Hoping new pro G5's bring a pro mouse/keyboard

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 48
    dglowdglow Posts: 147member
    Concord, I must disagree. Apple's wireless keyboard and mouse are fantastic IMO. Could they be of better build? Sure, of course. I think that statement is true of all too many consumer goods today. Still, for the price this pair is amazing.



    I love two-button mice in OS X but I make do without the second button for the feel of this cordless mouse. My main Mac is a PowerBook, so I have to manage without a second mouse button much of the time anyway.



    The keyboard is the best I've seen from Apple since Jobs took over. Could the feel be better? Yes. The wireless keyboard's key action is a bit too spongy for me, but it's also quiet which is nice. And a keypress doesn't require much energy, which is probably good for our hands, wrists and fingers, anyway, right? The keyboard often feels weightless in my lap, and that's even when loaded down with 4 AA batteries! It's also small. Really, wonderfully small. There is no bezel at all! The case housing the keys is one or two millimeters larger than the profile of the keys themselves.



    Wow!



    Do you guys realize this has been a design of Apple's for years? Frog and Apple designed a perfectly edgeless keyboard in the mid-eighties but it never shipped. And now Apple has built it, and it's wireless!



    I honestly think the ID on both of these objects is stunning. White is classy but it does show dirt quickly. I'm guessing Apple will stick with white simply because it goes with everything (not all of Apple's machines are aluminum after all.) Who knows what the new iMac will look like? I certainly don't. But, I'll give good odds to what its keyboard and mouse might look like. One keyboard design for all machines == reduced cost of production.



    Last but not least is the design of the mouse. The clear layer over white is very iPod and iMac. Nice. Perfectly smooth and just the right weight... and of course, no cord!!



    My biggest criticism lies with keyboard design in general. Why are keyboards designed for left-handed people? When I mouse with my left hand the mouse is mere inches away from my hand. Isn't less movement healthier? Well, why does a righty's hand have to cross over eight columns of keys in order to reach the mouse? It makes no sense!



    (At very least put the arrow keys and home/end/up/down on the left. Or get rid of the numpad.)



    Sorry for the rambling! Good night,



    dglow
  • Reply 22 of 48
    ionyzionyz Posts: 491member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bborofka

    They're not fine. No PowerMac G5 buyer is going to use that crappy mouse with his system. Lot's of users like to let their keyboards lie flat, too. Apple's keyboard and mouse offerings are pathetic.



    A better mouse acceleration algorithm in OS X would be nice too.




    I could easily use a single-button mouse on a G5. It depends on the person and their workflow, not the hardware. A scroll would be nice, but meh. I use a single-button Pro mouse everyday at work, at home a Logitech 500MX 8-button.



    Their keyboard should definitely get a boost. Aluminum, sure why not. Backlit... I can see Apple giving reasons not to use it. Where you have a full keyboard you have a desktop machine, a desktop machine is by a desk, desks have lamps, etc. The feel of the keyboard should be improved. I'm typing right now on a Tactile Pro.



    Sure maybe they shouldn't use expensive steel switches, but isn't it time they made a keyboard to rival the old Extended?
  • Reply 23 of 48
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bborofka

    My bad. It's just that no experienced Mac user I know likes the Apple 1 button mouse. I would guess that the majority of PowerMac users don't like the 1 button mouse.



    I own a Dual 2 GHz G5 with the 1-mouse Apple mouse and I like it, I don't feel the need for a second button at all!!

    All of my friends involved in graphic design or video post-processing use Powermacs with the standard mouse, and like that!



    Well maybe that's a part of the French exception...
  • Reply 24 of 48
    Quote:

    Originally posted by discstickers

    Isn't that a little overkill?



    No, since the keyboard is acting as an USB hub.
  • Reply 25 of 48
    frenchmacfrenchmac Posts: 89member
    I expect Apple to ship a new Al mouse/keyboard to match the look and feel of the G5. I expect that they could be used on a PC too (like they do with the new screens and most of the last device (iPod, iSight (even if their is still no iChat for Windows - but who knows...), Airport Extreme and Express, iPod link with cars, iTunes for Windows, iTunes Music Store, etc...). It seems that the trend at Apple is to offer the more products to the PC crowd they can. So that people see reference to Apple product in news, comparative review... To avoid the relative isolation of Apple products from the rests of the market...



    I really do think that its a good strategy to win over the Windows market... to start with this small steps to encourage people to consider an Apple product when they look for a MP3 player/screen/keyboard/mouse... to make the Apple brand a synonym for higher quality... and then to ultimatly push people to buy the cpu (relatively low cost/small enclosure (Ã* la miniPC) G5 headless CPU).



    The more I look to the products they ship in the previous months the more I think that where they want to bring us...
  • Reply 26 of 48
    idebaseridebaser Posts: 121member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by discstickers

    Isn't that a little overkill?



    would be nice to plug my USB 2.0 flash drive into the keyboard and get full speed...
  • Reply 27 of 48
    idebaseridebaser Posts: 121member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FrenchMac

    I really do think that its a good strategy to win over the Windows market... to start with this small steps to encourage people to consider an Apple product when they look for a MP3 player/screen/keyboard/mouse... to make the Apple brand a synonym for higher quality... and then to ultimatly push people to buy the cpu (relatively low cost/small enclosure (Ã* la miniPC) G5 headless CPU).





    why would Apple want folks to switch from a pc to buy a cheap mac?

    especially after working so hard to brand Apple as "higher quality"...

    as they've shown w/ the iPod, people will certainly pay top dollar for the "best"...

    Apple wants people w/ money to spend to buy their products: BMW and the iPod (!)



    though, apparently, they'd like you to spend your $ on someone else's mouse and keyboard...since an optical mouse w/ 2 buttons scroll wheel retails for $15 nowadays, no big deal - find one that fits your hand/productivity the best...

    as for keyboards, they outta work on that a bit, since the options are much more limited
  • Reply 28 of 48
    Because Apple want to convince some of the other 95% of users to switch to the Apple to gain market share. That't all the switch campaign was about. Even if it fails in some way, I really think that their will is there. The Apple Store allow them to improve the contact with the end user. Now they need a product offering that help them to penetrate this market. When I say a low cost mac I don't really mean a $500 computer but more a sub $1000 mac. Today, the G5 is more $2000 and the G4 has the image of an old technology. For me, there is no doubt that before the christmas buying season there will be such an offering.



    So Apple by then will have free software products for PC users, the iTunes Music Store, music and multimedia consumer products, computer device, and certainly an affordable mac product. A pc user can be attract by the free iTunes, by the iTunes music store, then by the iPod, and then by more costly products (mac)...
  • Reply 29 of 48
    tak1108tak1108 Posts: 222member
    If apple comes out with a cheap iMac where they make $1 profit on it they will still win in the end.



    Say the sell 1 million extra units. That's 1 extra million dollars in profit.



    When Tiger is released and 10% of them upgrade at $130 a pop:



    That's $13 million in REVENUE that didn't have before in tiger alone. Did the cost of tiger cost the same as if they didn't have this new switcher computer. Yes.



    Now the iLife upgrade at $50 a pop.



    You see where I'm going with this.



    Apple needs a computer that will sell to the masses. The masses use sub $1000 computers with separate monitors that usually have 1 cpu that the pro computers use.



    This is why Apple needs a headless iMac that sells for >$1000. It's not because of the profit on the computer. Its because of the software!
  • Reply 30 of 48
    idebaseridebaser Posts: 121member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tak1108



    Apple needs a computer that will sell to the masses. The masses use sub $1000 computers with separate monitors that usually have 1 cpu that the pro computers use.



    This is why Apple needs a headless iMac that sells for >$1000. It's not because of the profit on the computer. Its because of the software!






    i don't think a company that advertises putting your iPod in your BMW/Mini really cares about the "masses" w/ their box and monitors...



    yes, the eMac is under $1000 and the iBook is around that price, but their cheapest monitor is $1300...



    they want more of the "upscale" marketshare, because *drum roll* they have more money to spend...

    look if apple can afford to pay Steve's salary, then i don't think they need to worry about converting the cheapest part of the market...much like the iPod, they want most of the market that pays the higher prices...



    back to the keyboard/mouse topic, Apple assumes you can afford to buy an input device other than a no-button mouse if you really find it a better user experience...as for thekeyboard, let's get USB 2.0 at least!
  • Reply 31 of 48
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iDebaser

    look if apple can afford to pay Steve's salary, then i don't think they need to worry about converting the cheapest part of the market.



    My salary is bigger than Uncle Steve's and so is yours hopefully...it's the bonuses where he cleans up!
  • Reply 32 of 48
    tak1108tak1108 Posts: 222member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by iDebaser

    i don't think a company that advertises putting your iPod in your BMW/Mini really cares about the "masses" w/ their box and monitors...



    yes, the eMac is under $1000 and the iBook is around that price, but their cheapest monitor is $1300...









    Who said, they wouldn't introduce new cheap monitors as well? hey make a couple bucks on those as well. And sell some of those displays to the iBook or powerbook crowd. a 12" powerbook spanning a widescreen 17" display would be pretty sweet.
  • Reply 33 of 48
    garypgaryp Posts: 150member
    Check out Apple's QTVR of the new PM & Cinema Display. It appears to show an aluminum keyboard & mouse, although this could be an artifact of the conversion to QTVR:



    http://www.apple.com/hardware/galler...e2004_480.html
  • Reply 34 of 48
    tak1108tak1108 Posts: 222member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by garyp

    Check out Apple's QTVR of the new PM & Cinema Display. It appears to show an aluminum keyboard & mouse, although this could be an artifact of the conversion to QTVR:



    http://www.apple.com/hardware/galler...e2004_480.html




    No, that's plastic. you can see through the keyboard when you spin the image.
  • Reply 35 of 48
    Why the hell doesnt apple make CRT monitors any more?



    I would be willing to bet that the majority of computer users use CRT monitors.



    Why doesnt apple release a nice looking 19" CRT and sell it for like $400?
  • Reply 36 of 48
    Quote:

    Originally posted by zpapasmurf

    Why the hell doesnt apple make CRT monitors any more?



    I would be willing to bet that the majority of computer users use CRT monitors.



    Why doesnt apple release a nice looking 19" CRT and sell it for like $400?




    You're kidding, right? Who wants a 50 pound monitor that makes too much noise, distorts image geometry, displays inaccurate colors, and uses more electricity than the average dishwasher?



    Fortunately, Apple understands that the customer is not always right. Who in their right mind would hook-up a CRT to a G5? If you're really that senseless/tasteless, you shouldn't have a problem with a third-party display. Most users do use CRTs, but that's only because they have no taste or no money. Neither of those types would typically have a G5 in the first place.



    The 17" Cinema Display costs $699 and has almost the same viewable area as a 19" CRT. But if you really want an Apple CRT, check out eBay.
  • Reply 37 of 48
    ionyzionyz Posts: 491member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Michael Wilkie

    ]You're kidding, right? Who wants a 50 pound monitor that makes too much noise, distorts image geometry, displays inaccurate colors, and uses more electricity than the average dishwasher?



    Emphasis mine. They may be large, susceptible to distortion and use more electricity then an LCD. "Distorts image geometry"? Grab a flat CRT and there will very little (if any) distortion, such as Diamondtron and Trinitron. That is unless your speaking about magnetic field distortion.



    Inaccurate colors though? Watch it, most LCDs have horrible colors and while Apple LCD are better then most this is still and LCD problem. Doing color work? Buying a good CRT can be invaluable (cough Sony Artisan cough).
  • Reply 38 of 48
    concordconcord Posts: 312member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by IonYz:

    Emphasis mine. They may be large, susceptible to distortion and use more electricity then an LCD. "Distorts image geometry"? Grab a flat CRT and there will very little (if any) distortion, such as Diamondtron and Trinitron. That is unless your speaking about magnetic field distortion.



    Inaccurate colors though? Watch it, most LCDs have horrible colors and while Apple LCD are better then most this is still and LCD problem. Doing color work? Buying a good CRT can be invaluable (cough Sony Artisan cough).



    Indeed, Michael needs to borrow a clue here. CRTs are still *much* better than LCDs for color critical work. No pro would ever use an LCD for that kind of work. LCDs still can't compare to CRTs for gaming and video work either. The really fast response time LCDs suffer from 6-bit color as well trading speed for color depth.



    C.
  • Reply 39 of 48
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Concord

    Indeed, Michael needs to borrow a clue here. CRTs are still *much* better than LCDs for color critical work. No pro would ever use an LCD for that kind of work. LCDs still can't compare to CRTs for gaming and video work either. The really fast response time LCDs suffer from 6-bit color as well trading speed for color depth.



    C.




    I'm a pro and I have used an LCD for my color work for years. How can I do it with such limited color? Simple. My 7-color color printer's color space still exists within display's. Want proof?











    I guess it depends what you're doing. But the pros who demand that much out of a CRT wouldn't by an Apple CRT anyway. Specialty displays from Sony and Lacie already crowd the market.
  • Reply 40 of 48
    concordconcord Posts: 312member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Michael Wilke:

    I'm a pro and I have used an LCD for my color work for years. How can I do it with such limited color? Simple. My 7-color color printer's color space still exists within display's. Want proof?



    Your link's broken...



    LCDs cannot yet produce smooth and neutral grayscales which will affect color right down the line. Dithering problems on fast LCDs compound the issue. They are subject to color shifts, "shadowing" and hotspots under different ambient temperatures. Even color uniformity across the width of LCDs are a problem - want proof? Duplicate an image in PS and set the two side by side. Color uniformity is a problem when looking at them from an angle - not good if you're working with ADs judging color.



    Thanks, but no thanks. LCDs will one day be good enough, but today is not that day.

    Quote:

    I guess it depends what you're doing. But the pros who demand that much out of a CRT wouldn't by an Apple CRT anyway. Specialty displays from Sony and Lacie already crowd the market.



    Even an good, but not great, CRT like Apple's is much better for color work than an LCD. I can even see Apple putting out their own "Pro" line of CRTs which would still be much cheaper than their line of LCDs.



    C.
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