Terrorists getting their beepbeeps kicked (merged)

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  • Reply 1 of 167
    jwri004jwri004 Posts: 626member
    The world feels so much safer
  • Reply 2 of 167
    faust9faust9 Posts: 1,335member


    Woo Whooo!!!



    Bin Laden is now more popular than ever in Saudi Arabia and we knocked off 120 bad guys. Stop the presses. AQ has recruited an additional 18,000, and we just polished off 120 of them. That's a good ratio I guesst-- 4:600 deaths to recruits.



    You can't polish a terd Naples. The war on terror went south when we decided to avert our attention towards Iraq. Our actions since March 03 have increased AQ recruitment and lowered US standing in the region. Sending 120 guys to hell is not going to change things.
  • Reply 3 of 167
    They weren't terrorists, they were Taliban rebels.



    Remember we invaded them because they were *harbouring* terrorists i.e. Bin Laden and co. The Taliban were just a repressive theocratic regime (like the Republicans want to be when they grow up).



    Interestingly when the media was focused on Afghanistan they never dwelled on the tribal nature of the area and how large groups of 'good guys' had been fighting for the 'bad guys' the day before as various warlords changed sides during the fighting.



    I guess reality is just too complicated for some people. Call it a terrorist, kill it and declare yourself a victory, regardless of any actual progress (or lack thereof).



    edit: I didn't realise the first story wasn't about the Taliban, the above only realy applies to the other stories.
  • Reply 4 of 167
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    In related news, US Will Revise Data on Terror.



    Quote:

    The State Department is scrambling to revise its annual report on global terrorism to acknowledge that it understated the number of deadly attacks in 2003, amid charges that the document is inaccurate and was politically manipulated by the Bush administration.



    When the most recent "Patterns of Global Terrorism" report was issued April 29, senior Bush administration officials immediately hailed it as objective proof that they were winning the war on terrorism. The report is considered the authoritative yardstick of the prevalence of terrorist activity around the world.



    "Indeed, you will find in these pages clear evidence that we are prevailing in the fight" against global terrorism, Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage said during a celebratory rollout of the report.



    But on Tuesday, State Department officials said they underreported the number of terrorist attacks in the tally for 2003, and added that they expected to release an updated version soon.



    Several U.S. officials and terrorism experts familiar with that revision effort said the new report will show that the number of significant terrorist incidents increased last year, perhaps to its highest level in 20 years.



  • Reply 5 of 167
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,990member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by faust9

    Woo Whooo!!!



    Bin Laden is now more popular than ever in Saudi Arabia and we knocked off 120 bad guys. Stop the presses. AQ has recruited an additional 18,000, and we just polished off 120 of them. That's a good ratio I guesst-- 4:600 deaths to recruits.



    You can't polish a terd Naples. The war on terror went south when we decided to avert our attention towards Iraq. Our actions since March 03 have increased AQ recruitment and lowered US standing in the region. Sending 120 guys to hell is not going to change things.




    I have never understood this logic. Actually, let me correct that...I understand perfectly. I simply think it's misguided and intellectually dishonest. First of all, can you prove your claim of 18,000 AQ? Can you prove that invading has increased recruitment at ALL? I thought not. You're basing your claims on nothing but supposition.



    Secondly, do you really believe that AQ recruitment would be lower if we had not invaded Iraq? What would you like to do..."win hearts and minds?". You don't understand. AQ and like minded groups hate and want to destroy the western civilized world. That fact cannot be changed. To quote one of its own members: "You love life. We love death". How can that be negotiated with? It cannot. The only solution is to hunt and kill terrorists across the globe. Right now, the US military is fighting terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and elswhere. Would you like to fight them in the streets of Manhattan instead?
  • Reply 6 of 167
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    "beepbeeps"??? What a beepbeep.



    SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?



    Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?



    Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.

    Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.
  • Reply 7 of 167
    naplesxnaplesx Posts: 3,743member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    "beepbeeps"??? What a beepbeep.



    SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?



    Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?



    Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.

    Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.




    I am positive they have some reason. I will never understand it, nor want to. Nevertheless, it's a reason.



    I can go along with most of what you say. I will inject that winning of hearts and minds is not always done by throwing fig leaves at the enemy. It is accomplished sometimes by inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking. The defeat of Japan and also the Soviet Union show this to an extent.



    There are a lot of factors and tactics that go into it, that's what I am saying.
  • Reply 8 of 167
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,990member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    "beepbeeps"??? What a beepbeep.



    SDW: your reply to Faust is based on nothing but suppositions aswell. Your quote is meaningless hearsay aswell. What if Faust had included a quote from a terrorist saying "our base is swelling in much larger numbers than before the Iraq invasion"? I'm sure you would've dismissed it outright. So what?



    Did it ever occur to you that those terrorists have a "cause", a "reason" to commit those evil and cowardly crimes as wildly fucked up as it may be?



    Yeah, searching and killing them sounds great and all. That's the blind patriotic way to look at it. It's much more complicated than that. You need to cut the terrorist organizations' legs, their financing and capture/kill their leaders and masterminds. At the same time, you need to get to the minds of the parents of the 10 year old potential future terrorists before they teach their kids to hate us.

    Yeah, "winning hearts and minds"(although I wouldn't quite put it that way) is a big part of the equation. Let's not be naive.




    And let's not shit each other either. HOW would you "win hearts and minds?" Secondly, we ARE killing the leadership and going after financing. And yes, of course I would dismiss a statement by a terrorist group. Wouldn't you?
  • Reply 9 of 167
    formerlurkerformerlurker Posts: 2,686member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NaplesX

    inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking.



    Ah yes... bring on the Thought Police!



    Perhaps penalties should be inflicted for improper ACTIONS, but for THINKING?
  • Reply 10 of 167
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    And let's not shit each other either. HOW would you "win hearts and minds?"



    You are no expert, and I am no expert. I doubt ay answer besides "let's nuke 'em" would satisfy you.

    A good start would be to rebuild Iraq and let them choose their own government.

    Then we could put serious pressure on the Israelis and Paletinians to find a satisfactory solution.

    Maybe even developing and quickly adopting alternatives to oil could diminish terrorism from that area. Less money, less influence, less military presence.
    Quote:

    Secondly, we ARE killing the leadership and going after financing.



    Re: the financing. BS. To what extent? Like the "war on drugs"? The idiots who Bush likes to hold hands with come from a country well known to finance terrorism. Who knows, they may even be secretly funding them.
    Quote:

    And yes, of course I would dismiss a statement by a terrorist group. Wouldn't you?



    Yeah, well you didn't dismiss that comment from the terrorist you "quoted"...which was my whole point.
    Quote:

    Naples said: I will inject that winning of hearts and minds is not always done by throwing fig leaves at the enemy. It is accomplished sometimes by inflicting penalty for incorrect thinking.



    Fig leaves? "Incorrect thinking"? WhatThebeepbeep? 1984 Extreme? Big Bro On Steroids?
    Quote:

    The defeat of Japan and also the Soviet Union show this to an extent.



    are you calling a world war...."incorrect thinking"? Awfully simplistic.
    Quote:

    There are a lot of factors and tactics that go into it, that's what I am saying.Edit:



    We can agree there. We have got to pursue other non-violent ways aswell as the ones mentioned before. Violence always brings more violence. That's not news.
  • Reply 11 of 167
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    There's a simple answer for why the conservatives are down there at the bottom of the barrel with subject matter. They are running out of good reasons to justify Bush in office and election time is growing ever more near.



    They know it won't be pretty and he's not a shoe in.



    I can't wait for November so we can stop this nonsense we've been putting up with for 4 years.
  • Reply 12 of 167




  • Reply 13 of 167
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jimmac



    I can't wait for November so we can stop this nonsense we've been putting up with for 4 years.




    Yup. And get on with a whole nother kind of nonsense!
  • Reply 14 of 167
    Found this...ont the woefully bad website of the United American Civil Taskforce.



    List of terrorists list to whether they are at large, captured or killed; By name, function and status.





    SHURA MAJLIS

    \t

    These are the first-tier guys and the actual members of al-Qaeda's board of directors. Any one of them is a possible successor to Osama bin Laden.



    Osama bin Laden

    Emir-General

    Possibly killed at Tora Bora in Dec. 2001, now believed to be at large



    Ayman al-Zawahiri

    Second-in-Command/Egyptian Islamic Jihad Emir-General

    At Large



    Mohammed Atef

    Supreme Military Commander

    Dead



    Abu Zubaydah

    Global Operations Chief

    Apprehended



    Rifa Ahmed Taha

    Gamaa al-Islamiyyah Secretary-General

    At Large



    Thirwat Salah Shirhata

    Egyptian Islamic Jihad Deputy Emir

    At Large



    Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri

    Middle East Operations Chief

    Apprehended



    Abu Musab Zarqawi

    Former Southeast Asian Operations Chief, currently Global Operations Chief

    At Large



    Abu Zubair al-Haili

    North African Operations Chief

    Apprehended



    Tawfiq Attash Khallad

    South Asian Operations Chief

    At Large



    Abu Mohammed al-Masri *

    East African Operations Chief

    At Large



    Zaid Khayr

    Unknown

    At Large



    Mohammed Salah

    Senior Explosive Expert, Central African Operations Chief \t

    Dead



    Tariq Anwar al-Sayyid Ahmad

    Balkans Operations Chief

    Dead



    Saif al-Adel **

    Former second-in-command of al-Qaeda's military, currently Supreme Military Commander

    At Large



    Amin al-Haq

    Shura Majlis Security Chief

    At Large



    Abu Hafs the Mauritanian (aka "Mr. Mauritania")

    Theologian

    Formerly believed dead, now believed to be at large







    TERRORIST TRAINING CAMP COMMANDERS



    These are the guys who supervise the training, indoctrination, and assignment of al-Qaeda operatives worldwide. They also seperate all recruits into four categories: mujahideen (foot soldiers), shahideen (suicide bombers), takfiri (sleepers), and ansar (support personnel). Each category has its own version of the "Afghan Guide to Jihad," al-Qaeda's training manual (all four versions combined are roughly 3,000 pages in length) that provides instruction to recruits for just about any situation imaginable.



    Sheikh Ibn al-Liby

    Terrorist Training Camp Commander

    Apprehended



    Abd al-Hadi al-Iraqi

    Terrorist Training Camp Commander

    Apprehended



    Omar Bandon

    Terrorist Training Camp Commander

    At Large







    THE FINANCIAL COMMITTEE



    This is the committee that oversees al-Qaeda's legitimate and illegitimate businesses, charities, drug smuggling, ect. The top ten al-Qaeda donors have all been named by both the UN and the families of 9/11 victims as being the major financiers of al-Qaeda and remain at large



    Sheikh Saeed (Mustafa Ahmed al-Hisawi?)

    Head of the Financial Committee

    Apprehended



    Mohammed Jamal Khalifa

    Financier and envoy to the Saudi Bin Laden Group

    At Large



    Abu Jafar al-Jaziri

    Financier

    Dead



    Abu Salah al-Yemeni

    Financier

    Dead



    Abdul Rahim Riyadh

    Financier

    Apprehended



    Ahmed Saeed al-Kadr

    Financier

    At Large



    Hamza al-Qatari

    Financier

    Dead





    MEDIA COMMITTEE

    This the group that manages and updates the websites, oversees the E-Jihad, and is responsible for all statements by the al-Qaeda leadership. Not a lot of declassified info on this one as far as names go.



    Suleiman Abu Ghaith

    Spokesman

    At Large



    Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri

    Spokesman/Recruiter

    At Large



    Sheikh Omar al-Bakri

    Spokesman

    At Large



    Sheikh Abu Qatada al-Philisteeni

    Spokesman

    Apprehended







    WMD COMMITTEE



    Al-Qaeda employs a number of Muslim scientists of various nationalities to assist it in procuring as well as manufacturing the necessary materials to create chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons.



    Midhat Mursi

    Top scientist for nuclear weapons research

    At Large



    Abu Khabab

    Biological and chemical weapons expert

    At Large



    Assadalah Abdul Rahman

    Weapons of Mass Destruction Chief

    At Large



    Abu Bashir al-Yemeni

    Unknown

    At Large







    MILITARY COMMITTEE



    These are the definite guys to watch out for. Most have a great deal of combat experience either from serving in Arab militaries or else from fighting in Sudan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, or the Philippines.



    Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

    Martyrdom Battalion Commander-in-Chief

    Apprehended



    Abd al-Aziz al-Jamal

    Unknown

    At Large



    Bilal bin Marwan

    Arabian Sea Commander-in-Chief

    At Large



    Qaed Salim Sinan al-Harethi

    Yemen Commander-in-Chief

    Dead



    Mohsen al-Fadli

    Kuwait Commander-in-Chief

    Apprehended



    Essid Sami ben Khemais

    Southern Europe Commander-in-Chief

    Apprehended



    Saqar al-Jadawi

    Unknown

    At Large



    Mohammed Omar Abdel Rahman

    Military Commander

    Apprehended



    Ahmed Omar Abdel Rahman

    Military Commander

    Apprehended



    Abu Walid

    Military Commander

    At Large



    Abdel Hari al-Iraqi

    Afghanistan Commander-in-Chief

    At Large



    Abu Leith al-Lybi

    Algeria/Libya Commander-in-Chief

    At Large



    Shamil Basayev

    Chechnya Commander-in-Chief

    At Large



    Amir ibn al-Khattab

    Dagestan Commander-in-Chief

    Dead



    Hanbali

    Indonesia Commander-in-Chief

    At Large



    Imam Samudra

    Java Commander-in-Chief

    Apprehended



    Mas Selamat Kastari

    Singapore Commander-in-Chief

    Apprehended



    Current Tally:



    Dead=8

    Apprehended=15

    At Large=29




    Others



    These are non-leader Al Qaeda members who are on the FBI most wanted list or have, in some way, come to attention..



    Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Sheik Mohammed Al Hasan Al-Moayad

    Financier / Cleric

    Apprehended



    Mohammed Mohsen Yahya Zayed

    Financier / Cleric

    Apprehended



    Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser

    Khobar Towers Bomber

    At Large



    Muhsin Musa Matwalli Atwah

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ali Atwa

    Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker

    At Large



    Hasan Izz-Al-Din

    Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker

    At Large



    Anas Al-Liby

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Fazul Abdullah Mohammed

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Imad Fayez Mugniyah

    Flight 847 (Lebanon) Hijacker

    At Large



    Mustafa Mohamed Fadhil

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Sheikh Ahmed Salim Swedan

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Abdul Rahman Yasin

    1993 WTC Bombing

    At Large



    Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ahmad Ibrahim Al-Mughassil

    Khobar Towers Bomber

    At Large



    Muhammad Atef

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ali Saed Bin Ali El-Hoorie

    Khobar Towers Bomber

    At Large



    Saif Al-Adel

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub

    African Embassy Bomber

    At Large



    Current Tally:



    *Note: There has been some contradictory information as to the status of this individual. Abu Mohammed al-Masri is a nom de guerre, hence one should not confuse him with the al-Qaeda functionary of the same name who was recently killed in Algeria working with the GSPC. Mossad reportedly had intelligence that al-Masri might have been one of the suicide bombers involved in the al-Qaeda attack in Mombasa, but near as I can tell the findings were not corroborated



    **Note: Per Knight Ridder, he may have been captured along with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. If this is indeed true it would be exceedingly good news.



    Terrorist Network Map



    (Active Terrorist Cells in U.S.)







    ...kinda old and we have plucked a few more. But think of the scale of this network. It is a world wide network and with fresh recruits breeding everywhere. Take down the schools and camps and maybe this could even out the score. We are definately not there yet...and sure as hell aren't "handily" there yet...



  • Reply 15 of 167
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    Yup. And get on with a whole nother kind of nonsense!





    Yes but the point is this kind of nonsense ( the kind we have currently ) could do irreparable harm. Kerry will be another politician I'm sure. But he won't be dangerously bad like what we have now!



    It's like the old saying where if they want the job they're probably wrong for it.



    If you're a Nader supporter he has no chance of getting us out of our current dilemma. Right now things are bad but without a second term to win what do you think GB will be like in the next 4 years?
  • Reply 16 of 167
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jimmac

    Yes but the point is this kind of nonsense ( the kind we have currently ) could do irreparable harm. Kerry will be another politician I'm sure. But he won't be dangerously bad like what we have now!



    It's like the old saying where if they want the job they're probably wrong for it.



    If you're a Nader supporter he has no chance of getting us out of our current dilemma. Right now things are bad but without a second term to win what do you think GB will be like in the next 4 years?




    I know, I know. I was just making a joke about how Republians can cause just as much turmoil in office (Bush) as then can when they're not in office (e.g. treating Clinton as an enemy of the state)



    Cheers

    Scott
  • Reply 17 of 167
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    I know, I know. I was just making a joke about how Republians can cause just as much turmoil in office (Bush) as then can when they're not in office (e.g. treating Clinton as an enemy of the state)



    Cheers

    Scott






    Ahh!
  • Reply 19 of 167
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    [mod's note]



    Tonton created a new thread, but I think his post is directly releated to what is already being discussed (or was being discussed) here. Hopefully this will refocus the thread and avoid too much double-posting and cross-over from one thread to the other.



    [/carry on]
  • Reply 20 of 167
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/10/pow...ort/index.html



    Bush admin officials (Armitage and Black): "Look! Terrorism was reduced in 2003! That means the war on terror is working! Look!!!"

    (Psst... actually, your data was wrong. There was actually a sharp increase in terrorism in 2003.)

    Reporters: "Does that mean the war on terror is not working?"

    Powell: "No one has suggested that the war on terror has been won."



    Answer the freaking question, Colin, you pusswat.



    The question was, "Does that mean the war on terror is not working?", not "Does that mean the war on terror has not been won?"






    How could it be won the way they are going about it?



    Like I've said before it's very similar to the war on drugs back in the 80's ( and we've seen how effective that was ).



    It makes some money for certain people, makes it look like you're doing something about the problem ( for people who aren't paying attention ), and leaves you free to follow your other real agendas ( what ever they might be ).
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