass over the threat of my whole family and all of their friend being wiped out, or getting dipped it flesh eating acid or any of the other sick torture methods that SH and Co. had in store which inevitably ended in death.
Noone in their right mind thought it was right to do those things to these prisoners, but the level of outrage over criminals and terrorists is a little off balance. I have yet to hear any of you cry over the innocent people that are being burned shredded and incinerated to death by the constant bombings in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, in the ME in general, yet alone ask for an apology or resignation of anyone in Hamaas, Hesbulla or AQ!
Selective outrage and fake compassion.
You all should be ashamed of yourself. Seriously.
If you were at my home I would kindly show you the door.
Fellowship