AMD making dual core cpu's! What about Apple?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
LINK



Any idea about Apple's timeframe for getting dual-core cpu's made?



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 44
    their not making dual cores yet they expect them next year id look at freescale and ibms roadmaps before apple they do make the chips
  • Reply 2 of 44
    existenceexistence Posts: 991member
    Intel is also planning on having dual-core Prescotts in 2005.



    Because of hyperthreading, the dual-core Prescott will be seen as a 4-processor system.
  • Reply 3 of 44
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Did you think IBM was the only ones making dual core processors?
  • Reply 4 of 44
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,414member
    IBM's Power5 is dual core.... hopefully the speculated 975 will be a derived proc from the power5.



    If it is... then I'd expect dual core in 2005.
  • Reply 5 of 44
    zapchudzapchud Posts: 844member
    Power 4 is dual core as well. Even if the 975 is derived from the P5, it doesn't need to be dual core.
  • Reply 6 of 44
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mello

    LINK



    Any idea about Apple's timeframe for getting dual-core cpu's made?









    AMD / IBM / Intel / Motorola = Chip Manufactures



    Apple / Compaq / Dell / HP / Gateway = Computer Makers



    Nuff said? (somehow I don't think so) so I'll continue... Apple will develop a box using someone's dual core CPU when it's economical for them to do so. Sure they could buy dual core Power4's but nobody (for all intents and purposes) is gonna pay the $20k+++ per box that it would cost to build it.



    It amazes me, Apple is expected to compete with:



    Intel *PLUS* AMD *PLUS* Dell *PLUS* Microsoft



    All in all I think they're doing a pretty freakin good job given the combined wealth of the companies listed above.



    Dave
  • Reply 7 of 44
    northgatenorthgate Posts: 4,461member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    It amazes me, Apple is expected to compete with:



    Intel *PLUS* AMD *PLUS* Dell *PLUS* Microsoft



    All in all I think they're doing a pretty freakin good job given the combined wealth of the companies listed above.



    Dave




    Well said.
  • Reply 8 of 44
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    ...t amazes me, Apple is expected to compete with:



    Intel *PLUS* AMD *PLUS* Dell *PLUS* Microsoft



    All in all I think they're doing a pretty freakin good job given the combined wealth of the companies listed above.



    Dave




    Apple shouldnt compete with Intel unless Intel enters Apple's market. However they do compete with both Dell and Microsoft, and to not take that competition seriously is a mistake. Apple may not be able to compete compleatly on price, but they could and should do a better job at it than they are today.
  • Reply 9 of 44
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by @homenow

    Apple shouldnt compete with Intel unless Intel enters Apple's market. However they do compete with both Dell and Microsoft, and to not take that competition seriously is a mistake. Apple may not be able to compete compleatly on price, but they could and should do a better job at it than they are today.



    No..



    I'm talking about what some posters here thing Apple should be doing...



    AMD does this why doesn't Apple and/or why is Apple behind the curve?

    Intel does that why doesn't Apple and/or why is Apple behind the curve?

    Dell does this why doesn't Apple and/or why is Apple behind the curve?

    Microsoft does this why doesn't Apple and/or why is Apple behind the curve?

    XYZ is doing dual bonded 802.11G why doesn't Apple



    Yadda yadda yadda...



    Apple can't have it's fingers into everything... it's gotta pick and choose very very carefully. Give em an 80 billion dollar war chest then yea sure they SHOULD be into everything but till then Apple can't be everywhere...



    That's all I'm saying...



    Dave
  • Reply 10 of 44
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    I've been alluding to that in most of my arguments against these requests for ridiculous new products for a long time, but mostly what I see of the recent complaints are for neglecting existing products. I for one have been complaining about the lack of graphics features in PowerMacs, and that after a years time there was only a speed bump. Even if you don't have an 80 billion dollar war chest you have 12 months to make adjustments to your existing Pro machine, but all you do is increase the MHz. Sure they added a water cooler, but IBM was working on the Processors. What was the team dedicated to the PowerMac doing for 12 months? Installing a radiator?



    I think my personal biaching is valid. But thats my opinion.
  • Reply 11 of 44
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,414member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    I've been alluding to that in most of my arguments against these requests for ridiculous new products for a long time, but mostly what I see of the recent complaints are for neglecting existing products. I for one have been complaining about the lack of graphics features in PowerMacs, and that after a years time there was only a speed bump. Even if you don't have an 80 billion dollar war chest you have 12 months to make adjustments to your existing Pro machine, but all you do is increase the MHz. Sure they added a water cooler, but IBM was working on the Processors. What was the team dedicated to the PowerMac doing for 12 months? Installing a radiator?



    I think my personal biaching is valid. But thats my opinion.




    In all seriousness what could they have added for graphics?



    9800xt is almost the nicest normal consumer card out there. Can you really expect them to add a FireGL 9800 when hardly anyone will pay the 700-900 dollars for one? It would be a waste of money to manufacture them.



    The X800xt is brand new... it has barely been on the PC market more than 3 weeks. Same with the geforce 6800... Apple didn't have a whole lot of options as far as graphics.



    They did update the bus... they did update the powersupply... they did update the cooling system...



    This was REV B... which means updating... not re-inventing.

    I suppose they could have added more memory (ram and HD)... but that just would have taken away from their profit margins big time. Personally I wish they would come without a hd and ram as a BTO option.



    If this was Rev C and they didn't redesign the case, the mobo, the graphics... then I would be bitching. What does suck is they waited a year to announce this speed bump.



    But I have a feeling apple was waiting it out for better chips... no go I guess.
  • Reply 12 of 44
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by emig647

    In all seriousness what could they have added for graphics?



    9800xt is almost the nicest normal consumer card out there. Can you really expect them to add a FireGL 9800 when hardly anyone will pay the 700-900 dollars for one? It would be a waste of money to manufacture them.



    The X800xt is brand new... it has barely been on the PC market more than 3 weeks. Same with the geforce 6800... Apple didn't have a whole lot of options as far as graphics.



    They did update the bus... they did update the powersupply... they did update the cooling system...



    This was REV B... which means updating... not re-inventing.

    I suppose they could have added more memory (ram and HD)... but that just would have taken away from their profit margins big time. Personally I wish they would come without a hd and ram as a BTO option.



    If this was Rev C and they didn't redesign the case, the mobo, the graphics... then I would be bitching. What does suck is they waited a year to announce this speed bump.



    But I have a feeling apple was waiting it out for better chips... no go I guess.




    #1) You just said it your self. "Consumer card." This is the PowerMac, Not the iMac. It's supposed to be Apples Pro level machine. Yet you cant configure a Pro level card from Apple directly, or a 3RD party. It's that simple.



    #2) I wouldn't buy a FireGL not because it costs $700 because it cant handle OpenGL nor does any ATI card.



    #3) The graphics card I configured in my new system costs 4 times that so price is not the issue.



    You also state that



    Quote:

    The X800xt is brand new... it has barely been on the PC market more than 3 weeks. Same with the geforce 6800... Apple didn't have a whole lot of options as far as graphics.



    Apple has to wait on ATI to make cards because they actually make the cards, but it's not like Apple has to wait for announcements from ATI, or Nvidia like we do on graphics technology when they work with these companies. If it's been known to PC manufacturers for X amount of time it's been known to Apple for the same amount of time. They have the ability to have total accessibility before hand to get these parts readied for upcoming systems. Accept it's different with ATI because ATI makes the Mac cards themselves. After the PC ones naturally. Which is why they should invest some money in Gainward the card manufacturer that makes their Nvidia cards. Who also make Pro level cards for the PC side that are not available to Mac users.
  • Reply 13 of 44
    thttht Posts: 3,249member
    Considering the difficulties at 90 nm, all road maps are in doubt. Even Intel is having considerable difficulties at 90 nm, and that spells trouble for everyone else. AMD has yet to ship their 90 nm parts, so lets wait and see what happens in 2H 04 first before letting the panic set in.
  • Reply 14 of 44
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Considering the difficulties at 90 nm, all road maps are in doubt. Even Intel is having considerable difficulties at 90 nm, and that spells trouble for everyone else. AMD has yet to ship their 90 nm parts, so lets wait and see what happens in 2H 04 first before letting the panic set in.



    Good to see your still around THT.
  • Reply 15 of 44
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,414member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    #1) You just said it your self. "Consumer card." This is the PowerMac, Not the iMac. It's supposed to be Apples Pro level machine. Yet you cant configure a Pro level card from Apple directly, or a 3RD party. It's that simple.



    #2) I wouldn't buy a FireGL not because it costs $700 because it cant handle OpenGL nor does any ATI card.



    #3) The graphics card I configured in my new system costs 4 times that so price is not the issue.




    First off, you obviously didn't get what I was saying especially since you pointed it out with your second quote below.



    No way apple is going to manufacture a card that costs 600 dollars to everyone. If they were to sell the X800pro or xt right now it would be AT LEAST 600 dollars. Not enough people would buy this card and would leave apple with stockpiles of x800's. Or 6800's... which ever. It is not a smart business strategy to produce something that around 1%-3% of the purchasers of the powermac are going to buy.



    In all honestly there isn't a huge difference between x800 and the 9800xt.



    Next, another reason not to produce these cards could be the proposed move to PCI-E. What if apple moves over to PCI-E in about 6-7 months. That means they would have ot sell everyone of those $700 cards before they moved over. Again, they would be sitting on mass amounts of expensive cards for nothing.



    In no way shape or form was it practical to manufacture these cards. I believe this is the same reason they went with the 9800pro instead of the 9800xt when the original g5's came out. I think it was even more true with this Rev though. Another thing to remember is MOST people don't do BTO any ways...



    So how do you justify apple spending a bunch of money to have these cards manufactured and selling them all?



    Someone said it best yesterday, Apple can't compete with everyone by themselves.



    Quote:



    Apple has to wait on ATI to make cards because they actually make the cards, but it's not like Apple has to wait for announcements from ATI,




  • Reply 16 of 44
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by emig647



    So how do you justify apple spending a bunch of money to have these cards manufactured and selling them all?





    There are thousands of seats of Maya, Cinema 4D, Lightwave, ZBrush, Ei Universe, and other 3d Applications sold to Mac users. There is also Pixar who is using G5 for who knows what, and other 3D houses big, and small using Mac's in 3D in some form or another. I know Jason Schleifer of Weta Digital used to use a Mac.

    Apple is not even selling a 3D workstation, and Apple knows this. Those are a few of the cards to be sold, but what about the cards to be sold once the PowerMac has it available. I don't think they would have a problem selling them personally.

    If Apple started showing off the PowerMac as a plausible 3D workstation there are a lot that would sell because there are a lot of Mac users in 3D even though there are so few Mac's. The only reason for fewer Mac's is that the Mac cant keep up in graphics. It doesn't mean people don't want them. (price is sometimes an issue brought up also, but look what Apple did with Macs in schools)



    But if you are that concerned about selling the off xxxxx amount of cards completely. Apple, and a 3rd party (Using NVidia) could post a Mac, and 3D graphics page with a message saying something to the affect of.



    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Apple is committed above all else to satisfying the needs of our user base. It has come to our attention that the lack of Professional level 3D graphics cards is an issue with a growing number of our customers. In an effort to see if this growing number is great enough for us to commit ourselves to this growing field, Apple, and "Blank 3D Graphics" (<-Insert 3rd party Nvidia graphics card manufacturer here), have agreed that it "may be possible" to produce a yet undetermined amount of cards in a trial situation so we may have some idea how many users are interested, and would actually commit to buying this type of highend product from Apple, and "Blank 3D Graphics".

    Before we do that please note that we said" May be possible". Because for this to happen Apple, and "Blank 3D Graphics" must reach certain number of cards, and know they will be purchased before it is financially plausible for us to continue foreword with these discussions.



    So we are setting up this page for anyone interested in purchasing such a card. In the form below please fill out your name, and relevant information, and select from the list of Nvidia cards, with corresponding performance, and price that best interests you.

    When, and if we have enough information we will be able to continue our discussion, and determine which card (or cards) will be produced.



    If at that time we believe we will reach our minimum sales goal we will post a pre-order page to insure that we will make our minimum sales, and when a yet undetermined amount of pre-orders have been placed at that time "Blank 3D Graphics" will produce a yet undetermined amount of cards.

    Until the yet undetermined amount of pre-orders go into production any orders will be fully refundable.



    -------------------------------------------------



    I think something like that would take care of any concerns. If it's a problem of underselling cards, or having to produce X amount to make it worth it for a 3Rd party to bother. I think it could work.

    If it happened Apple could also start selling the PowerMac as a real DCC work station, and they would also have far, and beyond the best looking HD/DV workstation.



    If I were an Apple corporate sales rep my commissions would be awesome. These machines could easily sell themselves. Because it's a Mac, and their back! Those words put fear into PC manufacturers because they are true. The Mac is hibernating, and they fear the day it wakes up.
  • Reply 17 of 44
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,277member
    Here's what Apple should do.



    1. Get an IBM dual core CPU out ASAP. Add ondie memory controllers and increase the die size to accomdate the second core. Speeeeeeeeeeeed



    2. Get Nvidia and ATI onboard or buy 3D Labs from that hell hole that is Creative.



    3. Acquire Luxology and ship Mac and Linux versions. Add extra features in the Mac version that integrate it nicely into a Shake/FCP workflow.



    4. Market the hell out of it. Create section on the Apple Store dedicated to showing DCC machines and Video setups(they have something similar now but it's too simplistic)



    Alias was too expensive at $60 million dollars. Apple needs to get in on the ground level for 3D



    Back OT I have no doubt that IBM has dual cores coming. You will always see roadmaps coming from AMD and Intel. Just because IBM doesn't divulge as much info doesn't mean they are working on it.
  • Reply 18 of 44
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,414member
    I'll bite onlooker... that could possibly work.



    But I still stand by my main point... PCI-E is coming... why produce all of these AGP 8x cards when the technology will be extinct soon? If this were PCI-E types I'd say for apple to go for it. Someone also mentioned that pc sales needs to drive price down before apple can really use it. Think about how overpriced the x800xt is right now... for not that much performance gain over the 9800xt. Either way by the time pci-e comes out for apple machines, then prices will be acceptable.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    There are thousands of seats of Maya, ...



  • Reply 19 of 44
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by emig647

    for not that much performance gain over the 9800xt.



    I agreed with what you were saying right up until you said that. The new line of graphics chips from nVidia and ATI are considerably faster than the old generation. That said ATI and nVidia are both still ramping up production so I'm not overly surprised they aren't announced yet. It would have been nice to see an announcement saying they're coming but no big deal.
  • Reply 20 of 44
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,414member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    I agreed with what you were saying right up until you said that. The new line of graphics chips from nVidia and ATI are considerably faster than the old generation. That said ATI and nVidia are both still ramping up production so I'm not overly surprised they aren't announced yet. It would have been nice to see an announcement saying they're coming but no big deal.



    What do you mean they aren't announced yet? You can get a 9600 and a x800pro right now... I don't think the x800xt is announced yet...



    But cinebench (I know this is a particular program and doesn't show all around results) shows that the x800pro does not have much of a performance gain over the 9800xt... From what I have read the x800pro and 6800 are about neck and neck... sometimes the x800pro edging it by a small margin.



    Either way, I still feel not many would purchase them. Maybe onlooker maybe have a point with that petition. My only problem with it is it isn't very professional to do that when a company is the size of Apple.
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