The haters offer their assessment. The forums are ablaze with vitriolic rage. Haters pan the device for being less powerful than a Cray X1 while zealots counter that it is both smaller and lighter than a Buick Regal. The virtual slap-fight goes on and on, until obscure technical nuances like, ?Will it play multiplexed Ogg Vorbis streams?? become matters of life and death.
Yeah well Bozo has not only brought Apple back to financial health but took Pixar from a company peddling $170 3D tools(Typestry) to one of the most influential companies of today. Game recognize game. You wouldn't understand brilliance because you are not brilliant yourself.
...on to your regularly scheduled program.
I guess brilliant is taking your computer company from #1 to now #9 or hows this brilliant is running out of old stale G4 imacs when you have nothing to replace them with. yeah your right i aint brilliant
Steve did not exactly "lead" Pixar to their present success. He bought it more or less on a flyer and sort of left it alone (sometimes this is inspired management) and was pleasanty surprised when the company started hitting home runs.
His record as a manager is somewhat checkered however. What he does best is not really management anyway.
This is why all in ones dont sell like towers and seperate monitors. This simple little fact seems to slip by Jobs' brilliance. He has talents in other areas. Managing a business isnt one of them.
Apple is brilliant like that student who doesn't show up for half the tests, writes disorganized papers in the five minutes before class, but just once sits down and turns in an assignment that is absolutely head and shoulders above everything else out there.
You average all the scores together and it is a C or D maybe. So do you as the teacher just give that grade and wash your hands of it? Or do you give an A because he provided the only truly inspired moment in the whole semester? Or do you give an F because so much potential was wasted?
I get the impression that the average consumer tends to do the first, and members of this board tend to the second or third depending.
<Sarcasm> Yeah, I don't know why Steve doesn't just retire and let a committee of AI contributors run Apple. It's obvious the 10,000 people who work there do nothing all day but sit in meetings to plan how to alienate existing and future customers, "loose" market share, and destroy the company they all work for.
Why can't they get it through their thick skulls that gamers are the largest market for computers and that an upgradeable video card and fast bus are the two primary factors in typical consumers' computer purchase decisions? Software? Operating system? Actually *doing something* with a computer? Jeez, everyone knows that Doom frame rates are the key differentiating factor for computer users, who -amazingly- are almost all male and under age 25. Word processors, browsers, e-mail programs, spreadsheets, "digital hub" applications? Those are for your grandparents - who cares how those work on a Mac!
Every junior high kid with a keyboard knows how to fix Apple. It never ceases to amaze how Apple execs have it so wrong while many AI contributors could fix Apple with their mousing hands tied behind their backs.
1. Getting booted from the company you founded and creating NeXT which would then be sold to Apple for 400 million.
2. Investing heavily in Pixar when they were nobody and growing the business to todays present state
3. Taking over Apple computer, that had lost most of its talent and was blowing in the wind , and restoring it back to healthy finances
Qualifies as dumb luck. Like SJ or not the man has marketing skills and an eye for keeping good talent around. That and strategic planning a CEOs job people and Steve does that with the best of them. If you think you can do a better job create your own company and go do it.
<more sarcasm>Also nevermind the fact that Motorola and contracts with them contributed enormously to the dogged performance of these computers. Why didn't Steve just design his own chip. He's a loser and a fool. Why didn't Steve know ahead of time the trouble with Motorola and design the Power 4 five years ago? And why don't they drop the price of their computers to the level of Dell? I mean it must not cost that much to develop hardware and software at all. Geez all they need to do is slap some parts together for the hardware. And how much does innovating and creating great software really cost anyway? I mean they just buy software and slap their names on it right? What a bunch of losers.</more sarcasm>
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
great Voxapps!
Oh somehow I don't think
1. Getting booted from the company you founded and creating NeXT which would then be sold to Apple for 400 million.
2. Investing heavily in Pixar when they were nobody and growing the business to todays present state
3. Taking over Apple computer, that had lost most of its talent and was blowing in the wind , and restoring it back to healthy finances
Qualifies as dumb luck. Like SJ or not the man has marketing skills and an eye for keeping good talent around. That and strategic planning a CEOs job people and Steve does that with the best of them. If you think you can do a better job create your own company and go do it.
Just sell a fucking 17 inch monitor and inexpensive tower. It isnt goddamn rocket science for Christ sakes.
Nope it aint rocket science, it's about $US600, tons of competition & no profit margin
Quote:
Heres some of my problems with all in ones:
monitor goes=goodbye computer
replace something simple like a battery=good luck
need a new interface like USB2=sorry
need a new graphics card=sorry
yeah i just struck No 1!! - my 1997 603e 250mhz Performa is now junk cos th monitors stuffing up grrr!! talk about wasteful...
& i've had No 2 -battery died in my 1995 603 75mhz Performa so th date's wrong & i can't be bothered opening it up to put a new $US15 one in grrr!! wot a hassle...
as for No 3 - i've had that on my G3 -grrr!! wot a - oh wait that isn't an all-in-one anyway [& th consumers didn't know they had USB1 on their PC motherboards till iMac 1 exploded th peripherals market & exposed th "need", at least there are alternatives like firewire now, not just ADB & PC serial...]
No 4 - perennial problem alrite - got it on my 1994 G4 1.2ghz iBook already - can't play "skycaptainetc" game cos it needs 64megs video ram (& 1.25ghz G4) grrr!! wot a fraud... outadate piece of hardware junk i knew there'd be something it couldn't do i really NEED
Quote:
This is why all in ones dont sell like towers and seperate monitors.
No, they outsell nowadaze don't they, laptop sales over 50%?
and as for having no "outdated, underperforming" G4 iMacs on sale in an oversupplied, overcrowded market segment for wha? - a whole month or so (still in shops here) - surely that's doing potential buyers a favour? better a wait than a second-rate buy. & perhaps building a little anticipation will help nu iMac sales. & i don't see "headless" as a brilliant answer to fill th desktop gap between laptops & Powermac towers, certainly hope Apple has a great (new,clever,exciting) G5 machine that will grab a few newbies or undecideds - maybe even confirmed Mac users - & if 17" LCDs are still in vogue then have a model using them.
well with base powermac at $2000 bucks,no matching 17" display and then only stale weak all in ones its almost as if Apple is telling everyone with$1500 in their pocket to go somewhere else. hey wait a minute thats just what they did. brilliant way to grow your market. Numbers dont lie and this is what has happen. Apple needs a mini single cpu tower for consumers not more all in ones you cant get inside nor change anything. it serves them right they have no one to blame but Apple's suites and ties and turtlenecks.
Why didn't Steve just design his own chip. He's a loser and a fool.
Yup...with a Billion in net worth. If that's a fool and a loser then where do I sign up?
Quote:
Apple needs a mini single cpu tower for consumers not more all in ones you cant get inside nor change anything. it serves them right they have no one to blame but Apple's suites and ties and turtlenecks.
Consumer don't get in their computers and add stuff. They pay people to do it if anything. The whole "I want upgrade my computer" is bunk. Less than half who can upgrade do. Apple realizes that being able to pull an iMac out the box and have the end user surfing the internet in 15 minutes is more important than the myth of upgradability.
The iMac is tuned for the average consumer. These people peope use their computers for a few years until they get too slow and then they replace them. If you want a monitor you can keep through multiple generations of computers then buy a Powerbook or a Powermac.
3% market pretty much sums it up doesnt it. you have the best OS on the planet and your hardware owns 3% of new sales. looks to me like that number indicates a hardware problem but the zealots say NO NO more G4 more all in one we want to be the only one on the planet with a Mac. There is many reasons Apple has missed the consumer market and yet the zealots or fools wants Apple to stay on this path. amazing that they and Apple dont get it. bring on a mini consumer tower for real people not some new gimmick with last years hardware in it.
Some of you guys guys struggle with basic logic. I seriously doubt you have even the base understanding of Marketshare and how it's tabulated. Please spare us your uneducated comments on the subject.
Spin it anyway you want apple has fallen to #9 computer maker, apples consumer desk tops sell in the same qty as its professional line when they should sell at least 10 consumer models for each pro one. Apple has no iMacs to sell and no updated 17" display. play your games the consumer is KING and the consumer has spoken. only Apple isnt listening but it sure is making walkmans isnt it.
What the rest of people do for their computing needs is irrelevant as long as you can purchase the applications you need.
There is no spin. %3 marketshare is and has always been misleading because %97 of X86 pcs sold aren't solely going to the desktop.
Apple screwed the iMac2 because of price/performance. Hopefully they've learned after the Cube and iMac2. You can't sell a Mac based on being cool or cute. The "Power" should be back in the iMac line with the next model.
Q3 total for Apple's iMac was 60k. I doubt that 2 months of no iMac sales is going to hurt that bad.
You guys have been reading to many PC rags. They have your brains rewired to their silly logic. Apple is in business to make money. As long as they're turning a profit and remain debt free they are fine.
People tend to forget that we've been in a small recession that seems to be dissipating.
Spin it anyway you want apple has fallen to #9 computer maker, apples consumer desk tops sell in the same qty as its professional line when they should sell at least 10 consumer models for each pro one. Apple has no iMacs to sell and no updated 17" display. play your games the consumer is KING and the consumer has spoken. only Apple isnt listening but it sure is making walkmans isnt it.
OK, let's look at current data (2Q, 2004). According to IDC , Apple is the number 5 computer vendor in the U.S. Not so hot, right? Of course, in the U.S. they also are outselling the world-wide#4 and #5 manufacturers (Fujitsu/Siemens and Acer).
Now, check out the worldwide PC shipment data: note that almost 53% of PC shipments are from manufacturers smaller than the #5 vendor, meaning that over half the PCs shipped world-wide are from manufacturers with 3% market share or less. If I were Dell, that would really make me uncomfortable: in spite of my cut-margins-to-the-bone pricing, most purchasers are buying from smaller vendors, many of whom are "white-box" companies that just screw together the cheapest components they can find.
People who buy white-box PCs are buying commodities: they look at computers like TV sets or toasters and they just don't care about industrial design, O/S niceties, or included applications. Computers just aren't a high-involvement purchase for them.
Apple has made a conscious decision not to go after this market, the "we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume" market. Instead, they're pursuing customers who are involved with their computers, who care about design and applications and the intangible good feelings from using a well-thought-out product.
It seems like the consumer (world-wide) has indeed spoken: they're saying "computers aren't a big deal - just get me something that works and is dirt cheap." Given that market reality, building a high-involvement product like "walkmans" doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
You seem to forget what got Apple in trouble in the first place. High margins on computers and they were making profits. They lost market share and almost went out of business.
They need to sell more computers. Its quite obvious.
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
What the rest of people do for their computing needs is irrelevant as long as you can purchase the applications you need.
There is no spin. %3 marketshare is and has always been misleading because %97 of X86 pcs sold aren't solely going to the desktop.
Apple screwed the iMac2 because of price/performance. Hopefully they've learned after the Cube and iMac2. You can't sell a Mac based on being cool or cute. The "Power" should be back in the iMac line with the next model.
Q3 total for Apple's iMac was 60k. I doubt that 2 months of no iMac sales is going to hurt that bad.
You guys have been reading to many PC rags. They have your brains rewired to their silly logic. Apple is in business to make money. As long as they're turning a profit and remain debt free they are fine.
People tend to forget that we've been in a small recession that seems to be dissipating.
Comments
What is going to happen is an AIO followed by
http://www.misterbg.org/AppleProductCycle/
The haters offer their assessment. The forums are ablaze with vitriolic rage. Haters pan the device for being less powerful than a Cray X1 while zealots counter that it is both smaller and lighter than a Buick Regal. The virtual slap-fight goes on and on, until obscure technical nuances like, ?Will it play multiplexed Ogg Vorbis streams?? become matters of life and death.
I'll have my flame suit ready.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Yeah well Bozo has not only brought Apple back to financial health but took Pixar from a company peddling $170 3D tools(Typestry) to one of the most influential companies of today. Game recognize game. You wouldn't understand brilliance because you are not brilliant yourself.
...on to your regularly scheduled program.
I guess brilliant is taking your computer company from #1 to now #9 or hows this brilliant is running out of old stale G4 imacs when you have nothing to replace them with. yeah your right i aint brilliant
His record as a manager is somewhat checkered however. What he does best is not really management anyway.
monitor goes=goodbye computer
replace something simple like a battery=good luck
need a new interface like USB2=sorry
need a new graphics card=sorry
This is why all in ones dont sell like towers and seperate monitors. This simple little fact seems to slip by Jobs' brilliance. He has talents in other areas. Managing a business isnt one of them.
You average all the scores together and it is a C or D maybe. So do you as the teacher just give that grade and wash your hands of it? Or do you give an A because he provided the only truly inspired moment in the whole semester? Or do you give an F because so much potential was wasted?
I get the impression that the average consumer tends to do the first, and members of this board tend to the second or third depending.
Why can't they get it through their thick skulls that gamers are the largest market for computers and that an upgradeable video card and fast bus are the two primary factors in typical consumers' computer purchase decisions? Software? Operating system? Actually *doing something* with a computer? Jeez, everyone knows that Doom frame rates are the key differentiating factor for computer users, who -amazingly- are almost all male and under age 25. Word processors, browsers, e-mail programs, spreadsheets, "digital hub" applications? Those are for your grandparents - who cares how those work on a Mac!
Every junior high kid with a keyboard knows how to fix Apple. It never ceases to amaze how Apple execs have it so wrong while many AI contributors could fix Apple with their mousing hands tied behind their backs.
Yeah, Steve, time to head out to pasture.
</Sarcasm>
Oh somehow I don't think
1. Getting booted from the company you founded and creating NeXT which would then be sold to Apple for 400 million.
2. Investing heavily in Pixar when they were nobody and growing the business to todays present state
3. Taking over Apple computer, that had lost most of its talent and was blowing in the wind , and restoring it back to healthy finances
Qualifies as dumb luck. Like SJ or not the man has marketing skills and an eye for keeping good talent around. That and strategic planning a CEOs job people and Steve does that with the best of them. If you think you can do a better job create your own company and go do it.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Oh somehow I don't think
1. Getting booted from the company you founded and creating NeXT which would then be sold to Apple for 400 million.
2. Investing heavily in Pixar when they were nobody and growing the business to todays present state
3. Taking over Apple computer, that had lost most of its talent and was blowing in the wind , and restoring it back to healthy finances
Qualifies as dumb luck. Like SJ or not the man has marketing skills and an eye for keeping good talent around. That and strategic planning a CEOs job people and Steve does that with the best of them. If you think you can do a better job create your own company and go do it.
Just sell a fucking 17 inch monitor and inexpensive tower. It isnt goddamn rocket science for Christ sakes.
Nope it aint rocket science, it's about $US600, tons of competition & no profit margin
Heres some of my problems with all in ones:
monitor goes=goodbye computer
replace something simple like a battery=good luck
need a new interface like USB2=sorry
need a new graphics card=sorry
yeah i just struck No 1!! - my 1997 603e 250mhz Performa is now junk cos th monitors stuffing up grrr!! talk about wasteful...
& i've had No 2 -battery died in my 1995 603 75mhz Performa so th date's wrong & i can't be bothered opening it up to put a new $US15 one in grrr!! wot a hassle...
as for No 3 - i've had that on my G3 -grrr!! wot a - oh wait that isn't an all-in-one anyway [& th consumers didn't know they had USB1 on their PC motherboards till iMac 1 exploded th peripherals market & exposed th "need", at least there are alternatives like firewire now, not just ADB & PC serial...]
No 4 - perennial problem alrite - got it on my 1994 G4 1.2ghz iBook already - can't play "skycaptainetc" game cos it needs 64megs video ram (& 1.25ghz G4) grrr!! wot a fraud... outadate piece of hardware junk i knew there'd be something it couldn't do i really NEED
This is why all in ones dont sell like towers and seperate monitors.
No, they outsell nowadaze don't they, laptop sales over 50%?
and as for having no "outdated, underperforming" G4 iMacs on sale in an oversupplied, overcrowded market segment for wha? - a whole month or so (still in shops here) - surely that's doing potential buyers a favour? better a wait than a second-rate buy. & perhaps building a little anticipation will help nu iMac sales. & i don't see "headless" as a brilliant answer to fill th desktop gap between laptops & Powermac towers, certainly hope Apple has a great (new,clever,exciting) G5 machine that will grab a few newbies or undecideds - maybe even confirmed Mac users - & if 17" LCDs are still in vogue then have a model using them.
Aurora. You are wrong. Plain and simple. WRONG!
MM
Yeah they're doing something right.
Course that'd be the ipod.
Why didn't Steve just design his own chip. He's a loser and a fool.
Yup...with a Billion in net worth. If that's a fool and a loser then where do I sign up?
Apple needs a mini single cpu tower for consumers not more all in ones you cant get inside nor change anything. it serves them right they have no one to blame but Apple's suites and ties and turtlenecks.
Consumer don't get in their computers and add stuff. They pay people to do it if anything. The whole "I want upgrade my computer" is bunk. Less than half who can upgrade do. Apple realizes that being able to pull an iMac out the box and have the end user surfing the internet in 15 minutes is more important than the myth of upgradability.
The iMac is tuned for the average consumer. These people peope use their computers for a few years until they get too slow and then they replace them. If you want a monitor you can keep through multiple generations of computers then buy a Powerbook or a Powermac.
Originally posted by Dazaran
Less than 3% marketshare.
Yeah they're doing something right.
Course that'd be the ipod.
3% market pretty much sums it up doesnt it. you have the best OS on the planet and your hardware owns 3% of new sales. looks to me like that number indicates a hardware problem but the zealots say NO NO more G4 more all in one we want to be the only one on the planet with a Mac.
There is no spin. %3 marketshare is and has always been misleading because %97 of X86 pcs sold aren't solely going to the desktop.
Apple screwed the iMac2 because of price/performance. Hopefully they've learned after the Cube and iMac2. You can't sell a Mac based on being cool or cute. The "Power" should be back in the iMac line with the next model.
Q3 total for Apple's iMac was 60k. I doubt that 2 months of no iMac sales is going to hurt that bad.
You guys have been reading to many PC rags. They have your brains rewired to their silly logic. Apple is in business to make money. As long as they're turning a profit and remain debt free they are fine.
People tend to forget that we've been in a small recession that seems to be dissipating.
Originally posted by Aurora
Spin it anyway you want apple has fallen to #9 computer maker, apples consumer desk tops sell in the same qty as its professional line when they should sell at least 10 consumer models for each pro one. Apple has no iMacs to sell and no updated 17" display. play your games the consumer is KING and the consumer has spoken. only Apple isnt listening but it sure is making walkmans isnt it.
OK, let's look at current data (2Q, 2004). According to IDC , Apple is the number 5 computer vendor in the U.S. Not so hot, right? Of course, in the U.S. they also are outselling the world-wide #4 and #5 manufacturers (Fujitsu/Siemens and Acer).
Now, check out the worldwide PC shipment data: note that almost 53% of PC shipments are from manufacturers smaller than the #5 vendor, meaning that over half the PCs shipped world-wide are from manufacturers with 3% market share or less. If I were Dell, that would really make me uncomfortable: in spite of my cut-margins-to-the-bone pricing, most purchasers are buying from smaller vendors, many of whom are "white-box" companies that just screw together the cheapest components they can find.
People who buy white-box PCs are buying commodities: they look at computers like TV sets or toasters and they just don't care about industrial design, O/S niceties, or included applications. Computers just aren't a high-involvement purchase for them.
Apple has made a conscious decision not to go after this market, the "we lose money on every sale but make it up in volume" market. Instead, they're pursuing customers who are involved with their computers, who care about design and applications and the intangible good feelings from using a well-thought-out product.
It seems like the consumer (world-wide) has indeed spoken: they're saying "computers aren't a big deal - just get me something that works and is dirt cheap." Given that market reality, building a high-involvement product like "walkmans" doesn't seem like such a bad idea.
They need to sell more computers. Its quite obvious.
Originally posted by hmurchison
What the rest of people do for their computing needs is irrelevant as long as you can purchase the applications you need.
There is no spin. %3 marketshare is and has always been misleading because %97 of X86 pcs sold aren't solely going to the desktop.
Apple screwed the iMac2 because of price/performance. Hopefully they've learned after the Cube and iMac2. You can't sell a Mac based on being cool or cute. The "Power" should be back in the iMac line with the next model.
Q3 total for Apple's iMac was 60k. I doubt that 2 months of no iMac sales is going to hurt that bad.
You guys have been reading to many PC rags. They have your brains rewired to their silly logic. Apple is in business to make money. As long as they're turning a profit and remain debt free they are fine.
People tend to forget that we've been in a small recession that seems to be dissipating.