$2600, Apple vs. Dell
For $2600, this is what you get when comparing an Apple and a Dell tower:
Dual 1.8 Ghz G5 vs. P4 3.6GHz
1 Year Warranty vs. 3 Year Warranty
512 MB RAM vs. 1GB RAM
160 GB HD vs. 250GB Serial HD
8x DVD+RW vs. 48x CDRW Drive+12xDVD+RW/R
17" LCD vs. 19" LCD
128MB ATI Radeon 9600 vs. 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
Dual 1.8 Ghz G5 vs. P4 3.6GHz
1 Year Warranty vs. 3 Year Warranty
512 MB RAM vs. 1GB RAM
160 GB HD vs. 250GB Serial HD
8x DVD+RW vs. 48x CDRW Drive+12xDVD+RW/R
17" LCD vs. 19" LCD
128MB ATI Radeon 9600 vs. 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
Comments
Originally posted by dferigmu
For $2600, this is what you get when comparing an Apple and a Dell tower:
Dual 1.8 Ghz G5 vs. P4 3.6GHz
1 Year Warranty vs. 3 Year Warranty
512 MB RAM vs. 1GB RAM
160 GB HD vs. 250GB Serial HD
8x DVD+RW vs. 48x CDRW Drive+12xDVD+RW/R
17" LCD vs. 19" LCD
128MB ATI Radeon 9600 vs. 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
I'm sure Apple realizes it, they just don't care about it. They care more about revenue than unit sales and marketshare, which is unfortunate IMO. Just let the numbers speak for themselves:
Apple's Q3 numbers
Year Units (k) Revenue (billion)
1999 905,000 $1.560
2000 1,016,000 $1.825
2001 827,000 $1.475
2002 808,000 $1.430
2003 771,000 $1.545
2004 876,000 $2.014
Apple's got no excuse for stagnate unit growth and shrinking marketshare, they just don't care. It's all about the benjamins. As long Mac users keep rebuying Macs, it will keep Apple alive... for a while.
Originally posted by dferigmu
For $2600, this is what you get when comparing an Apple and a Dell tower:
Dual 1.8 Ghz G5 vs. P4 3.6GHz
1 Year Warranty vs. 3 Year Warranty
512 MB RAM vs. 1GB RAM
160 GB HD vs. 250GB Serial HD
8x DVD+RW vs. 48x CDRW Drive+12xDVD+RW/R
17" LCD vs. 19" LCD
128MB ATI Radeon 9600 vs. 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
One word: Quality.
Originally posted by iPeon
One word: Quality.
Do you think the average person knows that or even cares?
Originally posted by dferigmu
Do you think the average person knows that or even cares?
I don't want to be an average person.
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
Don't treat us like we're children now. We need more info.
Does the P4 system have PCI-X?
Does the P4 system have FW800
Does the P4 system have an aluminum case?
Does the P4 system have dual processors?
Does the P4 system have point to point FSB?
Does the P4 system have OSX included?
With computers I'm more worried about what isn't easy to upgrade if you know what I mean.
I don't want to be an average person.
Pretty much says it all doesn't it. Do you want to be yet another joe schmoe with a Dell running winblows or do you want to compute in style?
Originally posted by hmurchison
Do you want to be yet another joe schmoe with a Dell running winblows or do you want to compute in style?
I believe the point by dferigmu was not that we should all stop using Macs and get Dells because Dells give you more bang for the buck. Rather, it's just evidence of why most people don't buy Macs.
Originally posted by bborofka
I believe the point by dferigmu was not that we should all stop using Macs and get Dells because Dells give you more bang for the buck. Rather, it's just evidence of why most people don't buy Macs.
Well recently he's been unhappy about the pricing of Apple gear. We all go through this at different times. It's only natural to want " champagne on a beer budget" . However the geek in me tires of useless comparisons.
If a Powermac G5 Dual is being compared to a PC that PC needs to be a dual processor as well. Sure you could argue about which one is faster but benchmarks will show that in certain apps 3.4Gz wins while in others dual 1.8Ghz would win. It's an exercise in futility.
Compare like hardware and you find that Apple's Powermacs are affordable. Some people can't swallow this bitter pill and I''m sorry about that. They need to make a decision on what's best their own particular needs but whining about price and posting a "snippet" of specs isn't going to make you look persuasive. Most of us are well versed in computer architecture to see through this.
I have a G5 and a Dell Desktop. The Dell sucks.
The quality of the Dell is really bad and the Apple has an important factor that the Dell does not have.... OS X!!!!!!
Several dormat viruses vs. 50,000 malicious ones?
Though one must admit the 17'' ACD is way too much.
Originally posted by dferigmu
Do you think the average person knows that or even cares?
The average person doesn't spend $2600 on a system.
Originally posted by Aurora
I have to weigh in here, for over 6 months i wrestled with Alienware vs Mac. On pure hardware specs alone the Pc wins but when you factor in the design of the G5, Mac OS, iLife apps the Dell cant touch Apple and the fact of trojans,worms,viruses,addware,spyware and whatever else is coming the way of Pcs its a no brainer. you can very easily end up with a $2600 paperweight. I know of 3 people who have bought Pcs this year and have paperweights. One other factor is the Mac has much better resale value then any Pc. Look at the design can you compare a cheap dell case to a Mac? nope. I would look into perhaps a crt or refurb display and go for a higher powermac. 2.0 or 2.5 then down the road bump up the video card and or memory. I have looked at this very close and the only answer i kept getting was Mac. anyways good luck.
I fully agree. I would never buy a PC. It's just that what I want when I configure a G5 is $1300 more than a Dell with similar specs. I have $2800 and I don't want to spend it all on a computer.
I'm also afraid that the iMac G5 won't turn out well, meaning it'll turn out to be a AIO with limited expansion options.
Originally posted by dferigmu
For $2600, this is what you get when comparing an Apple and a Dell tower:
Dual 1.8 Ghz G5 vs. P4 3.6GHz
1 Year Warranty vs. 3 Year Warranty
512 MB RAM vs. 1GB RAM
160 GB HD vs. 250GB Serial HD
8x DVD+RW vs. 48x CDRW Drive+12xDVD+RW/R
17" LCD vs. 19" LCD
128MB ATI Radeon 9600 vs. 256MB ATI Radeon X800 XT
Does Apple realize this? Isn't it obvious why companies like Dell are killing Apple in computer sales???
You forgot one HUGE factor:
OSX vs. XP
and the cd drives in the dell are unnesissarily redundent, unless you plan to use a 3000$ workstation as a cd duplicator, it is pointless, have one dvd burner and be done with it.
warranty: on a desktop, anything that is not right usualy shows up in the first 90 days, faster with workstations
because of constant use on demanding tasks. extended warranties are nothing other than money makers on desktops...unless you beat the hell out of your computer...
displays: what is allowable on dell displays for dead pixels, I beleve Apples limit is zero dead pixles, and I can say from first hand experiance that the picture on a studio display is better than a Dell, although the OSs and graphics hardware do have a lot to do with it.
As for video cards, the mac video cards are great for what they do: graphic arts, video, 3d and so on (APPLE DOESN'T DO GAMEING RIGS)
the only point you make that is valid is system ram, apple, on the G5 workstation should really double the ram for the premium Powermac priceing.
<more to say>
Your dell only has one cpu, the apple has 2, and the fsp tops out at 800, but would most likely on a dell be ~400, the apple has ~933 fsb on the low end and 1.25ghz on the high end.
software:
the dell has:
ms works (or office for $$$$)
music match pukebox...i mean jukebox(limited, the cheap SOBs don't even give you a full jukebox for $3000+)
quicken or m$ money (all dells I have seen include one or the other)
10 other peices of shit you are not likely to use.
and watch out, even on the high end systems, dell makes the prices seem low by includeing xp home, xp pro is at least $100+ and 2k pro is like $200 if mem. serves.
Originally posted by apple_a_day
and the cd drives in the dell are unnesissarily redundent, unless you plan to use a 3000$ workstation as a cd duplicator, it is pointless, have one dvd burner and be done with it.
More hardware, more options is bad folks.
warranty: on a desktop, anything that is not right usualy shows up in the first 90 days, faster with workstations
because of constant use on demanding tasks. extended warranties are nothing other than money makers on desktops...unless you beat the hell out of your computer...
Long warranties are also bad.
displays: what is allowable on dell displays for dead pixels, I beleve Apples limit is zero dead pixles, and I can say from first hand experiance that the picture on a studio display is better than a Dell, although the OSs and graphics hardware do have a lot to do with it.
Just looking at dells 15" selection they stock 8 brands including their oem branded models. Perhaps some of them compare favorably.
As for video cards, the mac video cards are great for what they do: graphic arts, video, 3d and so on (APPLE DOESN'T DO GAMEING RIGS)
You should let ATI know that. Those dolts list the 9600 under gaming, not workstation or multimedia. Who do they think they are??
That is all.
Remember too that software investment, availability and familiarity are going to play rather large rolls in your purchasing decision. If you have thousands of dollars tied into Mac software, then moving over to a PC at even half the price doesn't make sense if you have to replace it all. Now, you could argue going the other way (PC to Mac) is even harder as you have to contend with the higher box price as well as replacing critical software.
I love my Mac at work, but I won't argue that PCs, from a price/performance standpoint, are better deals. If I were to build a DIY PC box for $2,600 bucks I can assure you I can blow away any build quality advantage Apple might be able to claim over Dell. For all the Dell bashing that goes on, they aren't that bad. In general, they do tend to work just fine and they run pretty quiet too. The PM case and chassis is quite a bit better than Dell's box, no question but how much does that matter to Joe Consumer?
OSX vs XP... Each has it's advantages IMO but that is a much longer conversation. Familiarity is the key (and lots of ram doesn't hurt either...
Viruses, Spyware... The fact that X (as yet) doesn't have to contend with these is definitely a plus. If you know your way around a PC, then it's not really a problem (you just setup a couple of apps to whack this stuff in the background) but if you don't... then you will, inevitably, run into problems at some point. My only concern with X is general complacency many Apple users have towards viruses and other malicious code. I mean, how many even own a virus checker proggy? My fear is that if (when?) a nasty virus was ever released into the Mac community - it would be devastating. So few people would even know what to do and very likely mistake it for some other computer problem.
Just my 2 bits,
C.
Of course this is what they say... You can always go persuasive and kind of make the apple care person sway to your reasoning.
Not if you factor in total cost of ownership as well as productivity... Obviously, most people don't care about these things and would rather save a few dollars initially. Dells are for them. Burger King can coexist with three-Michelin star restaurants - it's for a different clientele.
Frankly, attempting to convert people to Macs can be a huge waste. Most people who are going to benefit from a Mac (graphic designers, artists, filmmakers, animators) are already on the platform, or at least considering switching. People who are loaded with stereotypes and negative attitudes about Macs use their computers at such a remedial level that paying money for a more capable operating system and nicer hardware is a waste. Joe the farmer in Iowa doesn't need a PowerBook to type a letter to his grain buyer every harvest. Grandma checking e-mail doesn't need a dual G5.
Dismiss this as typical Mac elitism if you want, but I'm really just being practical about the whole Mac evangelism issue. After all, the end result of threads like this one is... nothing. Dell users are content with their lower-priced, less capable, and shoddily made machines, and that's fine with me. As long as Apple continues to post in the black and update their lineup, I could be one of a hundred Mac users in the US without complaint.
Originally posted by Concord
My fear is that if (when?) a nasty virus was ever released into the Mac community - it would be devastating. So few people would even know what to do and very likely mistake it for some other computer problem.
Create a new user id that doesn't have admin privileges. Use that user id for daily work. Disable fast user switching. Even if a virus hits, it can only corrupt files in your directory. If you have a .mac subscription you get Virex + free updates.