It doesn't matter that Apple might choose a slightly different method in how to access DB gadgets/widgets. It's the fact they have taken a modern, popular idea, and bolted it onto a backend delivery system in which the whole concept, the modern day variety of widgets to impart information via garish looking mini-programs, just exudes' stolen from here <insert company>.
The fact is so blatantly obvious. Daringfireball's article just misses the entire point. An apologist opinion piece, that refuses to accept that had other companies not brought about the popularity of such devices, and in how they look, then would Apple be doing it themselves? Severely doubt it.
Arguing about 'how' one views these mini-programs is just semantics in the end; the visual, and basic premis of why they exist is what appears to have influenced Apple. Look at it this way. MS have had expose type technology for years, the 'show desktop' button does something pretty similar to one of Apple's expose functions. Now, by some of the views on DB, it seems like you would agree then, that Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
It's not a bad thing for them to do, but let's give credit where it's due.
Konsposé or whatever the hell it's called was introduced well after Arlo Rose was aware of Dashboard
I asked Arlo about this a while ago:
Quote:
Q: Was Konspose a result of leaked information about Apple's Expose-like feature of Dashboard?
A: No, Konsposé was a "Heads Up Display" feature we'd been planning to add since 1.0. It was originally slated to be the way we handled preferences in 2.0 and we'd started work on it a couple of months ago. When we found out Dashboard was going to be announced at WWDC we tried to get a release out the door ASAP in the event Dashboard was a much larger threat, or if it was an iApp they were going to be giving away at WWDC so that we could cleanly wrap up Mac development. Obviously nothing so drastic happened, but we wanted to make sure that if it did, we had something we were proud of out the door.
It's not a bad thing for them to do, but let's give credit where it's due.
Uh lets not and say we did. I'm sorry your post doesn't hold up to Gruber's excellent breakdown of the issue. Arlo Rose didn't create the concept of widgets. End of story. Thanks for playing bye-bye.
Quote:
Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
you...are ...on ...crack.
Trying hitting the Windows "Desktop" button to drag and drop punchy. Riiiiight semantics huh?
Konfabulator's problem is that it's not a very original product. All they did was "update" Apple's original implementation, and sassied it up with Apple's "look"
They were lucky enough that Dashboard wasn't a priority while Apple was developing their new OS, and were able to release it claiming it was some fantastic idea they came up with.
Uh lets not and say we did. I'm sorry your post doesn't hold up to Gruber's excellent breakdown of the issue. Arlo Rose didn't create the concept of widgets. End of story. Thanks for playing bye-bye.
Um, no, DF's opinion piece is still missing the point. I never said Konfab invented widgets, my whole stance has been that credit should go where it deserves, to konfab and desktop X.. Especially when it comes to this exact type of functionality.
Quote:
you...are ...on ...crack.
Trying hitting the Windows "Desktop" button to drag and drop punchy. Riiiiight semantics huh?
You utterly failed to see my point, in fact, you just proved it! lololol.
If you can't make the connection between MS' show desktop button and Expose; then the same argument applied to konfab. and Apple's pre-historic invention is also blown out the water.
That forces Apple into a pretty tight box. Konfabulator, Dashboard and DesktopX all do similar things but the method in which they all traverse "A to B" is slightly different.
It seems to me that the "goal" of these apps is to allow quick access to min-apps.
DTX and Dashboard prefer to embedd the apps into the desktop.
Dashboard prefers to conjure up he widgets with an "F key"
The end result is same the the methodology is different enough for some people to perceive a difference.
I'm sure Arlo will be fine. Part of the appeal of Konfabulator is to show off the embedded files. It's desktop ornamentation. Dashboard doesn't offer that same appeal.
it seems like you would agree then, that Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
I see your point now! It's like when OSX didn't have a volume slider in the top bar, and then someone came out with a hack so you could have it. And then Apple VICIOUSLY stole his idea and didn't give the poor chap ANY credit at all. God, that made me so mad.
Konfabulator's problem is that it's not a very original product. All they did was "update" Apple's original implementation, and sassied it up with Apple's "look"
They were lucky enough that Dashboard wasn't a priority while Apple was developing their new OS, and were able to release it claiming it was some fantastic idea they came up with.
I can't decide if you're being sarcastic, or if you are actually insane.
I can't decide if you're being sarcastic, or if you are actually insane.
Sounds like you're suggesting that Konfabulator is itself an original idea. To me it's a case of the Konfab guys saying something like "Hey, we copied Desktop X first, Apple shouldn't be allowed to do the same even when they had a similar idea years ago with Desk Accessories". I feel bad for them sure, but I don't think Apple did anything wrong here.
...taken from Mac OS X in order to fit in with Aqua (designed by Apple)
Quote:
Originally posted by sanity assassin
and basic premis of why they exist
...taken from Desk Accessories, originally present in the 1984 original Macintosh (designed by Apple)
I'll be interested to see your response to this. Just to clarify, I would assert that Desk Accessories + Aqua = Dashboard (or Konfabulator or Desktop X).
If you really want to "give credit where it's due", either give it to Apple by the above argument, or give it to the creators of Desktop X by your own argument - NOT to Perry and Arlo.
Comments
The fact is so blatantly obvious. Daringfireball's article just misses the entire point. An apologist opinion piece, that refuses to accept that had other companies not brought about the popularity of such devices, and in how they look, then would Apple be doing it themselves? Severely doubt it.
Arguing about 'how' one views these mini-programs is just semantics in the end; the visual, and basic premis of why they exist is what appears to have influenced Apple. Look at it this way. MS have had expose type technology for years, the 'show desktop' button does something pretty similar to one of Apple's expose functions. Now, by some of the views on DB, it seems like you would agree then, that Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
It's not a bad thing for them to do, but let's give credit where it's due.
Konsposé or whatever the hell it's called was introduced well after Arlo Rose was aware of Dashboard
I asked Arlo about this a while ago:
Q: Was Konspose a result of leaked information about Apple's Expose-like feature of Dashboard?
A: No, Konsposé was a "Heads Up Display" feature we'd been planning to add since 1.0. It was originally slated to be the way we handled preferences in 2.0 and we'd started work on it a couple of months ago. When we found out Dashboard was going to be announced at WWDC we tried to get a release out the door ASAP in the event Dashboard was a much larger threat, or if it was an iApp they were going to be giving away at WWDC so that we could cleanly wrap up Mac development. Obviously nothing so drastic happened, but we wanted to make sure that if it did, we had something we were proud of out the door.
It's not a bad thing for them to do, but let's give credit where it's due.
Uh lets not and say we did. I'm sorry your post doesn't hold up to Gruber's excellent breakdown of the issue. Arlo Rose didn't create the concept of widgets. End of story. Thanks for playing bye-bye.
Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
Trying hitting the Windows "Desktop" button to drag and drop punchy. Riiiiight semantics huh?
They were lucky enough that Dashboard wasn't a priority while Apple was developing their new OS, and were able to release it claiming it was some fantastic idea they came up with.
Their arguement is baseless.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Uh lets not and say we did. I'm sorry your post doesn't hold up to Gruber's excellent breakdown of the issue. Arlo Rose didn't create the concept of widgets. End of story. Thanks for playing bye-bye.
Um, no, DF's opinion piece is still missing the point. I never said Konfab invented widgets, my whole stance has been that credit should go where it deserves, to konfab and desktop X.. Especially when it comes to this exact type of functionality.
Quote:
Trying hitting the Windows "Desktop" button to drag and drop punchy. Riiiiight semantics huh?
You utterly failed to see my point, in fact, you just proved it! lololol.
If you can't make the connection between MS' show desktop button and Expose; then the same argument applied to konfab. and Apple's pre-historic invention is also blown out the water.
On crack, indeed.
That forces Apple into a pretty tight box. Konfabulator, Dashboard and DesktopX all do similar things but the method in which they all traverse "A to B" is slightly different.
It seems to me that the "goal" of these apps is to allow quick access to min-apps.
DTX and Dashboard prefer to embedd the apps into the desktop.
Dashboard prefers to conjure up he widgets with an "F key"
The end result is same the the methodology is different enough for some people to perceive a difference.
I'm sure Arlo will be fine. Part of the appeal of Konfabulator is to show off the embedded files. It's desktop ornamentation. Dashboard doesn't offer that same appeal.
Originally posted by sanity assassin
it seems like you would agree then, that Apple have copied the MS idea, since it's basically the same principle, but MS came up with it long ago.
I see your point now! It's like when OSX didn't have a volume slider in the top bar, and then someone came out with a hack so you could have it. And then Apple VICIOUSLY stole his idea and didn't give the poor chap ANY credit at all. God, that made me so mad.
Konfabulator's problem is that it's not a very original product. All they did was "update" Apple's original implementation, and sassied it up with Apple's "look"
They were lucky enough that Dashboard wasn't a priority while Apple was developing their new OS, and were able to release it claiming it was some fantastic idea they came up with.
I can't decide if you're being sarcastic, or if you are actually insane.
Originally posted by John
I can't decide if you're being sarcastic, or if you are actually insane.
Sounds like you're suggesting that Konfabulator is itself an original idea. To me it's a case of the Konfab guys saying something like "Hey, we copied Desktop X first, Apple shouldn't be allowed to do the same even when they had a similar idea years ago with Desk Accessories". I feel bad for them sure, but I don't think Apple did anything wrong here.
Originally posted by sanity assassin
the visual,
...taken from Mac OS X in order to fit in with Aqua (designed by Apple)
Originally posted by sanity assassin
and basic premis of why they exist
...taken from Desk Accessories, originally present in the 1984 original Macintosh (designed by Apple)
I'll be interested to see your response to this. Just to clarify, I would assert that Desk Accessories + Aqua = Dashboard (or Konfabulator or Desktop X).
If you really want to "give credit where it's due", either give it to Apple by the above argument, or give it to the creators of Desktop X by your own argument - NOT to Perry and Arlo.