Apple Tablet PC

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  • Reply 61 of 170
    Hmmmm....I will chime in with my $0.02. Let me preface this by saying that my slant will be that from the perspective of a scientist.



    I spend a lot of time reading papers (.pdf format) or going to talks to watch .ppt presentations.



    I like to draw on the papers that I read - underline, circle things, make comments in the margins. I have many, many .pdf files on my laptop but I have to print them out to effectively read them. This could be facilitated with some sort of a tablet interface where I could use a "pen" to make my comments directly......



    Also, when going to a talk, if I could put the .ppt file on my tablet, then I can take notes directly on the slides as the speaker presents his/her work.



    Or, for medical doctors.....patient charts can be digitized instead of in a three-ring binder.



    I honestly think that hybrid laptop/tablets will be the way to go in the future.



    -Dr. Bimane
  • Reply 62 of 170
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    That's what's so frustrating about Tablet PC right now, they can be used to mark things up, but the marks aren't really intelligent, they don't signify things to happen or record digitally. They're just dumb marks.



    Actually, I think the red herring here, if there is one, is the pen. What's more important to me is the direct manipulation with the screen. What's funny about the mouse isn't its shape, it's its location. Wouldn't it be easier to point at a folder on screen to move it rather than wiggle the thing on your right to manipulate some effigy (pointer) to do the same thing? From that point of view, a pen input's strength isn't in writing, it's in point and click, or as Apple puts it, direct manipulation.



    In the end, I don't oppose a tablet concept, just that I think there are inherent limitations of the idea. When CAD and computers hit the architecture world, there were people who swore up and down that the pencil was dead and we would never use trace or build physical models again. There were of course people who felt that computers would spell the end of the profession too. The wiser ones realized that computers would change the design process, but that it was a complement to older means and methods too. I think tablet/pen/touch screen input has the same complementary relationship. It won't supplant most methods of input, but it will sit next to them as a peer. In that way, I think an explicit tablet PC is too limited in scope to be a "real" computer. In Steve Jobs terms, it would be a computer "junior" experience.
  • Reply 63 of 170
    I've owned two tablet PCs ( a Motion Computing 1200 and a Toshiba 3505) and I went back to using a Powerbook for four reasons:



    1) Handwriting recognition performance is very poor. The old Newton 2100 has better recognition performance than the current TPCs. While capturing notes in ink is OK for some applications, most folks need to use type written text for business purposes; the low recognition performance of the TPCs is a barrier to using them for routine business.



    2) Digitizer performance is poor near the edge of the screens. Most applications group their control functions (scroll bars, menus, etc.) near the edge of the screen. These are difficult to access reliably wit the current round of TPCs.



    3) Import/export features between applications that use ink (e.g., Journal and One Note) are primitive. This is also a barrier to business applications - many folks can't commit to placing mission critical data on a TPC, because they may not be able to access it in esktop applications.



    4) Eye fatigue is a problem. Current TPCs use screens whose digitizers require the LCD surface to be located a few millimeters below the actual surface of the screen. This is distracting, because most folks tend to look at the tip of the pen as they write, just like they do with paper.



    It would be great if Apple made a tablet computer, but unless they address these issues, then it won't be worth the effort
  • Reply 64 of 170
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    I've had similar experiences on my toshiba. I dont think that the tablet concept is going to fly outside of niche markets ( doctors, presentations ), and I think that a tablet that uses a desktop OS is absolutely doomed.



    I rather enjoyed my Newton, and perhaps it would work well on a larger screen.



    I wonder if the most minimal possible interface would work. Literally a white ( or other color ) screen that you can draw on ( and have text recognised ). No menus. I can see a need for a previous and next page button, and a transmit button ( to share with other tablets ).



    Any integration with other apps needs to be achieved on a 'real' computer.
  • Reply 65 of 170
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by willcurrie

    I think it was true it would be on the rumors sites already... I mean those retail guys are not exactly in the loop...



    apple retail stores - the best place to scope out the future of in rumor forums, yeah... what else?
  • Reply 66 of 170
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    I think a tablet should be two screens. One normal color and one B&W touch screen. You can draw on the one and use the color for more 'normal' computing. I have to think a normal screen plus a B&W screen would be a lot cheaper than one high quality color touch screen.
  • Reply 67 of 170
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Dr.Bimane

    Hmmmm....I will chime in with my $0.02. Let me preface this by saying that my slant will be that from the perspective of a scientist.



    I spend a lot of time reading papers (.pdf format) or going to talks to watch .ppt presentations.



    I like to draw on the papers that I read - underline, circle things, make comments in the margins. I have many, many .pdf files on my laptop but I have to print them out to effectively read them. This could be facilitated with some sort of a tablet interface where I could use a "pen" to make my comments directly......



    Also, when going to a talk, if I could put the .ppt file on my tablet, then I can take notes directly on the slides as the speaker presents his/her work.





    As a fellow scientist, I can't agree more. The ability to have the source material for a presnetation available for additional markup would be great.

    I guess the new MS office is thinking in this direction, not that I've paid Redmond for another upgrade yet.



    Our needs are what really most students face in the classroom as well. One day they will sit down with their pads, wirelessly download the presentation that has been prepared by the prof and then start taking notes on it, all while recording the audio of the lecture. What more could you want other than direct feed into the brain so we don't actualy have to work at learning-maybe in version 2.0.
  • Reply 68 of 170
    vox barbaravox barbara Posts: 2,021member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    ...Calming down, let me add ... Steve is on the record saying tablets, PDAs and an Apple iPhone are not on the cards. ...



    Perhaps, but that doesn't mean he is right this time AND the "apple tablet computer" (i dislike the title "tabletPC) is not in the drawer either. It is all about marketing. And concerning apple: TRUE marketing with FALSE arguments.

    There is a market for tablet computers, but apple/Mr Jobs just couldn't stand it,

    that he couldn't advertise the "apple tablet computer" with

    "hey we are the first. we proudly introduce the first tablet pc in history." Simple as that, believe me



    Seriously, i definitly say: an "Apple tablet" WOULD be a very good add to the entire apple line. I recently worked with a HP TabletPc and i have pretty much to say: nice piece of technology (i don't mean the OS which operates the gadget)



    Granted there are some issues with the recognition engine which runs under the hood. But there is nothing that couldn't be fixed in the near future.

    Though, the ability to draw and to sketch something quickly is worth it alone. This feature is pretty usefull for creative people all range, - meetings, conferences, generall research, and so on)



    best
  • Reply 69 of 170
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Essentially isn't the tablet just a newton on crack?



    Apple was the first to market and they took a famous bath on it. Unlikely to repeat that past fiasco apple will probably sit out the tablet idea. Unless there is such strong demand for tablets or something else that is innovative that they can bring to market
  • Reply 70 of 170
    jousterjouster Posts: 460member
    It seems to me that the biggest argument against Apple releasing a tablet comp anytime soon is that Steve has said they won't, and he is not the most flexible of characters....



    However, wading through the morass of argument and invective in this thread, it's possible to conclude (at least in my opinion) that:



    Kickaha and the sceptics are correct - design is a problem, non-keyboard input is still clumsy, text recognition is at best unreliable, screen tech is not yet adequate, markets are not well defined and so on.



    Equally, Vox Barbara and the supporters are correct - tablets better imitate the millenia-old method of information presentation, the ability to write directly onto documents could be invaluable, keyboards are a century old abomination deliberately designed to be inefficient, and so on.



    So where's the problem incorporating both viewpoints in a device? There are already hybrid tablets that dock with keyboards when required and stand alone when not. Sure, they are underpowered, heavy and overpriced, but they won't always be. The sort of technology required to make a thin, light, powerful device is surely not so far away: OLED screens, sufficient solid state memory, decent speech recognition, better HW recognition, better battery solutions, that sort of thing. Plugging in a keyboard to write a large document would be trivial. Once the document is done, the device could easily be detached and used in any room for any task.



    I'm thinking here of a device that wouldn't complement the desktop in the home, but would rather replace it. It would be hard to pigeonhole such a device, as it would effectively be a desktop when you wanted it to be, a tablet when you etc etc.



    When I wonder to myself if such a device is feasible, at least technologically, I just glance over at my two decade-old tandy color computer. My TiBook is more powerful by many orders of magnitude only 18 years after the Tandy was released.
  • Reply 71 of 170
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jouster





    I'm thinking here of a device that wouldn't complement the desktop in the home, but would rather replace it. It would be hard to pigeonhole such a device, as it would effectively be a desktop when you wanted it to be, a tablet when you etc etc.



    When I wonder to myself if such a device is feasible, at least technologically, I just glance over at my two decade-old tandy color computer. My TiBook is more powerful by many orders of magnitude only 18 years after the Tandy was released.




    The good folks at apple think so too!



    This was developed as a vision idea by apple in 1988 or so.



    http://www.bu.edu/jlengel/kn65kfs.mov
  • Reply 72 of 170
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TednDi

    The good folks at apple think so too!



    This was developed as a vision idea by apple in 1988 or so.



    http://www.bu.edu/jlengel/kn65kfs.mov




    I hope it was not lost on you that the QuickTime movie was set sometime in the future after 2006. I hope that you also noticed that the professor in the video communicated with the Knowledge Navigator by interactive voice and by touch, and not by handwriting.



    As to the general proposition of a PowerTablet (my name for Apple's take on the TabletPC), I think that it is a bad idea masquerading as vision. Handwriting as data input is fine for UPS delivery personnel. It is great for graphic artists using Wacom tablets. However, most of the tasks assigned to computers today do not lend themselves to handwriting as an input method. Handwriting is good for taking notes on paper, but almost everyone types faster and more clearly than they write. One can perhaps conceive of specialized tasks for which handwriting is the superior solution. For those, specialty vendors will provide solution if it makes economic sense for them to do so. I can conceive of no circumstance under which a general purpose mobile computer will be an economically viable solution.



    P.S. A popular accessary for PDAs is an attachable keyboard.
  • Reply 73 of 170
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Okay, I don't know how this thread got so long without the obligatory "The Newton can do all that" post. So here it is.



    The Newton can do all that. Mine has an ethernet card in it which I can plug in when ethernet is available, and a keyboard which I can plug in if I feel like typing. I can print on printers. I can carry the Newton everywhere I go and make lists, compare prices, etc. OK, syncing is a little weak (with NewtSync, TextSync, TodoSync, etc.) but that's a software issue on the Mac side, and things are getting better.



    The Newton has a big 8" screen. Batteries (4 AA NiMHs) last about a week. The best thing is that, unlike other PDAs, you will never lose any data, because everything is on flash memory, not battery-backed-up RAM.



    I'd like an Apple subnotebook, and indeed that might replace the Newton. But today's PDAs are just too small and weak; today's tablet PCs are too bulky and expensive.
  • Reply 74 of 170
    jousterjouster Posts: 460member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Okay, I don't know how this thread got so long without the obligatory "The Newton can do all that" post. So here it is.



    The Newton can do all that.....






    So can my Clie - wirelessly, and in color.



    I think that what we're all trying to describe (or deride) is differentiated mostly by size. No matter the level of technology, a PDA screen is not suited to most multimedia operations simply because it's too small. The future tablet I am hoping for will effectively be a full-featured computer. It won't be a desktop replacement because there won't be (except for very specialized uses) any desktops any more.
  • Reply 75 of 170
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    I hope it was not lost on you that the QuickTime movie was set sometime in the future after 2006. I hope that you also noticed that the professor in the video communicated with the Knowledge Navigator by interactive voice and by touch, and not by handwriting.



    As to the general proposition of a PowerTablet (my name for Apple's take on the TabletPC), I think that it is a bad idea masquerading as vision. Handwriting as data input is fine for UPS delivery personnel. It is great for graphic artists using Wacom tablets. However, most of the tasks assigned to computers today do not lend themselves to handwriting as an input method. Handwriting is good for taking notes on paper, but almost everyone types faster and more clearly than they write. One can perhaps conceive of specialized tasks for which handwriting is the superior solution. For those, specialty vendors will provide solution if it makes economic sense for them to do so. I can conceive of no circumstance under which a general purpose mobile computer will be an economically viable solution.



    P.S. A popular accessary for PDAs is an attachable keyboard.








    Nope, none of that was lost on me, and I think that at present it is a goofy idea perhaps in 2011 when (and if) viable speech recognition comes into its own then the tablet may make more sense.
  • Reply 76 of 170
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    The compelling thing for me about Tablets are not so much the input of words and such, but being able to draw, scribble and edit text and graphics with a pen. As pdf's become more and more expansive and omnipresent, the OS that can best manipulate them, will have a leg up on the others ... whether that is in the form of a standalone Tablet or as a cheap periferal doesn't matter to me so much, though i'd like to have a computer that doesn't need me to type stuff in .... oh that's a multimedia player / web-browser.
  • Reply 77 of 170
    dgnr8dgnr8 Posts: 196member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Given ALL the hard work that Apple's done to date in supporting iSync-ing with Nextel devices I'm 100% sure this stuff is "totally fer-real"



    Sorry but someone is pulling your leg my friend.



    Dave




    I find it very funny that I was in a small way laughed at about the apple tablet and also pocket pc phone with nextel. Now I read that moto and apple are teaming up to put iTunes on moto phones, and considering that moto makes all of nextels phones it leaves me to wonder... maby that "Apple Employee" was so full of it after all. I mean it is not a pc type phone but you have got to get your foot in the door, and this could lead to further development. Well now I feel just a bit vendicated. Seems to me there may be more here than meets the eye.
  • Reply 78 of 170
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DGNR8

    I find it very funny that I was in a small way laughed at about the apple tablet and also pocket pc phone with nextel. Now I read that moto and apple are teaming up to put iTunes on moto phones, and considering that moto makes all of nextels phones it leaves me to wonder... maby that "Apple Employee" was so full of it after all. I mean it is not a pc type phone but you have got to get your foot in the door, and this could lead to further development. Well now I feel just a bit vendicated. Seems to me there may be more here than meets the eye.



    Reading for comprehension: I was LAUGHING at Apples TOTAL LACK OF SUPPORT FOR NEXTEL. A sore point with me and HAS BEEN for a very long time!!



    Dave
  • Reply 79 of 170
    Yeah, those might only be some humble store employees but they just might know more than some AI Board "pundits." heh heh. Funny how things change in a couple of days.
  • Reply 80 of 170
    dgnr8dgnr8 Posts: 196member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Reading for comprehension: I was LAUGHING at Apples TOTAL LACK OF SUPPORT FOR NEXTEL. A sore point with me and HAS BEEN for a very long time!!



    Dave




    Tsk, Tsk who needs to calm down now? "Reading for Comprehension" I don't exactly how you intended this to be taken, but do not talk down to me or be so condescending. You are no better than I.
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