I'm thinking of getting it. is anyone else? has anyone seen it in action? I'm also curious if anyone knows if you can create your own custom keyframes or is it all templates?
I'm thinking of getting it. is anyone else? has anyone seen it in action? I'm also curious if anyone knows if you can create your own custom keyframes or is it all templates?
Well that wasn't at all related to the title. I'll be ordering the moment it's released for order assuming money/G5 is lying around.
Motion is shipping June 30th. I'm going to see a video seminar hosted by Apple on May 25th so I should be able to see Motion working.
I'm sure it's going to be impressive. I think I might get it but I'll have to see what kind of performance you can get on a G4 since I'm probably looking at a budget that will only let me get a iMac at the most.
I'm thinking of getting it. is anyone else? has anyone seen it in action? I'm also curious if anyone knows if you can create your own custom keyframes or is it all templates?
I will be ordering it as soon as it is available. I took a look at it at NAB, and then again at a special even I was invited to. It will rock IMHO. Yes, you will be able to set up custom keyframes. If you have a Wacom tablet you can do some very cool things.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Motion is shipping June 30th. I'm going to see a video seminar hosted by Apple on May 25th so I should be able to see Motion working.
I'm sure it's going to be impressive. I think I might get it but I'll have to see what kind of performance you can get on a G4 since I'm probably looking at a budget that will only let me get a iMac at the most.
If you can go to one of these events I would definitely go to get a look at Motion. Here is a link to the Apple seminars.
Motion will take up lost of CPU, but the more important part is the need for a 128Mb graphics card. Because Motion is based on OpenGL and realtime rendering techniques you will need to have a tricked out graphics card to make it really work well. If your G4 is a 800MHz or better with AGP, and you don't all ready have a 128MB graphics card, I would get one. I'm not sure how well if will handel on an iMac.
I'm definitely considering it. It's cheap as hell and I've found myself needing less and less of the features in Combustion. I've been pretty vocal about wanting to see FCP expand a bit, and here we have it.
1. Why spend $300 on Motion if you already have combustion or AE. (Combustion is only $300 for "educational" version and I doubt Motion can beat it.)
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
well it hasnt been released yet. and it's not supposed to be an AE killer anyways, at least for now. you keep to your usual programs and we'll experiment for you.
1. Why spend $300 on Motion if you already have combustion or AE. (Combustion is only $300 for "educational" version and I doubt Motion can beat it.)
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
1. Because neither Combustion nor AE offer realtime creation of motion graphics. For doing some tasks motion is simply going to be unequaled.
2. This is not LiveType Motion was created by the team that left Discreet. LiveType was created by the programmers from India prior to Apples acquisition.
Well you know I've been hangin out at places like Creative Cow for a while now and I haven't seen a product that has excited the guy like Motion in a long time. They are ALL extremely excited about Motion. Keep in mind now ..no one is saying Motion is a replacement for AE or Combustion but it's a nice addition to the Toolbox.
If you haven't seen what Motion can do over AE or Combustion then you haven't seen the program. Neither AE or Combustion can create realtime motion graphics of 720P Video. I'll lay down $100 right now in a bet that you couldn't do that in either program with the fastest PC. Motion is a new beast. If you use Combustion or AE you're going to want to keep those products for the many features but you'll probably want Motion for doing quick projects that would be more cumbersome in AE or Combustion.
The integration with Final Cut Pro is sweet. Simply grab the video you want to add motion graphics to. Edit in motion and then save. Your new videa is added back to the timeline in sync and ready to go. The real question is Motion is priced at a paltry $299 which is like FCE and Logic Express. Could Motion be an express version with a larger more full featured Motion Pro version coming in the future. There are still features like motion tracking and 3D spaces, wire removal etc that would need to be added if it was to compete with AE or Combustion.
Well I see your point on the delivery of "real time" motion graphics. But, from Apple's description:
Quote:
In the past, only dedicated hardware systems could achieve real-time interactivity. Motion significantly reduces the barrier to real-time by drawing on the power of the Power Mac G5 running Mac OS X Panther. Motion lets you preview filters, effects and animation in real-time, so you work more intuitively and interactively toward an optimal creative result.
A large part of the ability to have "real time previews" is having a superfast computer with a professional video card. AND you will still have to render in order to watch your shot at full resolution.
This claim is similar to when Apple first started professing that you could use FCP to deliver "Online" video. At that time, you could create an uncompressed output if your computer was fast enough and you added 3rd party SDI hardware. BUT, you couldn't really online if you couldn't acheive a frame accurate output! By the time FCP got to version 3, Apple's claims started to make more sense, but FCP was always hardware dependent and so is Motion.
All I am saying, is that I take all of Apple's pro video software performance claims with a HUGE grain of salt. For $300, it is probably worth the price for a lot of people, but I can't see running out the door to buy the first version of Motion.
Well I'll know more about Motion when I go to the Seminar here in Washington next Tue. I do not believe you have to render anything. I'll be sure to ask. With FCP HD you no longer have to render LiveType before importing back into the timeline. Motion should be the same.
The speed of Motion comes more from the processing in the GPU of OpenGL. The "recommended" computer is hefty. Dual 2Ghz with a fast GPU. We'll see by summer just how Motion stacks up. I'm inclined to agree with you about software performance claims. Now everything has "Realtime" emblazoned on the box but we don't know what that means. Realtime previews only or is everything realtime?? If you have any questions let me know and I'll ask the Apple presenter.
Right now the questions that haven't been answered are what AE plugins work. Will there be a 10bit version amongst other small questions. I'm hoping that the edu price is $150.
1. Why spend $300 on Motion if you already have combustion or AE. (Combustion is only $300 for "educational" version and I doubt Motion can beat it.)
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
You make some good points.
My problems with combustion are pretty basic. I find working in FCP to be much more enjoyable, to the point where I somewhat dread going into combustion. Maybe I'm picky, but I've been looking forward to being able to do this kind of work with a FCP interface. Combustion is also really slow. I barely feel like it gained any speed last time I upgraded my machine.
But you are right, and maybe I should still use AE. Who knows, right? It's all just something I do on the side anyway.
My problems with combustion are pretty basic. I find working in FCP to be much more enjoyable, to the point where I somewhat dread going into combustion. Maybe I'm picky, but I've been looking forward to being able to do this kind of work with a FCP interface. Combustion is also really slow. I barely feel like it gained any speed last time I upgraded my machine.
But you are right, and maybe I should still use AE. Who knows, right? It's all just something I do on the side anyway.
Combustion is definitly a powerful program, but since it is derived from Discreets Pro line (smoke fire flame etc.), the interface was not tuned to the average user. I agree it is a little slow, but it works for me.
Motion seems like the right tool for you. If it increases your productivity and integrates with FCP, which you already enjoy, it should be great.
I think that a lot of people will enjoy this app, and if it can do what it says for that price, then it is a great value.
Realtime previews only or is everything realtime?? If you have any questions let me know and I'll ask the Apple presenter.
Right now the questions that haven't been answered are what AE plugins work. Will there be a 10bit version amongst other small questions. I'm hoping that the edu price is $150.
My biggest question is about the "real time" previews. I know for a fact that you will have to render before you go to tape, that's why I wonder how much "real time" quality you are getting. It may look great on the computer monitor, but what about on your Broadcast monitor.
If I am working on a G5 FCP system tied to a Aja I/O or a Kona card, am I getting real time motion output to my Broadcast monitor or just a low res preview? Is it showing 29.97 (or 24) FPS or skipping frames?
Ultimately, until it supports higher 10 bit color space, it isn't really HD in my view. DVCPRO 50 is seems as high as it goes for output right now.
Definitly write back with your impressions after the demo. Thanks.
the interface was not tuned to the average user. I agree it is a little slow, but it works for me.
Motion seems like the right tool for you. If it increases your productivity and integrates with FCP, which you already enjoy, it should be great.
Well, I did first work on avid and discreet products in the 90s, and was very partial to discreet before the FCP era and, especially, powerbook video editing.
But again you are right, and for anyone that isn't locked in the latest and greatest software cycle, it will probably be wonderful.
Of course, I'm not expecting motion to be great on a powerbook for another year, so I guess it still is stuck in the cycle. \
There are a few points that I want to bring up. Some have been mentioned and some need some more clarification.
First off, Motion was developed by developers that worked on shake, rayz, and the first version of combustion. It is a sick amount of talent.
Motion is not meant to compete directly with AFX and combustion, although it can handle certain that were done in those packages.
I have seen Motion in action, and it is a very fast and efficient way to work. Doing what it does, you obviously need a fast computer. Motion is here to replace dedicated hardware solutions. Just as FCP was pressuring Avid, which ran on dedicated hardware, with software based editing, Motion is the same thing for dedicated hardware based motion graphics.
I am going to the Apple event tomorrow and I will have some more input after that.
I have seen Motion in action, and it is a very fast and efficient way to work. Doing what it does, you obviously need a fast computer. Motion is here to replace dedicated hardware solutions. Just as FCP was pressuring Avid, which ran on dedicated hardware, with software based editing, Motion is the same thing for dedicated hardware based motion graphics.
I am going to the Apple event tomorrow and I will have some more input after that.
Where did you see it? Did you use it or watch a demo?
If it has real time frame accurate previews over SDI to a Broadcast monitor it could be a real breakthrough in performance. But I bet you get what you pay for with this one.
Comments
Originally posted by kraig911
I'm thinking of getting it. is anyone else? has anyone seen it in action? I'm also curious if anyone knows if you can create your own custom keyframes or is it all templates?
Well that wasn't at all related to the title. I'll be ordering the moment it's released for order assuming money/G5 is lying around.
I'm sure it's going to be impressive. I think I might get it but I'll have to see what kind of performance you can get on a G4 since I'm probably looking at a budget that will only let me get a iMac at the most.
Originally posted by kraig911
I'm thinking of getting it. is anyone else? has anyone seen it in action? I'm also curious if anyone knows if you can create your own custom keyframes or is it all templates?
I will be ordering it as soon as it is available. I took a look at it at NAB, and then again at a special even I was invited to. It will rock IMHO. Yes, you will be able to set up custom keyframes. If you have a Wacom tablet you can do some very cool things.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Motion is shipping June 30th. I'm going to see a video seminar hosted by Apple on May 25th so I should be able to see Motion working.
I'm sure it's going to be impressive. I think I might get it but I'll have to see what kind of performance you can get on a G4 since I'm probably looking at a budget that will only let me get a iMac at the most.
If you can go to one of these events I would definitely go to get a look at Motion. Here is a link to the Apple seminars.
Apple Moving Post-Production Forward Seminar
Motion will take up lost of CPU, but the more important part is the need for a 128Mb graphics card. Because Motion is based on OpenGL and realtime rendering techniques you will need to have a tricked out graphics card to make it really work well. If your G4 is a 800MHz or better with AGP, and you don't all ready have a 128MB graphics card, I would get one. I'm not sure how well if will handel on an iMac.
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
Originally posted by buckeye
I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
well it hasnt been released yet. and it's not supposed to be an AE killer anyways, at least for now. you keep to your usual programs and we'll experiment for you.
Originally posted by buckeye
1. Why spend $300 on Motion if you already have combustion or AE. (Combustion is only $300 for "educational" version and I doubt Motion can beat it.)
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
1. Because neither Combustion nor AE offer realtime creation of motion graphics. For doing some tasks motion is simply going to be unequaled.
2. This is not LiveType Motion was created by the team that left Discreet. LiveType was created by the programmers from India prior to Apples acquisition.
Well you know I've been hangin out at places like Creative Cow for a while now and I haven't seen a product that has excited the guy like Motion in a long time. They are ALL extremely excited about Motion. Keep in mind now ..no one is saying Motion is a replacement for AE or Combustion but it's a nice addition to the Toolbox.
If you haven't seen what Motion can do over AE or Combustion then you haven't seen the program. Neither AE or Combustion can create realtime motion graphics of 720P Video. I'll lay down $100 right now in a bet that you couldn't do that in either program with the fastest PC. Motion is a new beast. If you use Combustion or AE you're going to want to keep those products for the many features but you'll probably want Motion for doing quick projects that would be more cumbersome in AE or Combustion.
The integration with Final Cut Pro is sweet. Simply grab the video you want to add motion graphics to. Edit in motion and then save. Your new videa is added back to the timeline in sync and ready to go. The real question is Motion is priced at a paltry $299 which is like FCE and Logic Express. Could Motion be an express version with a larger more full featured Motion Pro version coming in the future. There are still features like motion tracking and 3D spaces, wire removal etc that would need to be added if it was to compete with AE or Combustion.
In the past, only dedicated hardware systems could achieve real-time interactivity. Motion significantly reduces the barrier to real-time by drawing on the power of the Power Mac G5 running Mac OS X Panther. Motion lets you preview filters, effects and animation in real-time, so you work more intuitively and interactively toward an optimal creative result.
A large part of the ability to have "real time previews" is having a superfast computer with a professional video card. AND you will still have to render in order to watch your shot at full resolution.
This claim is similar to when Apple first started professing that you could use FCP to deliver "Online" video. At that time, you could create an uncompressed output if your computer was fast enough and you added 3rd party SDI hardware. BUT, you couldn't really online if you couldn't acheive a frame accurate output! By the time FCP got to version 3, Apple's claims started to make more sense, but FCP was always hardware dependent and so is Motion.
All I am saying, is that I take all of Apple's pro video software performance claims with a HUGE grain of salt. For $300, it is probably worth the price for a lot of people, but I can't see running out the door to buy the first version of Motion.
The speed of Motion comes more from the processing in the GPU of OpenGL. The "recommended" computer is hefty. Dual 2Ghz with a fast GPU. We'll see by summer just how Motion stacks up. I'm inclined to agree with you about software performance claims. Now everything has "Realtime" emblazoned on the box but we don't know what that means. Realtime previews only or is everything realtime?? If you have any questions let me know and I'll ask the Apple presenter.
Right now the questions that haven't been answered are what AE plugins work. Will there be a 10bit version amongst other small questions. I'm hoping that the edu price is $150.
Originally posted by buckeye
1. Why spend $300 on Motion if you already have combustion or AE. (Combustion is only $300 for "educational" version and I doubt Motion can beat it.)
2. If this was designed anything like Livetype, it will be a mess in it's first version. And, as mentioned above, it will hog your cpu and graphics card. I run AE 5.5 on a DP533Mhz all the time and it is pretty smooth.
I won't be surprised if it is a great value after the initial bugs are worked out, but I also don't see anything it can do that AE or Combustion don't already do better.
You make some good points.
My problems with combustion are pretty basic. I find working in FCP to be much more enjoyable, to the point where I somewhat dread going into combustion. Maybe I'm picky, but I've been looking forward to being able to do this kind of work with a FCP interface. Combustion is also really slow. I barely feel like it gained any speed last time I upgraded my machine.
But you are right, and maybe I should still use AE. Who knows, right? It's all just something I do on the side anyway.
Originally posted by giant
You make some good points.
My problems with combustion are pretty basic. I find working in FCP to be much more enjoyable, to the point where I somewhat dread going into combustion. Maybe I'm picky, but I've been looking forward to being able to do this kind of work with a FCP interface. Combustion is also really slow. I barely feel like it gained any speed last time I upgraded my machine.
But you are right, and maybe I should still use AE. Who knows, right? It's all just something I do on the side anyway.
Combustion is definitly a powerful program, but since it is derived from Discreets Pro line (smoke fire flame etc.), the interface was not tuned to the average user. I agree it is a little slow, but it works for me.
Motion seems like the right tool for you. If it increases your productivity and integrates with FCP, which you already enjoy, it should be great.
I think that a lot of people will enjoy this app, and if it can do what it says for that price, then it is a great value.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Realtime previews only or is everything realtime?? If you have any questions let me know and I'll ask the Apple presenter.
Right now the questions that haven't been answered are what AE plugins work. Will there be a 10bit version amongst other small questions. I'm hoping that the edu price is $150.
My biggest question is about the "real time" previews. I know for a fact that you will have to render before you go to tape, that's why I wonder how much "real time" quality you are getting. It may look great on the computer monitor, but what about on your Broadcast monitor.
If I am working on a G5 FCP system tied to a Aja I/O or a Kona card, am I getting real time motion output to my Broadcast monitor or just a low res preview? Is it showing 29.97 (or 24) FPS or skipping frames?
Ultimately, until it supports higher 10 bit color space, it isn't really HD in my view. DVCPRO 50 is seems as high as it goes for output right now.
Definitly write back with your impressions after the demo. Thanks.
Originally posted by buckeye
the interface was not tuned to the average user. I agree it is a little slow, but it works for me.
Motion seems like the right tool for you. If it increases your productivity and integrates with FCP, which you already enjoy, it should be great.
Well, I did first work on avid and discreet products in the 90s, and was very partial to discreet before the FCP era and, especially, powerbook video editing.
But again you are right, and for anyone that isn't locked in the latest and greatest software cycle, it will probably be wonderful.
Of course, I'm not expecting motion to be great on a powerbook for another year, so I guess it still is stuck in the cycle.
Originally posted by giant
Of course, I'm not expecting motion to be great on a powerbook for another year, so I guess it still is stuck in the cycle.
Apple claims that it will work, but who knows. I use AE 5.5 on my Powerbook all the time and it works pretty well.
First off, Motion was developed by developers that worked on shake, rayz, and the first version of combustion. It is a sick amount of talent.
Motion is not meant to compete directly with AFX and combustion, although it can handle certain that were done in those packages.
I have seen Motion in action, and it is a very fast and efficient way to work. Doing what it does, you obviously need a fast computer. Motion is here to replace dedicated hardware solutions. Just as FCP was pressuring Avid, which ran on dedicated hardware, with software based editing, Motion is the same thing for dedicated hardware based motion graphics.
I am going to the Apple event tomorrow and I will have some more input after that.
Originally posted by foad
I have seen Motion in action, and it is a very fast and efficient way to work. Doing what it does, you obviously need a fast computer. Motion is here to replace dedicated hardware solutions. Just as FCP was pressuring Avid, which ran on dedicated hardware, with software based editing, Motion is the same thing for dedicated hardware based motion graphics.
I am going to the Apple event tomorrow and I will have some more input after that.
Where did you see it? Did you use it or watch a demo?
If it has real time frame accurate previews over SDI to a Broadcast monitor it could be a real breakthrough in performance. But I bet you get what you pay for with this one.
Videos are now up!
Originally posted by buckeye
HMurchison - did you go to the seminar?
Not until next tuesday. I hope to see much more.
I would not worry about Motion too much.