New iMac's in Sept - **CONFIRMED**

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  • Reply 201 of 302
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    An accurate account. What amazes me about Apple is that they continue to release stupid "improvements" to technology that has industry standards. Its like they never learned their lessons way back in the day of the twiggy / tweaky or whatever they called that disk drive.



    How does one make a reasonable argument, within a company like Apple, that something like a non-standard video connector is a feature that there customers would really appreciate. It would be a very interesting day to see how such things get promoted from a thought into an actual product introduction. Discovering how this is done and correcting the issue would go a long ways to fixing the product development cycle with respect to Apple PC hardware.



    I don't know whether or not the present issue with the iMac is the result of the mindset at Apple or just the result of slippage with a vendor. It would be very good to see Apple having a change of heart with respect to some of the funky hardware it likes to deliver. Can anyone imagine an iMac3 with a standard video connector connected to a video card in a standard format that is actually easy to upgrade or replace?



    Thanks

    Dave





    Quote:

    Originally posted by Matsu

    Apple also made a big deal about the death of the CRT... still here.



    3Ghz PPC970... not here yet.



    ADC, the future... not so much.



    Apple has made lots of big deals about products, only to swing the other way -- various shipping times for everything from iMacs, iPod minis, and assorted Gfx cards, that either arrived late, or with price bumps, or spec drops (remember that?)



    Whatever is said on stage is merely marketting designed to justify the product design of the moment and nothing more.



    On vertical drives?



    S.J. "In the past we couldn't find a way to integrate the computer behind the display, not in any elegant way, especially the drives, but thanks to our engineering..."



    Catch my drift?




  • Reply 202 of 302
    I, for one, really hope the iMac stays AIO. My reasoning:



    -The current 20" Cinema would effectively double the price of the iMac.



    -Apple will not introduce smaller Cinema displays that would cannibalize sales of the larger models.



    Of course, I would like a pizza box in addition to the iMac, but not as a replacement.



    The question is really whether its possible for Apple to build a PowerMac with one processor, half the RAM slots, no PCI slots, slightly lesser graphics and a built-in display for half the price. I don't know if they can do it. It seems like the price of the display would outweigh the cost savings of cutting a few slots and a processor from the MOBO.
  • Reply 203 of 302
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wizard69

    How does one make a reasonable argument, within a company like Apple, that something like a non-standard video connector is a feature that there customers would really appreciate. It would be a very interesting day to see how such things get promoted from a thought into an actual product introduction. Discovering how this is done and correcting the issue would go a long ways to fixing the product development cycle with respect to Apple PC hardware.



    I don't know whether or not the present issue with the iMac is the result of the mindset at Apple or just the result of slippage with a vendor. It would be very good to see Apple having a change of heart with respect to some of the funky hardware it likes to deliver. Can anyone imagine an iMac3 with a standard video connector connected to a video card in a standard format that is actually easy to upgrade or replace?




    There are a lot of examples where Apple tried to create new standards but had to drop the techno because they were they only ones to use it, sure : ADB, ADC, NuBus, etc...

    All those proprietary things were evolutions of existing technologies, not new technologies at all. When you have 3% marketshare, it's worthless trying to impose new "standards", especially when the differences with the existing standard are small.

    And this is plain foolishness to build a low-end computer with proprietary gadgets indeed!



    Anyway, implementing BOTH standards and all-new technologies on the higher-end computers is pretty nice. A nice example being Apple's Firewire technology which has been implemented on Powermacs without dropping the USB standard.
  • Reply 204 of 302
    ape_manape_man Posts: 29member
    The new iMac will be iRobot. Don't the Nestor Class 5 robots in the upcoming movie look like iMacs personofied?



    Sorry for wasting your time.
  • Reply 205 of 302
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Funny I thought all PowerMac video cards came with DVI, and ADC before. Mine did.
  • Reply 206 of 302
    Quote:

    Originally posted by onlooker

    Funny I thought all PowerMac video cards came with DVI, and ADC before. Mine did.



    Yes but still, modifying a video card to add support for a non standard video card costs a little.
  • Reply 207 of 302
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wizard69

    What amazes me about Apple is that they continue to release stupid "improvements" to technology that has industry standards. Its like they never learned their lessons way back in the day of the twiggy / tweaky or whatever they called that disk drive.



    No. The problem is Apple wanted to have its name on it. Dell, HP, Sony, they all won't adopt a technology, even if it's superior, that carries an apple in its name. FireWire did well - no Apple in the name included.
  • Reply 208 of 302
    momanmoman Posts: 2member
    i hope it has a g5
  • Reply 209 of 302
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    It is one thing to introduce new technology such as firewire that provides new functionality. If such functionality is superior to what is offered in any other form then it will sell itself. This has been the case with Firewire, it probally doesn't hurt that the licensing arraingement was rather light.



    Even ADB could have been considered to be in th category of technology that worked well until something better came along. That better technology was USB and Apple dived into it full hog. USB was the right idea at the right time.



    Unfortunately many of Apple forays into non standard technology have not been so well managed. A new technology has to have a compelling advantage over industry standards to even be worthwhile to look at. What is bothersome is the engineering effort required to even implement these technologies is significant. It is effort that Apple could have used in a much more agressive fashion with improvements to the Mac that are outside of industry standards.



    The problem outside of Apple is that the business community does not want custom hardware and custom connectors for mundane hardware. Even in the consumer space there is a concern about upgrade and repair costs.



    Dave





    Quote:

    Originally posted by The One to Rescue

    There are a lot of examples where Apple tried to create new standards but had to drop the techno because they were they only ones to use it, sure : ADB, ADC, NuBus, etc...

    All those proprietary things were evolutions of existing technologies, not new technologies at all. When you have 3% marketshare, it's worthless trying to impose new "standards", especially when the differences with the existing standard are small.

    And this is plain foolishness to build a low-end computer with proprietary gadgets indeed!



    Anyway, implementing BOTH standards and all-new technologies on the higher-end computers is pretty nice. A nice example being Apple's Firewire technology which has been implemented on Powermacs without dropping the USB standard.




  • Reply 210 of 302
    mandricardmandricard Posts: 486member
    I think some are forgetting the audience here for the iMac. It is first-time buyers, as well as people who want ease of setup and modular (education) solutions. That means simple. That means less options. Basically, take it out of the box, and plug it in & it goes. Nothing to configure, nothing to attach, etc.



    The original gumdrop was a blockbuster precisely because of that: power and simplicity: remember "there is no step 5"?



    So, I think that the AIO thing is going to happen, with fewer options (e.g. not stackable external components with pci slots, etc.) Slots are for pros. iMacs are for the rest of us. And they will have FW2 and USB2 for external connectivity, when they need it (remember the gaggle of USB devices that we never dreamed possible that came out with the original?



    My hunch is that they will probably not have video-out capability, but may have ability to stream other media to other devices in the next iteration, but that is only a hunch. Video out makes no sense when the monitor is right there in front of you. (Though it makes a lot of sense on a powerbook, for example).



    So, I think it is possible: a limited graphics card, of course, good enough for most gamers, (but not a 256MB fan-cooled whopper that many seem to want). A decent and quiet disk drive, speakers not included, and a low-end G5 chip, shipping with way too little RAM and a front-side (and chip) bus that will have its speed governed by heat concerns and a 17-inch screen.



    I think it is doable for 1299. Whether they can get that under 1000 as many seem to want, I doubt it. But hey, getting a G5 in your bedroom for 1299 isn't such a bad deal.



    Hope springs eternal,



    Mandricard

    AppleOutsider
  • Reply 211 of 302
    sport73sport73 Posts: 438member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mandricard

    I think some are forgetting the audience here for the iMac. It is first-time buyers, as well as people who want ease of setup and modular (education) solutions. That means simple. That means less options. Basically, take it out of the box, and plug it in & it goes. Nothing to configure, nothing to attach, etc.



    The original gumdrop was a blockbuster precisely because of that: power and simplicity: remember "there is no step 5"?



    So, I think that the AIO thing is going to happen, with fewer options (e.g. not stackable external components with pci slots, etc.) Slots are for pros. iMacs are for the rest of us. And they will have FW2 and USB2 for external connectivity, when they need it (remember the gaggle of USB devices that we never dreamed possible that came out with the original?



    My hunch is that they will probably not have video-out capability, but may have ability to stream other media to other devices in the next iteration, but that is only a hunch. Video out makes no sense when the monitor is right there in front of you. (Though it makes a lot of sense on a powerbook, for example).



    So, I think it is possible: a limited graphics card, of course, good enough for most gamers, (but not a 256MB fan-cooled whopper that many seem to want). A decent and quiet disk drive, speakers not included, and a low-end G5 chip, shipping with way too little RAM and a front-side (and chip) bus that will have its speed governed by heat concerns and a 17-inch screen.



    I think it is doable for 1299. Whether they can get that under 1000 as many seem to want, I doubt it. But hey, getting a G5 in your bedroom for 1299 isn't such a bad deal.



    Hope springs eternal,



    Mandricard

    AppleOutsider






    I agree wholeheartedly, I think you've hit the issue on the head. However, I do think there is room to EXPAND the idea of what a computer is/can do. I hope the new iMac will revolutionize in a way we can't quite dream of yet. After all, it's about the consumer. Apple asked what people wanted with the original iMac, and the answer was an easy path to the internet and computing without all the hassle/complications.



    I think that answer rings true today, but I think it might also include: A hassle-free way to manage my digital lifestyle (Photos, Movies etc.) I think iLife will play a big role in the physical hardware design of the new iMac. My hope is that it will include a new HUB strategy (software/hardware) for sharing/interacting with my digital lifestyle.
  • Reply 212 of 302
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    A little brain fart for 'yall: isn't the new iPod supposed to come out around September too? Food for thought.
  • Reply 213 of 302
    foamyfoamy Posts: 55member
    Here's my horrible Photoshop job of what I think the iMac3 will look like.



    Please improve upon if you have *actual* photoshop skills.







    One part 17" flat panel, one part 1U mini-xServe-like base.
  • Reply 214 of 302
    macaddict16macaddict16 Posts: 194member
    What about wireless firewire as a reason it has not been announced yet?



    Macaddict16
  • Reply 215 of 302
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mandricard

    Slots are for pros. iMacs are for the rest of us. And they will have FW2 and USB2 for external connectivity, when they need it (remember the gaggle of USB devices that we never dreamed possible that came out with the original?



    If that were true then why are there so many video upgrade cards available for the PC? Surely pro's are not buying a new one every 6 months. In fact, the only video cards that I know of that have been replaced at work in the past 5 years are those that were no longer functioning. Most of the retail video card market is driven by the game industry, which markets to consumers NOT pros. Except for the video production and animation markets I would bet that most pros leave their OEM cards in the computer till they sell it.



    Also note that a video card in a Mac tower really isn't that much more difficult to replace as the memory. Apple might get more resources put into video cards from ATI and Nvidea if they had a consumer computer that they could market their retail cards to.
  • Reply 216 of 302
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Macaddict16

    What about wireless firewire as a reason it has not been announced yet?



    Macaddict16




    Doubt it, that technology will be adopted in the PowerMac first.
  • Reply 217 of 302
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by foamy

    Here's my horrible Photoshop job of what I think the iMac3 will look like.



    Please improve upon if you have *actual* photoshop skills.







    One part 17" flat panel, one part 1U mini-xServe-like base.






    Thats almost exactly what I was thinking/hoping. The iMac is a stylish pizza box, or cube, with a slot in the back which the current range of flat panel monitors snap into. The buyer then selects which ever Apple monitor suits their needs, or if they already have a monitor, they can use their own. Perfect?
  • Reply 218 of 302
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by BuonRotto

    A little brain fart for 'yall: isn't the new iPod supposed to come out around September too? Food for thought.



    Good point, it should have a built-in iPod dock, and the home-on-iPod feature.
  • Reply 219 of 302
    mandricardmandricard Posts: 486member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by foamy







    How would you cool that?
  • Reply 220 of 302
    I don't think there is anything wrong about this, I think it's legit and that

    Apple just wants to "quietly" release a small tip to keep us faithful mac users on our toes.
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