If anyone cares to see the photos, they can be found
I don't think its acceptable to link to 'this particular' web site in AO, regardless of wether the pictures are there or not. If I was at work when I clicked the link I could have gotr in serious trouble.
I'm disgusted with everything about this situation. I disagree with some of the statments about how killing or capturing the leaders of various terrorist groups will not solve anything. This is no doubt a difficult situation and I think we are doing a lot to try and resolve this. These people who commit such atrocitys do not need political motivation to stir up their actions. think of how the violent criminals in the US would act if unchecked, now try to imagine places like afganistan that are over run by small groups of individuals with their own agenda (political or not).
In the name of humanity it is important to remenber that turning our backs on terrorists around the world is to do the people of those areas an injustice and it has and will continue to come back to haunt us if we choose to ignore it. I am not trying to ignite the readers or this forums political fires. Quite frankly I have seen way too much of it here lately and have been involved in making harsh statments. The thing I am trying to point out is that acts such as this beheading are not done by rational individuals and they should not be free to do this to anyone anywhere ever again.
I feel so much for this mans family who pleaded to have their father/husband/friend released. This is why there is a war on terorism, it is mindless evil that underminds everything rational in the world. I hope my comments are not taken out of context.
I don't think its acceptable to link to 'this particular' web site in AO, regardless of wether the pictures are there or not. If I was at work when I clicked the link I could have gotr in serious trouble.
If you're worried that the site might not be good for work viewing, then I'm guessing it's equally if not more unacceptable to view images of people with their heads cut off.
In the name of humanity it is important to remenber that turning our backs on terrorists around the world is to do the people of those areas an injustice and it has and will continue to come back to haunt us if we choose to ignore it.
We should definitly be going after the terrorist cells who take responsibility for the killings of Nick Berg and Paul Johnson.
I would agree with you on this point. However there is also a distinction to be made between using the military to seek out terrorists and going to war against a country.
We have plenty of power to go after terrorists, but when we masquerade the invasion and subsequent occupation of an entire country, Iraq, in the name of hunting terrorists, our credability is lost.
I wish the US would concentrate their efforts on finding the people that commit these attrocities rather than looking for more governments to overthrow.
If you're worried that the site might not be good for work viewing, then I'm guessing it's equally if not more unacceptable to view images of people with their heads cut off.
OK, I flew off a reply in complete anger at your post linking to that site. Im not saying its unacceptable to view the images. I think people should decide that for themselves, but to link to an extremely dubious site in a publicly accessable forum could lead to traumatised children, weak stomached adults, and anyone in an official position of responsibility, ie work, could be fired on the spot.
OK, I flew off a reply in complete anger at your post linking to that site. Im not saying its unacceptable to view the images. I think people should decide that for themselves, but to link to an extremely dubious site in a publicly accessable forum could lead to traumatised children, weak stomached adults, and anyone in an official position of responsibility, ie work, could be fired on the spot.
It was grossely irresponsible.
Spare me.
This thread is about a man getting his head cut off, and my link specifically stated that it was to photos of it. It's not like someone is going to see something they aren't completely aware of. I didn't pretend it was a link to the Teletubbies home page.
That link was there for people to click on at their own discretion. I understand the site might not be the best to link to from AO, but grossly irresponsible? Please.
This thread is about a man getting his head cut off, and my link specifically stated that it was to photos of it. It's not like someone is going to see something they aren't completely aware of. I didn't pretend it was a link to the Teletubbies home page.
That link was there for people to click on at their own discretion. I understand the site might not be the best to link to from AO, but grossly irresponsible? Please.
Im fine with your view. I did click, and the content didn't bother me much*, but it was grossly irresponsible to link to it in an unrestricted public forum, regardless of perceived warning
*in the context of absolutely knowing what it might contain.
Im not responding to this anymore, its off-topic, and can only help to get the thread closed.
You know though, maybe this news will put some people in their place. Trust me, I dont like war at all, but if we jsut sit back and watch this happen everytime, what's stopping them? The other day when the pic of this guy was on CNN (before beheading) I said, "Gee, I bet our govt wont do anything and we'll have another beheading." Well, looks like I was right. The problem is, people get pissed when we go to war, but hate our govt for not taking action. People need to make up their damn minds. If there is ever a time for war, it's now. Obviously peace is the first option by a long shot, but I dont think anyone who is running for president this election is capable of making peace happen. I dont want a draft or anything, but what the hell are we telling the terrorists by shugging off their antics?
You know though, maybe this news will put some people in their place. Trust me, I dont like war at all, but if we jsut sit back and watch this happen everytime, what's stopping them?
The question should be: "What is starting them"?
Quote:
Obviously peace is the first option by a long shot, but I dont think anyone who is running for president this election is capable of making peace happen. I dont want a draft or anything, but what the hell are we telling the terrorists by shugging off their antics?
I don't get this. Peace is a pretty normal state for a large portion of the countries around the world.
Some of you people speak of terrorist like they are a natural phenomenon that every spring appears out of nowhere...
You know though, maybe this news will put some people in their place. Trust me, I dont like war at all, but if we jsut sit back and watch this happen everytime, what's stopping them?
This makes no sense. What does hunting down terrorists have to do with going to war? Do you believe that the current war (against Iraq) is an anti-terrorist act?
I am anti war, but I believe that we should go after terrorists. They are two different things. We do not need to occupy countries to go after and attack terrorist cells.
Every rational person can see that this beheading is an act of terrorism and those responsible should be brought to justice. The Saudi Arabians claim to be attempting to locate them at this moment.
Well if that's the question, then the answer is: The imprisonment of Al Qaeda members by the Saudis.
The only demand made by this group was the release of AL Qaeda prisoners from the custody of the Saudis, so how that relates to Mr. Johnson himself I fail to see. But it's far easier to look past the barbarism of these individuals and instead imply there is some greater evil they are rebelling against.
Evil will only beget more evil in those who are evil to begin with.
Well if that's the question, then the answer is: The imprisonment of Al Qaeda members by the Saudis.
The only demand made by this group was the release of AL Qaeda prisoners from the custody of the Saudis, so how that relates to Mr. Johnson himself I fail to see. But it's far easier to look past the barbarism of these individuals and instead imply there is some greater evil they are rebelling against.
Evil will only beget more evil in those who are evil to begin with.
I rather think the answer has something to do with "root causes". Not whatever happend yesterday that inspires more revenge...
But the Sauds are indeed implicated in some of those "root causes".
I don't get this. Peace is a pretty normal state for a large portion of the countries around the world.
Some of you people speak of terrorist like they are a natural phenomenon that every spring appears out of nowhere...
Please be more clear with your point. Are you suggesting that the US causes terrorism? I dont want to read too much into your response but if this is the case you really need to rethink what your saying.
Suggesting that the US ignites terrorism (the level of terrorism where people are being beheaded) is just insane. The cause and effect of terrorism argument is not legitimate. How do you justify some of the terrorist actions that have taken place? Car Bombings everyday in Iraq & Afghanastan killing innocent citizens of these countries, beheadings, the original WTC bombing, Hijacking passenger planes and flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people....all for what? What point is being made here? The fact is, this is madness and the US is not the cause of it. It is irresponsible to try and pawn off this level of fanatical lunacy on "the U.S.'s foreign policy".
This makes no sense. What does hunting down terrorists have to do with going to war? Do you believe that the current war (against Iraq) is an anti-terrorist act?
I am anti war, but I believe that we should go after terrorists.
I'll give you 10 bucks if you can go after terrorists and successfully stop them without starting a war.
New: I'm talking about peace with Al Qaeda and stuff.
Please be more clear with your point. Are you suggesting that the US causes terrorism? I dont want to read too much into your response but if this is the case you really need to rethink what your saying.
Suggesting that the US ignites terrorism (the level of terrorism where people are being beheaded) is just insane. The cause and effect of terrorism argument is not legitimate. How do you justify some of the terrorist actions that have taken place? Car Bombings everyday in Iraq & Afghanastan killing innocent citizens of these countries, beheadings, the original WTC bombing, Hijacking passenger planes and flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people....all for what? What point is being made here? The fact is, this is madness and the US is not the cause of it. It is irresponsible to try and pawn off this level of fanatical lunacy on "the U.S.'s foreign policy".
No, the US is not the "cause" of terrorism. But there is of course a "cause".
Or several.
A car bombing in Bagdad and the WTC attacks have very different causes. The thing they have in common is that they are both related to the US and the Arab world.
The question is then, How are US policies dealing with these different "causes". Especially in the arab world.
In the case of OBL, his agenda was originally regime change in Saudi Arabia, and the removal of US army bases, which he considered an occupying army, protecting a puppet government. It might have evolved into lunacy. But the original intentions of OBL seems quite clear.
So, why are there US army bases in Saudi Arabia? And why is the US supporting the undemocratic, corrupt and brutal Saud dictatorship?
Seems to me OBL could have lost much recruiting material right there.
You don't have to justify these actions in order to try to analyze them.
It would be irresposible to not.
People do things for a reason. The coca-farmers in Colombia have no intention of harming the US. Not yet anyway.
Comments
Originally posted by rageous
If anyone cares to see the photos, they can be found
I don't think its acceptable to link to 'this particular' web site in AO, regardless of wether the pictures are there or not. If I was at work when I clicked the link I could have gotr in serious trouble.
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't realise what I had done.
Both of you, edit your posts immediately.
In the name of humanity it is important to remenber that turning our backs on terrorists around the world is to do the people of those areas an injustice and it has and will continue to come back to haunt us if we choose to ignore it. I am not trying to ignite the readers or this forums political fires. Quite frankly I have seen way too much of it here lately and have been involved in making harsh statments. The thing I am trying to point out is that acts such as this beheading are not done by rational individuals and they should not be free to do this to anyone anywhere ever again.
I feel so much for this mans family who pleaded to have their father/husband/friend released. This is why there is a war on terorism, it is mindless evil that underminds everything rational in the world. I hope my comments are not taken out of context.
Originally posted by BuonRotto
Let's address the damn topic or the thread will be closed.
I assume you are talking to me? Sorry about that.
[On Topic]
I don't think the Saudi's care too much about US citizens.
Originally posted by MarcUK
I don't think its acceptable to link to 'this particular' web site in AO, regardless of wether the pictures are there or not. If I was at work when I clicked the link I could have gotr in serious trouble.
If you're worried that the site might not be good for work viewing, then I'm guessing it's equally if not more unacceptable to view images of people with their heads cut off.
Originally posted by Playmaker
In the name of humanity it is important to remenber that turning our backs on terrorists around the world is to do the people of those areas an injustice and it has and will continue to come back to haunt us if we choose to ignore it.
We should definitly be going after the terrorist cells who take responsibility for the killings of Nick Berg and Paul Johnson.
I would agree with you on this point. However there is also a distinction to be made between using the military to seek out terrorists and going to war against a country.
We have plenty of power to go after terrorists, but when we masquerade the invasion and subsequent occupation of an entire country, Iraq, in the name of hunting terrorists, our credability is lost.
I wish the US would concentrate their efforts on finding the people that commit these attrocities rather than looking for more governments to overthrow.
Originally posted by rageous
If you're worried that the site might not be good for work viewing, then I'm guessing it's equally if not more unacceptable to view images of people with their heads cut off.
OK, I flew off a reply in complete anger at your post linking to that site. Im not saying its unacceptable to view the images. I think people should decide that for themselves, but to link to an extremely dubious site in a publicly accessable forum could lead to traumatised children, weak stomached adults, and anyone in an official position of responsibility, ie work, could be fired on the spot.
It was grossely irresponsible.
Originally posted by MarcUK
OK, I flew off a reply in complete anger at your post linking to that site. Im not saying its unacceptable to view the images. I think people should decide that for themselves, but to link to an extremely dubious site in a publicly accessable forum could lead to traumatised children, weak stomached adults, and anyone in an official position of responsibility, ie work, could be fired on the spot.
It was grossely irresponsible.
Spare me.
This thread is about a man getting his head cut off, and my link specifically stated that it was to photos of it. It's not like someone is going to see something they aren't completely aware of. I didn't pretend it was a link to the Teletubbies home page.
That link was there for people to click on at their own discretion. I understand the site might not be the best to link to from AO, but grossly irresponsible? Please.
Originally posted by rageous
Spare me.
This thread is about a man getting his head cut off, and my link specifically stated that it was to photos of it. It's not like someone is going to see something they aren't completely aware of. I didn't pretend it was a link to the Teletubbies home page.
That link was there for people to click on at their own discretion. I understand the site might not be the best to link to from AO, but grossly irresponsible? Please.
Im fine with your view. I did click, and the content didn't bother me much*, but it was grossly irresponsible to link to it in an unrestricted public forum, regardless of perceived warning
*in the context of absolutely knowing what it might contain.
Im not responding to this anymore, its off-topic, and can only help to get the thread closed.
Originally posted by ipodandimac
You know though, maybe this news will put some people in their place. Trust me, I dont like war at all, but if we jsut sit back and watch this happen everytime, what's stopping them?
The question should be: "What is starting them"?
Obviously peace is the first option by a long shot, but I dont think anyone who is running for president this election is capable of making peace happen. I dont want a draft or anything, but what the hell are we telling the terrorists by shugging off their antics?
I don't get this. Peace is a pretty normal state for a large portion of the countries around the world.
Some of you people speak of terrorist like they are a natural phenomenon that every spring appears out of nowhere...
Originally posted by ipodandimac
You know though, maybe this news will put some people in their place. Trust me, I dont like war at all, but if we jsut sit back and watch this happen everytime, what's stopping them?
This makes no sense. What does hunting down terrorists have to do with going to war? Do you believe that the current war (against Iraq) is an anti-terrorist act?
I am anti war, but I believe that we should go after terrorists. They are two different things. We do not need to occupy countries to go after and attack terrorist cells.
Every rational person can see that this beheading is an act of terrorism and those responsible should be brought to justice. The Saudi Arabians claim to be attempting to locate them at this moment.
Originally posted by New
The question should be: "What is starting them"?
Well if that's the question, then the answer is: The imprisonment of Al Qaeda members by the Saudis.
The only demand made by this group was the release of AL Qaeda prisoners from the custody of the Saudis, so how that relates to Mr. Johnson himself I fail to see. But it's far easier to look past the barbarism of these individuals and instead imply there is some greater evil they are rebelling against.
Evil will only beget more evil in those who are evil to begin with.
Originally posted by rageous
Well if that's the question, then the answer is: The imprisonment of Al Qaeda members by the Saudis.
The only demand made by this group was the release of AL Qaeda prisoners from the custody of the Saudis, so how that relates to Mr. Johnson himself I fail to see. But it's far easier to look past the barbarism of these individuals and instead imply there is some greater evil they are rebelling against.
Evil will only beget more evil in those who are evil to begin with.
I rather think the answer has something to do with "root causes". Not whatever happend yesterday that inspires more revenge...
But the Sauds are indeed implicated in some of those "root causes".
Originally posted by New
The question should be: "What is starting them"?
I don't get this. Peace is a pretty normal state for a large portion of the countries around the world.
Some of you people speak of terrorist like they are a natural phenomenon that every spring appears out of nowhere...
Please be more clear with your point. Are you suggesting that the US causes terrorism? I dont want to read too much into your response but if this is the case you really need to rethink what your saying.
Suggesting that the US ignites terrorism (the level of terrorism where people are being beheaded) is just insane. The cause and effect of terrorism argument is not legitimate. How do you justify some of the terrorist actions that have taken place? Car Bombings everyday in Iraq & Afghanastan killing innocent citizens of these countries, beheadings, the original WTC bombing, Hijacking passenger planes and flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people....all for what? What point is being made here? The fact is, this is madness and the US is not the cause of it. It is irresponsible to try and pawn off this level of fanatical lunacy on "the U.S.'s foreign policy".
Originally posted by buckeye
This makes no sense. What does hunting down terrorists have to do with going to war? Do you believe that the current war (against Iraq) is an anti-terrorist act?
I am anti war, but I believe that we should go after terrorists.
I'll give you 10 bucks if you can go after terrorists and successfully stop them without starting a war.
New: I'm talking about peace with Al Qaeda and stuff.
Originally posted by ipodandimac
New: I'm talking about peace with Al Qaeda and stuff.
IMHO, The only way peace between the US & Al Q would happen is if the US turned its back on Israel.
Originally posted by Playmaker
Please be more clear with your point. Are you suggesting that the US causes terrorism? I dont want to read too much into your response but if this is the case you really need to rethink what your saying.
Suggesting that the US ignites terrorism (the level of terrorism where people are being beheaded) is just insane. The cause and effect of terrorism argument is not legitimate. How do you justify some of the terrorist actions that have taken place? Car Bombings everyday in Iraq & Afghanastan killing innocent citizens of these countries, beheadings, the original WTC bombing, Hijacking passenger planes and flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people....all for what? What point is being made here? The fact is, this is madness and the US is not the cause of it. It is irresponsible to try and pawn off this level of fanatical lunacy on "the U.S.'s foreign policy".
No, the US is not the "cause" of terrorism. But there is of course a "cause".
Or several.
A car bombing in Bagdad and the WTC attacks have very different causes. The thing they have in common is that they are both related to the US and the Arab world.
The question is then, How are US policies dealing with these different "causes". Especially in the arab world.
In the case of OBL, his agenda was originally regime change in Saudi Arabia, and the removal of US army bases, which he considered an occupying army, protecting a puppet government. It might have evolved into lunacy. But the original intentions of OBL seems quite clear.
So, why are there US army bases in Saudi Arabia? And why is the US supporting the undemocratic, corrupt and brutal Saud dictatorship?
Seems to me OBL could have lost much recruiting material right there.
You don't have to justify these actions in order to try to analyze them.
It would be irresposible to not.
People do things for a reason. The coca-farmers in Colombia have no intention of harming the US. Not yet anyway.