ThinkSecret is pretty good when it comes to sources. Yes, it has been wrong before...but overall, the ratio of hits to misses is pretty high.
The only thing that doesn't make sense...if Apple knew that an iMac G5 was not going to be announced until toward the end of the year to hit the holiday season (as TS infers) then why wasn't the iMac G4 line refreshed at the same time the eMacs were?
The eMac uses a superior G4 chip with double the L2 cache.
The eMac uses a superior SuperDrive with 8x instead of 4x speed.
The eMac is @ 1.25 GHz, while the 15" iMac is only @ 1 GHz.
The eMac has a Radeon 9200 while the 15" iMac has an older GeForce4 MX.
I simply can't imagine that Apple knew there would be no new iMac G5 until Q4 of this year, and yet left the iMac G4 line (especially the 15") in such disarray. If Apple had dropped the iMac price, it would be acceptable. But the iMac's ridiculous pricing compared to the eMac, with lesser technology being used, is simply outrageous. Apple does not deserve to be selling any iMacs right now...at a $300 to $1300 premium over the eMac. Sorry..the flat panels simply don't warrant that price differential.
So in this case, it seems counter-intuitive that no new iMac is coming anytime soon. TS could be right...but if so, I'd say that is due to Apple needing to push back the iMac G5 due to problems, NOT because it was their original intent to wait so long. Again, the eMac refresh seriously suggests that Apple's immediate plans were for a new iMac quite soon afterward.
As with many rumors, Apple DOES actually change their plans sometime. So if a new iMac isn't announced at WWDC, it does NOT mean everyone who said it would be was wrong, or intentionally lied. It just means that life is unpredictable, and sh*t happens. Then again...we live in a country where the masses don't understand the difference between someone "lying" and simply, unintentionally, being wrong. But that is an issue not for this forum...
"June is too early to roll out a consumer product that needs just the right amount of momentum entering the holiday buying season" - ThinkSecret
...wasn't the current flat-panel form factor introduced in January...way before any buying season, unless Apple punted on iMacs making popular Easter gifts Sounds to me like TS, right or wrong, is as guilty of baseless speculation on this (and other) counts as the sites it derides at the beginning of the article.
The only thing that doesn't make sense...if Apple knew that an iMac G5 was not going to be announced until toward the end of the year to hit the holiday season (as TS infers) then why wasn't the iMac G4 line refreshed at the same time the eMacs were?
The eMac uses a superior G4 chip with double the L2 cache.
The eMac uses a superior SuperDrive with 8x instead of 4x speed.
The eMac is @ 1.25 GHz, while the 15" iMac is only @ 1 GHz.
The eMac has a Radeon 9200 while the 15" iMac has an older GeForce4 MX.
Don't forget you can now get a Bluetooth package (module/keyboard/mouse) BTO on all desktops except the iMac. Just a tad suspicious don't you think?
...wasn't the current flat-panel form factor introduced in January...way before any buying season, unless Apple punted on iMacs making popular Easter gifts Sounds to me like TS, right or wrong, is as guilty of baseless speculation on this (and other) counts as the sites it derides at the beginning of the article.
Exactly, though admitedly I'm not constantly refreshing Time Canada's webpage in anticipation.
Apple may not have a G5 iMac at WWDC, but they will have a G5 iBox cube-like single-processor system with one or two slots.
I have a feeling Apple is going to kill the iMac. It has outlived it's usefulness and it's clear the eMac is a better seller. $1000-2000 isn't the consumer "budget" market anymore but the prosumer segment.
iBox or iCube is the next big thing. It might be an iMac in name only but really a Cube reborn.
Would Apple really anounce new displays without a product to go with them at a trade show? This doesn't make sense, it is worthy of a silent upgrade at best if it is not accompanied with a compatible product. They usually anounce them along side of the PowerMacs, but those were just released. This, along with the high price of the entry G5 PM and the discontinuation of the G4 PM's may point to a new product for the desktop line IF Apple is going to anounce new displays.
Would Apple really anounce new displays without a product to go with them at a trade show? This doesn't make sense, it is worthy of a silent upgrade at best if it is not accompanied with a compatible product. They usually anounce them along side of the PowerMacs, but those were just released. This, along with the high price of the entry G5 PM and the discontinuation of the G4 PM's may point to a new product for the desktop line IF Apple is going to anounce new displays.
Yes!
Four words: iBox. Display Sold Separately.
Apple needs new displays if it's going to resurrect a pizza-box styled or cube-styled compact Mac to match the styling. The iMac is doomed (as we know it).
They were discontinued? Why can I still configure and purchase them via the Apple Store and buy them from a number of local Apple retailers?
I don't know. I have a feeling SOMETHING, machine wise, is coming this WWDC. Although I can see them releasing displays by themselves it wouldn't be ideal. But I'm glad displays are confirmed. Something is wrong when I can buy a brand new display today that matches my 4-year old Cube.
They were discontinued? Why can I still configure and purchase them via the Apple Store and buy them from a number of local Apple retailers?
I don't know. I have a feeling SOMETHING, machine wise, is coming this WWDC. Although I can see them releasing displays by themselves it wouldn't be ideal. But I'm glad displays are confirmed. Something is wrong when I can buy a brand new display today that matches my 4-year old Cube.
Because even though the model has been discontinued, inventory still exists.
Because even though the model has been discontinued, inventory still exists.
Oh... my bad. See I thought Apple decided to "just" discontinue the PMG4s recently and I didn't hear about it. Discontinue as in, stop all sales. Yeah, I know about them being brought down a peg after the PMG5s were released. Ok.
It would be dumb to hold off releasing a new iMac till late fall just to try to cash in on the Christmas buying season. More important with new products is time to market. We are almost into July. To delay an introduction till early November would be to give up five months of increased sales on the hope of picking up a little more business at Christmas.
Better for Apple to introduce a refreshed iMac now and then refresh it slightly in November so they can plaster "NEW!" signs all over it. That would also give them several months of actual sales to work out manufacturing problems.
I doubt that Apple ever delays a viable product more than a short time in order to fit some Marketing schedule. When the engineering is done products get released. On the other hand, we have seen products announced at MWSF (for example) that didn't ship for several months.
New displays do not necessarily mean a headless iMac.
When word is that the new displays will be 20", 23" and 30" you are generally out of the market segment for lower priced computers.
One benefit of the AIO form of the iMac is that they can put 17" and 20" displays on them. The 20" would be similar, but the 17" provides for a lower price point, which is one of the goals. In addition, a headless iMac provides an opportunity for buyers to get a cheap & nasty generic display that provides no revenues for Apple.
Finally, a headless iMac does not generate the public excitement that a AIO design does. Headless? Just another "box" at CompUSA. It was the AIO form that made the cover of Time. Has there EVER been a headless box on the cover? Nope. Apple needs the AIO form to generate consumer excitement and provide the anticipated revenues.
Here they pretty much went out of their way to guarrantee no recordable DVD in powerbooks. Sure enough, the powerbooks got them. This was pretty much the turning point for Think Secret from becoming quite accurate to hit and miss most of the time.
Now they are at the point of predicting 1 new peice of hardware per year. Last year was the updated iPod (which quite a number of other rumour sites were reporting at the same time) and the displays this year.
Furthermore, predicting whats going to be released and what ISN'T are two totally different things, and the latter is far easier to do. Goodness me, no consumer products released during a developers conference? YOU DON'T SAY!!
I know this idea's been bandied about before, but they could make the headless iMac latch onto the back of the new Apple displays. If you size and shape it right, then from most angles, you don't even notice anything on the back, especially on larger monitors. Think of sticking a PowerBook on the back of a large LCD monitor. I'm sure Apple could make it look much nicer than any of the current computer-stuck-behind-the-screen computers out there.
And if you have a non-Apple display, the iMac could stand on its own, like a super-slim tower. Once again, imagine the PowerBook, but with a PS2-like vertical stand.
This way, Apple still gets the AIO look and convenience (and potential magazine cover photo) when someone buys all-Apple, but allows for more flexibility for the users. It also opens the door to users upgrading the display later on, and they'd be more likely to buy an Apple monitor because of the "backpacking" ability.
And what about lost revenue from people who end up buying a non-Apple monitor? Pricing structure. Say, for the sake of argument, that the iMac is worth around $999. Apple would sell it for that price, as long as you also bought an Apple display at the same time, but jack the price up if you bought it by itself. Of course, you have to market it properly...
In ads and the Apple main page, you say:
The new iMac, starting at $999*
*With the purchase of an Apple display
In the Apple Store, you say:
Base iMac: $1149
Discount when buying Apple display: $150
Apple does promotions like this all the time... this would just be a permanent promotion. This way, if people don't buy an Apple display, Apple still gets money from it. But since it's worded this way, it's not perceived as a penalty or a premium... rather, you get a discount when you buy more Apple stuff. A very common marketing tactic in many markets.
By the way, assuming BlueTooth keyboard and mouse, and AirPort networking, this computer would have a single cable involved: The power cord. Nothing else, And you could carry the display and computer around as one unit. But you still have the option of upgrading the monitor in the future.
Plus, if the owner of this computer wanted to upgrade to a (much higher margin) PowerMac later on, the barrier to entry is now much lower. Since they already have an Apple display, they can buy the PowerMac by itself, without having to worry about dropping an extra $1000 for a display to go with it. This could be a big deal to fence-sitters, not sure whether to stick with a mid-range computer or to go for the high-end.
Comments
The only thing that doesn't make sense...if Apple knew that an iMac G5 was not going to be announced until toward the end of the year to hit the holiday season (as TS infers) then why wasn't the iMac G4 line refreshed at the same time the eMacs were?
The eMac uses a superior G4 chip with double the L2 cache.
The eMac uses a superior SuperDrive with 8x instead of 4x speed.
The eMac is @ 1.25 GHz, while the 15" iMac is only @ 1 GHz.
The eMac has a Radeon 9200 while the 15" iMac has an older GeForce4 MX.
I simply can't imagine that Apple knew there would be no new iMac G5 until Q4 of this year, and yet left the iMac G4 line (especially the 15") in such disarray. If Apple had dropped the iMac price, it would be acceptable. But the iMac's ridiculous pricing compared to the eMac, with lesser technology being used, is simply outrageous. Apple does not deserve to be selling any iMacs right now...at a $300 to $1300 premium over the eMac. Sorry..the flat panels simply don't warrant that price differential.
So in this case, it seems counter-intuitive that no new iMac is coming anytime soon. TS could be right...but if so, I'd say that is due to Apple needing to push back the iMac G5 due to problems, NOT because it was their original intent to wait so long. Again, the eMac refresh seriously suggests that Apple's immediate plans were for a new iMac quite soon afterward.
As with many rumors, Apple DOES actually change their plans sometime. So if a new iMac isn't announced at WWDC, it does NOT mean everyone who said it would be was wrong, or intentionally lied. It just means that life is unpredictable, and sh*t happens. Then again...we live in a country where the masses don't understand the difference between someone "lying" and simply, unintentionally, being wrong. But that is an issue not for this forum...
-- Ensoniq
...wasn't the current flat-panel form factor introduced in January...way before any buying season, unless Apple punted on iMacs making popular Easter gifts
J.
Originally posted by Rhumgod
My ass it was. It was after the fact. See here.
And gee...wasn't that where the G5's were announced?
Sounds like they announced something HUGE without a live webcast then. Why not now?
as
Originally posted by Ensoniq
The only thing that doesn't make sense...if Apple knew that an iMac G5 was not going to be announced until toward the end of the year to hit the holiday season (as TS infers) then why wasn't the iMac G4 line refreshed at the same time the eMacs were?
The eMac uses a superior G4 chip with double the L2 cache.
The eMac uses a superior SuperDrive with 8x instead of 4x speed.
The eMac is @ 1.25 GHz, while the 15" iMac is only @ 1 GHz.
The eMac has a Radeon 9200 while the 15" iMac has an older GeForce4 MX.
Don't forget you can now get a Bluetooth package (module/keyboard/mouse) BTO on all desktops except the iMac. Just a tad suspicious don't you think?
Originally posted by James Cocker
...wasn't the current flat-panel form factor introduced in January...way before any buying season, unless Apple punted on iMacs making popular Easter gifts
Exactly, though admitedly I'm not constantly refreshing Time Canada's webpage in anticipation.
I have a feeling Apple is going to kill the iMac. It has outlived it's usefulness and it's clear the eMac is a better seller. $1000-2000 isn't the consumer "budget" market anymore but the prosumer segment.
iBox or iCube is the next big thing. It might be an iMac in name only but really a Cube reborn.
Originally posted by JCG
Would Apple really anounce new displays without a product to go with them at a trade show? This doesn't make sense, it is worthy of a silent upgrade at best if it is not accompanied with a compatible product. They usually anounce them along side of the PowerMacs, but those were just released. This, along with the high price of the entry G5 PM and the discontinuation of the G4 PM's may point to a new product for the desktop line IF Apple is going to anounce new displays.
Yes!
Four words: iBox. Display Sold Separately.
Apple needs new displays if it's going to resurrect a pizza-box styled or cube-styled compact Mac to match the styling. The iMac is doomed (as we know it).
Originally posted by JCG
... and the discontinuation of the G4 PM's
They were discontinued? Why can I still configure and purchase them via the Apple Store and buy them from a number of local Apple retailers?
I don't know. I have a feeling SOMETHING, machine wise, is coming this WWDC. Although I can see them releasing displays by themselves it wouldn't be ideal. But I'm glad displays are confirmed. Something is wrong when I can buy a brand new display today that matches my 4-year old Cube.
Originally posted by IonYz
They were discontinued? Why can I still configure and purchase them via the Apple Store and buy them from a number of local Apple retailers?
I don't know. I have a feeling SOMETHING, machine wise, is coming this WWDC. Although I can see them releasing displays by themselves it wouldn't be ideal. But I'm glad displays are confirmed. Something is wrong when I can buy a brand new display today that matches my 4-year old Cube.
Because even though the model has been discontinued, inventory still exists.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Because even though the model has been discontinued, inventory still exists.
Oh... my bad. See I thought Apple decided to "just" discontinue the PMG4s recently and I didn't hear about it. Discontinue as in, stop all sales. Yeah, I know about them being brought down a peg after the PMG5s were released. Ok.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=517
It would be dumb to hold off releasing a new iMac till late fall just to try to cash in on the Christmas buying season. More important with new products is time to market. We are almost into July. To delay an introduction till early November would be to give up five months of increased sales on the hope of picking up a little more business at Christmas.
Better for Apple to introduce a refreshed iMac now and then refresh it slightly in November so they can plaster "NEW!" signs all over it. That would also give them several months of actual sales to work out manufacturing problems.
I doubt that Apple ever delays a viable product more than a short time in order to fit some Marketing schedule. When the engineering is done products get released. On the other hand, we have seen products announced at MWSF (for example) that didn't ship for several months.
When word is that the new displays will be 20", 23" and 30" you are generally out of the market segment for lower priced computers.
One benefit of the AIO form of the iMac is that they can put 17" and 20" displays on them. The 20" would be similar, but the 17" provides for a lower price point, which is one of the goals. In addition, a headless iMac provides an opportunity for buyers to get a cheap & nasty generic display that provides no revenues for Apple.
Finally, a headless iMac does not generate the public excitement that a AIO design does. Headless? Just another "box" at CompUSA. It was the AIO form that made the cover of Time. Has there EVER been a headless box on the cover? Nope. Apple needs the AIO form to generate consumer excitement and provide the anticipated revenues.
My money is on an AIO form.
Originally posted by Flounder
I personally don't recall TS ever being wrong when they said something definetly WASN'T coming
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/nov5portables.html
Here they pretty much went out of their way to guarrantee no recordable DVD in powerbooks. Sure enough, the powerbooks got them. This was pretty much the turning point for Think Secret from becoming quite accurate to hit and miss most of the time.
Now they are at the point of predicting 1 new peice of hardware per year. Last year was the updated iPod (which quite a number of other rumour sites were reporting at the same time) and the displays this year.
Furthermore, predicting whats going to be released and what ISN'T are two totally different things, and the latter is far easier to do. Goodness me, no consumer products released during a developers conference? YOU DON'T SAY!!
And if you have a non-Apple display, the iMac could stand on its own, like a super-slim tower. Once again, imagine the PowerBook, but with a PS2-like vertical stand.
This way, Apple still gets the AIO look and convenience (and potential magazine cover photo) when someone buys all-Apple, but allows for more flexibility for the users. It also opens the door to users upgrading the display later on, and they'd be more likely to buy an Apple monitor because of the "backpacking" ability.
And what about lost revenue from people who end up buying a non-Apple monitor? Pricing structure. Say, for the sake of argument, that the iMac is worth around $999. Apple would sell it for that price, as long as you also bought an Apple display at the same time, but jack the price up if you bought it by itself. Of course, you have to market it properly...
In ads and the Apple main page, you say:
The new iMac, starting at $999*
*With the purchase of an Apple display
In the Apple Store, you say:
Base iMac: $1149
Discount when buying Apple display: $150
Apple does promotions like this all the time... this would just be a permanent promotion. This way, if people don't buy an Apple display, Apple still gets money from it. But since it's worded this way, it's not perceived as a penalty or a premium... rather, you get a discount when you buy more Apple stuff. A very common marketing tactic in many markets.
By the way, assuming BlueTooth keyboard and mouse, and AirPort networking, this computer would have a single cable involved: The power cord. Nothing else, And you could carry the display and computer around as one unit. But you still have the option of upgrading the monitor in the future.
Plus, if the owner of this computer wanted to upgrade to a (much higher margin) PowerMac later on, the barrier to entry is now much lower. Since they already have an Apple display, they can buy the PowerMac by itself, without having to worry about dropping an extra $1000 for a display to go with it. This could be a big deal to fence-sitters, not sure whether to stick with a mid-range computer or to go for the high-end.
So its no real surprise they won't here either.
The iMac is a turd right now.
But hey, if Apple wants to keep selling it as it, go right ahead.
I think the discount would be on the display, not the computer. New xMac $1099, with $200 off any display purchased at same time.
Or, "Buy any xMac + Display and get $200 back by mail!"