To Quad or not to Quad ~ that is the question

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  • Reply 41 of 51
    aphelionaphelion Posts: 736member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    The latest eServer line, which will be available globally on August 31, uses from two to 16 Power 5 processors per server computer and uses as few as one-fourth the number of chips as comparable machines from rival vendors, Armonk, New York-based IBM said in a statement.



    I wonder if the aug 31st date is significant?



    Isn't paris expo then????



    ooh goose bumps!






    August 31 !!!? I didn't notice that. Could the new Xstation be POWER 5 powered? That would certainly be a revolutionary turn of the wheel.



    I'm leaning towards a over zealous copy writer at IBM, but who knows? Could this be a new Super Server from Apple? Imagine a server that could run OSX and nine other OS's simultaneously!



    ...
  • Reply 42 of 51
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,424member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    Yeah they share a L2 cache generally.



    For a dual core version of the current chip with SMT and 1 meg L2 cache you're looking at around 125 million transistors compared to the current 58 million. Note though you're doing a bit more than just multicoring it in that example.



    Adding a second core and changing nothing else would take it to around 90 million.




    My assumption, and I think its a good one, is that a dual core chip would double the amount of cache. This is roughly equivalent to having 2 complete 970FX (+SMT) on the same chip, the main difference being that they would actually share the double sized cache and the bus interface unit. Any sharing from that would likely be offset by the communications fabric between the cores. So I maintain that an SMT-enabled 970FX w/ 1 MB cache would be ~100 million, and a dual core version would be ~200 million.



    In other words, 512K of L2 is about right for a single thread so doubling the number of threads should double the amount of L2.
  • Reply 43 of 51
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,424member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aphelion

    HOT OFF THE PRESSES ~ APPLE USES POWER 5 CHIP !!!



    Reuters



    Yahoo News



    Dual core Power 5's are coming! Is this a leak or a misprint? This comes from an IBM Press Release concerning their eServer line. They would know right!







    I think a much more likely explanation is that the author of the press release is either an idiot or has been misinterpreted. Apple does use the POWER line (in the form of the 970/970FX), and that is most likely the source of the reference.
  • Reply 44 of 51
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver...&P_Site=ibmcom





    take a look at the .pdf specs



    10 gigabit ethernet etc...



    clustering....



    sound familiar?



    all available on AUG 31...



    hmm...
  • Reply 45 of 51
    aphelionaphelion Posts: 736member
    The IBM P5 520 has two dual core POWER 5 processors which would make it a "Quad" in Apple Market-speak.



    It retails for just over $12,000 and has four hot swappable hard drive bays. It can run up to nine OS's simultaneously. Could Apple offer a version of OSX to be one of the OS's?



    Or might Apple be planning something like this:







    Perhaps an updated Apple network server for $15K? The past as prologue to the future?



    ...
  • Reply 46 of 51
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    Don't even start to believe a writer that has no idea what he's talking about. The guy substituted Power instead of PowerPC. End of speculation. It's not in the IBM Press release anywhere. It's only coming from what the writers mistake. Apple will not be offering such a machine on a 2% market share this year. Talk about a niche market.



    And no the new Xserve wont be powered by a Power 5 Processor.
  • Reply 47 of 51
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I'm suspecting a big slip up myself. On the otherhand the pdf has some really juicy tibits. The fact that they are talking about a DCM has me wondering if this is destined for Apple at all.



    What I do believe is that the release of this hardware and these machines at the end of August may have a tie in with Apple. Apple certianly needs the performance that a Power5 derived chip could offer and it is pretty obvious that would be the next step in the PowerMacs evolution. Even a single core variant of this chip, with AltiVec, is going to be rather big so maybe that is what is coming for Apple. IBM stated that there is a 24% growth in chip size due to SMT, add a larger cache and you end up with one big chip for the desktop. I just can't see Apple shipping any PC with a multichip module from the standpoint of affordability.



    All that being said though, would not a Power5 derived iMac be an absolute riot!!!!! Certainly a bit of fantasie here but such a machine would really cook the goose of the i86 market.



    Dave









    Quote:

    Originally posted by Programmer

    I think a much more likely explanation is that the author of the press release is either an idiot or has been misinterpreted. Apple does use the POWER line (in the form of the 970/970FX), and that is most likely the source of the reference.



  • Reply 48 of 51
    oldmacfanoldmacfan Posts: 501member
    The Author is very confused as to what is going on.



    That said, IBM has had several Power5 Server announcements in the past couple of months. I have been telling people on this board, that Apple and IBM have been working on two different chip lines since 2002. The first was released as the G5 based on the last version of Power4. We have seen two versions of that chip.



    The other line that they have been working on is the Power5 based PPC. Apple and IBM have been pushing this so they can catch up to AMD/Intel. Power5 chips are not going to show up in Apple's line-up, but a chip based on it will. The first version of that chip will be single core and will take the G5 past the mythical 3ghz mark.



    Now what has slowed up the release of that chip was the problems IBM had with 90nm. Now that the problem seems to be cleared up, we should see this chip as early as September. This chip was to be released by mid-summer but that didn't happen.
  • Reply 49 of 51
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    Quote:

    Now what has slowed up the release of that chip was the problems IBM had with 90nm. Now that the problem seems to be cleared up, we should see this chip as early as September. This chip was to be released by mid-summer but that didn't happen.



    To get back in the game and get ahead of the 'game' Apple NEEDED to be working on two lines simultaneously.



    It makes sense or they'd be forever behind.



    That's why they're still offering 'two for one' in the PowerMacs. It's transparent.



    If a 3-3.4 gig line of G5 mark IIs were released I could well see Apple reverting to single CPU...with dual processors as an option or further up the ladder in terms of cost.



    Hmmm. September. All the buzz was about a 9xx something cpu coming by the fall. Not many seemed to feel the 'fx' had the legs to get to/past 3 gig.



    'cept that PowerMacs will only have been shipping for three months by the time the 9xx hits.



    I hate to admit it. But perhaps we're looking at December or a 'big bang' San Fran' New Year update?



    We'll see.



    As for Quads? Apple's already done many the impossible. A Quad uber Mac could be next.



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 50 of 51
    @homenow@homenow Posts: 998member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

    To get back in the game and get ahead of the 'game' Apple NEEDED to be working on two lines simultaneously....



    Yes, but the two lines were should be in the Consumer and the Pro lines, or desktop and portable lines. We have the Pro line of processors, and potentially the desktop, though that is not proven at this date. We do not have a portable, and by Apples account we might not have it for some time in the way of the 970. Could it be that there is a nother processor in the works? Sure there is the Power5 decendant, but what about a "low Power 970" or something all together different from Moto? I do note that Apple has yet to really denounce Moto/Freescale for the situation that they put Apple in with the G4, even though some of Steves and Co's comments could have been interpreted in a way that a formal "parting of ways" was coming and it wouldn't be without a bit of bad mouthing on Apples part.
  • Reply 51 of 51
    oldmacfanoldmacfan Posts: 501member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

    'cept that PowerMacs will only have been shipping for three months by the time the 9xx hits.



    I hate to admit it. But perhaps we're looking at December or a 'big bang' San Fran' New Year update?



    Lemon Bon Bon




    If the chip goes into the iMac first, then September is legit. If the chip goes PowerMac first, then Turkey Day would be the earliest. The last PowerMac update was so lack luster with new technology, that it wouldn't suprise me if Apple updated it in less than 6 months time.



    Now San Fran would be 2005, Steve did say that this year would be huge, so I suspect that he will push for December at the earliest.
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