<strong>No, its not a gimmick. I think my iBook at 4.9 pounds is pretty light, shave off 40% of the weight and I'd call it a feather. Honestly, I have books (real ones) that I use for reference all the time (Deitel & Deitel rocks!) and DO carry them around that are 3 pounds. But I guess I just Think Different and so do you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I guess my word usage of "gimmick" wasn't explained. What I really mean is that a computer without a keyboard just doesn't seem useful to me. Now, loving the ibook myself, I would like to see an ibook maybe with a touchscreen display for photshop etc...that's not a bad idea...
But I think the point is that Apple don't really have the enterprise customers that MS is aiming for with these things.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would looove to have the ability to swirl the screen on my iBook on meetings. Not to take notes (the keyboard are outstanding for that) but to do sketches!
Imagine OmniGraffle in a tablet version, do superquick, superclean flowcharts right there on the meeting. Save as PDFs and mail them over to the other folks right there.
Would kick som serious ass.
And why not play a game of chess against your pal on it
Take notes? Its silly. No one takes notes on their Wacom tablets...
[quote]<strong>I iterate, I AM NOT CONCERNED WITH SUCCESS OR FAILURE OF THESE TABLET PC's.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That tends to diminish their power as examples, then, doesn't it?
The fact is that I'm so completely unconcerned with the success or failure of the tablet PCs that I don't understand why people are pressuring Apple to follow suit.
Steve's already given his opinion: He's not convinced anything will happen with them, but if so, Apple has the pieces in place to make their own tablet. Which is pretty much what I've been saying: If Apple isn't releasing a tablet, it's because they don't see the point yet. And they're happy to let MS spend all the money and take all the risks this time.
[quote]<strong>10x7 is just dumb on this size screen, and HP was stupid to do it. That said, 8x6 would be just dandy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Windows XP (or, for that matter, OS X) would look like crap on it, too. Tablets need their own interfaces, unless you're content to make them funny-looking laptops with pen support bolted on as an afterthought.
Another thing I'm waiting for: Super high-resolution displays, 300 dpi or so, and a resolution independent GUI (which neither Windows nor OS X currently has). The coarseness of today's displays is painfully obvious when you're using a pen.
[quote]<strong>As a side, if you bitch about the 12.x" 10x7 iBooks, get glasses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a noble sentiment, I'm sure, but Apple still rolled out the 14" 1024x768 iBook to cheers, and there appears to be no shortage of people willing to pay for the extra size. Apple wouldn't have hustled that model out in a few months if there wasn't a real demand for it. I know some of the people who would have demanded it, too, and they already have glasses.
As for me, I don't need glasses to love the 12" iBook's screen. But then, my coworkers all think I'm insane for actually running my 17" LCD at 1280x1024 (its native resolution).
[quote]<strong>I also think the Windows XP TABLET PC EDITION is designed to work with a pen interfacem but as someone aptly pointed out, while I can type 60+ words a minute, there is no way in hell I can scribble that fast.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's hard to say without actually looking at one, but I'm willing to bet that they didn't do a ground-up redesign of the interface. I'll bet it's like Jaguar with Inkwell, more or less: Not bad, but designed for WIMP with pen support bolted on, and uncomfortable at any resolution below 10x7. After all, it's Windows.
(It should be pretty clear by now that I wouldn't care for an Apple tablet running OS X as it appears now, either.)
[quote]<strong>Ya know, you might just have to wait to burn that CD until you get back to your desk, instead of DURING the board meeting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But you might really want to read that CD that someone just lobbed you during the meeting, or that contains the SKUs for this month's stock so that you can cruise around with your tablet and do an accurate inventory. Or whatever.
You might even want to stick in a DVD and lie down in your dorm room. Who knows?
So called "tethered" tablets - in the sense that they're essentially married to a desktop or server to get full functionality - have been discussed a lot on these forums. Depending on exactly how tethered they are, they can be very light, but useless beyond a certain radius, which is unappealing. Especially for a $1000+ device.
On the other hand, as soon as you make the tablet a laptop replacement - not a desktop replacement - the reasons to prefer it to a laptop become scarce. So you have compromise designs like the Compaq that try to have it both ways.
[quote]
If you got one of the lighter ones, and if the HWR really makes it that simple, and if the interface makes it as dead easy as the Newt's did to create, store and search for your scribblings. It's a theoretical advantage.
<strong>Remind me why I'd get a heavy one again?</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you could have a full-featured computer? You might not get one, but IIRC Gates was showing off one of the bigger ones, so clearly someone would.
[quote]<strong>10 years ago everyone said that the Newton was ahead of its time, too far ahead. Time has caught up, go into the archives, blow off the dust, revamp it and show me what can be done with today's processors, displays, and batteries.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately, NewtonOS is dead. OS X is way too heavy; Pixo's OS seems to be too light. I would like to see something evolved up from the Newton, which was absolutely nothing like a laptop - either in hardware or software. I can see a nice little machine with either no HDD or an iPod style HDD - backing store used every once in a while to refresh RAM - very long battery life and a decent-sized screen (which unfortunately does nothing for your battery life). Frankly, I expect Palm to come closest to this next summer with OS 6, based on what I've read.
But a rejiggered notebook that's trying to run a repainted desktop OS? Uhhh, no.
Do I want to scuff up the screen of my $2000 tablet with a mock pen? Anybody who actually tries to write with a pen-stylus on a touch sensitive screen knows how hard it is.
or the aforementioned anoto or OTM pen systems. Write on special paper (anoto) or any-surface OTM, and it goes straight to your computer over bluetooth.
I agree, actually writing on a screen feels really wierd and clumsy, can't match paper.
I find myself really enthused aboutt he whole OTM deal. For about 100USD manufacturers can have a bluetooth enabled device to which they might add any standard ink cartridge, and then the thing would write just like a normal pen on paper, but instantly beam your pen-strokes and character transcriptions to a computer or PDA. Cross tried this before with their cross pad, but this new evolution is even better, it gets rid of the pad altogether.
A "tablet" input device I would like to see would be simply a hard sheet, maybe a couple mm thick tops with a pressure-sensitive surface that you would use in conjunction with a regular pad of paper. Slide it under the page you're currently writing on, then just write with an ordinary pen or pencil on the paper. The pad picks up the pen movements and transmits it via USB or Bluetooth to an adjoining laptop. Software can then either translate it to text or leave it as drawings. Similar to current graphics pad technology, only much thinner. Personally, I would have lots of uses for something like that.
<strong> .....clonenode, you know, the iPod is no real innovation either then. Its just a hard drive with an MP3 decoder, playlists, and a solid state wheel. Its not always if you make something new, its MUCH more often a new way of making things work together....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Swan, I disagree. Everything you list is exactly why the iPod is an innovative MP3 player. Top it off with FireWire and you have a combination that everyone is trying to copy a year later.
Apple's "new way of making things work together" is what has made the iPod an amazing success.
[QB]Here is a simply way for Apple to create a "tablet" computer.
Keep the iBook and PowerBook exactly the same (but add internal bluetooth) and build a pen that can be used to tap on the screen and control the computer. The pen would be extra so if you don't want the feature you don't have to buy it. This would create a semi-tablet PC but without all the downsides.
The pen could be used up to 35 feet away from the computer (I think this is the range of bluetooth). You could keep your iBook in a bag while you take notes in class but your writing would be stored on the iBook as a text file. (Not a pointless tiff image).<hr></blockquote>
This is a very, very good idea. It would also be the justifiable "killer app" for Blue Tooth.
<strong>Hasn't Apple publically said that they'll 'wait and see' in regards to the Tablet PC.
I don't think the market is ready for the tablet pc. It just seems like a PDA and Laptop blended together. I don't mind the laptops/tablet combo, but think that it'll be a few years away till the market (and the technology) is really ready for tablets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed. They did say that. As for PDA/Laptop blended together... isn't that what Apple intended with Emate, hmm.... about 5 years ago? :-)
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>#1 If this were Apple with Steve giving the Demo you all would be going nuts.
#2 It is a good idea with true function. It does indeed have a specific target consumer not all but is that not apple?
You all are very sad in how you make fun of progress.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. Considering it really isn't anything new not really. All this is is Microsoft announcing their tablet OS really.
I work in one of the few industries that will likely see some adoption of tablets and despite my earlier desires for one I sit here and realise it is totally and utterly useless to me. If Apple released this I would likely be dumping stock.
2. That's the problem it really doesn't have any true function. It's currently just an expensive notepad/clipboard, which is fine if you care for that sort of thing but considering it still won't interface with the apps I need it to it's going to be useless.
In each other case I can think of a competing technology that could handle the job it does and that I already use.
The one area I could see it having promise is as a central wireless operating hub for the house but they'd really need to drop prices and very few houses are outfitted to allow for such a thing. It's also debateable whether that sort of functionality is really any use. I know several of the iHomes had a tablet for that purpose and in many cases after the house was bought the systems went unused or were removed.
I think it is rather more sad how you attack other people. These tablets really aren't new and they really aren't successful or proven to be progress of any kind yet. What I see in this case is another needless product in Microsoft's attempts to increase its revenue base. You may think that's progress but I don't. When it has true functionality and purpose then I will see progress.
A saw the Acer transformable notebook in person yesterday. The display locking and rotating mechanisme look really bad in quality. I can only hope that the other manufacturers do better. But they are still way too expensive, IMO.
Noone was able to give me a real demo of the OS because they had just played around with that thing and were not instructed by MS in any way.
So I can't say anything about the HWR but I noticed that your writing is not translated until you tell the system to do so. It rather rest on that virtual sheet of paper. And this is the one point that I found most annoying about Inkwell: You could not correct anything you wrote because the system transleted your scribble once you liftet the pen.
it can do it either way if i recall, just like the newton used to do. you can keep it as scribble text or you can choose to have it convert on the fly. i messed around with one a while ago (yes i know they were just released) and the hwr is very very good. better than the newton's was on my 130 or inkwell. it's a cool little machine. i don't know if i would personally find it incredibly useful since i type around 80 wpm. but i can see where it would be useful for some folks.
the hwr is also much more integrated with the os than inkwell is with jaguar. you can use hwr pretty much anywhere that text can be entered. i didn't play with it for more than a couple hours though so i can't really comment on how it works long term.
[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>2 Issues to address:
#1 If this were Apple with Steve giving the Demo you all would be going nuts.
#2 It is a good idea with true function. It does indeed have a specific target consumer not all but is that not apple?
You all are very sad in how you make fun of progress.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that the arguments being made here against the tablet are all valid. Your probably right in that many would instantly forget them if Steve were demoing it on stage, but ht doesn't change the fact that the TabletPC just isn't ready using current technology.
Since I've been arguing against an Apple tablet since the early days of Kormac's apostolic church, and I don't particularly care for uncle Steve or brother Bill, I think I'm very objective about this whole thing.
As to the Bluetooth Pen idea, do I hear an echo in here or what? I've been mentioning this for over a year.
A tablet faces serious problems because it does not solve any ergonomic issues, it introduces new ones! An honest look at devices that are used for writing and when standing (pen and paper pad) reveal that the range of comfortable form factors is VERY limited. Nothing close to a 15" screen. Yes you sometimes see people writing on a letter or legal size clipboard, but said board is very thin and light. Any paper notebook in such use is often no bigger than A5 size. Students writing on larger surfaces do so at desks or on their laps -- recognize that territory? That's where you use a notebook computer, haha. And while a 5-10lbs laptop can be fine, even a two to three pound book, grasped with ONE hand ALONG THE SPINE, and pressed upon with the OTHER hand, will tire out and strain your hands faster than typing. I know, I've held such text books aloft for 1-2 hours at a time while teaching, just for reference, without writing on them. Even trade paperback books (approx A5 size) are often supported by two hands when reading, and they weigh less than 2 lbs. The shape is awkward for stand up usage -- all our behavior around regular paper reveals that -- but once you sit, then a traditional laptop computer has the advantage.
For stand up usage, A5 size, thinness and lightness are needed. Then display issues arise. You won't have 1024x768, dektop OS friendly resolutions unless you have software that can intelligently scale/zoom text and icons. The device has to be easily legible in all lighting conditions. NO PDA sized screens either, too small.
I tell ya, Palm could make a better a tablet right now by making a little slate with it's screen about 4X bigger than current PDA's and some good software that communicated easily with the mothership OS (be that windows or OSX) and with wireless networks, good file compatibility and multimedia content viewers, and database organization capabilities.
3lbs may not be a lot to carry around in a bag, or under your arm, but here's a little experiment: Take a 3lb laptop (I used a Thinkpad), rest a legal pad on top of it, then cradle it in your arm and try to write on it as you would with a clipboard or tablet PC. Now I may be a weak, sick, little girl, but it gets very uncomfortable.
It seems to me, given the cited markets for the tablet PC (education, enterprise, medicine, ...) that this is a perfect opportunity to resurrect thin clients.
All it would need is a decent display, a very low-power processor, enough RAM to act as a buffer, a basic graphics chip, and WiFi (802.11g ideally, but with compression 802.11b would be usable.)
I can't see many advantages in trying to transform a fully featured laptop into a tablet PC.
<strong>the hwr is also much more integrated with the os than inkwell is with jaguar. you can use hwr pretty much anywhere that text can be entered.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhm, Inkwell in Jaguar does let you use hwr in any app. that takes text input.
I've long wanted the Ideal Note-Taking Computer. I've been a student or a teacher my whole life, so I think in academic terms, but I'm sure it would be applicable to business as well.
These are my thoughts:
1. Needs a pen.
I've tried using a notebook for notetaking (!) from time to time, but it doesn't work. You need to have a pen to sketch a diagram or table.
2. Needs a keyboard
I've also tried taking notes with a Palm. No-go. Slow handwriting recognition isn't fast enough.
Even the store-it-now, decode-it-later method, as used by the Newton or the new Tablet PCs, isn't that useful. If I want 100% accurate, searchable, backupable, emailable text, which is the reason to use a computer in the first place, then I want to use a keyboard.
3. Needs to be flat
If you've ever been at a conference table or classroom with someone using a laptop, you know how bad it sucks. The screen hides their hands, and part of their face, and makes it very unnatural to communicate with them.
Also, trying to draw on a hinged laptop screen sounds like asking for an ugly accident, with the laptop falling over backwards.
But if the computer lays flat like a pad of paper, then it's out of the way, recording notes, rather than interfering with the learning.
Conclusion
All of these thoughts brings me to a design something like this (forgive the 2-minute copy-and-paste job):
It's kind of screwy looking, and the proportions are off (too tall) but you get the idea: You can type on it, because that is how God intended text to be entered. You can sketch on it, because that is how God intended drawings to be made. It lays flat, because that works naturally.
If Apple made an iPad/iBook variant like this, I'd get one in a second.
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: mithras the prophet ]
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: mithras the prophet ]</p>
Comments
I have yet to see a good review on these things. This is just like Windows CE 1.0, it needs so much work it's not even funny.
<strong>No, its not a gimmick. I think my iBook at 4.9 pounds is pretty light, shave off 40% of the weight and I'd call it a feather. Honestly, I have books (real ones) that I use for reference all the time (Deitel & Deitel rocks!) and DO carry them around that are 3 pounds. But I guess I just Think Different and so do you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey, I guess my word usage of "gimmick" wasn't explained. What I really mean is that a computer without a keyboard just doesn't seem useful to me. Now, loving the ibook myself, I would like to see an ibook maybe with a touchscreen display for photshop etc...that's not a bad idea...
[ 11-08-2002: Message edited by: Bioflavonoid ]</p>
<strong>
But I think the point is that Apple don't really have the enterprise customers that MS is aiming for with these things.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would looove to have the ability to swirl the screen on my iBook on meetings. Not to take notes (the keyboard are outstanding for that) but to do sketches!
Imagine OmniGraffle in a tablet version, do superquick, superclean flowcharts right there on the meeting. Save as PDFs and mail them over to the other folks right there.
Would kick som serious ass.
And why not play a game of chess against your pal on it
Take notes? Its silly. No one takes notes on their Wacom tablets...
That tends to diminish their power as examples, then, doesn't it?
The fact is that I'm so completely unconcerned with the success or failure of the tablet PCs that I don't understand why people are pressuring Apple to follow suit.
Steve's already given his opinion: He's not convinced anything will happen with them, but if so, Apple has the pieces in place to make their own tablet. Which is pretty much what I've been saying: If Apple isn't releasing a tablet, it's because they don't see the point yet. And they're happy to let MS spend all the money and take all the risks this time.
[quote]<strong>10x7 is just dumb on this size screen, and HP was stupid to do it. That said, 8x6 would be just dandy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And Windows XP (or, for that matter, OS X) would look like crap on it, too. Tablets need their own interfaces, unless you're content to make them funny-looking laptops with pen support bolted on as an afterthought.
Another thing I'm waiting for: Super high-resolution displays, 300 dpi or so, and a resolution independent GUI (which neither Windows nor OS X currently has). The coarseness of today's displays is painfully obvious when you're using a pen.
[quote]<strong>As a side, if you bitch about the 12.x" 10x7 iBooks, get glasses.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a noble sentiment, I'm sure, but Apple still rolled out the 14" 1024x768 iBook to cheers, and there appears to be no shortage of people willing to pay for the extra size. Apple wouldn't have hustled that model out in a few months if there wasn't a real demand for it. I know some of the people who would have demanded it, too, and they already have glasses.
As for me, I don't need glasses to love the 12" iBook's screen. But then, my coworkers all think I'm insane for actually running my 17" LCD at 1280x1024 (its native resolution).
[quote]<strong>I also think the Windows XP TABLET PC EDITION is designed to work with a pen interfacem but as someone aptly pointed out, while I can type 60+ words a minute, there is no way in hell I can scribble that fast.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's hard to say without actually looking at one, but I'm willing to bet that they didn't do a ground-up redesign of the interface. I'll bet it's like Jaguar with Inkwell, more or less: Not bad, but designed for WIMP with pen support bolted on, and uncomfortable at any resolution below 10x7. After all, it's Windows.
(It should be pretty clear by now that I wouldn't care for an Apple tablet running OS X as it appears now, either.)
[quote]<strong>Ya know, you might just have to wait to burn that CD until you get back to your desk, instead of DURING the board meeting.</strong><hr></blockquote>
But you might really want to read that CD that someone just lobbed you during the meeting, or that contains the SKUs for this month's stock so that you can cruise around with your tablet and do an accurate inventory. Or whatever.
You might even want to stick in a DVD and lie down in your dorm room. Who knows?
So called "tethered" tablets - in the sense that they're essentially married to a desktop or server to get full functionality - have been discussed a lot on these forums. Depending on exactly how tethered they are, they can be very light, but useless beyond a certain radius, which is unappealing. Especially for a $1000+ device.
On the other hand, as soon as you make the tablet a laptop replacement - not a desktop replacement
[quote]
If you got one of the lighter ones, and if the HWR really makes it that simple, and if the interface makes it as dead easy as the Newt's did to create, store and search for your scribblings. It's a theoretical advantage.
<strong>Remind me why I'd get a heavy one again?</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you could have a full-featured computer? You might not get one, but IIRC Gates was showing off one of the bigger ones, so clearly someone would.
[quote]<strong>10 years ago everyone said that the Newton was ahead of its time, too far ahead. Time has caught up, go into the archives, blow off the dust, revamp it and show me what can be done with today's processors, displays, and batteries.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Unfortunately, NewtonOS is dead. OS X is way too heavy; Pixo's OS seems to be too light. I would like to see something evolved up from the Newton, which was absolutely nothing like a laptop - either in hardware or software. I can see a nice little machine with either no HDD or an iPod style HDD - backing store used every once in a while to refresh RAM - very long battery life and a decent-sized screen (which unfortunately does nothing for your battery life). Frankly, I expect Palm to come closest to this next summer with OS 6, based on what I've read.
But a rejiggered notebook that's trying to run a repainted desktop OS? Uhhh, no.
[ 11-08-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
<strong>
It took me a little time, but here ya go:
<a href="http://x2112.dyndns.org/images/ipad.jpg"; target="_blank">http://x2112.dyndns.org/images/ipad.jpg</a>;
Like this?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Donkey Kong!!!
Do I want to scuff up the screen of my $2000 tablet with a mock pen? Anybody who actually tries to write with a pen-stylus on a touch sensitive screen knows how hard it is.
There has to be a better way...
or the aforementioned anoto or OTM pen systems. Write on special paper (anoto) or any-surface OTM, and it goes straight to your computer over bluetooth.
I agree, actually writing on a screen feels really wierd and clumsy, can't match paper.
I find myself really enthused aboutt he whole OTM deal. For about 100USD manufacturers can have a bluetooth enabled device to which they might add any standard ink cartridge, and then the thing would write just like a normal pen on paper, but instantly beam your pen-strokes and character transcriptions to a computer or PDA. Cross tried this before with their cross pad, but this new evolution is even better, it gets rid of the pad altogether.
dosn't this "other pc" look like a mac 7500/100?
<strong> .....clonenode, you know, the iPod is no real innovation either then. Its just a hard drive with an MP3 decoder, playlists, and a solid state wheel. Its not always if you make something new, its MUCH more often a new way of making things work together....
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Swan, I disagree. Everything you list is exactly why the iPod is an innovative MP3 player. Top it off with FireWire and you have a combination that everyone is trying to copy a year later.
Apple's "new way of making things work together" is what has made the iPod an amazing success.
#1 If this were Apple with Steve giving the Demo you all would be going nuts.
#2 It is a good idea with true function. It does indeed have a specific target consumer not all but is that not apple?
You all are very sad in how you make fun of progress.
Fellowship
[QB]Here is a simply way for Apple to create a "tablet" computer.
Keep the iBook and PowerBook exactly the same (but add internal bluetooth) and build a pen that can be used to tap on the screen and control the computer. The pen would be extra so if you don't want the feature you don't have to buy it. This would create a semi-tablet PC but without all the downsides.
The pen could be used up to 35 feet away from the computer (I think this is the range of bluetooth). You could keep your iBook in a bag while you take notes in class but your writing would be stored on the iBook as a text file. (Not a pointless tiff image).<hr></blockquote>
This is a very, very good idea. It would also be the justifiable "killer app" for Blue Tooth.
<strong>Hasn't Apple publically said that they'll 'wait and see' in regards to the Tablet PC.
I don't think the market is ready for the tablet pc. It just seems like a PDA and Laptop blended together. I don't mind the laptops/tablet combo, but think that it'll be a few years away till the market (and the technology) is really ready for tablets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed. They did say that. As for PDA/Laptop blended together... isn't that what Apple intended with Emate, hmm.... about 5 years ago? :-)
<strong>#1 If this were Apple with Steve giving the Demo you all would be going nuts.
#2 It is a good idea with true function. It does indeed have a specific target consumer not all but is that not apple?
You all are very sad in how you make fun of progress.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. Considering it really isn't anything new not really. All this is is Microsoft announcing their tablet OS really.
I work in one of the few industries that will likely see some adoption of tablets and despite my earlier desires for one I sit here and realise it is totally and utterly useless to me. If Apple released this I would likely be dumping stock.
2. That's the problem it really doesn't have any true function. It's currently just an expensive notepad/clipboard, which is fine if you care for that sort of thing but considering it still won't interface with the apps I need it to it's going to be useless.
In each other case I can think of a competing technology that could handle the job it does and that I already use.
The one area I could see it having promise is as a central wireless operating hub for the house but they'd really need to drop prices and very few houses are outfitted to allow for such a thing. It's also debateable whether that sort of functionality is really any use. I know several of the iHomes had a tablet for that purpose and in many cases after the house was bought the systems went unused or were removed.
I think it is rather more sad how you attack other people. These tablets really aren't new and they really aren't successful or proven to be progress of any kind yet. What I see in this case is another needless product in Microsoft's attempts to increase its revenue base. You may think that's progress but I don't. When it has true functionality and purpose then I will see progress.
Noone was able to give me a real demo of the OS because they had just played around with that thing and were not instructed by MS in any way.
So I can't say anything about the HWR but I noticed that your writing is not translated until you tell the system to do so. It rather rest on that virtual sheet of paper. And this is the one point that I found most annoying about Inkwell: You could not correct anything you wrote because the system transleted your scribble once you liftet the pen.
the hwr is also much more integrated with the os than inkwell is with jaguar. you can use hwr pretty much anywhere that text can be entered. i didn't play with it for more than a couple hours though so i can't really comment on how it works long term.
<strong>2 Issues to address:
#1 If this were Apple with Steve giving the Demo you all would be going nuts.
#2 It is a good idea with true function. It does indeed have a specific target consumer not all but is that not apple?
You all are very sad in how you make fun of progress.
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>
Except that the arguments being made here against the tablet are all valid. Your probably right in that many would instantly forget them if Steve were demoing it on stage, but ht doesn't change the fact that the TabletPC just isn't ready using current technology.
Since I've been arguing against an Apple tablet since the early days of Kormac's apostolic church, and I don't particularly care for uncle Steve or brother Bill, I think I'm very objective about this whole thing.
As to the Bluetooth Pen idea, do I hear an echo in here or what? I've been mentioning this for over a year.
A tablet faces serious problems because it does not solve any ergonomic issues, it introduces new ones! An honest look at devices that are used for writing and when standing (pen and paper pad) reveal that the range of comfortable form factors is VERY limited. Nothing close to a 15" screen. Yes you sometimes see people writing on a letter or legal size clipboard, but said board is very thin and light. Any paper notebook in such use is often no bigger than A5 size. Students writing on larger surfaces do so at desks or on their laps -- recognize that territory? That's where you use a notebook computer, haha. And while a 5-10lbs laptop can be fine, even a two to three pound book, grasped with ONE hand ALONG THE SPINE, and pressed upon with the OTHER hand, will tire out and strain your hands faster than typing. I know, I've held such text books aloft for 1-2 hours at a time while teaching, just for reference, without writing on them. Even trade paperback books (approx A5 size) are often supported by two hands when reading, and they weigh less than 2 lbs. The shape is awkward for stand up usage -- all our behavior around regular paper reveals that -- but once you sit, then a traditional laptop computer has the advantage.
For stand up usage, A5 size, thinness and lightness are needed. Then display issues arise. You won't have 1024x768, dektop OS friendly resolutions unless you have software that can intelligently scale/zoom text and icons. The device has to be easily legible in all lighting conditions. NO PDA sized screens either, too small.
I tell ya, Palm could make a better a tablet right now by making a little slate with it's screen about 4X bigger than current PDA's and some good software that communicated easily with the mothership OS (be that windows or OSX) and with wireless networks, good file compatibility and multimedia content viewers, and database organization capabilities.
It seems to me, given the cited markets for the tablet PC (education, enterprise, medicine, ...) that this is a perfect opportunity to resurrect thin clients.
All it would need is a decent display, a very low-power processor, enough RAM to act as a buffer, a basic graphics chip, and WiFi (802.11g ideally, but with compression 802.11b would be usable.)
I can't see many advantages in trying to transform a fully featured laptop into a tablet PC.
<strong>the hwr is also much more integrated with the os than inkwell is with jaguar. you can use hwr pretty much anywhere that text can be entered.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhm, Inkwell in Jaguar does let you use hwr in any app. that takes text input.
These are my thoughts:
1. Needs a pen.
I've tried using a notebook for notetaking (!) from time to time, but it doesn't work. You need to have a pen to sketch a diagram or table.
2. Needs a keyboard
I've also tried taking notes with a Palm. No-go. Slow handwriting recognition isn't fast enough.
Even the store-it-now, decode-it-later method, as used by the Newton or the new Tablet PCs, isn't that useful. If I want 100% accurate, searchable, backupable, emailable text, which is the reason to use a computer in the first place, then I want to use a keyboard.
3. Needs to be flat
If you've ever been at a conference table or classroom with someone using a laptop, you know how bad it sucks. The screen hides their hands, and part of their face, and makes it very unnatural to communicate with them.
Also, trying to draw on a hinged laptop screen sounds like asking for an ugly accident, with the laptop falling over backwards.
But if the computer lays flat like a pad of paper, then it's out of the way, recording notes, rather than interfering with the learning.
Conclusion
All of these thoughts brings me to a design something like this (forgive the 2-minute copy-and-paste job):
It's kind of screwy looking, and the proportions are off (too tall) but you get the idea: You can type on it, because that is how God intended text to be entered. You can sketch on it, because that is how God intended drawings to be made. It lays flat, because that works naturally.
If Apple made an iPad/iBook variant like this, I'd get one in a second.
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: mithras the prophet ]
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: mithras the prophet ]</p>