My big, #1, they'd-better-at-least-talk-about-it expectation: QuickTime 7. Redone. Thread-safe. Streamlined. Finally, at long last up to par with the rest of OS X's technologies in terms of quality of implementation.
Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...
Since that's not future hardware: I'm expecting two hardware announcements: FireWire over 802.15.3 (aka, Wireless FireWire, with 480Mbps bandwidth - and yeah, there's some software involved, too), and discussion of the POWER5-lite, whatever they decide to call it.
Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...
I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only, when displaying audio and video content. And don't get me started on RealPlayer, RealOne or whatever they call it these days...
People, there will be no consumer devices, iPod or otherwise at WWDC. It's a developer conference.
It's true it's a developer conference, but come on people, this is Marketing 101 here. It's a BIG press event that will get a lot of coverage. Apple & teh Steve will intro whatever they have ready - consumer or pro be damned.
hmm... well, you'll be one of the early praisers of display support, then bitchers about battery life. seriously, i'm tired of this.
IF battery life was NOT an issue, bluetooth would be nice to share your library with fellow walkers. That's it. When I'm walking to class I don't give a damn what pictures are stored on my iPod. I can wait til a projector or TV is around, as seems more realistic.
I can see your idea now:
"Hey check out this pic of--" *gets run over by bus*
You might want to read back a bit.
hmurchison was talking about an in-dash car device to marry with the iPod. Battery life isn't an issue unless you're worried about your car's battery? Bluetooth, etc. would all be great things to see in a DIN car dash device.
I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only
Me too, but I don't see much hope. The MPEG-4 consortium shot themselves in the foot with their restrictive licensing policies.
MPEG-4 would rule right now if it were not for those #^(*&@#^&(&*% retards at the licencing group! Sigh.. MWP becomes the default just by being ubiquitous and being backed by MS.. Oh well.
I really have nothing to bring to the table except my opinion......but, if Apple does not announce 3.0 Gig G5s, like Jobs promised last year, the shit should (and likely will) hit the fan.
Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.
People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.
The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.
Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.
Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.
Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.
IMO, (on the opic of G5s) it was foolish of Steve to make such claims in the first place. Heh, it's not as though he has any influence over fab yields. Everyone has been running into increasing problems as the processes get smaller and smaller. He just set himself up for a fall. Just chalk it up as learning experience to keep his big mouth shut and he'll just have to take his licks at the WWDC.
Croquer dans la is reporting a Dual PPC 975 @ 3GHz to be annnounced at WWDC. Should include PCI-Express, FSB of 1.5GHz and a few other goodies.
Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.
Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.
First of all, I agree that jobs shouldn't make a claim that is 12 months away!! IBM fab plants could have fallen into the ocean... who the hell knows what happens in 12 months.
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
Croquer dans la is reporting a Dual PPC 975 @ 3GHz to be annnounced at WWDC. Should include PCI-Express, FSB of 1.5GHz and a few other goodies.
Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.
Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.
Thanks
Dave
Clock rate doesn't matter as much as dual memory controllers. From what I understand the power5 has an on-chip mem controller... IE dual mem controllers. I think this is the main bottleneck in the current g5s.... and why I didn't buy one.
I do think apple will announce 3gs at wwdc... but I think they will ship in september... but only a "couple" will ship in that time... just so he'll be right. Then the rest will ship in oct/nov just like last year.
What's the big deal really? SO what if the new computers are 2.6 gig or 3? They are really fast and getting faster. In the long run it really doesn't matter. In fact, I have been prductively using a computer that has half the clock speed of the difference in what you would call failure.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dr.Bimane
I really have nothing to bring to the table except my opinion......but, if Apple does not announce 3.0 Gig G5s, like Jobs promised last year, the shit should (and likely will) hit the fan.
Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.
People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.
The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.
Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.
Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.
Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.
What's the big deal really? SO what if the new computers are 2.6 gig or 3?
You're right, of course. The only 'but' is that Mr. Jobs has promised the world a 3GHz CPU this summer. It can hurt his and Apple's reputation badly. Note, however, that IBM didn't promise anything that cool.
Quote:
In the long run it really doesn't matter. In fact, I have been prductively using a computer that has half the clock speed of the difference in what you would call failure.
If it doesn't matter to you, that does not mean it doesn't matter at all (excellent phrasing, by the way ). First, there are people and companies who need thousands times faster computers for their everyday needs. Second, there is marketing which always likes higher numbers, whatever they mean.
Again, this is a developer's conference, so they need to show something more than just Tiger. xCode is probably one of the biggest innovations when it comes to the overall workflow of the development process. I hope that they include other languages other that C/C++/Obj.C/Java. Other languages like Python, PHP, Perl, etc. could use with an awesome IDE like xCode (PHP and Perl may be a little difficult, being that they are scripting languages). I think they will improve upon the stability, improve upon the feature set, and improve upon the speed of the application. xCode is not something that should be over-looked, as it could very well revolutionize the whole developmental process.
Yeah, it might start to catch up with .NET.
The biggest difficulty with scripting languages is the debugger support, which is a big part of the reason for an IDE.
Quote:
975?
Now I think that this is worth mentioning. The 975 (or whatever they hell they want to call it) is supposed to be based off from the Power5 chipset. This is a huge advance in quite a short period of time. As such, I think they may announce what it is, and where it will go. I honestly think we will not see a new machine with it at the WWDC, but I think we will see its immergance during MWSF 2005.
I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.
I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.
Well I think whatever the power5 is, will arrive at wwdc... since ibm is shipping them mid june. From what I've read about the new blades, they bring to the table of smt, 1mb l2 cache, and on-board mem controller... but I think they have more transistors (going out of memory on this one).
Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?
Are you saying the 975 is a 130nm chip? If so what else do you know?
YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.
IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?
Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(
thanks
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?
Are you saying the 975 is a 130nm chip? If so what else do you know?
YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.
IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?
Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(
thanks
Dave
First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...
The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...
I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?
First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...
The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...
I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?
Apple won't use the POWER5 directly any more than they'll use the POWER4. Sure IBM can build a huge 130 nm chip, but the price would be way too much for Apple's current markets (and they've shown no inclination to go into higher markets). That it doesn't have AltiVec puts POWER5 completely off Apple's radar.
The existence of a PPC 975 does not equate to "scrapping" the 970fx. The iMac, PowerBook, Xserves, and a potential headless low end box would all use the 970fx. The 975 would let them differentiate their PowerMacs from all the lower end machines, yet keep the lower end machines cool, cheap, and competitive -- something Apple's hasn't been able to manage for a long time. This would parallel the 603 vs 604 series back in '95-'96.
Comments
My big, #1, they'd-better-at-least-talk-about-it expectation: QuickTime 7. Redone. Thread-safe. Streamlined. Finally, at long last up to par with the rest of OS X's technologies in terms of quality of implementation.
Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...
Since that's not future hardware: I'm expecting two hardware announcements: FireWire over 802.15.3 (aka, Wireless FireWire, with 480Mbps bandwidth - and yeah, there's some software involved, too), and discussion of the POWER5-lite, whatever they decide to call it.
Originally posted by Amorph
Give developers a QuickTime that doesn't require hundreds of lines of opaque, COBOL-like code for even the most straightforward operation, and you'll see QT adoption out the wazoo. All things considered, it's already very well adopted given that it's a bitch to work with. But if it were a pleasure to work with...
I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only, when displaying audio and video content. And don't get me started on RealPlayer, RealOne or whatever they call it these days...
Originally posted by Ensign Pulver
People, there will be no consumer devices, iPod or otherwise at WWDC. It's a developer conference.
It's true it's a developer conference, but come on people, this is Marketing 101 here. It's a BIG press event that will get a lot of coverage. Apple & teh Steve will intro whatever they have ready - consumer or pro be damned.
Originally posted by ipodandimac
hmm... well, you'll be one of the early praisers of display support, then bitchers about battery life. seriously, i'm tired of this.
IF battery life was NOT an issue, bluetooth would be nice to share your library with fellow walkers. That's it. When I'm walking to class I don't give a damn what pictures are stored on my iPod. I can wait til a projector or TV is around, as seems more realistic.
I can see your idea now:
"Hey check out this pic of--" *gets run over by bus*
You might want to read back a bit.
hmurchison was talking about an in-dash car device to marry with the iPod. Battery life isn't an issue unless you're worried about your car's battery? Bluetooth, etc. would all be great things to see in a DIN car dash device.
Originally posted by Gavriel
I hope they deliver QuickTime 7 soon and hopefully make inroads towards standardizing around it to delivered web content. I am tired of having to keep a copy of WMP on my Mac just because more and more sites use Microsoft's proprietary format only
Me too, but I don't see much hope. The MPEG-4 consortium shot themselves in the foot with their restrictive licensing policies.
Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.
People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.
The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.
Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.
Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.
Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.
-Dr.Bimane
But here's to hoping he can prove me wrong!
C.
Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.
Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.
Thanks
Dave
Originally posted by wizard69
Croquer dans la is reporting a Dual PPC 975 @ 3GHz to be annnounced at WWDC. Should include PCI-Express, FSB of 1.5GHz and a few other goodies.
Sounds really good and I want to believe. Boy do I want to believe.
Interesting is that they are reporting power usage of 65 watts on a chip with 98 million transistors. No mention of frequency was made. The report of 98 million transistors does have me wondering just what is this, the expected Power5 derived chip or something halfway between? Lets hope whatever it is that the performance at X clock rate is superior to the current 970 which is a bit lacking. Even if clock on clock performance isn't that great this should propel Apple back in the lead for a few days.
Thanks
Dave
Clock rate doesn't matter as much as dual memory controllers. From what I understand the power5 has an on-chip mem controller... IE dual mem controllers. I think this is the main bottleneck in the current g5s.... and why I didn't buy one.
I do think apple will announce 3gs at wwdc... but I think they will ship in september... but only a "couple" will ship in that time... just so he'll be right. Then the rest will ship in oct/nov just like last year.
Originally posted by Dr.Bimane
I really have nothing to bring to the table except my opinion......but, if Apple does not announce 3.0 Gig G5s, like Jobs promised last year, the shit should (and likely will) hit the fan.
Apple has been underdelivering for years with Moto and then finally, when they promise and in fact, guarantee certain performance marks, they better deliver on it.
People can say "not Apple's fault..." and "IBM hit unexpected problems with the 90 nm process" all they want....blah blah blah......that's bullshit.
Don't promise what you can't deliver.
The real question is whether Apple will fail on this promise.
Oh, and if Apple pulls one of their famous moves....ie., announce 3.0 Gig G5s in June but not actually ship until late October or November or December, that is considered a FAILURE.
Jobs said 3.0 Gig G5s by the end of the summer. To me, that means in the hands of the customers by September 22, 2004.
Any bets? Obviously, I hope they succeed but it seems most likely that they will fail.
-Dr.Bimane
Originally posted by wwwork
What's the big deal really? SO what if the new computers are 2.6 gig or 3?
You're right, of course. The only 'but' is that Mr. Jobs has promised the world a 3GHz CPU this summer. It can hurt his and Apple's reputation badly. Note, however, that IBM didn't promise anything that cool.
In the long run it really doesn't matter. In fact, I have been prductively using a computer that has half the clock speed of the difference in what you would call failure.
If it doesn't matter to you, that does not mean it doesn't matter at all (excellent phrasing, by the way
Originally posted by costique
Second, there is marketing which always likes higher numbers, whatever they mean.
South Park Season 8: The Highest Numbered Season Yet!!!
Comedy Central's ad campaign proves your point.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
South Park Season 8: The Highest Numbered Season Yet!!!
Comedy Central's ad campaign proves your point.
On a serious note, Croquer is starting to scare me.
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
xCode
Again, this is a developer's conference, so they need to show something more than just Tiger. xCode is probably one of the biggest innovations when it comes to the overall workflow of the development process. I hope that they include other languages other that C/C++/Obj.C/Java. Other languages like Python, PHP, Perl, etc. could use with an awesome IDE like xCode (PHP and Perl may be a little difficult, being that they are scripting languages). I think they will improve upon the stability, improve upon the feature set, and improve upon the speed of the application. xCode is not something that should be over-looked, as it could very well revolutionize the whole developmental process.
Yeah, it might start to catch up with .NET.
The biggest difficulty with scripting languages is the debugger support, which is a big part of the reason for an IDE.
975?
Now I think that this is worth mentioning. The 975 (or whatever they hell they want to call it) is supposed to be based off from the Power5 chipset. This is a huge advance in quite a short period of time. As such, I think they may announce what it is, and where it will go. I honestly think we will not see a new machine with it at the WWDC, but I think we will see its immergance during MWSF 2005.
I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.
Originally posted by Programmer
I don't know when the 975 will arrive, although sooner rather than later would not surprise me greatly. As to what it is, I'm guessing it will be essentially a 970+SMT+1MB L2 cache. Some internal resources beefed up to support the SMT properly. That would probably work out to 98 million transistors.
Well I think whatever the power5 is, will arrive at wwdc... since ibm is shipping them mid june. From what I've read about the new blades, they bring to the table of smt, 1mb l2 cache, and on-board mem controller... but I think they have more transistors (going out of memory on this one).
Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?
YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.
IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?
Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(
thanks
Dave
Originally posted by emig647
Why wouldn't these be sufficient. Sure they are still 130nm but who cares when its in a tower?
Originally posted by wizard69
Are you saying the 975 is a 130nm chip? If so what else do you know?
YOu do realize that an 130nm chip with 98 million transistors is huge. I mean gigantic, like the differrence between a PT boat and an Aircraft carrier.
IF it is not a 90nm what does this say about IBM's 90nm process? Are we going to see them scrap it and start over?
Lots of questions and a long wait. ;(
thanks
Dave
First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...
The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...
IBM Blade servers with PPC POWER5
I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?
Originally posted by emig647
First of all I said Power5, not 975... We have no evidence of them being the same thing. What about the athlon 64 having over 200 million transistors and being 130nm... Its not that big...
The power5 ibm blade servers sport about 276 million transistors and are SMT. Also they are DUAL core and can run 4 threads at once. It is 130nm...
IBM Blade servers with PPC POWER5
I doubt they will scrap the 970fx (if that was what you were referring to with 90nm). They (apple) are shipping dual 2.0gs Xserves. These are 90nm... even at 2 ghz they can be extremely useful. Can we say 2ghz g5 iMac?
Apple won't use the POWER5 directly any more than they'll use the POWER4. Sure IBM can build a huge 130 nm chip, but the price would be way too much for Apple's current markets (and they've shown no inclination to go into higher markets). That it doesn't have AltiVec puts POWER5 completely off Apple's radar.
The existence of a PPC 975 does not equate to "scrapping" the 970fx. The iMac, PowerBook, Xserves, and a potential headless low end box would all use the 970fx. The 975 would let them differentiate their PowerMacs from all the lower end machines, yet keep the lower end machines cool, cheap, and competitive -- something Apple's hasn't been able to manage for a long time. This would parallel the 603 vs 604 series back in '95-'96.