Infidelity.
What are your views?
I ask this because a friend of mine and I where talking today and I found out about an infidelity. While I have never partaken of this forbidden fruit I know first hand how painful it is and how long one person can hate another person (going on 10 years now, that's a lot of hate). So why do people do it? Why not simply split up and hump all you want without the guilty conscience?
Any opinions? Just curious.
I ask this because a friend of mine and I where talking today and I found out about an infidelity. While I have never partaken of this forbidden fruit I know first hand how painful it is and how long one person can hate another person (going on 10 years now, that's a lot of hate). So why do people do it? Why not simply split up and hump all you want without the guilty conscience?
Any opinions? Just curious.
Comments
I think though, that we are crazy lusty people, and are weak as well . . . sometimes things are incredibly boring and there seems to be no spark left. When things are like that the thrill of meeting someone new, even if it is not about being serious, can promise a new feeling of awakening.
I think that if a couple is committed to monogamy they should talk about the possibility of infidelity, but more importantly, each person in the couple should realize in advance that love relationships go through all sorts of dead-times, and long stretches of seeming stasis, and that the apparent freshness of a fling would, in rreality, create much more havoc and torment than one can imagine . . . if your relationship is in the midst of a dry-season it might seem harmless or even worthy but it would most likely end in torment or undue complications and with all parties involved being hurt.
Sometimes though, that is exactly what people want: they want to hurt: the unconscious willful creation of misery is one of the worst psychological aspects of humanity. The lure of deeply felt suffering can be a powerful replacement for an otherwise seemingly dull reality . . . . but what most willful self-destruction really seeks is distraction from thought and the notion of being an animal . . . (Far-fetched?) Sometimes relationships become very much like animal husbandry: we give in completely to the exigencies of the human animal demands of Breeding: we feel that we are the puppets of species-detirminism . . . this can be felt deeply as a form of death . . . and I mean that in all senses of the word: -Death of the Egoic image:and the loss of control of our fantasy-Ego world: nothing can seem like it is farther than the demands of being an animal (being flesh, that dies and procreates and is dragged around by the urge to 'family') than the dramatics of seemingly real, romantic disasters . . .the pain feels 'Real" (and it is) and sometimes that constructed but real pain is what one wants . . . to replace the darker pain of the death implied by animal existence -not such a dramatic and obvious pain, and far more encompassing.
What I'm talking about here is a form of nuerosis -but I have known people that suffered from variations of it: every relationship that they would have would have exactly the same form of misery and anguish, it was something to talk about with hatred and pain, but seemed better than the far subtler and persistent truth.
So, what am I saying? I guess that there are lots of reasons that people are unfaithful: I would recommend against it, I would recommend that if you ever feel like doing it that you truly examine your own heart and what you really want and what you really love,
but,
if it happens to you, if you are the victim of it, I would recommend that you consider what a dark and miserable affair the human mind is; what a terrible twisted mess of contradicting urges, emotions and motivations and I would strive to forgive.
Originally posted by bunge
Infidelity does not exist.
Explain this perplexing idea.
Originally posted by faust9
Explain this perplexing idea.
Lots of beer.
Originally posted by pfflam
Sometimes though, that is exactly what people want: they want to hurt: the unconscious willful creation of misery is one of the worst psychological aspects of humanity. The lure of deeply felt suffering can be a powerful replacement for an otherwise seemingly dull reality . . . . but what most willful self-destruction really seeks is distraction from thought and the notion of being an animal . . . (Far-fetched?) Sometimes relationships become very much like animal husbandry: we give in completely to the exigencies of the human animal demands of Breeding: we feel that we are the puppets of species-detirminism . . . this can be felt deeply as a form of death . . . and I mean that in all senses of the word: -Death of the Egoic image:and the loss of control of our fantasy-Ego world: nothing can seem like it is farther than the demands of being an animal (being flesh, that dies and procreates and is dragged around by the urge to 'family') than the dramatics of seemingly real, romantic disasters . . .the pain feels 'Real" (and it is) and sometimes that constructed but real pain is what one wants . . . to replace the darker pain of the death implied by animal existence -not such a dramatic and obvious pain, and far more encompassing.
Nice post pfflam. I can see you've thought a lot about infidelity.
Everyone is tempted. My secretary is absolutely luscious and sexy and has big boobs and flirts with me all the time, but I resist.
Seriously, I've had girlfriends cheat on me. I don't see how anyone who's been through it could do it to another person.
1) lack of love and respect.
2) people grow out of loving each other
3) or they never loved really each other
4) or "there is someone other available" = some people simply "have to" have 'parallel relationships' ... to boost their ego? only because they have the chance? or because they are (wo)men?
i'm sure there are more reasons ...
but they are all lack of love. if you love someone you don't have parallel stuff going on.
I've been splitting up with my girlfriend of two years. We've been off and on for five sometimes very difficult months. I've also been away for a few weeks, working in Southern Europe. During this time away - actually, less than two weeks ago - I met someone... spectacular. She was (is) beautiful, very funny, very talented, and very, very nice. I fell in love with this woman within, I suppose, seven minutes of seeing and hearing her speak.
In one of the most beautiful, isolated places in Europe, in the most romantic circumstances conceivable (the moon a haze because of a dust storm in the Sahara last week, a three-piece group of Mozambican master percussionists, a walk through the grounds of a ruined 19th century manor house, a fire, heat) she said to me "Shall we fall down?" I said "yes." She made to kiss me and I refused her. Because I have a girlfriend.
The next night, in similar circumstances, we actually kissed. But I'd go no further because I have a girlfriend. She told me that she liked me very much and I told her that I liked her very much, but I Had a Girlfriend and I had to go home and find out what was happening.
Stupid. Fucking. Dickhead.
Now I'm back in London. Two days ago I split up with my girlfriend, at last. Finally. And: I'm in love with someone (someone, I admit, I barely know and who I met in exceptional circumstances that'll be impossible to reproduce) who lives in southern Spain. Hello, everyone, I'm single. I was seriously thinking about moving abroad (this is clearly mad in the cool light of day but it felt pretty real at the time.) This girl's not responding to my emails and I haven't got the guts to call her because, it turns out, she was really into me and... I've clearly hurt her.
I wish I'd been unfaithful. I should have been unfaithful. I was thinking about "splitting up for the right reasons" and "I owe it to my girlfriend not to end it like this", but you know what? That's rubbish and crap and shite. I could be with someone who really blew my head off, but I'm not, because I wasn't brave enough to break the rules.
Pfflam, no truer words could be said; however, I can't forgive for some reason--personal failing. I don't know once I feel someone has betrayed my trust I hold it against them for some long time. Maybe I'll eventually forgive the girl who cheated on me so many years ago but I don't foresee that happening anytime soon.
So, is it wrong to hate someone for so long like this? I ask because my friend's story brought all of this bottled hate to the surface for me. I stopped thinking about her conscientiously a long time ago, but the feeling are still there and affect my current relationship. I'm "cold"--or so I'm told-- which I attribute to that first infidelity. Why open myself up for more pain; moreover, how does one forgive an act like this?
Again, Hassan hope things work out for the best with you.
[edit]spelling as usual.
Originally posted by faust9
Again, Hassan hope things work out for the best with you.
Yeah. The more I think about it, the more it looks like I was just seeing things from a different perspective, being away for so long and all, and this curious affair was sort of conjured by all sorts of motives that would need a pfflam to explain in order for me to finally be OK with finishing my finished relationship.
I'm actually pretty cool, as it happens, but life really can be weird.
Infidelity still sucks, by the way.
Originally posted by faust9
So, is it wrong to hate someone for so long like this? I ask because my friend's story brought all of this bottled hate to the surface for me. I stopped thinking about her conscientiously a long time ago, but the feeling are still there and affect my current relationship. I'm "cold"--or so I'm told-- which I attribute to that first infidelity. Why open myself up for more pain; moreover, how does one forgive an act like this?
I sort of know what you're talking about here. Thing is, the pain's all sort of part of the deal. That is, it's the risk you've got to take. Same for everyone.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I met someone... spectacular. She was (is) beautiful, very funny, very talented, and very, very nice. I fell in love with this woman within, I suppose, seven minutes of seeing and hearing her speak.
In one of the most beautiful, isolated places in Europe, in the most romantic circumstances conceivable (the moon a haze because of a dust storm in the Sahara last week, a three-piece group of Mozambican master percussionists, a walk through the grounds of a ruined 19th century manor house, a fire, heat) she said to me "Shall we fall down?" I said "yes." She made to kiss me and I refused her. Because I have a girlfriend.
The next night, in similar circumstances, we actually kissed. But I'd go no further because I have a girlfriend. She told me that she liked me very much and I told her that I liked her very much, but I Had a Girlfriend and I had to go home and find out what was happening.
.
Sheesh . . . I think I just fell in love with her too !
But seriously, nothing like vacationing in a beautiful exotic and stress free location to make someone seem like they are the freedom-feeling that comes from traveling: everybody seems special when abroad . . .
But maybe she really was special
My opinion is that it's all to yourself. If you do it, accept the consequences and don't stop at my doorstep to cry about things when the other one does find out....(amazing how many ppl are sorry for things they have done after the other significant figured it all out....)
If and when tempted...you make a choice there and then. Stay away from that person if it might influence the relationship you allready have and obviously wish to keep. Funny how you sometimes hear that it 'happened' to them. It doesn't just happen, there are choices that have been made and actions that followed....
Furthermore. It shows no respect at all to do this to your wife/husband. So, if you don't respect the otherone anyway, why not start the divorce and after all that, do whatever.
Hassan, a shame that it happened to you, who knows what my happen in the future. And reading your message, it good be quite something
Originally posted by sparhawk
i am in the navy and see it all around me. It's easy when you are abroad, who's gonna tell? right? in the end, the women at home will always find out, there are many things that will give infidelity away.
My opinion is that it's all to yourself. If you do it, accept the consequences and don't stop at my doorstep to cry about things when the other one does find out....(amazing how many ppl are sorry for things they have done after the other significant figured it all out....)
If and when tempted...you make a choice there and then. Stay away from that person if it might influence the relationship you already have and obviously wish to keep. Funny how you sometimes hear that it 'happened' to them. It doesn't just happen, there are choices that have been made and actions that followed....
Furthermore. It shows no respect at all to do this to your wife/husband. So, if you don't respect the other-one anyway, why not start the divorce and after all that, do whatever.
Hassan, a shame that it happened to you, who knows what my happen in the future. And reading your message, it good be quite something
We had a saying--"What happens in the realm of the golden dragon stays in the realm of the golden dragon." I saw more guys screw around on their wives in Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc, than anywhere else. I guess the lure of cheap tail with a pretty girl was too much for a lot of guys.
--The Realm of the Golden Dragon is west of the international date line for non-salor types.
Originally posted by sparhawk
i am in the navy and see it all around me. It's easy when you are abroad, who's gonna tell? right? in the end, the women at home will always find out, there are many things that will give infidelity away.
My opinion is that it's all to yourself. If you do it, accept the consequences and don't stop at my doorstep to cry about things when the other one does find out....(amazing how many ppl are sorry for things they have done after the other significant figured it all out....)
If and when tempted...you make a choice there and then. Stay away from that person if it might influence the relationship you allready have and obviously wish to keep. Funny how you sometimes hear that it 'happened' to them. It doesn't just happen, there are choices that have been made and actions that followed....
Furthermore. It shows no respect at all to do this to your wife/husband. So, if you don't respect the otherone anyway, why not start the divorce and after all that, do whatever.
Hassan, a shame that it happened to you, who knows what my happen in the future. And reading your message, it good be quite something
yep
So. Check this out. This is perfect.
While I'm at my ex-girlfriend's place putting 128 more megs of RAM into her Rev A Bondi Blue iMac running the latest version of Panther (woman,now I bet you're sorry I've gone
Fuck it, let's go back to mine to get my copy of Panther and we'll try and either boot off the CD or reinstall and zero.
She drives me back to mine, I pick up my messages and discover, finally, this girl I describe in mooning terms above has got my letter (a CD, and I am a genius at long-distance seduction, trust me) and found a way of checking her email. And what does she say? While I'm being driven back to my ex-girlfriend's, I hear (I paraphrase) - 'When are you coming back? Are you coming back to where we were? Or can you come to the city where I live?' Two messages, actually. Some other stuff that makes me laugh. Oh - and the last thing she says is "Miss you."
Well blow me down thrice.
And we can't use the CD at my ex's because it's a DVD and her iMac doesn't know what to make of it.
I swear on the eternal souls, if such things exist, of my parents and my brothers that this is a true and accurate record of the events that occurred earlier tonight.
Oh- now I have to phone her. Help.
I have a friend of mine who hadn't "done it" with his wife for 7 years. They were married for 5
It's not all so straight forward. I'm don't know if it's about ego or lust or comfort or whatever.
Originally posted by Scott
I find it interesting how my attitude toward this subject has changed over my ten years of marriage and birth of my kid.
I have a friend of mine who hadn't "done it" with his wife for 7 years. They were married for 5
It's not all so straight forward. I'm don't know if it's about ego or lust or comfort or whatever.
Might have something to do with ropes and electricity.
(Just a guess.