Apple Photoshop, Apple Office
After seeing what Apple is capable of doing after the Tiger keynote, there is no doubt in my mind that Apple is secretly working on a Photoshop-like app, and an Office-like suite.
I think Apple knows it needs a 'Plan B' if Adobe calls it quits and Microsoft packs its bags. The projects are probably on low priority but I bet it's in the works right now and probably has been for some time by a small team of people.
Apple is probably not going to release this for a long time or until Adobe drop Photoshop or Microsoft drops Office...whichever comes first.
We're probably not going to see these apps in the next 3 years. But I bet they'll be amazing when Apple does decide that they should be released.
Looking at the technology we have right now (or in Tiger), Apple's Office will probably have some excellent Rendezvous collaboration tools (ala SubEthaEdit) and integrate iChat in some way (this would be one of the killer-features that would make MS Office look like a pile of stinky doodoo...MS is trying hard with 2004 to integrate MSN...I haven't tried it myself and I'm not to sure I want to...anyone know if the integration is any good?)
Apple's Photoshop will surely get CoreImage, as well as Keynote guides (or maybe a more powerful version of it...like OmniGraffles...or maybe even more powerful than that.) LiveType will probably be in there (although this is more impressive when animated, some of the effects are still really cool in still.) Rendezvous collaboration tools for this too. Why not? Who says 2 or 3 people on the same Photoshop document is crazy-talk?
edit: my bad...I was sure I was in the Software forum.
I think Apple knows it needs a 'Plan B' if Adobe calls it quits and Microsoft packs its bags. The projects are probably on low priority but I bet it's in the works right now and probably has been for some time by a small team of people.
Apple is probably not going to release this for a long time or until Adobe drop Photoshop or Microsoft drops Office...whichever comes first.
We're probably not going to see these apps in the next 3 years. But I bet they'll be amazing when Apple does decide that they should be released.
Looking at the technology we have right now (or in Tiger), Apple's Office will probably have some excellent Rendezvous collaboration tools (ala SubEthaEdit) and integrate iChat in some way (this would be one of the killer-features that would make MS Office look like a pile of stinky doodoo...MS is trying hard with 2004 to integrate MSN...I haven't tried it myself and I'm not to sure I want to...anyone know if the integration is any good?)
Apple's Photoshop will surely get CoreImage, as well as Keynote guides (or maybe a more powerful version of it...like OmniGraffles...or maybe even more powerful than that.) LiveType will probably be in there (although this is more impressive when animated, some of the effects are still really cool in still.) Rendezvous collaboration tools for this too. Why not? Who says 2 or 3 people on the same Photoshop document is crazy-talk?
edit: my bad...I was sure I was in the Software forum.
Comments
Man I really hope so. Here are my exhaustive thoughts on the subject.
Apple Image Editor-
It is very likely that we will not see Core Image/Video support early on from the larger companies. This is a shame because Apple developers have worked so hard to get this ready and they deserve to see the fruits of their labor. I do believe Apple should create and ship an image editor. However to placate Adobe and let them know that Apple has no intention of encroaching on their space I think Apple's best bet would be to create the image editor as a bundled app with Final Cut Express. In video editing it's common to use PS to clean up individual frames and do light painting. Apple's image editor would do the same thing. It would have robust painting tools, support for 48bit color and High Dynamic Range formats(Image I/O). It would be optimized for video and contain no print publishing features like CMYK separations. It would heavily leverage Apple technology like Core Image/Video, Applescript, Spotlight, Image I/O, Xgrid/Rendezvous and OpenGL and 64bit support. Users would beg for Apple to create a separate product but Apple would remain steadfast that this tool is strictly for use within a video workflow. This app wouldn?t' support PS plugins but rely only on Image Units and Video units. This insulates Adobe from people buying Final Cut Pro to use in PS's stead and retain the ability to use PS plugins.
What this does is gives us a baseline of how an Apple video app would perform using Apple technology. People would still use PS because they need to use their plugins and are familiar with the PS UI. Apple's editor would look like FCP but offer a few tweaks to the UI to suit a graphic toolset.
Apple Office Suite -
This one would be much more difficult than an image editor. An Apple Office Suite(AOS) would need to branch out into a new paradigm that is a departure in certain key ways from the UI paradigm of the MS Office suite. MS Office is aimed at the Business sector. It excels in cranking out company memos and other drab word processing affair. Not much creativity there.
Apple's word processor would be a large enough departure from today's paradigm to make waves. Apple's wp would be aimed at creative types. How? By adding features that allow the author to visualize the structure of the document much better. You would be able to create a document as normal by typing it out but after that you would have a layer that can toggle on/off that would allow you to markup the page with comments etc. Each paragraph could be surround ed by a numbered bounding box allowing you to collapse the paragraph leaving only the number or easily move paragraphs around to change your structure. Since the paragraphs are numbered you have and easy way of telling how your original story or structure was laid out.
Outlining- Similar to Omni Outliner you'd be able to see your outline and collapse it using built in tools right in the wp window with widget controls(those wouldn't print though). Imported files would automatically detect outline formats and convert to AOS outlining.
{b]Networking[/b]- This is where the layering comes through. Supporting Rendezvous you would be able to share the document on a network and allow certain people access to view or view and markup as well offering a versioning system in which they could modify a copy for your viewing.
Web/HTML- Webkit. Need I say more? The whole AOS would easily allow you to tap into the Webkit framework to publish your files to your .mac website or any website of your choosing using FTP or WebDAV. Yes, you would even have the option of creating Dashboard widgets that can be designed to update the data at specific intervals. Managers could tap into the Keynote Widget that shows weekly sales figures or profits in charted formats and see up to the minute(depending on how often they wish to refresh data) reports with a simply pressing of "F12"
Multimedia- Easily embed graphic images and video to your documents with little CPU penalty thanks to Core Image/Video and Image I/O. Easily add effects and even audio to reports to convey your message with maximum impact. Future versions would support 3D once Apple creates a 3D system wide library(ala Avalon 3D). Easily open and save to pdf with pdfkit. Applescript support throughout and Automator savvy.
Developing a Cottage Industry- Apple must see to it that all developers benefit from an AOS. Apple should propose a certification process for AOS. It goes like this. Core Data allows for an application to access data stored in persistent files which are very similar to databases but vary in slight ways. Thus the AOS grow the quickest if it supports many persistent stores. However developers need an incentive to support Core Data. Well if Apple pays a small license fee to those developers who support Core Data to the fullest(must be certified Core Data savvy) then AOS would suddenly reap the rewards of every developer supporting Core Data. You have AOS and OmniGraffle on your computer. You love those OG flowcharts and want to use them easily in your wp document. Well AOS just taps into the OG store and uses what it wants and finds it easily because Spotlight helps you find ANYTHING. Now multiply this 10x and image how powerful AOS becomes when it can grab and use anything. It sells AOS and it sells 3rd party apps because the developer gets the sale and profit shares from supporting Core Data. Apple develops a AOS cottage industry overnight.,and there is no limit to the files it can access.
This my friends is an MS Office demolisher. At it's core it's extensible and its breadth awesome. It is the unification of many developers under one marketable force. All the tools will be here for this by mid 2005
Apple should be working on an Appleworks replacement NOW. Ugh.
Like the points above.
I was awed by 'funhouse' a 'fun' program knocked out in a week by one guy and blows the speed of PS out the water! Realtime filters! Incredible.
Buy up Painter from Corel or better, buy up Corel!
Blend Painter with iPhoto, Shake, Motion and funhouse and Corel's image app' and you'd have a killer Image app'.
Scale it at various price points for features ala Final Cut.
Offer Word Perfect variant.
I think it Adobe have shown they could potentially drop PS by recent actions. The performance comparisons etc. It won't happen for years.
But Apple will have a devastating rebuttal.
Same with Office. I don't use it. Many Mac users don't judging by sales of it. But Open Office may be the platform for a devastating rebuttal if they try it.
Take one look at 'Tiger' and Apple's awesome software line-up and dare to doubt their software expertise. If they don't have it...they buy it in!
I don't worry about the day Adobe and M$ get further in bed together. Apple's got it covered.
Lemon Bon Bon
Because they have long offered PC software features that the Mac doesn't have?
If they can't be bothered to incorporate Apple Core Image tech' that one solitary Apple programmer incorporated into a 'week long' 'funhouse' app (which looked amazing...) then what does that tell you about Adobe's politics?
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
It will be interesting to see if Adobe does take advantage of Apple only tech' like 'funhouse'/Core image et al.
Because they have long offered PC software features that the Mac doesn't have?
If they can't be bothered to incorporate Apple Core Image tech' that one solitary Apple programmer incorporated into a 'week long' 'funhouse' app (which looked amazing...) then what does that tell you about Adobe's politics?
Lemon Bon Bon
Of Adobe utilizes Core Image it will only be scratching the surface. The problem with cross platform apps is that the developer seeks to unify the two apps and keep performance relatively the same. Thus, Adobe may be loath to have realtime functions on the Mac PS while the PC limps along taxing the CPU. This is the infamous politics of computing nowadays. However Apple is part to blame. They create these great APIs and no large companies use them because they don't want to be tied to the Mac platform that tightly in code. Apple could and should create a badge or whatever to recognize Mac apps that meet a high standard of Mac APIs. As a consumer I'd love to know that this app I'm considering purchasing supports Core Image/Video, Quicktime and other technologies.
I got my firs taste of Apple programming quality when I went on a trip to Sunriver resorts in Oregon hosted by Apple and Canon. We captured video and utilized Final Cut Pro 2 and had a blast. FCP was running on OS9 of course and it was the most stable app I had used. We may have crashed only like once over the weekend. In contrast I remember using apps that crashed OS9 like 3-4 times a day. I then realized that Apple had a bit too many maverick programmers hacking 3rd party apps to pieces. So if I'm a bit leery about these larger companies "rolling their own" please forgive me. Once bitten twice shy.
And Apple would not be stupid enough to try and sell a competing product in these markets - it could, and probably would, backfire horribly on them. Imagine if Apple came out with their own Photoshop clone and Adobe said "bu-bye". How many industry PS users would drop Apple like a hot potato no matter how good Apple's product might be? Office? Same deal.
I can see Adobe adopting Core Image but keep in mind that they would also bring similar improvements on the PC side. Core image, as I understand it, is just making use of programmable pixel shaders for their effects. You can do exactly the same thing on the PC with DirectX 9 and even 8 to a lesser extent.
Just my 2 bits,
C.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
It will be interesting to see if Adobe does take advantage of Apple only tech' like 'funhouse'/Core image et al.
Well, I think Steve gave Adobe a bit of an ultimatum at the expo. He specifically said that he want "the next generation of Photoshop to be BETTER on the mac platform."
This combined with the Alias rep saying that Alias wanted to be the leading visual arts software company (or something to that effect)
I think Adobe has some work to do.
Originally posted by the cool gut
Well, I think Steve gave Adobe a bit of an ultimatum at the expo. He specifically said that he want "the next generation of Photoshop to be BETTER on the mac platform."
This combined with the Alias rep saying that Alias wanted to be the leading visual arts software company (or something to that effect)
I think Adobe has some work to do.
Adobe wouldn't flinch, especially at Alias.
When Alias was joined at the hip with SGI, they had quite a bit of "visual arts software" running on IRIX. But when you needed texture work to be done what did you do? Thats right, you fired up an old copy of Photoshop 3. Alias can do many things, but they were no Adobe.
I'm not talking that long ago either, think last year. Photoshop 3 is still getting plenty of use on IRIX because its the last version Adobe offered and Alias (SGI) didn't do jack to fill in the void.
Adobe has the upper hand here. Even if Apple did fill the void many people would jump ship. At this point our boat is lighter then it used to be.
If we were still on os9 style worknigs then maybe yes but not now.
Originally posted by IonYz
Adobe has the upper hand here.
Sure they have the upper hand, but unless you didn't see the WWDC keynote, Apple has made it a great deal easier to right your own Photo editing software.
Originally posted by the cool gut
Sure they have the upper hand, but unless you didn't see the WWDC keynote, Apple has made it a great deal easier to right your own Photo editing software.
I've seen it, perhaps you don't know how complex writing a photo editing app an industry can stand behind is. It not only has to be better, but get support from as many people as it can. WebCore has been available for people to make their own browsers for a while now. That doesn't phase the heavyweights though.
Adobe might incorporate Core Image technology into Photoshop, they might not. They have nothing to fear from the decision either way.
Originally posted by IonYz
Adobe might incorporate Core Image technology into Photoshop, they might not. They have nothing to fear from the decision either way.
Well, they have plenty to fear considering their probably the most paranoid software company around. They already think Apple is working on a Photoshop killer.
Photoshop may not be the easiest program to develope, but a hell of a lot easier than a 3D app like Maya - or a video editing program like FCP.
This nothing to worry about thinking is the reason they lost the video market. And considering the resource hog that Photoshop currently is, an editor that takes full advantage of core image would not have much of a struggle de-throning photoshop. It's just an image editor, not too many standards in the way there.
I realisticaly don't think that anyone will try to topple PS. I think PS is far more likely to be toppled by a collection of small apps that are superior to PS native tools when combined.
PS is a nice app but let's face is there are always better plugins out there. Nik plugs for sharpening, better masking plugins etc. Now I imagine that smaller companies may leverage Core Image/Video to make high quality Units that can be combined into a PS killer group. The only thing Apple needs to do is provide the glue to link these apps and Core Data looks to be a step in that direction.
Originally posted by IonYz
I've seen it, perhaps you don't know how complex writing a photo editing app an industry can stand behind is. It not only has to be better, but get support from as many people as it can. WebCore has been available for people to make their own browsers for a while now. That doesn't phase the heavyweights though.
It doesn't? Shortly after Safari's release, MS decided to stop developing IE for Mac.
IE total marketshare has dropped 1% in the last year. One can assume Safari and other WebCore-based browsers such as OmniWeb, Shiira, BumperCars are partly responsible for this drop.
IE Mac marketshare probably dropped a whole 70% (guesstimate...anyone got real numbers?) as most people moved to Safari or other browers such as Camino and Firefox or the WebCore browsers mentioned above.
You'll say..."oh, 1%...Microsoft must be shakin' in its booties"...they should be though, I see IE's marketshare rapidly decreasing in the next few years. Of course IE is so entrenched it'll probably never go below a 75% marketshare but losing 20% in the next few years is attributed to WebCore and Mozilla maturing beyond what IE has to offer.
The same will happen with apps written using CoreImage/Video. Some people buy Photoshop just to touch up and apply filters. If iPhoto provides this for free, there goes a part of Adobe's sales. If people start adding other tools + CoreImage/Video effects technology and releases it as freeware, or shareware or inexpensive commercial-ware, there goes another chunk of Adobe's sales. Adobe, like MS, will probably retain a 75% marketshare but losing 20% of your sales is nothing to scoff at.
Just the other day an app called Pixen (rev 2) was released. Some people used Photoshop because there are very, very few bitmap pixel editing tools out there. There goes a bit of Adobe's market. I have less need for Photoshop to create or edit sprites or icons. Pixen doesn't do everything Photoshop does but all of these little freeware/shareware apps add up and DO phase the heavyweights.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
It doesn't? Shortly after Safari's release, MS decided to stop developing IE for Mac.
IE total marketshare has dropped 1% in the last year. One can assume Safari and other WebCore-based browsers such as OmniWeb, Shiira, BumperCars are partly responsible for this drop.
IE Mac marketshare probably dropped a whole 70% (guesstimate...anyone got real numbers?) as most people moved to Safari or other browers such as Camino and Firefox or the WebCore browsers mentioned above.
You'll say..."oh, 1%...Microsoft must be shakin' in its booties"...they should be though, I see IE's marketshare rapidly decreasing in the next few years. Of course IE is so entrenched it'll probably never go below a 75% marketshare but losing 20% in the next few years is attributed to WebCore and Mozilla maturing beyond what IE has to offer.
I didn't mention Safari did I? I mentioned WebCore being used by small groups (or individuals). Neither Apple nor Omni Group are small, they are the heavyweights. The amount of people using Shiira and Bumpercars would more then likely not scratch the surfaces in the "number game" of browser marketshare.
Microsoft dropped IE development simultaneously across platforms, they weren't scared of either WebCore or Gecko browsers. They vowed only to offer bug fixes, when needed, and ride IE as an integrated component of Windows. They didn't plan to really update IE again till Longhorn came around.
Their philosophy has changed recently as the IE team has be brought together and is now working on an update. Maybe its all the security problems or the fact that Gecko browsers are edging into IE marketshare finally. They feel the burn of not having popup-blocking, tabs, heavier security and to some extent standards compliance.
Safari is also becoming guilty of what IE has benefited from for years, out-the-box usage. On recent Mac systems isn't Safari the default browser? The more Apple moves to Safari and stops shipping Macs with IE (by default) the more you will see Safari's numbers increase. Power users may have multiple web browser, same with developers, but most computer users know "The Internet" by a single icon. If that icon is a compass out-the-box, its a done deal.
Personally I find WebCore and Gecko superior to the IE renderer. But it takes a lot more then just a renderer to make a browser. The heavyweights (Mozilla, Apple, Omni, Microsoft) have swarms of people working on their product. It takes a lot of work and (very often) a great deal of people. That is what I was arguing.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
The same will happen with apps written using CoreImage/Video. Some people buy Photoshop just to touch up and apply filters. If iPhoto provides this for free, there goes a part of Adobe's sales. If people start adding other tools + CoreImage/Video effects technology and releases it as freeware, or shareware or inexpensive commercial-ware, there goes another chunk of Adobe's sales. Adobe, like MS, will probably retain a 75% marketshare but losing 20% of your sales is nothing to scoff at.
Just the other day an app called Pixen (rev 2) was released. Some people used Photoshop because there are very, very few bitmap pixel editing tools out there. There goes a bit of Adobe's market. I have less need for Photoshop to create or edit sprites or icons. Pixen doesn't do everything Photoshop does but all of these little freeware/shareware apps add up and DO phase the heavyweights.
I don't think Adobe will loss 20% to smaller products because of Core technology. We can disagree on this and neither of us are right or wrong, unless you've already seen the future. Unlike browsers (where IE has over a 90% share) there are a great deal more competition in image editing apps. Just like it takes more then a renderer to make a browser, it takes more then filter algorithms (Core technologies) to make a photo app.
When an app is an industry standard it tends to be the end all, be all, everything and the kitchen sink. Photoshop has been that app. I know many people that don't use it because they don't need a "kitchen sink" approach. Thats fine, and I think its always been that way. Why spend $600 to run some filters or touch up, especially for consumers who don't want to get into the industry but simply want to get things done.
There are many levels when it comes to photo apps, from freeware to $600 and up. Browsers aren't similar. Competition is a good thing for everyone, and Core Image may offer that in the photo-field. Well, until Adobe feels the heat, if it truly does take off as you suggested, and integrates it. Then everyone wins.
Originally posted by IonYz
I didn't mention Safari did I? I mentioned WebCore being used by small groups (or individuals). Neither Apple nor Omni Group are small, they are the heavyweights. The amount of people using Shiira and Bumpercars would more then likely not scratch the surfaces in the "number game" of browser marketshare.
Microsoft dropped IE development simultaneously across platforms, they weren't scared of either WebCore or Gecko browsers. They vowed only to offer bug fixes, when needed, and ride IE as an integrated component of Windows. They didn't plan to really update IE again till Longhorn came around.
...
Apple and OmniWeb are heavy weights? They make software for 2.5% of computers users out there. And they're heavy weights? Thank you for the laugh, mister. I kinda stopped reading after that first paragraph. I might go back and read the rest of your post but it might be so funny that I'll probably fall off my chair and hurt myself.
edit: ok, I read the rest and it had a more serious feel to it.
But I stand by my prediction...some people buy Photoshop to do some very basic stuff. If that basic stuff is covered in free apps, Adobe will lose sales. If someone comes up with a bitmap editing solution + adds CoreImage for filter effects and gives it away free, Adobe will suffer.
Apple already offers Photoshop conversion in Preview...and these conversion tools are available to anyone that wants to use them. I'm not sure if the conversion preserves layers but if someone wanted, they could make a Photoshop Lite or iPhotoshop (or whatever you want to call a stripped down version of Photoshop) within a few months of Tiger's release and release it for 60$ with Photoshop compatibility and I bet quite a bunch of Mac users would flock to that app.