When Steve announced OSX, he said it would be Apples OS for the next 15 years or so - ithought i remebered 20, but that can't be right. How long has it been? 3 so far?
What he said was that this (then) new OS would provide a solid base for the following fifteen years of development. Anything could happen in that time but the Mac OS might still be around and feeding off the same foundations in that time frame.
It wasn't meant to be understood that Mac OS X (read ten) would be around for that long. Since then though, more and more people have continuously called it Mac OS X (as in the letter X) and there seems to be some people at Apple that are keen to make the X part stick (and let people do what they want with it) and use it as a branding element.
So we will have Mac OS X 10.0.0 , 10.1.0, 10.2.0 ? up to 11.0.0 and beyond. The X part will become part of the Mac OS name ('Mac OS X') followed by the version scheme (10, 11, 12 etc).
I think psgamer0921\t got some cables crossed somewhere.
So we will have Mac OS X 10.0.0 , 10.1.0, 10.2.0 ? up to 11.0.0 and beyond. The X part will become part of the Mac OS name ('Mac OS X') followed by the version scheme (10, 11, 12 etc).
I agree, X was such a fundemental change from classic that it needed a new persona, much like the transition to Mac from lisa and the APPLE][ although I am a little young to remember it...ok so I wasnt born when the mac came out... from what I read, tons of people got mad so the APPLE][ had to be phased out, not simpley replaced - the same is true with osx, thus I predict that after 3+ years, of X, the last remnents of OS/9, the current line of PMG4's will be discontinued/eol'd/made X only and price cut at WWDC
after thought:
Hey, a speeds bump and slight architecture modifications and a minor case re-tooling and vwala, the ever vaunted "headless iMac"
I remain convinced that Tiger is going to usher in some larger architectural improvements than Panther offered. Think about it Panther updated applications that come with the OS but other than FUS, Journaling there really weren't any updates that really changed fundamentally at the core. I look at as Panther was replacing old code with new stronger foundation. Now Tiger should show us why those internal code updates happened.
I don't really buy the whole "no one has information". Apple has plugged the leaks well. If anything leaks it's not divulged until a day or two before the even if it's major so that tracing back is harder. Thinksecret might have a report on Tiger a day or two before. We'll see.
Hmmm let me ponder on what I think we'll see.
Quartz Extreme II- Much faster. Finally the gui speed we require.
Quicktime 7 - Much better speed and new codecs etc. Big update.
OpenGL 2.0 - Apple is first to offer new OpenGL
Rendezvous + - Rendezvous sees some enhancements makng it stronger in router based networks.
How the hell could OS X survive for 20 years? 20 years ago, computers would take up a whole room. There's no way any OS would survive 20 years, or even 15 years
20 years ago, computers would take up a whole room.
Umm, no they didn't. The first Mac was released 20 years ago and the Apple II was released almost 30 years ago.
There were many personal computers at that time: Commodore C-64 and Vic-20; Sinclair ZX Spectrum; IBM PC AT etc etc. All of them much smaller than a room and many smaller than today's desktop Macs.
Umm, no they didn't. The first Mac was released 20 years ago and the Apple II was released almost 30 years ago.
There were many personal computers at that time: Commodore C-64 and Vic-20; Sinclair ZX Spectrum; IBM PC AT etc etc. All of them much smaller than a room and many smaller than today's desktop Macs.
Some did. This Cray XMP Supercomputer was used in 1984 to create special effects for the movie The Last Starfighter.
And for something slightly on topic... I hope we'll see some steps forward in metadata integration with Tiger.
Is it just going to be a bug fix update? or will there be new features?
I'm sure we knew more about Panther at about this time last year..
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
All I hope for is: The freezing issues will be fixed, Quicktime 7 (with the new MPEG4 codec), Mail 2 (Mail has been at version 1 since the NEXT days!), OpenGL 2, better Safari (this is a given), refinements to the UI & something completly unexpected (like Rendezvous or Exposé)
Guess you guys haven't seen that page about Spoken Interface? Well, if you couldn't see, actually, you'd be pretty excited I bet! But then...you probably wouldn't be reading AI.
All this metadata blahblah that's great, we know it's coming, either with Tiger or 10.5. Now, what about some smaller stuff that's missing from OS 9 that's just dead simple to add but pisses me off still? Where the crap is PUT AWAY for Trash in OS X!!!!! AAAh!! Stuff like this. Also Locations just aren't as good in OS X. It should say Welcome to Macintosh longer, it just flashes it, on boot, maybe it should display it on the beginning grey screen. And while we're at it ad the Happy Mac back!!! Or make a Happy iMac! Perhaps the original colored one, or maybe it would detect automatically what machine you have and use that, that would be neat.
Safari. Boy it needs work. It can't even save a Page. Duh? It doesn't save an entire page when you select Save. Pretty basic functionality. Even worse, no UNDO in the Edit menu!!! If you type a huge response here and accidentally delete it, you can't Undo. Oops. And no History. It needs a History like even ancient IE has. Safari's History doesn't go past 3 days! What the hell is that. That surprises me it wasn't like that from day 1. It should have the same view layout as Bookmarks. Apple apps are becoming really great at transparently being powerful databases. I'm sure these will all be fixed by Safari 2.0, rendering it the absolute best browser in the world. A few other powerful features from Mozilla and OmniWeb will be added too hopefully like pipelining, ad blocking, etc. And what if Safari adds a Compose tool, like Mozilla! Currently Mozilla has the best web page composer in my opinion. It's just so easy and straightforward! Hopefully Safari will add in a simple yet powerful Compose feature in 2.0. And include many of the features in the Debug menu in regular menus, like changing the User Agent, and Open Page WIth... Also the download window needs to be better, like IE's for example. The Page Zoom from Opera would be nice to add. It's just simple in Opera, the whole page shrinks or grows. And I like how Safari so far hasn't added those silly Drawers or Sidebars, I can't stand those things, vertical controls have never appealed to me. Perhaps it's habit but they seem to go against the grain of a good GUI. Keep that up and integrate it with Spoken Interface and we're good with Safari.
iChat well, it just doesn't work. I'm sure that's mostly AOL's fault, for not sharing information. For example it seems there are problems with video between AIM and iChat. Even between Macs, with iChat to AIM, file transfers, images, and other multimedia, almost always mess up. AIM X for Mac is bad enough. Sigh. I bet the new conferencing feature from AOL for AIM won't be iChat ready either. Hopefully by the time AIM 6 rolls out iChat and Mac AIM X will have caught up to AIM 5.5 or even AIM 5. I mean jeez AIM X doesn't even have Talk and has tons of basic text bugs but at least transfers things reliably.
A lot of features have been in OS X since 10.1 like hidden controls for the Dock, making it transparent, changing arrow color, etc. I say, continue opening these "hidden" features up, like when they opened up Dock position that was good, and revealed JFS in Panther. More of this is always good. TinkerTool and their ilk should continue become less necessary. TinkerTool is still important for controlling font sizes, which I believe was simply in a Control Panel in 9 but it's been so long I can't remember! Hehe. And they should include those boss System 7 Desktop Backgrounds! So bright they were you had to wear shades! 8)
I want the box looks cooler than Panther though. One thing that is boring, is Metal.
they seem to work ok, not that ive used them that much.
I have been able to run some KDE apps on OSX, such as Konqueror, on top of X11. I obtained those using FinkCommander and I don't know if they are the same port as in the link you provided. Unfortunately they don't behave as nicely as in LINUX. KDE/X11 window dragging and resizing seem to be weird/broken under OSX. Another anoyance is that when X11 starts running it always opens 3 large terminal windows for some reason. So there is plenty of room for improvement, and it would be nice if KDE was an installation option on OSX instead of one having to download and compile a whole bunch of packages.
Just for some clarity on the Gnome/KDE/Mac OS X thing:
* You get Gnome (and KDE) apps which replace things like Safari or Mail as well as the Gnome (and KDE) Desktop which is the equivalent of Mac OS X's Apple Menu + Menu Bar + Dock + Finder + System Preferences + a few other bits and bobs.
* You can currently run most Gnome and KDE apps in X11 for Mac OS X, the integration is so-so at the moment and will almost certainly improve in Tiger since Apple is going around big corporate clients and asking what X11 apps they run. They then aim to ensure that they run well on the Mac.
* Most KDE apps are based on the Qt framework, which is their equivalent to Cocoa, since quite recently this framework has been available for the Mac so if developers want to they can recompile their apps with minimal effort to work as native Mac OS X apps. The results look/feel roughly about as native as Java apps.
* You can also run the entire Gnome or KDE desktop full screen as a replacement for, or co-existing with Mac OS X. Apple have no real reason to help you do this though I doubt they'll do anything to stop you. It's a bit sketchy at the moment but it will improve, just probably not driven by Apple development.
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
You have to be kidding...or you have to have linked us to the wrong page. What you showed us is some sort of sick OS X/Windows mix. While I could love with a lot of KDE themes or whatever they are called, I can't say I'd prefer them over Aqua or other themes for OS X...like milk is pretty nice, although not playful enough.
Apple have no real reason to help you do this though I doubt they'll do anything to stop you. It's a bit sketchy at the moment but it will improve, just probably not driven by Apple development.
Apple does have a real reason to do it, which is to keep a customer happy. Apple already includes other open source free software as part of OSX, so it wouldn't be unprecedented to start including KDE.
The benefit I see in KDE is being able to run the exact same free GUI apps on all my computers, which currently include a couple of X86 LINUX ones and a couple of Apple OSX ones (G3 and G5). I think large corporate users with a mix of X86 and Apple hardware would also see the benefit of a well behaved KDE on OSX, so it isn't just me that Apple would be pleasing.
Of course, I would prefer to run OSX instead of LINUX on my X86 machines, but that would be asking too much, wouldn't it?
Comments
According to this site, UNICS was released in 9/1969.
Originally posted by the cool gut
When Steve announced OSX, he said it would be Apples OS for the next 15 years or so - ithought i remebered 20, but that can't be right. How long has it been? 3 so far?
What he said was that this (then) new OS would provide a solid base for the following fifteen years of development. Anything could happen in that time but the Mac OS might still be around and feeding off the same foundations in that time frame.
It wasn't meant to be understood that Mac OS X (read ten) would be around for that long. Since then though, more and more people have continuously called it Mac OS X (as in the letter X) and there seems to be some people at Apple that are keen to make the X part stick (and let people do what they want with it) and use it as a branding element.
So we will have Mac OS X 10.0.0 , 10.1.0, 10.2.0 ? up to 11.0.0 and beyond. The X part will become part of the Mac OS name ('Mac OS X') followed by the version scheme (10, 11, 12 etc).
I think psgamer0921\t got some cables crossed somewhere.
Originally posted by Avon B7
...
So we will have Mac OS X 10.0.0 , 10.1.0, 10.2.0 ? up to 11.0.0 and beyond. The X part will become part of the Mac OS name ('Mac OS X') followed by the version scheme (10, 11, 12 etc).
I agree, X was such a fundemental change from classic that it needed a new persona, much like the transition to Mac from lisa and the APPLE][ although I am a little young to remember it...ok so I wasnt born when the mac came out... from what I read, tons of people got mad so the APPLE][ had to be phased out, not simpley replaced - the same is true with osx, thus I predict that after 3+ years, of X, the last remnents of OS/9, the current line of PMG4's will be discontinued/eol'd/made X only and price cut at WWDC
after thought:
Hey, a speeds bump and slight architecture modifications and a minor case re-tooling and vwala, the ever vaunted "headless iMac"
I don't really buy the whole "no one has information". Apple has plugged the leaks well. If anything leaks it's not divulged until a day or two before the even if it's major so that tracing back is harder. Thinksecret might have a report on Tiger a day or two before. We'll see.
Hmmm let me ponder on what I think we'll see.
Quartz Extreme II- Much faster. Finally the gui speed we require.
Quicktime 7 - Much better speed and new codecs etc. Big update.
OpenGL 2.0 - Apple is first to offer new OpenGL
Rendezvous + - Rendezvous sees some enhancements makng it stronger in router based networks.
Java update - more speed. More developer options
Safari - New Safari version.
Originally posted by psgamer0921
How the hell could OS X survive for 20 years? 20 years ago, computers would take up a whole room. There's no way any OS would survive 20 years, or even 15 years
*cough* Unix *cough*
*cough* 30+ years old *cough*
Originally posted by psgamer0921
20 years ago, computers would take up a whole room.
Umm, no they didn't. The first Mac was released 20 years ago and the Apple II was released almost 30 years ago.
There were many personal computers at that time: Commodore C-64 and Vic-20; Sinclair ZX Spectrum; IBM PC AT etc etc. All of them much smaller than a room and many smaller than today's desktop Macs.
Originally posted by entmoots
Umm, no they didn't. The first Mac was released 20 years ago and the Apple II was released almost 30 years ago.
There were many personal computers at that time: Commodore C-64 and Vic-20; Sinclair ZX Spectrum; IBM PC AT etc etc. All of them much smaller than a room and many smaller than today's desktop Macs.
Some did. This Cray XMP Supercomputer was used in 1984 to create special effects for the movie The Last Starfighter.
And for something slightly on topic... I hope we'll see some steps forward in metadata integration with Tiger.
Originally posted by tadunne
There does not seem to be much buzz about Tiger?
No one seems to know anything at all?
Is it just going to be a bug fix update? or will there be new features?
I'm sure we knew more about Panther at about this time last year..
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/kde320shots.php
Originally posted by Tidris
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/kde320shots.php
I checked it out, KDE is nice, but I hope you are not holding your breath for this.
Originally posted by Stoo
Can you compile and run KDE from source on a Mac ? Not that I'd want to just to run KFM... And what about GNOME?
Yep they can be both compiled and run via X11.
KDE though is being ported to run natively.. see http://kde.opendarwin.org/
they seem to work ok, not that ive used them that much.
All this metadata blahblah that's great, we know it's coming, either with Tiger or 10.5. Now, what about some smaller stuff that's missing from OS 9 that's just dead simple to add but pisses me off still? Where the crap is PUT AWAY for Trash in OS X!!!!! AAAh!! Stuff like this. Also Locations just aren't as good in OS X. It should say Welcome to Macintosh longer, it just flashes it, on boot, maybe it should display it on the beginning grey screen. And while we're at it ad the Happy Mac back!!! Or make a Happy iMac! Perhaps the original colored one, or maybe it would detect automatically what machine you have and use that, that would be neat.
Safari. Boy it needs work. It can't even save a Page. Duh? It doesn't save an entire page when you select Save. Pretty basic functionality. Even worse, no UNDO in the Edit menu!!! If you type a huge response here and accidentally delete it, you can't Undo. Oops. And no History. It needs a History like even ancient IE has. Safari's History doesn't go past 3 days! What the hell is that. That surprises me it wasn't like that from day 1. It should have the same view layout as Bookmarks. Apple apps are becoming really great at transparently being powerful databases. I'm sure these will all be fixed by Safari 2.0, rendering it the absolute best browser in the world. A few other powerful features from Mozilla and OmniWeb will be added too hopefully like pipelining, ad blocking, etc. And what if Safari adds a Compose tool, like Mozilla! Currently Mozilla has the best web page composer in my opinion. It's just so easy and straightforward! Hopefully Safari will add in a simple yet powerful Compose feature in 2.0. And include many of the features in the Debug menu in regular menus, like changing the User Agent, and Open Page WIth... Also the download window needs to be better, like IE's for example. The Page Zoom from Opera would be nice to add. It's just simple in Opera, the whole page shrinks or grows. And I like how Safari so far hasn't added those silly Drawers or Sidebars, I can't stand those things, vertical controls have never appealed to me. Perhaps it's habit but they seem to go against the grain of a good GUI. Keep that up and integrate it with Spoken Interface and we're good with Safari.
iChat well, it just doesn't work. I'm sure that's mostly AOL's fault, for not sharing information. For example it seems there are problems with video between AIM and iChat. Even between Macs, with iChat to AIM, file transfers, images, and other multimedia, almost always mess up. AIM X for Mac is bad enough. Sigh. I bet the new conferencing feature from AOL for AIM won't be iChat ready either. Hopefully by the time AIM 6 rolls out iChat and Mac AIM X will have caught up to AIM 5.5 or even AIM 5. I mean jeez AIM X doesn't even have Talk and has tons of basic text bugs but at least transfers things reliably.
A lot of features have been in OS X since 10.1 like hidden controls for the Dock, making it transparent, changing arrow color, etc. I say, continue opening these "hidden" features up, like when they opened up Dock position that was good, and revealed JFS in Panther. More of this is always good. TinkerTool and their ilk should continue become less necessary. TinkerTool is still important for controlling font sizes, which I believe was simply in a Control Panel in 9 but it's been so long I can't remember! Hehe. And they should include those boss System 7 Desktop Backgrounds! So bright they were you had to wear shades! 8)
I want the box looks cooler than Panther though. One thing that is boring, is Metal.
Originally posted by revs
Yep they can be both compiled and run via X11.
KDE though is being ported to run natively.. see http://kde.opendarwin.org/
they seem to work ok, not that ive used them that much.
I have been able to run some KDE apps on OSX, such as Konqueror, on top of X11. I obtained those using FinkCommander and I don't know if they are the same port as in the link you provided. Unfortunately they don't behave as nicely as in LINUX. KDE/X11 window dragging and resizing seem to be weird/broken under OSX. Another anoyance is that when X11 starts running it always opens 3 large terminal windows for some reason. So there is plenty of room for improvement, and it would be nice if KDE was an installation option on OSX instead of one having to download and compile a whole bunch of packages.
* You get Gnome (and KDE) apps which replace things like Safari or Mail as well as the Gnome (and KDE) Desktop which is the equivalent of Mac OS X's Apple Menu + Menu Bar + Dock + Finder + System Preferences + a few other bits and bobs.
* You can currently run most Gnome and KDE apps in X11 for Mac OS X, the integration is so-so at the moment and will almost certainly improve in Tiger since Apple is going around big corporate clients and asking what X11 apps they run. They then aim to ensure that they run well on the Mac.
* Most KDE apps are based on the Qt framework, which is their equivalent to Cocoa, since quite recently this framework has been available for the Mac so if developers want to they can recompile their apps with minimal effort to work as native Mac OS X apps. The results look/feel roughly about as native as Java apps.
* You can also run the entire Gnome or KDE desktop full screen as a replacement for, or co-existing with Mac OS X. Apple have no real reason to help you do this though I doubt they'll do anything to stop you. It's a bit sketchy at the moment but it will improve, just probably not driven by Apple development.
Originally posted by Tidris
Well, I would like to see the option of using the KDE GUI instead of Aqua when one logs on to OSX. I have been using KDE on X86 LINUX recently and it is pretty good. You can see some pictures of it here:
http://www.kde.org/screenshots/kde320shots.php
You have to be kidding...or you have to have linked us to the wrong page. What you showed us is some sort of sick OS X/Windows mix. While I could love with a lot of KDE themes or whatever they are called, I can't say I'd prefer them over Aqua or other themes for OS X...like milk is pretty nice, although not playful enough.
Originally posted by Aquatic
And no History. It needs a History like even ancient IE has. Safari's History doesn't go past 3 days! What the hell is that.
Which is it, No History or only 3 days worth? I certainly have more than 3 days of history in my menu.
I have had no problems with iChat AV using video to AIM 5.5 on my wife's PC or to my parents using iChat.
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
Apple have no real reason to help you do this though I doubt they'll do anything to stop you. It's a bit sketchy at the moment but it will improve, just probably not driven by Apple development.
Apple does have a real reason to do it, which is to keep a customer happy. Apple already includes other open source free software as part of OSX, so it wouldn't be unprecedented to start including KDE.
The benefit I see in KDE is being able to run the exact same free GUI apps on all my computers, which currently include a couple of X86 LINUX ones and a couple of Apple OSX ones (G3 and G5). I think large corporate users with a mix of X86 and Apple hardware would also see the benefit of a well behaved KDE on OSX, so it isn't just me that Apple would be pleasing.
Of course, I would prefer to run OSX instead of LINUX on my X86 machines, but that would be asking too much, wouldn't it?
Originally posted by Aquatic
And no History. It needs a History like even ancient IE has. Safari's History doesn't go past 3 days! What the hell is that.]
I clearly have the wrong version of Safari... my history goes back well beyond 3 days. I wonder why it is broken
How the heck do you have more than 3 days of history in Safari? It aint in the prefernces...