you know, common man, you were quickly becoming one of my least favorite humans on earth until i clicked through your profile, checked your birthdate and did the f'n math.
you can rail against the communist machine WHEN YOU ARE OLD ENOUGH TO FRIGGIN' VOTE. common "man" my ass... my recently deceased war veteran father would bitch-slap you just for talking out of turn, boy.
man, they'll let anyone on the internet these days.
One thing that Michael Moore's film does well is it humanizes the war. Fahrenheit 9/11 shows us the human toll exacted by oft-repeated euphemisms like "surgical strikes" and "collateral damage." We see grieving Iraqi widows, distraught Iraqi men cleaning up the human carnage from a night of bombing, and mangled Iraqi children. We almost don't need to be told that over 9000 other civilians perished during the conflict-- and continue to die every day. The scenes seem representative enough to make his point efficiently.
And then there's Lila Lipscombe, amputee veterans, adrenaline-fueled soldiers that get a kick out of killing, and solemn soldiers who get sick from killing. Moore puts a face on the consequences of war, cutting through the vague notion of "challenges ahead" that Mr. Bush often repeats. Is it worth it?
I just came back from watching Fahrenheit 911 (2000 seat theater packed to the gills for all 3 showings today). It was good....but as I suspected, he wimped out and left out the really bizarre and grotesque stuff about 9-11, the literally hundreds upon hundreds of well-documented anomalies and inconsistencies that make the official version of the day of 9-11 sound like some wild-eyed conspiracy theory/fairy story of the unlikeliest kind. But unfortunately, nobody mainstream dares venture there, yet.
and btw, Cheney's energy panel discussions, and top secret side meetings will remain secret.
Were you planning on adding anything? Or are you just here to boost that websites hit count? Or maybe you didn't comment because you're not really sure who Leni Riefenstahl is.
According to exit surveys in about 15 cities, 91 percent of respondents gave the film an "excellent" rating, while 93 percent said they would "definitely recommend" the film -- tallies that Ortenberg said were the best he had ever seen
You ARE sitting over a huge blob of oil. That's for starters. All oil is priced in dollars, hence the word 'petrodollar.' For someone to trade in energy, they need dollars, and when oil is pumped out of the ground a unique magic trick is created. Inflation-free money is created and pumped into the US economy. Even if it's Saudis selling oil to the French someone had to get hold of dollars. There ain't anything else super-special about America. It's easier to be a millionaire in America, and it's not your fucking tax system that makes it so.
...
Interesting point. There has been a lot of talk over the last couple of years that some oil would start being priced in Euros. That could have enormous consequences for the US.
Michael Moore is being taken to task for blatant omissions in his Fahrenheit 9-11 documentary:
QUESTIONS FOR MICHAEL MOORE!
MoveOn Org is hosting a National Online Town Meeting with Michael Moore to raise voter consciousness for the next election. This online meeting is NOT open to everyone with a computer. You must make arrangements to attend one of the pre-planned gatherings. The list of locations, about 2000 nation wide, can be found at http://action.moveonpac.org/f911/
I encourage people to participate because "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a powerful antiwar statement and needs to be supported for that reason. This coming election, we need to vote out the warhawks, both Republican and Democrat.
I you are able to attend, I would like to ask you to join me in praising Michael Moore's talents as a film maker, and then respectfully and politely asking Michael Moore a few questions.
Question 1: If the Saudis were behind 9-11, why didn't they leave the United States BEFORE the attack? It is an established fact that companies like Odigo received an advance warning of the 9-11 attacks before the hijacked planes had even left the ground, as reported in Ha'Aretz and the Washington Post. If the Saudis were behind 9-11 and were kind enough to warn Odigo, then why did they themselves wait until AFTER the attacks before they left, when the requirement for special permission from Bush would only call attention to their departure?
Question 3: Is Michael Moore aware that just ten days after 9-11, the FBI stated (and CNN reported) that the 9-11 perpetrators were using skillfully made fake IDs with identities stolen from Arab men?
Question 4: Is Michael Moore aware that FBI Director Robert Mueller has admitted in public that there is actually no evidence that proves the named 9-11 hijackers were actually on the aircraft?
Question 5: Calling attention to the Anthrax letters case, in which letters which appeared to to be written by Arab Muslims contained Anthrax spores identified as coming from a US Government laboratory. Is Michael Moore aware that neither of the two suspects in the case, Dr. Stephen Hatfill or Dr.Philip Zack, are Arabs, and doesn't this case prove that Arabs are being framed for terror attacks in the United States?
Quote:
Bacteria "came from US government lab"
London Times
November 22, 2001
Bacteria "came from US government lab"
The anthrax attacks in America are "almost certainly" derived from a US government laboratory, a scientist says. "I'm a New Yorker," said Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, chairman of the Federation of American Scientists' working group on biological weapons. "My city has been attacked, first by foreign terrorists, then by an American using a biological agent." Rosenberg was representing one of a number of arms control groups that urged a 144-nation conference in Geneva to tighten restrictions on germ warfare in the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. The anthrax used in letters sent to addresses in New York City, Florida and Washington, "was derived, almost certainly, from a US defence laboratory," said Ms Rosenberg. She said the anthrax attacks "demonstrated the incredible potency" of using disease as a weapon but was only a small taste of what is possible". Four people have died as a result of the toxin.
Michael Moore rightly condemns the US Government for the USAPATRIOT act's draconian assault opon our rights. However, one of those rights as that nobody shall be declared guilty of a crime without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. As Michael Moore professes a deep respect for American values, he should not glibly declare that someone is guilty of a crime without being able to make his case beyond that reasonable doubt.
There is a reasonable doubt.
And if Michael Moore is a reasonable man who respects American principles, he must acknowledge that.
Geez, nothing I wasn't aware of already, just condensed into an in your face (but well made) documentary.
It just saddens me that although I am not a conservative, that the torch-bearers of conservatism seem to always be evil-doers who do a great job trumping up God, Country, and Freedom and who behind the scenes just make cash and power grabs. Must be a bummer to be a conservative with integrity these days.
I left the theater thinking that Satan must spend most of his time these days perparing the additional space needed for the incoming class of the damned.
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Nick
You missed out the fact that although 9-11 is the week's largest grossing movie, ahead of all the feature movies...9-11 was being shown on only 800 screens nationwide, compared to the competition, the Hollywood feature movies, which not only grossed less but also were being shown on an average of 3 times as many screens, some 2500 nationwide
Although I do predict that like non-mainstream rockbands with a solid following whose fans line up to buy the album as soon as its released, 9-11's big opening splash will not last as long as that of a regular feature movie. The F9-11 response I reckon will be like that of the X-Files movie...a big start and a quick tail off. But as with all documentaries, there will be showings in small theaters etc as it makes its way through the smaller towns of America.
Here's a good read: A conservative's critique of Fahrenheit 911:
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Nick
What's your point, Nick? No film of that nature has ever been as successful. When talking about documentaries, it's entirely appropriate to evaluate it as financially successful if it makes more money than any previous documentary. Comparing films in different genres is worthwhile-- but you're saying a film's financial success only matters when compared to films in general.
Comments
Originally posted by Common Man
The media bias towards this movie is criminal! Moore should be prosecuted for treason. This type of film has no place, especially in times of war.
http://www.chronicallybiased.com/index.php?itemid=600
you know, common man, you were quickly becoming one of my least favorite humans on earth until i clicked through your profile, checked your birthdate and did the f'n math.
you can rail against the communist machine WHEN YOU ARE OLD ENOUGH TO FRIGGIN' VOTE. common "man" my ass... my recently deceased war veteran father would bitch-slap you just for talking out of turn, boy.
man, they'll let anyone on the internet these days.
Originally posted by Existence
What do you think the average Joe/Jane BlubberPack will think when they see this movie?
Wobble violently...
Blubberpack!
And then there's Lila Lipscombe, amputee veterans, adrenaline-fueled soldiers that get a kick out of killing, and solemn soldiers who get sick from killing. Moore puts a face on the consequences of war, cutting through the vague notion of "challenges ahead" that Mr. Bush often repeats. Is it worth it?
http://www.chronicallybiased.com/index.php?itemid=588
Originally posted by sammi jo
I just came back from watching Fahrenheit 911 (2000 seat theater packed to the gills for all 3 showings today). It was good....but as I suspected, he wimped out and left out the really bizarre and grotesque stuff about 9-11, the literally hundreds upon hundreds of well-documented anomalies and inconsistencies that make the official version of the day of 9-11 sound like some wild-eyed conspiracy theory/fairy story of the unlikeliest kind. But unfortunately, nobody mainstream dares venture there, yet.
and btw, Cheney's energy panel discussions, and top secret side meetings will remain secret.
what was left out?
Originally posted by Common Man
Moore and the Democrats
http://www.chronicallybiased.com/index.php?itemid=588
Were you planning on adding anything? Or are you just here to boost that websites hit count? Or maybe you didn't comment because you're not really sure who Leni Riefenstahl is.
Originally posted by burningwheel
what was left out?
All of the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories?
Originally posted by Scott
All of the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories?
Hmm?!
Scott on 'Anti-Semitism"?
it is almost like he protesteth too much about this issue. WHat lurks below that Euro cranium?
or better yet: Yawn....
According to exit surveys in about 15 cities, 91 percent of respondents gave the film an "excellent" rating, while 93 percent said they would "definitely recommend" the film -- tallies that Ortenberg said were the best he had ever seen
FYI, F911 was edited entirely on Macs using FCP.
Originally posted by Harald
...
You ARE sitting over a huge blob of oil. That's for starters. All oil is priced in dollars, hence the word 'petrodollar.' For someone to trade in energy, they need dollars, and when oil is pumped out of the ground a unique magic trick is created. Inflation-free money is created and pumped into the US economy. Even if it's Saudis selling oil to the French someone had to get hold of dollars. There ain't anything else super-special about America. It's easier to be a millionaire in America, and it's not your fucking tax system that makes it so.
...
Interesting point. There has been a lot of talk over the last couple of years that some oil would start being priced in Euros. That could have enormous consequences for the US.
Originally posted by burningwheel
what was left out?
Soon......
But meanwhile:
Michael Moore is being taken to task for blatant omissions in his Fahrenheit 9-11 documentary:
QUESTIONS FOR MICHAEL MOORE!
MoveOn Org is hosting a National Online Town Meeting with Michael Moore to raise voter consciousness for the next election. This online meeting is NOT open to everyone with a computer. You must make arrangements to attend one of the pre-planned gatherings. The list of locations, about 2000 nation wide, can be found at http://action.moveonpac.org/f911/
I encourage people to participate because "Fahrenheit 9/11" is a powerful antiwar statement and needs to be supported for that reason. This coming election, we need to vote out the warhawks, both Republican and Democrat.
I you are able to attend, I would like to ask you to join me in praising Michael Moore's talents as a film maker, and then respectfully and politely asking Michael Moore a few questions.
Question 1: If the Saudis were behind 9-11, why didn't they leave the United States BEFORE the attack? It is an established fact that companies like Odigo received an advance warning of the 9-11 attacks before the hijacked planes had even left the ground, as reported in Ha'Aretz and the Washington Post. If the Saudis were behind 9-11 and were kind enough to warn Odigo, then why did they themselves wait until AFTER the attacks before they left, when the requirement for special permission from Bush would only call attention to their departure?
http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2...ost092801.html
Question 2: Is Michael Moore aware that the video tape of Osama "confessing" to 9-11 has been proven a fake?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
Question 3: Is Michael Moore aware that just ten days after 9-11, the FBI stated (and CNN reported) that the 9-11 perpetrators were using skillfully made fake IDs with identities stolen from Arab men?
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/21/inv.id.theft/
Question 4: Is Michael Moore aware that FBI Director Robert Mueller has admitted in public that there is actually no evidence that proves the named 9-11 hijackers were actually on the aircraft?
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Con...DENCE-LINK.htm
Question 5: Calling attention to the Anthrax letters case, in which letters which appeared to to be written by Arab Muslims contained Anthrax spores identified as coming from a US Government laboratory. Is Michael Moore aware that neither of the two suspects in the case, Dr. Stephen Hatfill or Dr.Philip Zack, are Arabs, and doesn't this case prove that Arabs are being framed for terror attacks in the United States?
Bacteria "came from US government lab"
London Times
November 22, 2001
Bacteria "came from US government lab"
The anthrax attacks in America are "almost certainly" derived from a US government laboratory, a scientist says. "I'm a New Yorker," said Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, chairman of the Federation of American Scientists' working group on biological weapons. "My city has been attacked, first by foreign terrorists, then by an American using a biological agent." Rosenberg was representing one of a number of arms control groups that urged a 144-nation conference in Geneva to tighten restrictions on germ warfare in the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. The anthrax used in letters sent to addresses in New York City, Florida and Washington, "was derived, almost certainly, from a US defence laboratory," said Ms Rosenberg. She said the anthrax attacks "demonstrated the incredible potency" of using disease as a weapon but was only a small taste of what is possible". Four people have died as a result of the toxin.
Michael Moore rightly condemns the US Government for the USAPATRIOT act's draconian assault opon our rights. However, one of those rights as that nobody shall be declared guilty of a crime without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. As Michael Moore professes a deep respect for American values, he should not glibly declare that someone is guilty of a crime without being able to make his case beyond that reasonable doubt.
There is a reasonable doubt.
And if Michael Moore is a reasonable man who respects American principles, he must acknowledge that.
Geez, nothing I wasn't aware of already, just condensed into an in your face (but well made) documentary.
It just saddens me that although I am not a conservative, that the torch-bearers of conservatism seem to always be evil-doers who do a great job trumping up God, Country, and Freedom and who behind the scenes just make cash and power grabs. Must be a bummer to be a conservative with integrity these days.
I left the theater thinking that Satan must spend most of his time these days perparing the additional space needed for the incoming class of the damned.
God! I really want to see this film!
It sounds like the truth really is out there.
Originally posted by a_greer
this will go down like the liberal radio network,
big media push -> low numbers, <15m open -> media screaming about the success of this "truth seeker"
Whoops. Seems you're dead wrong.
Originally posted by Existence
Whoops. Seems you're dead wrong.
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Nick
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Nick
You missed out the fact that although 9-11 is the week's largest grossing movie, ahead of all the feature movies...9-11 was being shown on only 800 screens nationwide, compared to the competition, the Hollywood feature movies, which not only grossed less but also were being shown on an average of 3 times as many screens, some 2500 nationwide
Although I do predict that like non-mainstream rockbands with a solid following whose fans line up to buy the album as soon as its released, 9-11's big opening splash will not last as long as that of a regular feature movie. The F9-11 response I reckon will be like that of the X-Files movie...a big start and a quick tail off. But as with all documentaries, there will be showings in small theaters etc as it makes its way through the smaller towns of America.
Here's a good read: A conservative's critique of Fahrenheit 911:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/grigg-w1.html
I have not looked at it yet, but you can guess the nature of the website by its name.
I would love to see Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore duking it out in MTV's Celebrity Death Match...
IMHO both of them are blowhards.
Originally posted by trumptman
Actually I would put him at dead pretty close to right. The only reason this movie is "breaking records" is because it is listed as a documentary. It also opened on a record number of screens for a documentary. It opened on almost 400% more screens than any of Moore's previous films.
If you take the same numbers and look at it in the context of general films, it is hardly impressive at all. Box Office Mojo has it ranked as the 19th biggest opening film all year. It was beat by films like Scooby Doo 2 and Starsky and Hutch for example. Passion of the Christ, which Fahrenheit is frequently compared to in terms of having little to no marketing, lots of buzz, and needing distribution help, did almost $84 million it's opening weekend.
Most films do their biggest business the first weekend and then fall off dramatically. Drops of 25-50% are very common. If it does $14-15 million next week,(35% drop off) that would be pretty good.
Now consider the real competition it has this week. (In otherwords, not White Chicks)
Spiderman 2, I suspect Spiderman 2 might do even better than the $114+ million that the first movie did. We are talking about Fahrenheit being buried by $100+ million if it even stays in second place.
Nick
What's your point, Nick? No film of that nature has ever been as successful. When talking about documentaries, it's entirely appropriate to evaluate it as financially successful if it makes more money than any previous documentary. Comparing films in different genres is worthwhile-- but you're saying a film's financial success only matters when compared to films in general.
Edit: Removed bad metaphor.