There's a $100 rebate for the 700 mhz combo eMac right now, ends December 28th. Any bets on whether there are new eMac computers on the horizon come MWSF?
Would like to see 867 and 1 ghz eMacs, after the surprise 1 ghz of the Powerbook, going 933 mhz would seem like a cop-out. Time to get out of the sub-ghz basement.
My bet: Apple will rebate these for a while, then just lower the price. If apple is really trying to get the e-segment back with this model, that is. Even at 900 bucks, school administrators (with tightening budgets due to the economy) will surely be looking at 399 pc's with 100 dollar monitors.
I see why the CRT eMac exists, but a screenless eMac Lite would be very sensible, even though it would look bloody silly with a beige monitor.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is actually a very sensible thought. Maybe wrap it up in a small cubic kind of recipient, and call it ecube (although that would be taunting the gods). Maybe a small emac-like tower without screen. A very good idea, they could probably squeeze one out, at a very low end, for 500 dollars or even less. (but no superdrive, and hardly a combo).700 mhz G4 (G3 even?).
If one of these two models doesn't do it for you, then buy a $400 POS Wintel box and get the hell off the Mac platform. You're diluting the gene pool.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Aren't we feeling elite today. What good does such a remark, mr. Ensign? If I were your mom, I'd send you to your room, just about now.
Think of the inherent goodness of a screenless eMac. It involves more than just pricing. You might fairly well revamp one of them fairly old (>5 years) 20 or more inch beige CRT screens, which are still more than quite sufficient, but no longer belong in the same room as a windhole surfer G4 tower (seeing as all other macs come with screens these days).
I really don't think it's such a bad thing to disconnect the screen-computer thing for the cheaper consumer lines again, at least in one model. I have never digged the idea of a crt built-in iMac, or even an LCD fixed iMac. I have always considered it one of the advantages of a desktop comp, the fact that you could freely choose your screen with it, matching your present budget, or being the legacy of a previous comp, or a gift from a designer uncle or whatever (I am, however, a former powerbook, now ibook, and soon again powerbook user).
It's as the man says: monitors a-go-go, but no comping hardware that matches todays specs. So purchasing computers for a school means either buyng just new towers, or throwing out all the old monitors and buying a load of eMacs? I think, as a principal, my choice would be clear. (even supposing I'd be a macloving principal).
Since now the eMac started out as a true 'education' mac, education should be given the choice.
I think it is a VERY good idea, actually, and it pains me to see that the brainless fundamentalism of some wannabe maclovers obfuscates that. Is using a mac only about showing how much you can pay for a comp, mr. Ensign?
It's as the man says: monitors a-go-go, but no comping hardware that matches todays specs. So purchasing computers for a school means either buyng just new towers, or throwing out all the old monitors and buying a load of eMacs? I think, as a principal, my choice would be clear. (even supposing I'd be a macloving principal). <hr></blockquote>
The total appeal of the eMac for education is that it does include the monitor. This makes is fit in a smaller space and is easier to maintain. There are less wires and less chances for stuff to come unplugged. Apple already sells a low end Power Mac at 1299 for education. If anything they should just lower the price on that to 1199 or 1099.
Why waste a lot of R&D on a low end computer that will be exactly the same as a Dell PC. The eMac's unique style is what makes it appealing. A school on the cheap can allows by a 799 iMac.
Computer sales are soft throughout the industry. Apple is just trying to get some more sales with year end discounts. They do it every year, by the way, regardless of whether new models are on tap or not. No new eMac until next MWSF.
I don't know what Ensign Arshole's problem is, but the topic is the eMacs and possible new models. I think pricing is a much more important factor for the marketing of these machines if they are really trying to gain share(which they claim to want in this segment). Although I would be happy for all the children if they could use 800 Mhz eMacs instead of 700 Mhz, it doesn't matter what speed apple makes them if they aren't being bought by the school administrators. School administrators in this economic climate only care about the bottom line. I am not waving a windows banner here, but let's be realistic about this machine and it's potential. I think it beats the pants off wintel opposition if they bring the price down. A 700 Mhz with 17 inch monitor for 850 (edu price) is a hard sell compared to 399 2 Ghz. And it still is if you bump the speed to 1 Ghz.
Aren't we feeling elite today. What good does such a remark, mr. Ensign? If I were your mom, I'd send you to your room, just about now.
Is using a mac only about showing how much you can pay for a comp, mr. Ensign?
<hr></blockquote>
The whole populist/elitist split personality of the Mac platform is well documented. The Mac could have been a true populist machine had things been done in differently in the 80's, but they weren't, and for better or worse the Mac became an elitist machine in the 90's.
What Steve Jobs as done in the last five years is realize this basic fact, and more importantly, stopped apologizing for it.
The OS X and iApp experience is not possible on a $500 machine. A $500 headless G3 Mac hooked up to your brother's old beige ViewSonic CRT is not the user experience Steve has in mind.
I've been broke and reasonably well-off at different points in my life, but I've always been happy to pay extra for my Mac. If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
As far as the value of a headless Mac in the education market goes, read jante99's post. He nailed it.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but you guys are just wishing for something that's never going to happen.
The whole populist/elitist split personality of the Mac platform is well documented. The Mac could have been a true populist machine had things been done in differently in the 80's, but they weren't, and for better or worse the Mac became an elitist machine in the 90's.
What Steve Jobs as done in the last five years is realize this basic fact, and more importantly, stopped apologizing for it.
The OS X and iApp experience is not possible on a $500 machine. A $500 headless G3 Mac hooked up to your brother's old beige ViewSonic CRT is not the user experience Steve has in mind.
I've been broke and reasonably well-off at different points in my life, but I've always been happy to pay extra for my Mac. If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
As far as the value of a headless Mac in the education market goes, read jante99's post. He nailed it.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but you guys are just wishing for something that's never going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's great to see another poster like this. Apple's perfect . I can't wait til Matsu reads that post.
<strong>My bet: Apple will rebate these for a while, then just lower the price. If apple is really trying to get the e-segment back with this model, that is. Even at 900 bucks, school administrators (with tightening budgets due to the economy) will surely be looking at 399 pc's with 100 dollar monitors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where can you find a $399 PC? I just went to Dell and priced out (home pricing, could not seem to get to the educational pricing) a basically equivalent machine to the eMac (with and without monitor).
$707 w/out monitor
$867 w/monitor (w/ a DECENT monitor, not the standard crap Dell defaults with.)
Granted Dell offers you a ton more options for configuration. But in an institutional environment I would guess they are likely to pick a single standard configuration anyway.
When is everyone going to learn you don't get something for nothing. Dell has always (and always will) attempt to compare (pardon the pun) apples and oranges. They will not directly compare, feature for feature, same quality components, etc. and then price it. You'll find that the pricing is fairly comparable to what Apple offers. Look at that $867 price.
Apple doesn't offer nearly the flexibility of configuration that Dell will. And that is a selling point for Dell. But when we start to package similarly equiped machines, we find the pricing isn't all that different.
P.S. Plus you can get an all-in-one eMac...fewer cables...less space...less power (the Dell COMPUTER itself uses 200 watts vs. 170 watts for the eMac. That doesn't count the monitor. Issues like power DO cost money too.)
I'm not saying that Apple is always better. I'm only saying the issue of cost is generally not nearly as simple as it is often made out to be.
Eman, no one is perfect, apple isnt, im not, you arent, no other computer company is, BUT i think he has a pretty strong grasp on the reality of the situation.
The mac platform is a different experience that that of the winblows world. Apple spends alot of money on R&D in hardware and software and there business structure differs from that of Dell for example. On top of that, Apple wants to maintain the great mac experience, and they have made a good business out of offering the different options that are currently available. Apple cant and wont offer a sub $500 P.O.S. for low income homes, low budget schools, and cheap people.
I hate to use a cliche, but there is a reason BMW doesn't offer cheap peace of sh1ts. They make top quality cars that you have to pay a premium for. No one is banging down their door to build a low-end car cause you can go out and buy a new Kia for 10 g's. Theyre just not gonna do it. Get over it.
As for the eMac, I'm expecting an update and a price drop. The iMac tends to follow the PowerBook, and the eMac uses the iMac's board and I/O devices, so look to the latest revision for hints.
As far as education goes, a headless eMac is appealing from a purely economical perspective, but that's it. From the point of view of designing the machines for actual use, the eMac wins hands down: It's compact, more or less childproof, and easy to secure and maintain. Going headless defeats almost all of those advantages.
Give the $399 machines one semester and see how they do. You get what you pay for, and you don't have to pay that much more to get something built for education.
Comments
700Mhz G4 eMac (Educational only)
800Mhz G4 eMac
933Mhz G4 eMac
But more than not, The Xserve is going to be upgraded to dual 1.25 or faster. for sure
<strong>Or they may be looking at 399 PC's to use with monitors they already own.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see why the CRT eMac exists, but a screenless eMac Lite would be very sensible, even though it would look bloody silly with a beige monitor.
<strong>
I see why the CRT eMac exists, but a screenless eMac Lite would be very sensible, even though it would look bloody silly with a beige monitor.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is actually a very sensible thought. Maybe wrap it up in a small cubic kind of recipient, and call it ecube (although that would be taunting the gods). Maybe a small emac-like tower without screen. A very good idea, they could probably squeeze one out, at a very low end, for 500 dollars or even less. (but no superdrive, and hardly a combo).700 mhz G4 (G3 even?).
867/128/40/gForce4MX32/Combo $999
1GHz/256/60/gForce4MX64/Superdrive $1,299
If one of these two models doesn't do it for you, then buy a $400 POS Wintel box and get the hell off the Mac platform. You're diluting the gene pool.
BTW, MrBill, can I consider your sig. an homage?
<strong>eMacs at MWSF:
867/128/40/gForce4MX32/Combo $999
1GHz/256/60/gForce4MX64/Superdrive $1,299
If one of these two models doesn't do it for you, then buy a $400 POS Wintel box and get the hell off the Mac platform. You're diluting the gene pool.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why? Is it so unreasonable to want Apple to have a lower priced Mac which could possibly help more people buy Macs and expanding marketshare?
<strong>
If one of these two models doesn't do it for you, then buy a $400 POS Wintel box and get the hell off the Mac platform. You're diluting the gene pool.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Aren't we feeling elite today. What good does such a remark, mr. Ensign? If I were your mom, I'd send you to your room, just about now.
Think of the inherent goodness of a screenless eMac. It involves more than just pricing. You might fairly well revamp one of them fairly old (>5 years) 20 or more inch beige CRT screens, which are still more than quite sufficient, but no longer belong in the same room as a windhole surfer G4 tower (seeing as all other macs come with screens these days).
I really don't think it's such a bad thing to disconnect the screen-computer thing for the cheaper consumer lines again, at least in one model. I have never digged the idea of a crt built-in iMac, or even an LCD fixed iMac. I have always considered it one of the advantages of a desktop comp, the fact that you could freely choose your screen with it, matching your present budget, or being the legacy of a previous comp, or a gift from a designer uncle or whatever (I am, however, a former powerbook, now ibook, and soon again powerbook user).
It's as the man says: monitors a-go-go, but no comping hardware that matches todays specs. So purchasing computers for a school means either buyng just new towers, or throwing out all the old monitors and buying a load of eMacs? I think, as a principal, my choice would be clear. (even supposing I'd be a macloving principal).
Since now the eMac started out as a true 'education' mac, education should be given the choice.
I think it is a VERY good idea, actually, and it pains me to see that the brainless fundamentalism of some wannabe maclovers obfuscates that. Is using a mac only about showing how much you can pay for a comp, mr. Ensign?
[ 11-22-2002: Message edited by: der Kopf ]</p>
It's as the man says: monitors a-go-go, but no comping hardware that matches todays specs. So purchasing computers for a school means either buyng just new towers, or throwing out all the old monitors and buying a load of eMacs? I think, as a principal, my choice would be clear. (even supposing I'd be a macloving principal). <hr></blockquote>
The total appeal of the eMac for education is that it does include the monitor. This makes is fit in a smaller space and is easier to maintain. There are less wires and less chances for stuff to come unplugged. Apple already sells a low end Power Mac at 1299 for education. If anything they should just lower the price on that to 1199 or 1099.
Why waste a lot of R&D on a low end computer that will be exactly the same as a Dell PC. The eMac's unique style is what makes it appealing. A school on the cheap can allows by a 799 iMac.
Aren't we feeling elite today. What good does such a remark, mr. Ensign? If I were your mom, I'd send you to your room, just about now.
Is using a mac only about showing how much you can pay for a comp, mr. Ensign?
<hr></blockquote>
The whole populist/elitist split personality of the Mac platform is well documented. The Mac could have been a true populist machine had things been done in differently in the 80's, but they weren't, and for better or worse the Mac became an elitist machine in the 90's.
What Steve Jobs as done in the last five years is realize this basic fact, and more importantly, stopped apologizing for it.
The OS X and iApp experience is not possible on a $500 machine. A $500 headless G3 Mac hooked up to your brother's old beige ViewSonic CRT is not the user experience Steve has in mind.
I've been broke and reasonably well-off at different points in my life, but I've always been happy to pay extra for my Mac. If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
As far as the value of a headless Mac in the education market goes, read jante99's post. He nailed it.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but you guys are just wishing for something that's never going to happen.
<strong>
The whole populist/elitist split personality of the Mac platform is well documented. The Mac could have been a true populist machine had things been done in differently in the 80's, but they weren't, and for better or worse the Mac became an elitist machine in the 90's.
What Steve Jobs as done in the last five years is realize this basic fact, and more importantly, stopped apologizing for it.
The OS X and iApp experience is not possible on a $500 machine. A $500 headless G3 Mac hooked up to your brother's old beige ViewSonic CRT is not the user experience Steve has in mind.
I've been broke and reasonably well-off at different points in my life, but I've always been happy to pay extra for my Mac. If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.
As far as the value of a headless Mac in the education market goes, read jante99's post. He nailed it.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers, but you guys are just wishing for something that's never going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's great to see another poster like this. Apple's perfect
<strong>eMacs at MWSF:
867/128/40/gForce4MX32/Combo $999
1GHz/256/60/gForce4MX64/Superdrive $1,299
If one of these two models doesn't do it for you, then buy a $400 POS Wintel box and get the hell off the Mac platform. You're diluting the gene pool.
BTW, MrBill, can I consider your sig. an homage?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm posting this from my new $399 POS. Necessity dictacted that I get a cheap PC.
<strong>My bet: Apple will rebate these for a while, then just lower the price. If apple is really trying to get the e-segment back with this model, that is. Even at 900 bucks, school administrators (with tightening budgets due to the economy) will surely be looking at 399 pc's with 100 dollar monitors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where can you find a $399 PC? I just went to Dell and priced out (home pricing, could not seem to get to the educational pricing) a basically equivalent machine to the eMac (with and without monitor).
$707 w/out monitor
$867 w/monitor (w/ a DECENT monitor, not the standard crap Dell defaults with.)
Granted Dell offers you a ton more options for configuration. But in an institutional environment I would guess they are likely to pick a single standard configuration anyway.
When is everyone going to learn you don't get something for nothing. Dell has always (and always will) attempt to compare (pardon the pun) apples and oranges. They will not directly compare, feature for feature, same quality components, etc. and then price it. You'll find that the pricing is fairly comparable to what Apple offers. Look at that $867 price.
Apple doesn't offer nearly the flexibility of configuration that Dell will. And that is a selling point for Dell. But when we start to package similarly equiped machines, we find the pricing isn't all that different.
P.S. Plus you can get an all-in-one eMac...fewer cables...less space...less power (the Dell COMPUTER itself uses 200 watts vs. 170 watts for the eMac. That doesn't count the monitor. Issues like power DO cost money too.)
I'm not saying that Apple is always better. I'm only saying the issue of cost is generally not nearly as simple as it is often made out to be.
The mac platform is a different experience that that of the winblows world. Apple spends alot of money on R&D in hardware and software and there business structure differs from that of Dell for example. On top of that, Apple wants to maintain the great mac experience, and they have made a good business out of offering the different options that are currently available. Apple cant and wont offer a sub $500 P.O.S. for low income homes, low budget schools, and cheap people.
I hate to use a cliche, but there is a reason BMW doesn't offer cheap peace of sh1ts. They make top quality cars that you have to pay a premium for. No one is banging down their door to build a low-end car cause you can go out and buy a new Kia for 10 g's. Theyre just not gonna do it. Get over it.
As for the eMac, I'm expecting an update and a price drop. The iMac tends to follow the PowerBook, and the eMac uses the iMac's board and I/O devices, so look to the latest revision for hints.
As far as education goes, a headless eMac is appealing from a purely economical perspective, but that's it. From the point of view of designing the machines for actual use, the eMac wins hands down: It's compact, more or less childproof, and easy to secure and maintain. Going headless defeats almost all of those advantages.
Give the $399 machines one semester and see how they do. You get what you pay for, and you don't have to pay that much more to get something built for education.
[ 11-22-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>