Airport Extreme... why no ADSL router?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
It seems that there's a standard for ADSL routers... at least, there's no danger of "My router's incompatible with my ADSL service!"...



so why don't Apple include one in Airport extreme? It'd be a great device if I could buy an Airport Extreme station and plug straight into the phone line.



I can't really justify the Apple hardware over the generic wireless routers, since I'd have to buy the Airport BS and another router.



Also, my current router has a nightmare configuration program - only works in IE5 (no, not even Safari), and doesn't let you edit anything - you have to delete the whole configuration and re-enter it. Apple software would be ideal for that!





Amorya
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 36
    mingeminge Posts: 7member
    The AEBS does include a router - it does not include a ADSL modem however. So at the moment you need to get an ADSL (often provided by the ISP) and an AEBS.
  • Reply 2 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Minge

    The AEBS does include a router - it does not include a ADSL modem however. So at the moment you need to get an ADSL (often provided by the ISP) and an AEBS.



    Yeah, but you can't use an ADSL modem with an Airport basestation - you need an ADSL router. And since a wireless router's additional cost is negligible, I can't justify buying the Apple product as well.



    Don't forget that if you use an ADSL modem, it plugs in via USB... which means that either a computer has to share it (therefore acting as router, and again rendering the Airport BS next to useless), or you can only use it with one computer.



    (If I'm not mistaken, the USB port on the base station will only take a printer, not a modem.)





    Amorya
  • Reply 3 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorya

    Yeah, but you can't use an ADSL modem with an Airport basestation - you need an ADSL router. And since a wireless router's additional cost is negligible, I can't justify buying the Apple product as well.



    Don't forget that if you use an ADSL modem, it plugs in via USB... which means that either a computer has to share it (therefore acting as router, and again rendering the Airport BS next to useless), or you can only use it with one computer.



    (If I'm not mistaken, the USB port on the base station will only take a printer, not a modem.)





    Amorya




    Get a real ADSL modem and it uses Ethernet, not USB. Unfortunately, your ISP gave you the idiot version that they give to people who don't ask. Anyway, there are ways to make a USB DSL modem work with the base station, but they aren't as easy as if you had gotten an ethernet modem to begin with.
  • Reply 4 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by I Have Questions

    Get a real ADSL modem and it uses Ethernet, not USB. Unfortunately, your ISP gave you the idiot version that they give to people who don't ask. Anyway, there are ways to make a USB DSL modem work with the base station, but they aren't as easy as if you had gotten an ethernet modem to begin with.



    No, I asked and got the Ethernet version... my point is, if you have the ethernet router, you don't need the Airport! As I said before, the difference in price between a wired and a wireless ethernet ADSL router is about a tenner. There's no reason at all to get a wired router and a separate Airport basestation.



    Amorya
  • Reply 5 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorya

    No, I asked and got the Ethernet version... my point is, if you have the ethernet router, you don't need the Airport! As I said before, the difference in price between a wired and a wireless ethernet ADSL router is about a tenner. There's no reason at all to get a wired router and a separate Airport basestation.



    Amorya






    I dont think your gonna get whatever it is your looking for until you make some sense.. first off, i had adsl before, and it worked fine with airport, I plugged the ethernet out from the adsl into the wan in on the airport, thats it.. second you switch between routers, and wireless and ethernet. you say if you have a wired router, no need for basestation, well, there is if you want WIRELESS. but if you have airport extreme, THAT will be a router for both a wired and wireless system... at this point, no one I think knows what you are saying wont work bceause you contradict yourself.
  • Reply 6 of 36
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Sure, you can get a combo ADSL 'modem' slash router slash wireless access point if you want...



    Buying an Apple AirPort Base Station or other brands gives you flexibility.



    1) It's easier to use than most other access points.

    2) You may have DSL now, but what if you get cable later? You're going to need a cable 'modem' anyway.

    3) What if you just want to upgrade to a newer ADSL 'modem?' Lots or people who rent their hardware do this.

    4) What if you want more flexible placement options? Maybe your DSL comes into your home office, but you want to run an ethernet cable through a conduit to your living room and place the wireless AP there? Running an extra long phone line is inadvisable.
  • Reply 7 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    OK, it seems I didn't know you could get an ethernet modem that wasn't a router. I've never come across such a device... all the ISPs I've looked at have only offered a USB modem or an Ethernet router.



    But I still think Apple should add the ADSL modem to the base station. They have a landline modem... I bet more people would use an ADSL one.



    It wouldn't _lose_ any flexibility, since you'd still be able to use the ethernet port for WAN access if you want (eg if you got cable)...



    Amorya
  • Reply 8 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene



    3) What if you just want to upgrade to a newer ADSL 'modem?' Lots or people who rent their hardware do this.




    Why would you upgrade? The only difference between ADSL modems that I can see is the setup interface... I'm pretty sure you don't get different speeds of them like you did with landline modems.



    Amorya
  • Reply 9 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorya

    OK, it seems I didn't know you could get an ethernet modem that wasn't a router. I've never come across such a device... all the ISPs I've looked at have only offered a USB modem or an Ethernet router.



    But I still think Apple should add the ADSL modem to the base station. They have a landline modem... I bet more people would use an ADSL one.



    It wouldn't _lose_ any flexibility, since you'd still be able to use the ethernet port for WAN access if you want (eg if you got cable)...



    Amorya




    but there are some minor differences with modems themselves, not all modems work with all cable or telephone companies.
  • Reply 10 of 36
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Perhaps I'm confused here but let me see if I have this straight.



    I use Verizon DSL



    It comes with a Westel ADSL "modem"



    I then pump this into a netgear RT614 4 port router which I have two computers accessing the ADSL from.





    Are you saying your provider has the option for a "modem" with wireless features built in? If so that's really cool and would save devices. Because right now going wireless still takes "Modem" to Airport usually.
  • Reply 11 of 36
    faust9faust9 Posts: 1,335member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Perhaps I'm confused here but let me see if I have this straight.



    I use Verizon DSL



    It comes with a Westel ADSL "modem"



    I then pump this into a netgear RT614 4 port router which I have two computers accessing the ADSL from.





    Are you saying your provider has the option for a "modem" with wireless features built in? If so that's really cool and would save devices. Because right now going wireless still takes "Modem" to Airport usually.




    2wire makes such a beast (it's what I use). DSL in, ethernet/USB/Wireless out. Yipee. It's .11b which is fast enough for the net however .11g so I could chit-chat(ie send files to burn onto DVD because my iBook only has the combo drive) with my Linux box would be better.



    Here: http://www.2wire.com/ It seems they make a .11g version now.
  • Reply 12 of 36
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Perhaps I'm confused here but let me see if I have this straight.



    I use Verizon DSL



    It comes with a Westel ADSL "modem"



    I then pump this into a netgear RT614 4 port router which I have two computers accessing the ADSL from.





    Are you saying your provider has the option for a "modem" with wireless features built in? If so that's really cool and would save devices. Because right now going wireless still takes "Modem" to Airport usually.




    yea, Verizon recently began offering wireless enabled modems.
  • Reply 13 of 36
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorya

    Why would you upgrade? The only difference between ADSL modems that I can see is the setup interface... I'm pretty sure you don't get different speeds of them like you did with landline modems.



    Amorya




    If I switch from a DSL provider to a cable, powerline, wireless, satellite ISP, a DSL modem is kind of useless.



    If I want features only offered in new hardware, I would have to upgrade. For example if you want IPTV over DSL, you may need a new unit. If I want VOIP with my cable modem, I could get a new cable modem that has that built-in. I recently upgraded from a DOCSIS 1.1 RCA DCM-215 cable modem to a DOCSIS 2.0 certified Motorola SB5100.
  • Reply 14 of 36
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorya

    OK, it seems I didn't know you could get an ethernet modem that wasn't a router. I've never come across such a device... all the ISPs I've looked at have only offered a USB modem or an Ethernet router.



    This is a photo of the only DSL modem I have ever owned.







    The RJ11 is for the DSL. The first RJ45 port is for an ATMF-25 interface. The second is 10Base-T ethernet. And then there's the on-switch + power. There's no USB port and no router built-in.



    Quote:

    But I still think Apple should add the ADSL modem to the base station. They have a landline modem... I bet more people would use an ADSL one.



    Why? To screw over people who have non-DSL broadband? Why should we pay another $100 for something we wouldn't use? A 56k modem costs next to nothing.



    Quote:

    It wouldn't _lose_ any flexibility, since you'd still be able to use the ethernet port for WAN access if you want (eg if you got cable)...



    In that case, why don't they include a cable modem too...and a satellite receiver...and a powerline solution because that's coming too.
  • Reply 15 of 36
    bitter, bitter, bitter.



    What apple really needs to do is cut the price on its base-stations, because there is hardly a reason for someone to get a base-station over an airport express right now.
  • Reply 16 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Perhaps I'm confused here but let me see if I have this straight.



    I use Verizon DSL



    It comes with a Westel ADSL "modem"



    I then pump this into a netgear RT614 4 port router which I have two computers accessing the ADSL from.





    Are you saying your provider has the option for a "modem" with wireless features built in? If so that's really cool and would save devices. Because right now going wireless still takes "Modem" to Airport usually.




    My provider doesn't give you a free modem/router/anything... you can pay extra and buy one from them, or you can buy one from elsewhere. Actually, I had an old Graphite base-station, so I bought an ADSL Router, and am using the Airport just as a wireless bridge.



    I have quite a few friends who opted for a wireless ADSL router/modem/thingy. Since it's just one device and cheaper than Airport, it saves money and wires.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Eugene

    This is a photo of the only DSL modem I have ever owned.







    The RJ11 is for the DSL. The first RJ45 port is for an ATMF-25 interface. The second is 10Base-T ethernet. And then there's the on-switch + power. There's no USB port and no router built-in.





    Why? To screw over people who have non-DSL broadband? Why should we pay another $100 for something we wouldn't use? A 56k modem costs next to nothing.




    Another $100? I'm sure they don't cost nearly that much for a company to bulk-buy. At Maplin an ADSL modem costs £29 ($50 or so) and the equivalent brand 56k modem costs £24. And that's direct to the consumer, complete with Maplin's extortionate markup, and in Britain where everything costs the earth anyway. Dabs.co.uk has modems for £23, and the cheapest router for £27. Their cheapest wireless modem/router is £46.



    I don't understand why you're all arguing against this. I know hundreds of people who have ADSL - pretty much every student house in Coventry does. I know one person who has cable, and it's because he works for a cable company so gets it free.



    Incidentally, my university provides the wireless router/modem combo device for all the houses it manages. I'm not moving to a managed house, so will have to purchase my own router. (The one at home belongs to my parents, although the Graphite Airport BS is mine).



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Imergingenious

    bitter, bitter, bitter.



    What apple really needs to do is cut the price on its base-stations, because there is hardly a reason for someone to get a base-station over an airport express right now.




    Then get the Airport Express



    I would, if I was buying another Airport device.



    That's why I think they should put the ADSL modem in the Airport Extreme basestation, btw - people who want a low cost solution would get Express, and people who wanted all the features would get Extreme.



    Amorya
  • Reply 17 of 36
    Adding ADSL capabilities to the Airport Express would not be the trivial matter you seem to be suggesting. While working on just such an ADSL router for Lucent several years ago, I learned a lot of the difficulties:



    1. You'll need to add a (not so very cheap) chip to handle the actual ADSL signalling.



    2. You'll have to integrate the (fairly buggy) driver that comes with the chip, and proprietary to the chip, into whatever operating system you use on the APX. This is not a trivial process.



    3. You'll have to add an ATM network stack to your software, because that is what is used over an ADSL link.



    4. You'll have to spend a LOT of time in additional testing of the unit. Testing each of the 4 (or more now) variants of ADSL signalling protocols, against a wide variety of end points (DSLAMs, whatever).



    This isn't the business Apple wants to be in.



    John
  • Reply 18 of 36
    mr.limemr.lime Posts: 1member
    Yes! Apple really needs to cut down the prices of Base stations. Sure they are beautiful but when you can get just as good (maybe even better but not so easy to configure) alternatives for half the price who's really going to pay for Apple hardware? Not me, but I'm poor student, so...

    I found out my old graphite base station is fried and looked for replacement. Apple solution (Extreme base, since you can't find those older .11b ones here in finland anymore) costs 228.90 ? or one can buy Airport Express for 149 ? compared to what I'm going for at the price of 53,90 ? (Belkin wireless router with 4 RJ-45 ports). Sure it's bulkier, uglier and probably harder to configure but for about one third of the price of Express (and about 1/4 of the price of AEBS) I really don't even need to think about this.

    Come on Apple, the prices are just too high! 56K modem doesn't really cost that much and there must be some limit of how much you can charge for cool Apple logo...



    Mr. Lime



    ps. I'd buy it if I had the money but I don't, poor me
  • Reply 19 of 36
    Basically, Im a cable user and I dont want anything unneccesary added to the airport.



    It will cost more, and make the product larger.



    And if YOU have to pay for the modem from ur ISP, maybe its time to get a new one. Most let u have a modem for free with the purcase of their service.
  • Reply 20 of 36
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by zpapasmurf

    Basically, Im a cable user and I dont want anything unneccesary added to the airport.



    It will cost more, and make the product larger.



    And if YOU have to pay for the modem from ur ISP, maybe its time to get a new one. Most let u have a modem for free with the purcase of their service.




    My ISP has a great service, and is the fifth cheapest in the UK. That's precisely because they don't give you a modem, and other stuff you may not need. You get an ADSL connection that's reliable, some webspace, email services, and that's it. No extras.



    Re your first point: why do you not complain about the modem being in Airport? What about power-over-ethernet? (I'm assuming you don't use that.)



    Apple have long gone for the technique of making their devices do a heck of a lot, and if you need the functionality then that's great. I don't hear people complaining that their G5 comes with digital sound when all they do is use Word!



    (The debate about iMacs including monitors is the exception, I'll admit )
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