I've watched the video and it is gruesome, but I just can't believe all the whining and hysterics over the method of his murder/execution in the media (and on several BBSs that I read). He died fairly quick and painlessly compared to most of the people who have died in this war.
He had his throat cut and his head hacked off and died in a matter of seconds. Not a bad way to go when compared to being beaten to death, or a slow agonizing death form burns, or being shot and slowly dying in agony over a several hours/days, or having your legs blown off and painfully watching yourself bleed out -- we could go on and on about the terribly gruesome deaths of the thousands of other people who have died in this war. Hell -- most of the people in the world will suffer, at some point in time during their lives, greater and longer pain then he did at his murder/execution.
The upsetting thing is that the terrorist intentionally grabbed a non-combatant and cold bloodily killed him. I have a feeling that most people are more upset that they were waving his severed head around then the fact that they murdered the poor guy.
I've watched the video and it is gruesome, but I just can't believe all the whining and hysterics over the method of his murder/execution in the media (and on several BBSs that I read). He died fairly quick and painlessly compared to most of the people who have died in this war.
He had his throat cut and his head hacked off and died in a matter of seconds. Not a bad way to go when compared to being beaten to death, or a slow agonizing death form burns, or being shot and slowly dying in agony over a several hours/days, or having your legs blown off and painfully watching yourself bleed out -- we could go on and on about the terribly gruesome deaths of the thousands of other people who have died in this war. Hell -- most of the people in the world will suffer, at some point in time during their lives, greater and longer pain then he did at his murder/execution.
The upsetting thing is that the terrorist intentionally grabbed a non-combatant and cold bloodily killed him. I have a feeling that most people are more upset that they were waving his severed head around then the fact that they murdered the poor guy.
Even more upsetting is the fact that they did it and waved his head around chanting "G-d is great!". I hope people NOW realize what Bush stepped in with this war. And ANY death should be upsetting. None of this is necessary.
I almost cried this morning when I heard a snippet from Rush (fat bastard) Limbaugh who said, "I don't buy that this was retaliation for anything. You saw what happened to Daniel Perl, this is normal operating procedure for them." Scary thing is that i agree. Whether or not those photos came out, this would have happened.
To point out that it's likely that these men are not Al Qaeda, and that the US administration is trying to hide that fact is sympathising with terrorists? To say Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 911 -- nothing at all, whatsoever -- is sympathising with terrorists? To say that all prisoners deserve to have the Geneva convention upheld is sympathising with terrorists?
I have not seen the beheading part of the video yet, but I've heard they just say Allahu Akbar. I'm under the impression that when slitting the throat of animal, it's traditional to say Bismillah Allahu Akbar.
But then again, I'm just an Irish guy who only joined a middle eastern family a couple years ago, so don't listen to me on that.
Also, you have this reporter friend of his saying he absolutely was in US custody:
Quote:
U.S. officials say he was never in the custody of coalition forces. While in Iraqi police custody, they said, he was interviewed three times by FBI agents who were suspicious of his identity and warned that the country was too dangerous for unprotected Americans. He was offered a free flight home, but he declined, officials said.
But Hugo Infante, a Chilean reporter who got to know Berg in Baghdad, told Newsday that Berg recounted that Iraqi police had quickly handed him to U.S authorities in Mosul and that he had been held the entire time in a jail where U.S. soldiers were his guards.
After his unplanned for and unexpected death, the body was released from the US military to some 'independent contractors' (ie mercenaries), Russian in this case (possibly mafia/profiteer types who are undoubtedly plying their trade in Iraq), and they concocted the beheading video (ineptly), splicing bits of the original Abu Ghraib film with the the appalling actions that they perpetrated on the corpse.
... [snip] ...
I don't say this is what happened or even that I necessarily believe it, but it's as least as plausible as the official version which is now falling apart at the seams by the hour.
Obviously you haven't watched the video. It's very clear that Nick was alive when decapitated.
There is enough wild speculation already without more nonsense. You're doing a disservice to a valuable discussion with such uninformed conspiracy mongering.
Re the 'key scene', I spoke to a few people who have seen it and they expressed surprise it was not more shocking - ie what you would expect in terms of blood shooting everywhere.
As I say though, I haven't seen it and don't intend to so if you have and can testify that all is as you would expect then I will bow to your greater knowledge in that regard.
Re the other points, as one doesn't need to have seen the video to notice discrepancies in translation, gold rings, dead terrorists with complete legs etc, then those anomalies still stand.
I have no conspiracy agenda which is why I can happily point out anomalies if they exist. If they don't well, show me where they are wrong as I asked in the post to which you refer.
Just saying there is no anomaly doesn't make it so. A reasonable man must explain to his own satisfaction or accept the discrepancy. It is not reasonable to say there is no problem if there is - and it won't make it go away.
It is extremely sick and blood was everwhere.
I am going to verbally describe the video for those of you who did not see it.
I am working on it right now. i will post it if there are no objections.
The descriptions I sear in the media are seriously lacking as to the brutality of this killing.
It should be clear to anyone that the muslim so called fanatics are absolved of this crime and only the jews and the US are suspect in these type of things.
Dammit - just lost a bet with that we'd get to 300 posts without mentioning the word 'Jews'.
What the hell happened ? You never start posting 200+ threads in ????
I've been too busy lately. I wait until the thread is clearly in the "insane stupidity" area before I post. Anymore claims read from obscure websites that unequivocally show that no way the muslim so called fanatics did this and it can only be a cover up of US actions.
Irrational anti-americanism can twist anything around and blame it on the Jews and US. Every imagined seed of doubt bears fruit.
The Nick Berg Video: (DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE A WEAK STOMACH)
The video starts out with Nick saying his name where he is from who his parents are and mentioning his siblings. It cuts to five men who obviously shopped at the Muslim Terrorist's Gap at the Bagdad mall. They were all wearing the typical black terrorist garb with hood. The middle guy looked to be reading from a sheet of paper and you could hear his words in Arabic, whatever he was saying.
This goes on for what seemed like forever, but was more like 4 - 5 minutes seeming to reach monotony. At a point you hear screaming only to realize that the sound is about three seconds ahead of the video, when the middle guy pulls what looks to be a 12 or 14" bladed knife from his garb. The video scrambles a bit and then focuses on the men on top of Nick the screaming continues for what seems like forever, but once again, it was more like 20-30 seconds, maybe longer. The guy with the knife was clearly, for the lack of a better word, sawing off his head. I must mention that he seemed to be lying face down. So they must have started from the back of his neck.
The screaming abruptly stops, yet the hacking does not. They have a hard time for the next 20, 30 or more seconds getting his head completely detached, and it is clearly his face.
When they finally remove his head the knife bearer holds it up to the camera and they all clammer then the video focuses on the beheaded body with blood cover virtually all of the floor that could be seen.
Note: I only watched this video once. So timeframes may be off a bit, and I may have missed some things, but this is what I remember.
I've been too busy lately. I wait until the thread is clearly in the "insane stupidity" area before I post. Anymore claims read from obscure websites that unequivocally show that no way the muslim so called fanatics did this and it can only be a cover up of US actions.
Irrational anti-americanism can twist anything around and blame it on the Jews and US. Every imagined seed of doubt bears fruit.
Whatever. You know this thread and topic is reaching its end and your post (again, as usual) is another grasp for attention (and mockery).
I haven't seen the video...I've seen Pearl's death and though edited (also, I believe the choppers were merciful enough to shoot him dead before beheading him) it was sickening and I don't need to watch another...
As far as all these theories...watch the goddamn video and then consider the actions or evidence within it. Don't rely on second-parties or obscure web sites...If you have an need to know then watch it. You are like theorizing what happened to Kennedy without watching the Zapruder film...though that may not shed much either...
Carry on...this thread is dead anyway...thanks scott.
I watched the video twice, it was the realplayer one, so the image was crap, but I did notice that there was alot less blood than I thought there should be, Of course, there is a puddle on the floor, but they held his head up for about 30 seconds, and I didn't see 1 drip. I don't know if that means anything, I have only ever seen 1 person decapitated. I also thought it was impossible to scream if your throat gets slashed, I believe they started at the front/side, definately not the back, but the guy did scream for a while.
I think segovius' theory a little bit too ott. Why would the US give him to the russian mob if he died in the US custody, you'd have to assume that the video was completely planned in advance by the US from the top to the bottom for that explanation? While I don't doubt there is something iffy, I cant believe it went that far.
I also dont know/understand the 'Abu Ghraib welcome' thing, if anyone would care to explain.
Comments
He had his throat cut and his head hacked off and died in a matter of seconds. Not a bad way to go when compared to being beaten to death, or a slow agonizing death form burns, or being shot and slowly dying in agony over a several hours/days, or having your legs blown off and painfully watching yourself bleed out -- we could go on and on about the terribly gruesome deaths of the thousands of other people who have died in this war. Hell -- most of the people in the world will suffer, at some point in time during their lives, greater and longer pain then he did at his murder/execution.
The upsetting thing is that the terrorist intentionally grabbed a non-combatant and cold bloodily killed him. I have a feeling that most people are more upset that they were waving his severed head around then the fact that they murdered the poor guy.
Originally posted by Res
I've watched the video and it is gruesome, but I just can't believe all the whining and hysterics over the method of his murder/execution in the media (and on several BBSs that I read). He died fairly quick and painlessly compared to most of the people who have died in this war.
He had his throat cut and his head hacked off and died in a matter of seconds. Not a bad way to go when compared to being beaten to death, or a slow agonizing death form burns, or being shot and slowly dying in agony over a several hours/days, or having your legs blown off and painfully watching yourself bleed out -- we could go on and on about the terribly gruesome deaths of the thousands of other people who have died in this war. Hell -- most of the people in the world will suffer, at some point in time during their lives, greater and longer pain then he did at his murder/execution.
The upsetting thing is that the terrorist intentionally grabbed a non-combatant and cold bloodily killed him. I have a feeling that most people are more upset that they were waving his severed head around then the fact that they murdered the poor guy.
Even more upsetting is the fact that they did it and waved his head around chanting "G-d is great!". I hope people NOW realize what Bush stepped in with this war. And ANY death should be upsetting. None of this is necessary.
I almost cried this morning when I heard a snippet from Rush (fat bastard) Limbaugh who said, "I don't buy that this was retaliation for anything. You saw what happened to Daniel Perl, this is normal operating procedure for them." Scary thing is that i agree. Whether or not those photos came out, this would have happened.
Originally posted by tonton
To point out that it's likely that these men are not Al Qaeda, and that the US administration is trying to hide that fact is sympathising with terrorists? To say Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 911 -- nothing at all, whatsoever -- is sympathising with terrorists? To say that all prisoners deserve to have the Geneva convention upheld is sympathising with terrorists?
thank you for pointing out that very fact.
I have not seen the beheading part of the video yet, but I've heard they just say Allahu Akbar. I'm under the impression that when slitting the throat of animal, it's traditional to say Bismillah Allahu Akbar.
But then again, I'm just an Irish guy who only joined a middle eastern family a couple years ago, so don't listen to me on that.
U.S. officials say he was never in the custody of coalition forces. While in Iraqi police custody, they said, he was interviewed three times by FBI agents who were suspicious of his identity and warned that the country was too dangerous for unprotected Americans. He was offered a free flight home, but he declined, officials said.
But Hugo Infante, a Chilean reporter who got to know Berg in Baghdad, told Newsday that Berg recounted that Iraqi police had quickly handed him to U.S authorities in Mosul and that he had been held the entire time in a jail where U.S. soldiers were his guards.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...orld-headlines
BTW seeing the word beheaded again and again is really starting to get to me.
Originally posted by giant
Also, you have this reporter friend of his saying he absolutely was in US custody:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...orld-headlines
BTW seeing the word beheaded again and again is really starting to get to me.
why would you watch it over and over
Originally posted by burningwheel
why would you watch it over and over
Originally posted by giant
BTW seeing the word beheaded again and again is really starting to get to me.
Hell, I haven't even seen the actual beheading yet.
Originally posted by segovius
A theory:
... [snip] ...
After his unplanned for and unexpected death, the body was released from the US military to some 'independent contractors' (ie mercenaries), Russian in this case (possibly mafia/profiteer types who are undoubtedly plying their trade in Iraq), and they concocted the beheading video (ineptly), splicing bits of the original Abu Ghraib film with the the appalling actions that they perpetrated on the corpse.
... [snip] ...
I don't say this is what happened or even that I necessarily believe it, but it's as least as plausible as the official version which is now falling apart at the seams by the hour.
Obviously you haven't watched the video. It's very clear that Nick was alive when decapitated.
There is enough wild speculation already without more nonsense. You're doing a disservice to a valuable discussion with such uninformed conspiracy mongering.
Originally posted by segovius
Well, I haven't watched the video.
Re the 'key scene', I spoke to a few people who have seen it and they expressed surprise it was not more shocking - ie what you would expect in terms of blood shooting everywhere.
As I say though, I haven't seen it and don't intend to so if you have and can testify that all is as you would expect then I will bow to your greater knowledge in that regard.
Re the other points, as one doesn't need to have seen the video to notice discrepancies in translation, gold rings, dead terrorists with complete legs etc, then those anomalies still stand.
I have no conspiracy agenda which is why I can happily point out anomalies if they exist. If they don't well, show me where they are wrong as I asked in the post to which you refer.
Just saying there is no anomaly doesn't make it so. A reasonable man must explain to his own satisfaction or accept the discrepancy. It is not reasonable to say there is no problem if there is - and it won't make it go away.
It is extremely sick and blood was everwhere.
I am going to verbally describe the video for those of you who did not see it.
I am working on it right now. i will post it if there are no objections.
The descriptions I sear in the media are seriously lacking as to the brutality of this killing.
Originally posted by NaplesX
I am going to verbally describe the video for those of you who did not see it.
Oh, that would would be great, naples. I haven't been able to find any articles on it anywhere.
i will post it if there are no objections.
OK. I object.
hey, you gave us the option.
Originally posted by segovius
Dammit - just lost a bet with that we'd get to 300 posts without mentioning the word 'Jews'.
What the hell happened ? You never start posting 200+ threads in ????
I've been too busy lately. I wait until the thread is clearly in the "insane stupidity" area before I post. Anymore claims read from obscure websites that unequivocally show that no way the muslim so called fanatics did this and it can only be a cover up of US actions.
Irrational anti-americanism can twist anything around and blame it on the Jews and US. Every imagined seed of doubt bears fruit.
The video starts out with Nick saying his name where he is from who his parents are and mentioning his siblings. It cuts to five men who obviously shopped at the Muslim Terrorist's Gap at the Bagdad mall. They were all wearing the typical black terrorist garb with hood. The middle guy looked to be reading from a sheet of paper and you could hear his words in Arabic, whatever he was saying.
This goes on for what seemed like forever, but was more like 4 - 5 minutes seeming to reach monotony. At a point you hear screaming only to realize that the sound is about three seconds ahead of the video, when the middle guy pulls what looks to be a 12 or 14" bladed knife from his garb. The video scrambles a bit and then focuses on the men on top of Nick the screaming continues for what seems like forever, but once again, it was more like 20-30 seconds, maybe longer. The guy with the knife was clearly, for the lack of a better word, sawing off his head. I must mention that he seemed to be lying face down. So they must have started from the back of his neck.
The screaming abruptly stops, yet the hacking does not. They have a hard time for the next 20, 30 or more seconds getting his head completely detached, and it is clearly his face.
When they finally remove his head the knife bearer holds it up to the camera and they all clammer then the video focuses on the beheaded body with blood cover virtually all of the floor that could be seen.
Note: I only watched this video once. So timeframes may be off a bit, and I may have missed some things, but this is what I remember.
they run the us. they run israel of all places. the control the un. and they are money gubing bankers with large noses.
Originally posted by Scott
Irrational anti-americanism can twist anything around and blame it on the Jews and US.
Why are you so hung up on Jews, Scott?
Originally posted by Scott
I've been too busy lately. I wait until the thread is clearly in the "insane stupidity" area before I post. Anymore claims read from obscure websites that unequivocally show that no way the muslim so called fanatics did this and it can only be a cover up of US actions.
Irrational anti-americanism can twist anything around and blame it on the Jews and US. Every imagined seed of doubt bears fruit.
Whatever. You know this thread and topic is reaching its end and your post (again, as usual) is another grasp for attention (and mockery).
I haven't seen the video...I've seen Pearl's death and though edited (also, I believe the choppers were merciful enough to shoot him dead before beheading him) it was sickening and I don't need to watch another...
As far as all these theories...watch the goddamn video and then consider the actions or evidence within it. Don't rely on second-parties or obscure web sites...If you have an need to know then watch it. You are like theorizing what happened to Kennedy without watching the Zapruder film...though that may not shed much either...
Carry on...this thread is dead anyway...thanks scott.
I think segovius' theory a little bit too ott. Why would the US give him to the russian mob if he died in the US custody, you'd have to assume that the video was completely planned in advance by the US from the top to the bottom for that explanation? While I don't doubt there is something iffy, I cant believe it went that far.
I also dont know/understand the 'Abu Ghraib welcome' thing, if anyone would care to explain.